Ukrainian pilot shot down Malaysian Boeing MH17, secret witness says. 12/23/2014

[Stratford57]

So far Russians are the only ones who are trying to push MH-17 crash investigation. Holland and Britain, who are designated to investigate it, are keeping suspiciously silence. Malaysia, who’s Boeing was shot, is not even allowed to participate in investigation, may be because it has published some results of its own in in July:
MH17 Pockmarks look like from very very heavy machine gun fire says first OSCE monitor on-scene New Straits Times
At the time of crash there was a group of American satellites above the place of the catastrophe, which has taped the full picture of the Boeing crash. However that information has not been provided to the public probably because it doesn’t support what the narrative the USA, EU and Ukraine have been telling.
At the end of his interview the secret witness said: “I would recommend to analyze all the reports of deaths/whereabouts of all the Ukrainian professional fighter pilots since July, 17. More likely such kind of person would be eliminated by now.” Russia is hoping ICAO (International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) would be interested to use the new witnesses’ data in their investigation.

For those who don’t remember I’d like to remind: Ukraine has already had experience in shooting a civilian plane and denying it before, in 2001. The plane was flying from Israel to Russia.

A secret witness claims that it was a Ukrainian Su-25 aircraft that downed the Malaysian Boeing, flight MH-17, near Donetsk, in the summer of 2014. The Komsomolskaya Pravda newspaper, whose journalists interviewed the unnamed witness, said that on July 17, two Ukrainian military aircraft were shot down in the war zone, and the pilot of the third fighter jet fired an air-to-air missile into the Malaysian Boeing.

(The witness is not ready to announce his name to public yet because he has relatives in Ukraine and fears for their lives and safety. As a non-proud resident of Ukraine I can confirm: he has very good reasons for that. There truly are a lot of people killed, kidnapped and thrown to prison, just because they didn’t share same point of view with official Kiev. And as a rule local police even refuses to investigate those cases.)

Below is the interview that the man gave to the Komsomolskaya Pravda newspaper.

Su-25 fighter jet returned without missiles



Ukrainian pilot shot down Malaysian Boeing MH17 secret witness says - English pravda.ru

 

[Syriusly]

So far Russians are the only ones who are trying to push MH-17 crash investigation. Holland and Britain, who are designated to investigate it, are keeping suspiciously silence. Malaysia, who’s Boeing was shot, is not even allowed to participate in investigation, may be because it has published some results of its own in in July:
MH17 Pockmarks look like from very very heavy machine gun fire says first OSCE monitor on-scene New Straits Times
At the time of crash there was a group of American satellites above the place of the catastrophe, which has taped the full picture of the Boeing crash. However that information has not been provided to the public probably because it doesn’t support what the narrative the USA, EU and Ukraine have been telling.
At the end of his interview the secret witness said: “I would recommend to analyze all the reports of deaths/whereabouts of all the Ukrainian professional fighter pilots since July, 17. More likely such kind of person would be eliminated by now.” Russia is hoping ICAO (International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) would be interested to use the new witnesses’ data in their investigation.

For those who don’t remember I’d like to remind: Ukraine has already had experience in shooting a civilian plane and denying it before, in 2001. The plane was flying from Israel to Russia.

A secret witness claims that it was a Ukrainian Su-25 aircraft that downed the Malaysian Boeing, flight MH-17, near Donetsk, in the summer of 2014. The Komsomolskaya Pravda newspaper, whose journalists interviewed the unnamed witness, said that on July 17, two Ukrainian military aircraft were shot down in the war zone, and the pilot of the third fighter jet fired an air-to-air missile into the Malaysian Boeing.

(The witness is not ready to announce his name to public yet because he has relatives in Ukraine and fears for their lives and safety. As a non-proud resident of Ukraine I can confirm: he has very good reasons for that. There truly are a lot of people killed, kidnapped and thrown to prison, just because they didn’t share same point of view with official Kiev. And as a rule local police even refuses to investigate those cases.)

Below is the interview that the man gave to the Komsomolskaya Pravda newspaper.

