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Unions have been violently thuggish in forcing workers to join Unions for many years. You want to play dumb on that, it's cool with me. But i know you're full of shite. If Unions are so wonderful, why do they have to force people to join? Think about that for a bit.
Kiwiman is correct that all unions are not thuggish. Many, mostly smaller localized unions, actually do provide the service that unions were originally created to provide.
Kiwiman, however, is very naive and short sighted if he thinks there are not many unions that deserve the label of thuggish.
But I have never applied that. Sure there are "union thugs" out there, but really, those people would be in the minority. I would care to bet that less 10% than all union members would fall under the "union thugs" description. There's about 15 million union members in the US, I highly doubt that there is even 150,000 that could be classified as "union thugs", thusly making "union thugs" less than 1%.
Sounds like a good reason to get rid of capitalism and replace it with democracy, then.
Um, capitalism is an economic system, democracy is a political system. You can not replace capitalism with democracy since they are two different things entirely.
quite the contrary, Democracy can be an economic system.
Such as- instead of having the factory run by a few greedy assholes trying to make the stockholders happy, it's run by the employees, and they vote on the best courses of action.
Incidently, not a big stretch, in Japan and Germany the Unions have a say in who the CEO is.
Unfortunately, what we've done with our economy has let the Foxes run the Henhouse, and not surprisingly, we don't have any hens left.
quite the contrary, Democracy can be an economic system.
Such as- instead of having the factory run by a few greedy assholes trying to make the stockholders happy, it's run by the employees, and they vote on the best courses of action.
Incidently, not a big stretch, in Japan and Germany the Unions have a say in who the CEO is.
Unfortunately, what we've done with our economy has let the Foxes run the Henhouse, and not surprisingly, we don't have any hens left.
Democracy is just like unions.
Mob rule.
Good point Joe.
I'd trust my co-workers before I'd trust the lying greedy stockolders any day of the week.
Democracy is just like unions.
Mob rule.
Good point Joe.
I'd trust my co-workers before I'd trust the lying greedy stockolders any day of the week.
Unfortunately you seem to trust your union bosses more than you trust those who are responsible to turn a profit and keep the business on its feet. You so far have seemed to completely ignore those CEOs who are in bed with the unions for the immediate circumstances, and neither caring about long term consequences of unsustainable union contracts.
I'd trust my co-workers before I'd trust the lying greedy stockolders any day of the week.
Unfortunately you seem to trust your union bosses more than you trust those who are responsible to turn a profit and keep the business on its feet. You so far have seemed to completely ignore those CEOs who are in bed with the unions for the immediate circumstances, and neither caring about long term consequences of unsustainable union contracts.
Can you provide examples of CEOs "in bed with" union bosses? I can't think of any and that concept just seems so foreign to me. A union boss will drive a corporation to bankruptcy before giving an inch. In that respect, they do not have even the best interests of their members at heart. All that matters to them is the union dues that come in.
Immie
Unfortunately you seem to trust your union bosses more than you trust those who are responsible to turn a profit and keep the business on its feet. You so far have seemed to completely ignore those CEOs who are in bed with the unions for the immediate circumstances, and neither caring about long term consequences of unsustainable union contracts.
Can you provide examples of CEOs "in bed with" union bosses? I can't think of any and that concept just seems so foreign to me. A union boss will drive a corporation to bankruptcy before giving an inch. In that respect, they do not have even the best interests of their members at heart. All that matters to them is the union dues that come in.
Immie
Sure. I've give you General Motors that is just one of hundreds we could name. CEOs of General Motors enjoyed great profits for decades. And they often staved off threatened work slow downs or strikes by agreeing to union demands. And in the process, GM workers received amazing retirement packages that would support them for the rest of their lives. Many could retire far earlier than normal to enjoy the lap of luxury provided by lifetime guarantees for them and their families.
The pension plans forged between CEOs and union bosses, just like those forged in state governments across the land, were no more feasibly sustainable than has been social security. But because the CEOs and the union bosses were gambling on being able to retire themselves and be long gone with the considerable personal fortunes they had amassed before anything serious hit the fan, they didn't care whether the contracts were sustainable or not.
And voila. The housing bubble collapses in late 2008, the economy tanks, and the business downturn severely cuts into the company profits. But it doesn't cut into the unearned lifetime pension benefits or reduce the artificial high wages and benefits paid to the workers. And suddenly companies like GM and all those state governments were reeling at the brink of bankruptcy.
Whenever you have unions or CEOs or heads of state government agreeing to unsustainable benefits and policy on the theory that they will be long gone before the shit hits the fan, everybody will eventually lose except for those who took the money and ran.
Um, capitalism is an economic system, democracy is a political system. You can not replace capitalism with democracy since they are two different things entirely.
quite the contrary, Democracy can be an economic system.
Such as- instead of having the factory run by a few greedy assholes trying to make the stockholders happy, it's run by the employees, and they vote on the best courses of action.
Incidently, not a big stretch, in Japan and Germany the Unions have a say in who the CEO is.
Unfortunately, what we've done with our economy has let the Foxes run the Henhouse, and not surprisingly, we don't have any hens left.
Better the foxes than you wolves.
IMHO
Immie
Most amuzing are the morons that claim it was Romney's fault the Indiana steel producer shut down and all those jobs were lost.
The 1959 United Steelworkers of America strike started the end of the steel industry in America. When the Indiana steel company that Bain Capital tried to save collapsed 50 other steel companies in America also failed.
