Voters Cry Foul Play in NY 23rd District (Owens)

[amrchaos]

Another example of a third party candidate throwing an election to the Democrat and yet all of talk radio and punditry kept talking about what a message it sent and what a victory it was. Fuzzy math I guess.

Hate to keep reminding you but Hoffman ran against 2 Democrats, one of whom was actually running on the D line

Hate to break it to you, but he ran against a Democrat and a Republican (granted, not a social conservative wingnut) and lost. So you got Democrat heavy instead of Republican lite which are miles apart except to the litmus testers. Congrat on the "victory".

If you are a supporter of the Democrats, why do you keep reminding Republicans of the hardcore truth.

Let them feel good about the Hoffman loss, then show why the Hoffman spells doom to Republican chances in future elections.

Bottomline--the Hoffman race actually shows how weak the Republican party is, how infighting and lack of focus will keep them out of power. And reveals fatal structural damage in the base of the Republican party. Also, with the constant howl of "this is a victory for conservatives" lies the solution for Democratic victory in the next two elections.

Republicans are not Conservative is the message. "Why should you vote for a Republican?
He is not a conservative!" Could be used to confuse the Republican base. Running two or three "ulta conservatives" on the side would split the Republican vote. Declarations that you do have conservative leanings yet able to get real reform for Americans done through the aid of Blue Dog Democrats(or claiming you are a Blue dog Democrat) would bring some conservatives to your side.

In the end, the Republican party is dead meat due to the damage to their image and belief that they do not hold to principles according to the base. Dems can take the lesson from the Hoffman race and make this problem national.


A win for Conservatism? They are ripping the Republican party apart, performing RINO hunts during elections and losing seats, and thus their voice in government, in the process. Also, the fact that they would argue that the conservative movement actually won something huge is a sign of delusion and signalify their lack of desires to meet internal problems head on, but to spin them so that they can feel good about themselves.

It is the sign of a party in free fall. Unless the Conservative party becomes a seperate entity in itself, or the Libertarian party take the political lead for the right, we may see The March of Left Wing Ideaologues through the halls of Washington for a couple of election cycles. Come to think about it, this has already begun.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. No kewpie doll for you, but play again.

that's something gfb28 would say.

gfb28?

Someone form the old board who also claimed Conservative creds yet could never name a single Conservative she'd ever support.

 

[kwc57]

that's something gfb28 would say.

gfb28?

Someone form the old board who also claimed Conservative creds yet could never name a single Conservative she'd ever support.

Ahhh. "Claimed" conservative creds? Funny, I feel the same way about you.

As I've always said, I'm an honest conservative and call a spade a spade. I've never been and never wiil be a "me too" conservative who mindlessly parrots talk show entertainers. You know the type. They were once proud Republicans, then conservatives, then independents, then libertarians.........then whatever counted depending on which way the wind blew a buck in their general direction. The guys who supported "conservative" Rudy for president, but get all in a dither over Scozzofava.

My views have always been constant and consistent and one of those views is that half of the "conservatives" in this country wouldn't know what a true conservative was if they bit them on the ass.

 

[Tech_Esq]

Democrats are smart to rub voter noses in their treachery.

No way this will backfire on them in 2010

I think that you are being sarcastic. But if I were Owens I would not be going home for Thanksgiving without alot of additional security.

Really? You think voters in NY 23rd are violent people?

No, they passed a law against people being violent in New York, so they aren't.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

gfb28?

Someone form the old board who also claimed Conservative creds yet could never name a single Conservative she'd ever support.

Ahhh. "Claimed" conservative creds? Funny, I feel the same way about you.

As I've always said, I'm an honest conservative and call a spade a spade. I've never been and never wiil be a "me too" conservative who mindlessly parrots talk show entertainers. You know the type. They were once proud Republicans, then conservatives, then independents, then libertarians.........then whatever counted depending on which way the wind blew a buck in their general direction. The guys who supported "conservative" Rudy for president, but get all in a dither over Scozzofava.

My views have always been constant and consistent and one of those views is that half of the "conservatives" in this country wouldn't know what a true conservative was if they bit them on the ass.

Rudy was a Conservative where he could have made a difference: Fiscal policy and national defense. He would have picked Scalia like judges so I still can't understand what "real" Conservatives ever had against him.

He dressed in drag? Big deal

 

[Tech_Esq]

gfb28?

Someone form the old board who also claimed Conservative creds yet could never name a single Conservative she'd ever support.

Ahhh. "Claimed" conservative creds? Funny, I feel the same way about you.

As I've always said, I'm an honest conservative and call a spade a spade. I've never been and never wiil be a "me too" conservative who mindlessly parrots talk show entertainers. You know the type. They were once proud Republicans, then conservatives, then independents, then libertarians.........then whatever counted depending on which way the wind blew a buck in their general direction. The guys who supported "conservative" Rudy for president, but get all in a dither over Scozzofava.

My views have always been constant and consistent and one of those views is that half of the "conservatives" in this country wouldn't know what a true conservative was if they bit them on the ass.