Su-25 fighter jet returned without missiles

"Where were you July 17, 2014, the day when the Malaysian Boeing was shot down?"

"I was on the territory of Ukraine in Dnepropetrovsk, in Aviatorskoe village. There's a common airport there. Fighters and helicopters were based there. The planes would regular go on sorties, Su-25 fighter jets would bomb Donetsk and Luhansk."

"Did the planes fly operationally every day?"

"They did, every day."

"Why do you suggest that these planes could be related to the crash of the Boeing?"

"For several reasons. Out of eight planes that were based there, only two were outfitted with air-to-air missiles. The missiles were mounted on those two planes."

"Why? Were there battles in the air?"

"No, the missiles were mounted on the aircraft to cover them up in the air, just in case. Basically, the planes were armed with ammunition for ground operations, such as unguided missiles and bombs."

"Tell us about July 17th."

"The planes were flying regularly that day. They were flying the whole day, since early morning. In the afternoon, about an hour before the Boeing was shot down, three strike fighters took off for a mission. I do not remember the time exactly. One of the aircraft was equipped with such missiles. It was a Su-25."

"Did you personally see that?"

"Yes, I did."

"Where was you observation point?"

"On the territory. I won't say specifically."

"Did you have a possibility to see what was being suspended to the pylons of the aircraft? Could you confuse between air-to-air and ground-to-air missiles?"

"No, I could not mix them up. They vary in size, fin assembly, coloration and the guiding head. It is very easy to identify them. In general, after a while, only one plane returned, two others were shot down, somewhere in the east of Ukraine, so I was told. One plane returned, on which those missiles were suspended."

"Did it return without the missiles?"

"Without missiles. The pilot was very scared."

"Are you familiar with that pilot, have you ever seen him?"

"Yes."

"Can you say what his name is?"

"His last name is Voloshin."

"Was he alone in the plane?'

"Yes, he was. The aircraft is designed for one person."

"Do you know his name?"

"Vladislav, I think. I can not say for sure. He's a captain."

The plane was at the wrong place at the wrong time

"So Captain Voloshin returned. Next?"

"He returned without ammunition."

"The missiles were gone?"

"Yes."

"So the plane returned from a mission, you were not aware about the crash of the Boeing yet, but you were somehow surprised with the absence of air-to-air missiles. How come?"

"Those missiles are not included in the basic ammunition. They can be suspended on a plane following a special order. As a rule, they tried not to fly aircraft with those missiles, because one can not move such missiles in the air just like that. It's possible to hang only two such missiles on this plane. They have never been used before. They had been decommissioned. However, a week before the crash of the Boeing, the use of those missiles was urgently extended. The missiles had not been used for many years."

"Why?"

"Their resource expired. They are of the Soviet production."

Ukrainian pilot shot down the Malaysian Boeing

"Did they hang them on the plane that day?"

"They were all the time with those missiles."

"But they did not fly?"

"They tried not to, as every flight reduces resource. Yet, the plane took off that day."

"And it returned without them?"

"Yes. As long as I know the pilot a little ... it is quite possible that when two aircraft were shot down before his eyes, he simply showed a frightened, inadequate reaction. He could launch the missiles at the Boeing out of fright or to revenge. Maybe, he took it for some other combat aircraft."

"Were they the missiles with homing heads?"

"Yes."

"Do they search for the target themselves?"

"No. It is the pilot who sets the target. Then he launches a missile, and it flies to the target."

"What else do you remember from that day? What did the pilot say?"

"The phrase that he said when he was taken off the plane: "Wrong plane." And in the evening, there was a phrase that he said answering a question from another pilot, who asked Voloshin: "What happened to the plane?" To which he replied: "The plane was in the wrong place at the wrong times."

"Was the pilot serving there for long? How old is he?"

"Voloshin is about 30 years. His unit is based in Nikolaev. They were sent to Dnepropetrovsk. Before that, he had been to Chuguev, near Kharkov. They were bombing Donetsk and Luhansk during all that time. And, according to a serviceman from the unit in Nikolaev, they still continue to do it."

Ukraine stated that on the day of the disaster there were no sorties made

"Did the pilots have a good combat experience?"