Why?
Unions.
How can any company that depends on a constant supply of steel ever rely on an American union shop steel producing company?
They can't so starting in the late 50s they went overseas for reliable stocks of steel for the production of their products.
The strike of 1959 was the first time American companies WERE FORCED to go overseas to get the needed steel for the production of their products. Union workers destroyed the American steel industry just like they destroyed the American auto industry and EVERY OTHER industry in America they used their extortion tactics on.
Unions are the worker's enemy.
Most amuzing are the morons that claim it was Romney's fault the Indiana steel producer shut down and all those jobs were lost.
The 1959 United Steelworkers of America strike started the end of the steel industry in America. When the Indiana steel company that Bain Capital tried to save collapsed 50 other steel companies in America also failed.
Why?
Unions.
How can any company that depends on a constant supply of steel ever rely on an American union shop steel producing company?
They can't so starting in the late 50s they went overseas for reliable stocks of steel for the production of their products.
The strike of 1959 was the first time American companies WERE FORCED to go overseas to get the needed steel for the production of their products. Union workers destroyed the American steel industry just like they destroyed the American auto industry and EVERY OTHER industry in America they used their extortion tactics on.
Unions are the worker's enemy.
If you can't even get your basic facts straight, I'm not sure why you are making your point.
GST Steel was based out of Kansas City. And yes, the 750 people got past that strike in 1959 and lasted another 40 years until Mitt Romney came into their lives.
It should also be pointed out that a lot of these steel companies didn't invest in modern stuff after WWII, while Germany and Japan had to rebuild new plants out of necessity (as we blew the ones they had up.)
I'm really wondering what this hatred of unions you have is Gawdog.
Did you try to cross a picket line and get that ass-kicking you had coming.
Only the insane liberal is ok with a union boss making $1M over making sure his fellow goons make $80K.
Only the insane liberal is ok with a union boss making $1M over making sure his fellow goons make $80K.
Far better than the CEO making 80M while his job gets shipped to China...
Company CEOs are in charge of everyone in a company and they have to answer to the BOT and shareholders.
A union boss is just a leach that gets the workers of the company to blackmail the CEO and company into giving them more money or else they will shut it down.
Only the insane liberal is ok with a union boss making $1M over making sure his fellow goons make $80K.
Far better than the CEO making 80M while his job gets shipped to China...
Okay. Fine. They do.
And they have to answer to us.
You don't play by OUR rules, you don't play in our house.
Pay your people a decent wage, employ Americans and provide a safe and clean work environment... Or you aren't allowed to sell here. Period.
Sounds reasonable to me.
Company CEOs are in charge of everyone in a company and they have to answer to the BOT and shareholders.
A union boss is just a leach that gets the workers of the company to blackmail the CEO and company into giving them more money or else they will shut it down.
Far better than the CEO making 80M while his job gets shipped to China...
Most amuzing are the morons that claim it was Romney's fault the Indiana steel producer shut down and all those jobs were lost.
The 1959 United Steelworkers of America strike started the end of the steel industry in America. When the Indiana steel company that Bain Capital tried to save collapsed 50 other steel companies in America also failed.
Why?
Unions.
How can any company that depends on a constant supply of steel ever rely on an American union shop steel producing company?
They can't so starting in the late 50s they went overseas for reliable stocks of steel for the production of their products.
The strike of 1959 was the first time American companies WERE FORCED to go overseas to get the needed steel for the production of their products. Union workers destroyed the American steel industry just like they destroyed the American auto industry and EVERY OTHER industry in America they used their extortion tactics on.
Unions are the worker's enemy.
If you can't even get your basic facts straight, I'm not sure why you are making your point.
GST Steel was based out of Kansas City. And yes, the 750 people got past that strike in 1959 and lasted another 40 years until Mitt Romney came into their lives.
It should also be pointed out that a lot of these steel companies didn't invest in modern stuff after WWII, while Germany and Japan had to rebuild new plants out of necessity (as we blew the ones they had up.)
I'm really wondering what this hatred of unions you have is Gawdog.
Did you try to cross a picket line and get that ass-kicking you had coming.
I visited the Bethlehem Steel plant in the mid seventies. It was obvious that they had not invested in their industrial plant since the government handouts of the 40s. They went out of business within five years
If you can't even get your basic facts straight, I'm not sure why you are making your point.
GST Steel was based out of Kansas City. And yes, the 750 people got past that strike in 1959 and lasted another 40 years until Mitt Romney came into their lives.
It should also be pointed out that a lot of these steel companies didn't invest in modern stuff after WWII, while Germany and Japan had to rebuild new plants out of necessity (as we blew the ones they had up.)
I'm really wondering what this hatred of unions you have is Gawdog.
Did you try to cross a picket line and get that ass-kicking you had coming.
I visited the Bethlehem Steel plant in the mid seventies. It was obvious that they had not invested in their industrial plant since the government handouts of the 40s. They went out of business within five years
The money they would have spent went to outsized union wages and benefits.
I visited the Bethlehem Steel plant in the mid seventies. It was obvious that they had not invested in their industrial plant since the government handouts of the 40s. They went out of business within five years
The money they would have spent went to outsized union wages and benefits.
Or it went to ill-advised profit taking
The money they would have spent went to outsized union wages and benefits.
Or it went to ill-advised profit taking
If it went to profit taking they would still be in business. Duh.