I have no problem with the Libertarian wing of the Repub party, but I don't see what Scuzzy has to do with that either. As far as I could tell she was just a Dem with an R behind her name. Is there something you can point to that would make me think differently?

 

[kwc57]

Someone form the old board who also claimed Conservative creds yet could never name a single Conservative she'd ever support.

Ahhh. "Claimed" conservative creds? Funny, I feel the same way about you.

As I've always said, I'm an honest conservative and call a spade a spade. I've never been and never wiil be a "me too" conservative who mindlessly parrots talk show entertainers. You know the type. They were once proud Republicans, then conservatives, then independents, then libertarians.........then whatever counted depending on which way the wind blew a buck in their general direction. The guys who supported "conservative" Rudy for president, but get all in a dither over Scozzofava.

My views have always been constant and consistent and one of those views is that half of the "conservatives" in this country wouldn't know what a true conservative was if they bit them on the ass.

Rudy was a Conservative where he could have made a difference: Fiscal policy and national defense. He would have picked Scalia like judges so I still can't understand what "real" Conservatives ever had against him.

He dressed in drag? Big deal

See, exactly my point. Hypocritical point picking just to score points for the team. Rudy was pro-choice and anti-gun. Even Scozzofava had the backing of the NRA......so why was Rudy considered a "conservative" Republican and Scozzofava considered the same as a liberal Democrat and a Republican in name only?

Give that some thought.

Bottom line, the noise machine with their point scoring litmus tests ran off the more conservative of the two running in the election in favor of a third party candidate. Instead of getting a person close to Rudy's moderate conservative politics, they got someone closer to Obama's liberalism. Nicely played......for the other side. When are people going to learn?

 

[EriktheRed]

Just noticed there are no links in the OP's article to back up the premise being sold here.

 

[Tech_Esq]

Ahhh. "Claimed" conservative creds? Funny, I feel the same way about you.

As I've always said, I'm an honest conservative and call a spade a spade. I've never been and never wiil be a "me too" conservative who mindlessly parrots talk show entertainers. You know the type. They were once proud Republicans, then conservatives, then independents, then libertarians.........then whatever counted depending on which way the wind blew a buck in their general direction. The guys who supported "conservative" Rudy for president, but get all in a dither over Scozzofava.

My views have always been constant and consistent and one of those views is that half of the "conservatives" in this country wouldn't know what a true conservative was if they bit them on the ass.

Rudy was a Conservative where he could have made a difference: Fiscal policy and national defense. He would have picked Scalia like judges so I still can't understand what "real" Conservatives ever had against him.

He dressed in drag? Big deal

See, exactly my point. Hypocritical point picking just to score points for the team. Rudy was pro-choice and anti-gun. Even Scozzofava had the backing of the NRA......so why was Rudy considered a "conservative" Republican and Scozzofava considered the same as a liberal Democrat and a Republican in name only?

Give that some thought.

Bottom line, the noise machine with their point scoring litmus tests ran off the more conservative of the two running in the election in favor of a third party candidate. Instead of getting a person close to Rudy's moderate conservative politics, they got someone closer to Obama's liberalism. Nicely played......for the other side. When are people going to learn?

So, you say she was backed by the NRA. So, you picked a social issue to demonstrate that she in fact was a social conservative when you said she wasn't? Very confusing thought pattern.

It would be more helpful if you could pick another aspect of the Repub platform and demostrate how she supported that than continually pointing out that she didn't passes some un-named and ill-describe "litmus test" that "soc cons" subjected her too, but she's really a Repub, cuz she was supported by the NRA.

(Meanwhile, dozens of very liberal legislators are supported by the NRA. Even Ravi isn't anti-gun).

 

[Annie]

Looks like 4 days before the election he changed his position, so there doesn't seem to be a problem in terms of his vote on the health care bill. If he made clear his change of position prior to the vote, that is.

He's accused of breaking 3 more promises in his first 24 hours in office.

All I can say is you get what you deserve when you support candidates from the two major parties.

He didn't break any of those either.

The promises he supposedly broke were no Medicare benefit cuts, no taxing of health care benefits, and no tax increases on the middle class. The bill doesn't do any of those things.

If all of those things are encompassed in such a bill, should it pass, would you care? Does it bother you at all that they take the US citizenry for fools?

 

[Tech_Esq]

Looks like 4 days before the election he changed his position, so there doesn't seem to be a problem in terms of his vote on the health care bill. If he made clear his change of position prior to the vote, that is.

He's accused of breaking 3 more promises in his first 24 hours in office.

All I can say is you get what you deserve when you support candidates from the two major parties.

He didn't break any of those either.

The promises he supposedly broke were no Medicare benefit cuts, no taxing of health care benefits, and no tax increases on the middle class. The bill doesn't do any of those things.

If all of those things are encompassed in such a bill, should it pass, would you care? Does it bother you at all that they take the US citizenry for fools?

If Polk believes the bill doesn't do those things, he is a fool. So why would it bother him if he was taken for one?

Just sayin'

 

[Annie]

He didn't break any of those either.