"Those who were there they were experienced. The Nikolaev unit was the best unit in Ukraine in 2013, I think."

"Did Pilots try to discuss the story of the Boeing?"

"All attempts to discuss it would be immediately suppressed. The pilots, they would interact with each other, and they were so ... proud."

"What happened to this pilot, Captain Voloshin, after they learned about the Boeing?"

'They continued the sorties. The pilots were the same."

"Let's try to simulate events. How could they develop? Three aircraft flew on a combat mission. They found themselves in the zone, in which the passenger Boeing was flying. Two aircraft were shot down. Captain Voloshin got nervous and scared, and perhaps he took the Boeing for a combat aircraft?"

"Maybe. The distance was large, so he could not see what kind of plane it was exactly."

"From what distance can those missiles be launched?"

"From about 3-5 km, they can set a target."

"What about the speed difference between a combat aircraft and a Boeing?

"It doesn't matter: a missile has a pretty good speed. A plane can - at its maximum altitude of 7,000 meters - easy fix the target. The flight range of the missile is more than 10 kilometers."

"At what distance does this missile explode? Can it hit a target and then explode?

"It can, depending on the modification. It can literally fly into the body and it can also explode at a distance of 500 meters."

"We worked at the crash site of the Boeing and noticed that fragments hit the body of the aircraft шт a very concentrated way. It looked like it exploded just two meters away from the Boeing."

"There is such a missile, it explodes like shrapnel."

"Ukraine stated that they had no sorties that day. We checked various sources on the downed aircraft. Ukraine denies that its warplanes were flying that day."

"I know about it. Ukraine also said that those two aircraft were shot down on December 16, not on December 17. They repeatedly changed the date. But in fact, sorties would be conducted daily. I saw it myself. There were sorties made even during the time of the truce, however, less often."

"What weapons were there on the aircraft at your airport? Were phosphorous bombs used or incendiary mixtures? The Ukrainian artillery was using them actively on the ground."

"I did not see phosphorous bombs. They used volume-detonating bombs, though."

"Are they banned?"

"Yes, they are. The bomb was designed for Afghanistan. It was banned under some convention, I do not remember exactly which one. The bomb scorches everything out."

"Were they mounted on aircraft and then used in combat action?"

"Yes. There were also banned cluster bombs. An aviation cluster bomb, depending on the size, can strike very large targets. To completely destroy a stadium, one bomb is enough."

"Why were they using such weapons?"

"They were following orders. Whose orders exactly remains unclear."

"What the main purpose of such weapons - intimidation?"

"No - maximum destruction of manpower."

"Why did you go to Russia ad decided to tell us about it? You're not the only witness!"

"The Security Service of Ukraine and the National Guard of Ukraine intimidated all. People can be beaten for every careless word, or jailed for any insignificant suspicion of being sympathetic to Russia or to the militia. I was against the "anti-terrorist operation" from the start. I do not agree with the policy of the Ukrainian administration. A civil war is a wrong way to go. Killing your own people is not normal. I do not want to stay in Ukraine to be involved in all that."

Ukrainian pilot shot down Malaysian Boeing MH17 secret witness says - English pravda.ru

So to recap:

A Russian owned and controlled newspaper claims that a 'secret witness' implicates Ukraine.

Well no chance of a conflict of interest there.....Pravda after all means 'truth'

 

[Stratford57]

So to recap:

A Russian owned and controlled newspaper claims that a 'secret witness' implicates Ukraine.

Well no chance of a conflict of interest there.....Pravda after all means 'truth'

I don't see any country including US, whose president told all the world about having the pictures of tragedy, willing or trying to facilitate MH-17 crash investigation. I see no other countries besides Russia seeking the truth in this investigation. And that also explains why that Ukrainian went to Russia to tell his story.
Malaysian source also confirms the point:
MH17 Pockmarks look like from very very heavy machine gun fire says first OSCE monitor on-scene New Straits Times

 

[Tom Sweetnam]

It makes no sense that a Ukrainian fighter jet would shoot down a large aircraft with a west-to-east trajectory. That isn't to say the Ukrainian military didn't shoot it down however. Both sides in this conflict are equipped with sophisticated anti-aircraft missiles capable of shooting down a jet at 30,000+ ft. Everything points to the ethnic Russians. Yet if Ukrainian Air Force jets hadn't been so busy pounding "rebel" civilian targets for weeks on end before the tragedy, it's questionable if ethnic Russian militiamen would have been so fast on the trigger.

 

[AceRothstein]

WOW, a secret witness! COOL!

 

[Stratford57]

The official investigators should seek an interview with this person to see if he has credibility. They have very little to loose and everything to gain.
BTW, many of the witnesses in Ferguson were afraid to be named in fear of retaliation.

 

[Syriusly]

. I see no other countries besides Russia seeking the truth in this investigation.

Of course- because unlike every other country in the world....Russia is devoted to the truth.......

 

[TimothysAlaska]

U

So far Russians are the only ones who are trying to push MH-17 crash investigation. Holland and Britain, who are designated to investigate it, are keeping suspiciously silence. Malaysia, who’s Boeing was shot, is not even allowed to participate in investigation, may be because it has published some results of its own in in July:
MH17 Pockmarks look like from very very heavy machine gun fire says first OSCE monitor on-scene New Straits Times
At the time of crash there was a group of American satellites above the place of the catastrophe, which has taped the full picture of the Boeing crash. However that information has not been provided to the public probably because it doesn’t support what the narrative the USA, EU and Ukraine have been telling.
At the end of his interview the secret witness said: “I would recommend to analyze all the reports of deaths/whereabouts of all the Ukrainian professional fighter pilots since July, 17. More likely such kind of person would be eliminated by now.” Russia is hoping ICAO (International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) would be interested to use the new witnesses’ data in their investigation.

For those who don’t remember I’d like to remind: Ukraine has already had experience in shooting a civilian plane and denying it before, in 2001. The plane was flying from Israel to Russia.

A secret witness claims that it was a Ukrainian Su-25 aircraft that downed the Malaysian Boeing, flight MH-17, near Donetsk, in the summer of 2014. The Komsomolskaya Pravda newspaper, whose journalists interviewed the unnamed witness, said that on July 17, two Ukrainian military aircraft were shot down in the war zone, and the pilot of the third fighter jet fired an air-to-air missile into the Malaysian Boeing.

(The witness is not ready to announce his name to public yet because he has relatives in Ukraine and fears for their lives and safety. As a non-proud resident of Ukraine I can confirm: he has very good reasons for that. There truly are a lot of people killed, kidnapped and thrown to prison, just because they didn’t share same point of view with official Kiev. And as a rule local police even refuses to investigate those cases.)

Below is the interview that the man gave to the Komsomolskaya Pravda newspaper.

Su-25 fighter jet returned without missiles

"Where were you July 17, 2014, the day when the Malaysian Boeing was shot down?"

"I was on the territory of Ukraine in Dnepropetrovsk, in Aviatorskoe village. There's a common airport there. Fighters and helicopters were based there. The planes would regular go on sorties, Su-25 fighter jets would bomb Donetsk and Luhansk."

"Did the planes fly operationally every day?"

"They did, every day."

"Why do you suggest that these planes could be related to the crash of the Boeing?"

"For several reasons. Out of eight planes that were based there, only two were outfitted with air-to-air missiles. The missiles were mounted on those two planes."

"Why? Were there battles in the air?"

"No, the missiles were mounted on the aircraft to cover them up in the air, just in case. Basically, the planes were armed with ammunition for ground operations, such as unguided missiles and bombs."

"Tell us about July 17th."

"The planes were flying regularly that day. They were flying the whole day, since early morning. In the afternoon, about an hour before the Boeing was shot down, three strike fighters took off for a mission. I do not remember the time exactly. One of the aircraft was equipped with such missiles. It was a Su-25."

"Did you personally see that?"

"Yes, I did."

"Where was you observation point?"

"On the territory. I won't say specifically."