The promises he supposedly broke were no Medicare benefit cuts, no taxing of health care benefits, and no tax increases on the middle class. The bill doesn't do any of those things.

If all of those things are encompassed in such a bill, should it pass, would you care? Does it bother you at all that they take the US citizenry for fools?

If Polk believes the bill doesn't do those things, he is a fool. So why would it bother him if he was taken for one?

Just sayin'

Point very well taken.

 

[kwc57]

Rudy was a Conservative where he could have made a difference: Fiscal policy and national defense. He would have picked Scalia like judges so I still can't understand what "real" Conservatives ever had against him.

He dressed in drag? Big deal

See, exactly my point. Hypocritical point picking just to score points for the team. Rudy was pro-choice and anti-gun. Even Scozzofava had the backing of the NRA......so why was Rudy considered a "conservative" Republican and Scozzofava considered the same as a liberal Democrat and a Republican in name only?

Give that some thought.

Bottom line, the noise machine with their point scoring litmus tests ran off the more conservative of the two running in the election in favor of a third party candidate. Instead of getting a person close to Rudy's moderate conservative politics, they got someone closer to Obama's liberalism. Nicely played......for the other side. When are people going to learn?

So, you say she was backed by the NRA. So, you picked a social issue to demonstrate that she in fact was a social conservative when you said she wasn't? Very confusing thought pattern.

It would be more helpful if you could pick another aspect of the Repub platform and demostrate how she supported that than continually pointing out that she didn't passes some un-named and ill-describe "litmus test" that "soc cons" subjected her too, but she's really a Repub, cuz she was supported by the NRA.

(Meanwhile, dozens of very liberal legislators are supported by the NRA. Even Ravi isn't anti-gun).

Since when have guns been a "social" issue? Guns have nothing to do with social conservatives wanting to ram their 1950's WASP religious views down the rest of the nation's throat. Guns are a right protected by the US Consitution.

 

[Tech_Esq]

See, exactly my point. Hypocritical point picking just to score points for the team. Rudy was pro-choice and anti-gun. Even Scozzofava had the backing of the NRA......so why was Rudy considered a "conservative" Republican and Scozzofava considered the same as a liberal Democrat and a Republican in name only?

Give that some thought.

Bottom line, the noise machine with their point scoring litmus tests ran off the more conservative of the two running in the election in favor of a third party candidate. Instead of getting a person close to Rudy's moderate conservative politics, they got someone closer to Obama's liberalism. Nicely played......for the other side. When are people going to learn?

So, you say she was backed by the NRA. So, you picked a social issue to demonstrate that she in fact was a social conservative when you said she wasn't? Very confusing thought pattern.

It would be more helpful if you could pick another aspect of the Repub platform and demostrate how she supported that than continually pointing out that she didn't passes some un-named and ill-describe "litmus test" that "soc cons" subjected her too, but she's really a Repub, cuz she was supported by the NRA.

(Meanwhile, dozens of very liberal legislators are supported by the NRA. Even Ravi isn't anti-gun).

Since when have guns been a "social" issue? Guns have nothing to do with social conservatives wanting to ram their 1950's WASP religious views down the rest of the nation's throat. Guns are a right protected by the US Consitution.

Always been a social issue regardless of the right's position that it is an individual right protected by the Const. The left's position is that it is a collective right held by the state militia. Ergo, social issue. Especially the ramifications of individual gun ownership, just ask the Brady people and Handgun, Inc.

I know, it doesn't fit what you were trying to say, but please, just provide how Scuzzyfuzzy is an exemplar of extolling Republican virtue as stated in the current Republican platform, (whatever it is), and you can prove your point. To tell you the truth, I don't KNOW that she doesn't, but I haven't seen or heard anything from her that makes me think she might.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Democrats are smart to rub voter noses in their treachery.

No way this will backfire on them in 2010

treachery? your hysteria is showing.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Does this really surprise anyone.... Democrats are losing serious credibility....

11:45 am est

by Michael Patrick Leahy of The TCOT Report and Nathan Barker of The Gouverneur Times

From his nomination as the Democratic candidate for Congress in New York’s 23rd Congressional District on August 10 until October 30, barely 84 hours before the polls opened in the special election, newly elected Democratic Congressman Bill Owens was adamantly opposed to health care reform bills that included the "public option."

UPDATE:

President Obama Acknowledged Today That He and Bill Owens Pulled a Health Care Fast One on the Voters in NY-23

The New York Times is reporting that in his pep talk to the Democrats in Congress this morning, President Obama acknowledged that he and newly elected NY-23 Democratic Congressman Bill Owens have pulled a fast one on the voters in that district.

The Times reported the President's comments about Bill Owens today in the context of the overall pending Health Care bill vote:

The president also singled out Representative Bill Owens, the newly-elected Democrat from a historically Republican district in New York, who was sworn into office just on Friday. Mr. Obama noted that Mr. Owens would support the health care bill even though it might not be popular at home.

“Think about Bill Owens,” Mr. Obama said. “He could have dodged it. But he didn’t. And guess what? Bill is sitting right here."

What spin.!!! Obama acknowledged?