"Did you have a possibility to see what was being suspended to the pylons of the aircraft? Could you confuse between air-to-air and ground-to-air missiles?"

"No, I could not mix them up. They vary in size, fin assembly, coloration and the guiding head. It is very easy to identify them. In general, after a while, only one plane returned, two others were shot down, somewhere in the east of Ukraine, so I was told. One plane returned, on which those missiles were suspended."

"Did it return without the missiles?"

"Without missiles. The pilot was very scared."

"Are you familiar with that pilot, have you ever seen him?"

"Yes."

"Can you say what his name is?"

"His last name is Voloshin."

"Was he alone in the plane?'

"Yes, he was. The aircraft is designed for one person."

"Do you know his name?"

"Vladislav, I think. I can not say for sure. He's a captain."

The plane was at the wrong place at the wrong time

"So Captain Voloshin returned. Next?"

"He returned without ammunition."

"The missiles were gone?"

"Yes."

"So the plane returned from a mission, you were not aware about the crash of the Boeing yet, but you were somehow surprised with the absence of air-to-air missiles. How come?"

"Those missiles are not included in the basic ammunition. They can be suspended on a plane following a special order. As a rule, they tried not to fly aircraft with those missiles, because one can not move such missiles in the air just like that. It's possible to hang only two such missiles on this plane. They have never been used before. They had been decommissioned. However, a week before the crash of the Boeing, the use of those missiles was urgently extended. The missiles had not been used for many years."

"Why?"

"Their resource expired. They are of the Soviet production."

Ukrainian pilot shot down the Malaysian Boeing

"Did they hang them on the plane that day?"

"They were all the time with those missiles."

"But they did not fly?"

"They tried not to, as every flight reduces resource. Yet, the plane took off that day."

"And it returned without them?"

"Yes. As long as I know the pilot a little ... it is quite possible that when two aircraft were shot down before his eyes, he simply showed a frightened, inadequate reaction. He could launch the missiles at the Boeing out of fright or to revenge. Maybe, he took it for some other combat aircraft."

"Were they the missiles with homing heads?"

"Yes."

"Do they search for the target themselves?"

"No. It is the pilot who sets the target. Then he launches a missile, and it flies to the target."

"What else do you remember from that day? What did the pilot say?"

"The phrase that he said when he was taken off the plane: "Wrong plane." And in the evening, there was a phrase that he said answering a question from another pilot, who asked Voloshin: "What happened to the plane?" To which he replied: "The plane was in the wrong place at the wrong times."

"Was the pilot serving there for long? How old is he?"

"Voloshin is about 30 years. His unit is based in Nikolaev. They were sent to Dnepropetrovsk. Before that, he had been to Chuguev, near Kharkov. They were bombing Donetsk and Luhansk during all that time. And, according to a serviceman from the unit in Nikolaev, they still continue to do it."

Ukraine stated that on the day of the disaster there were no sorties made

"Did the pilots have a good combat experience?"

"Those who were there they were experienced. The Nikolaev unit was the best unit in Ukraine in 2013, I think."

"Did Pilots try to discuss the story of the Boeing?"

"All attempts to discuss it would be immediately suppressed. The pilots, they would interact with each other, and they were so ... proud."

"What happened to this pilot, Captain Voloshin, after they learned about the Boeing?"

'They continued the sorties. The pilots were the same."

"Let's try to simulate events. How could they develop? Three aircraft flew on a combat mission. They found themselves in the zone, in which the passenger Boeing was flying. Two aircraft were shot down. Captain Voloshin got nervous and scared, and perhaps he took the Boeing for a combat aircraft?"

"Maybe. The distance was large, so he could not see what kind of plane it was exactly."

"From what distance can those missiles be launched?"

"From about 3-5 km, they can set a target."

"What about the speed difference between a combat aircraft and a Boeing?

"It doesn't matter: a missile has a pretty good speed. A plane can - at its maximum altitude of 7,000 meters - easy fix the target. The flight range of the missile is more than 10 kilometers."

"At what distance does this missile explode? Can it hit a target and then explode?

"It can, depending on the modification. It can literally fly into the body and it can also explode at a distance of 500 meters."

"We worked at the crash site of the Boeing and noticed that fragments hit the body of the aircraft шт a very concentrated way. It looked like it exploded just two meters away from the Boeing."

"There is such a missile, it explodes like shrapnel."

"Ukraine stated that they had no sorties that day. We checked various sources on the downed aircraft. Ukraine denies that its warplanes were flying that day."

"I know about it. Ukraine also said that those two aircraft were shot down on December 16, not on December 17. They repeatedly changed the date. But in fact, sorties would be conducted daily. I saw it myself. There were sorties made even during the time of the truce, however, less often."

"What weapons were there on the aircraft at your airport? Were phosphorous bombs used or incendiary mixtures? The Ukrainian artillery was using them actively on the ground."

"I did not see phosphorous bombs. They used volume-detonating bombs, though."

"Are they banned?"

"Yes, they are. The bomb was designed for Afghanistan. It was banned under some convention, I do not remember exactly which one. The bomb scorches everything out."

"Were they mounted on aircraft and then used in combat action?"

"Yes. There were also banned cluster bombs. An aviation cluster bomb, depending on the size, can strike very large targets. To completely destroy a stadium, one bomb is enough."

"Why were they using such weapons?"

"They were following orders. Whose orders exactly remains unclear."

"What the main purpose of such weapons - intimidation?"

"No - maximum destruction of manpower."

"Why did you go to Russia ad decided to tell us about it? You're not the only witness!"

"The Security Service of Ukraine and the National Guard of Ukraine intimidated all. People can be beaten for every careless word, or jailed for any insignificant suspicion of being sympathetic to Russia or to the militia. I was against the "anti-terrorist operation" from the start. I do not agree with the policy of the Ukrainian administration. A civil war is a wrong way to go. Killing your own people is not normal. I do not want to stay in Ukraine to be involved in all that."

Ukrainian pilot shot down Malaysian Boeing MH17 secret witness says - English pravda.ru

Sounds like a Russian plant...it was Russia that shot it down. Besides they said they flew 3 su-25....lol. It's a miracle if they get one off the ground... And this guy was talking about aircraft loads.....was he an ammo troop? Weapons? Well he went into detail on the bombs but not the missile? What type of missile was it.... ? That would tell me a lot on the capabilities. And he said that they were scared and shot a missile at an aircraft he could not identify or readily see. As a pilot with experience in the Ukraine he would know the routes and have the routes and maps with him of civilian aircraft and military zones and what altitude they fly at and he would be used to those areas as being an experienced pilot not to mention the aircraft would be transmitting its modes 1 and 3c altitude and general aircraft Id so he would know what aircraft it was and that it was a civilian aircraft..lol bunch of bullshit....the su 25 is a primary air to ground aircraft with a/a capabilities. Looking at this story I see so many holes in it that it's laughable.....worked avionics for 20 years....don't be gullible dude. That "guy" was full of shit.

 

[georgephillip]

Well no chance of a conflict of interest there.....Pravda after all means 'truth'

 

[Stratford57]

Sounds like a Russian plant...it was Russia that shot it down. Besides they said they flew 3 su-25....lol. It's a miracle if they get one off the ground... And this guy was talking about aircraft loads.....was he an ammo troop? Weapons? Well he went into detail on the bombs but not the missile? What type of missile was it.... ? That would tell me a lot on the capabilities. And he said that they were scared and shot a missile at an aircraft he could not identify or readily see. As a pilot with experience in the Ukraine he would know the routes and have the routes and maps with him of civilian aircraft and military zones and what altitude they fly at and he would be used to those areas as being an experienced pilot not to mention the aircraft would be transmitting its modes 1 and 3c altitude and general aircraft Id so he would know what aircraft it was and that it was a civilian aircraft..lol bunch of bullshit....the su 25 is a primary air to ground aircraft with a/a capabilities. Looking at this story I see so many holes in it that it's laughable.....worked avionics for 20 years....don't be gullible dude. That "guy" was full of shit.

Who has proven Russians shot it down? All the world has heard Obama's making a big noise about "irrefutable evidence", has anybody seen it? He must show those pictures at least in memory and for respect for the victims and their families.

 

[TimothysAlaska]

Well they did move Sam sites into the region, for Russia to protect their "interest". The guy you quoted speculated on all the events, reading it, it was apparent to me he knew nothing about aircraft. Except he was able to detail supposed "forbidden bombs" on some of the aircraft. But not the supposed missile that he speculated was used. He did not know how aircraft can id each other. He did not know that the su-25 has radar warning receivers that let it know what threat is tracking it and where that threat is. And why were they flying an su-25 with just missiles it is used for close air support like our a-10. They may have used an su 27 or a mig 29 for a/a protection being that close to Russia.

So you would rather believe a guy that speculates about everything and knows nothing about aircraft besides what he sees from his town he lives a in. Then the us which has been watching the area and has expert people involved in it with sensors that can detect what happened. I doubt that guy knows the difference between an su-25 and a mig 29.

 

[Stratford57]

Well they did move Sam sites into the region, for Russia to protect their "interest". The guy you quoted speculated on all the events, reading it, it was apparent to me he knew nothing about aircraft. Except he was able to detail supposed "forbidden bombs" on some of the aircraft. But not the supposed missile that he speculated was used. He did not know how aircraft can id each other. He did not know that the su-25 has radar warning receivers that let it know what threat is tracking it and where that threat is. And why were they flying an su-25 with just missiles it is used for close air support like our a-10. They may have used an su 27 or a mig 29 for a/a protection being that close to Russia.

So you would rather believe a guy that speculates about everything and knows nothing about aircraft besides what he sees from his town he lives a in. Then the us which has been watching the area and has expert people involved in it with sensors that can detect what happened. I doubt that guy knows the difference between an su-25 and a mig 29.

You made a pretty good point. I don’t know if you’re an expert of not but I still think that International experts should question this witness to find out if there is any true to what he’s saying. Russian experts have already started investigating his story and they are hoping ICAO would join them. Witnesses are almost always ordinary people, they normally have contradictions in their stories, sometimes two witnesses to the same event contradict each other, it’s normal, that’s why there experts in the world and why anyone claiming to be a witness should be question. This is not some minor crime but mass murder and no stone should go unturned.

What gets me in this case is that it has been almost 6 month since the crash and by this time there should be all the answers provided. But:
- Obama has never publishes his “irrefutable evidence” he claimed to have;
- Ukraine has never published the negotiations between MH-17 pilot and Ukrainian air traffic controller, which usually is done in just a few days after a crash;
- Malaysia is not allowed to participate the International investigation even though the plane belonged to Malaysia;
- Russia, who was instantly blamed for the crash, keeps requesting an international investigating;
- Holland and Britain, who are designated to investigate the crash are slow and silent (except for one report, which didn’t contain any new information a few months ago);
-Ukrainians already have a history of shooting down a civilian plane and lying until the real evidence proved them guilty of shooting down the plane and trying to cover it up.
Ukraine admits it shot down Russian airliner - Telegraph

These facts alone should raise questions in anyone’s mind that something here doesn’t pass the smell test. Russians were accused in shooting the plane literally within first half an hour after the tragedy without presenting any facts. One shouldn’t be surprised that they are trying to find and to question everybody, who potentially could be helpful. One thing is surprising: they are the only country in the world who is trying to find the truth and are the only ones inviting other countries to join them.

 

[suplex3000]

Sounds like a Russian plant...it was Russia that shot it down. Besides they said they flew 3 su-25....lol. It's a miracle if they get one off the ground... And this guy was talking about aircraft loads.....was he an ammo troop? Weapons? Well he went into detail on the bombs but not the missile? What type of missile was it.... ? That would tell me a lot on the capabilities. And he said that they were scared and shot a missile at an aircraft he could not identify or readily see. As a pilot with experience in the Ukraine he would know the routes and have the routes and maps with him of civilian aircraft and military zones and what altitude they fly at and he would be used to those areas as being an experienced pilot not to mention the aircraft would be transmitting its modes 1 and 3c altitude and general aircraft Id so he would know what aircraft it was and that it was a civilian aircraft..lol bunch of bullshit....the su 25 is a primary air to ground aircraft with a/a capabilities. Looking at this story I see so many holes in it that it's laughable.....worked avionics for 20 years....don't be gullible dude. That "guy" was full of shit.

Who has proven Russians shot it down? All the world has heard Obama's making a big noise about "irrefutable evidence", has anybody seen it? He must show those pictures at least in memory and for respect for the victims and their families.

Yes, I love these "irrefutable evidence" too.

Is it an evidence?
What about this picture?

Either Magneto works for Russia or it's just a little bit strange.
Don't you think so? No?

 

[Steinlight]

Aren't we supposed to hate Russia because they arrested some gay rock group or because they support Assad in his fight against moderate ISIS rebels?

I don't know, but I guess he is a bad guy and we need to be continuing our sanctions on him. I am sure there is a valid national security interest in Ukraine that prompted us to support the uprising there. I am just a dumb hick from flyover country that can't comprehend it I guess.

 

[Steinlight]

I am sure the US Government wouldn't lie to us that Russia or the rebels shot down MH17. If they don't show us the photos I am sure they have a good reason. We should just take their word for it. They have a good track record in the past.

 

[suplex3000]

Aren't we supposed to hate Russia because they arrested some gay rock group or because they support Assad in his fight against moderate ISIS rebels?

I don't know, but I guess he is a bad guy and we need to be continuing our sanctions on him. I am sure there is a valid national security interest in Ukraine that prompted us to support the uprising there. I am just a dumb hick from flyover country that can't comprehend it I guess.

I am sure the US Government wouldn't lie to us that Russia or the rebels shot down MH17. If they don't show us the photos I am sure they have a good reason. We should just take their word for it. They have a good track record in the past.

1)It was not a gay rock group. They were dancing and shouting in the central cathedral in Moscow. Is it acceptable in normal society?
2)Do you know anything else about ISIS'?
3)I guess he is a bad guy. Like Joker or like Magneto?
4)National security interest in Ukraine. What did you know about Ukraine before 2013?
5)I am sure the US Government wouldn't lie to us that Russia or the rebels shot down MH17. Yes, they never lie.NEVER.

 

[Steinlight]

Aren't we supposed to hate Russia because they arrested some gay rock group or because they support Assad in his fight against moderate ISIS rebels?

I don't know, but I guess he is a bad guy and we need to be continuing our sanctions on him. I am sure there is a valid national security interest in Ukraine that prompted us to support the uprising there. I am just a dumb hick from flyover country that can't comprehend it I guess.

I am sure the US Government wouldn't lie to us that Russia or the rebels shot down MH17. If they don't show us the photos I am sure they have a good reason. We should just take their word for it. They have a good track record in the past.

1)It was not a gay rock group. They were dancing and shouting in the central cathedral in Moscow. Is it acceptable in normal society?
2)Do you know anything else about ISIS'?
3)I guess he is a bad guy. Like Joker or like Magneto?
4)National security interest in Ukraine. What did you know about Ukraine before 2013?
5)I am sure the US Government wouldn't lie to us that Russia or the rebels shot down MH17. Yes, they never lie.NEVER.

Time Magazine and other trustworthy media sources said Putin is the new Hitler. Surely you think we should stand up to the new Hitler? We can't have 1938 again, or something...Bill Kristol and Victoria Nuland said so. I am sure they know best.

 

[Indofred]

Lots of versions of this story around, all suggesting various shoot down methods, but none showing rebels with the ability to do it.
That's the big hole in the story - no one can show the rebels had the weapons.

 

[Stratford57]

Unlikely Obama, who clearly has “irrefutable evidence” but doesn’t want to show it to the world, Russia is willing to show all the evidence they’ve collected to International Experts (ICAO) and to start a transparent investigation, involving more than just two countries.

Everybody knows now: as soon as Russia can prove Ukrainians shot down MH-17, it will be “Game Over” for Ukraine and their supporters.

 

[JFK_USA]

Republicans defending their God Putin. Priceless