War on Islam or Terrorism?

[Hobbit]

Plain and simple:

Fighting islam is wrong. It is a misunderstood religion with devoted followers all over the world including many in the U.S. The VAST majority of these muslims are less violent than your christian neighbor who pisses on his own religion by owning guns, voting Republican, and watching Pat Robertson.

Ok, I'm going to address this one first.

How DARE you even begin to lecture me on what Christianity means and what God would want me to do. You spineless, shameless liberals are all the same. You spend soooo much of your time blaming everything on Christians, telling us how backwards we are and how we're all living in the past just because we think unhealthy, unproductive homosexual relationships and killing your child before are wrong. You pound us continuously about how we're a bunch of backward hicks holding back progress in all areas and how if we'd just stop being so f-ing stupid and wake up, everybody would be a lot better off. Then, when it suits your twisted, selfish little agenda, you godless heathens take one or two verses, out of context, and presume to tell those of us who have personally talked to God that God would dissapprove of our actions. Just who the hell do YOU think you ARE?! Have you talked to God? No? Sit down. You lose. Now, until you can actually read and UNDERSTAND the Bible, don't you even begin to tell me that I can't own guns for hunting God's bounty or protecting what God has given me. Don't tell me I can't vote for politicians that oppose the sanction of abominable sexual practices. And you sure as hell better not tell me that I shouldn't watch a preacher on TV whose primary fault is talking before thinking.

And if there are so many of these non-violent Muslims, where the hell are they and why don't they ever speak up against the violent stuff. Their behavior so far leads me to believe that most of them support terrorism and are just hesitant to say so. If they're so peaceful, then how come there seem to be lethal riots, terrorist attacks, and assassinations almost every day in countries that are predominantly Muslim.

Few care to acknowledge that terrorism--and even violence in the US--is an outgrowth of social environment. When a population has little, it becomes desperate.

You throw in the idealists who look to improve their environment and the power hungry who can take advantage of the idealists and the desperate...suddenly you have a legit movement.

I'm with you to a point. But it seems as though nearly all Muslims out there are either angry mobs or rich guys telling the mobs that they should be angry.

Rico is right that American dependency on oil is not a good thing, at the same time withdrawing from oil use would only worsen the situation. More impoverished people who need someone to blame.

We don't buy oil from the Middle East. At least not much. We buy from Canada. China, Russia, Europe, and Africa buy from the Middle East.

I am not a believer in war, but I do feel that the campaign in Afghanistan was necessary. It cleaned out a state that made no effort to stop terrorists and it improved the lives of the locals.

We did the same thing in Iraq.

Iraq is a different story. Iraq was not a 3rd world country before the war, but 3 years of bombing puts a country on the bubble of disrepair. In previous countries that had an economic dominant minority (like the one that existed in Iraq under Hussein) the fall of the dominant minority led to ethnic cleansing. That would be a tragedy caused by America's paranoia.

And you know this how? Your professor told you? Maybe some web site or newspaper? Well, listen up and listen good. I got to talk to actual Iraqis, as well as many people who were in Iraq for a long time. Before we got there, an Iraqi was only alive and untortured if Saddam willed it. Saddam lived in luxury with oil for food kickbacks while his people starved. Women were hung in the town square by their ankles, naked, during their periods. Those chemical weapons Saddam didn't have? Yeah, he tested them by exterminating Kurdish villages. Now, for the first time, these people don't live under the thumb of a tyrant. They can vote for somebody who isn't Saddam. They have food on the table. There's a military force to protect them from oppressors. If you don't think the Iraqi people are in high hopes now, just go ask the Iraqi soccer team, which, thanks to U.S. intervention, is no longer a torture toy for Uday and their newly inspired hope got them to the bronze medal match at the 2004 Olympics.

All I have to say, at this point, is that you're probably either Michael Moore or one of his puppets. Your posts sound like 9/11 quotes.

 

[1549]

Ok, I'm going to address this one first.

How DARE you even begin to lecture me on what Christianity means and what God would want me to do. You spineless, shameless liberals are all the same. You spend soooo much of your time blaming everything on Christians, telling us how backwards we are and how we're all living in the past just because we think unhealthy, unproductive homosexual relationships and killing your child before are wrong. You pound us continuously about how we're a bunch of backward hicks holding back progress in all areas and how if we'd just stop being so f-ing stupid and wake up, everybody would be a lot better off. Then, when it suits your twisted, selfish little agenda, you godless heathens take one or two verses, out of context, and presume to tell those of us who have personally talked to God that God would dissapprove of our actions. Just who the hell do YOU think you ARE?! Have you talked to God? No? Sit down. You lose. Now, until you can actually read and UNDERSTAND the Bible, don't you even begin to tell me that I can't own guns for hunting God's bounty or protecting what God has given me. Don't tell me I can't vote for politicians that oppose the sanction of abominable sexual practices. And you sure as hell better not tell me that I shouldn't watch a preacher on TV whose primary fault is talking before thinking.

And if there are so many of these non-violent Muslims, where the hell are they and why don't they ever speak up against the violent stuff. Their behavior so far leads me to believe that most of them support terrorism and are just hesitant to say so. If they're so peaceful, then how come there seem to be lethal riots, terrorist attacks, and assassinations almost every day in countries that are predominantly Muslim.

Your rant about me being anti-christian was way off base. I am christian and I get pissed when people do un-christian things in the name of my religion.

Terrorism is not just a muslim thing, the irish are catholic and have been committing terrorist attacks for centuries. Yet you do not consider them all to be violent because you know more Irish people and because they are white.

Also, many muslims speak against violence.

Read the thread I created a few seconds ago...you will either enjoy it or turn red with rage and have a stroke. So try to take it easy when you read it.

 

[Hobbit]

Your rant about me being anti-christian was way off base. I am christian and I get pissed when people do un-christian things in the name of my religion.

Terrorism is not just a muslim thing, the irish are catholic and have been committing terrorist attacks for centuries. Yet you do not consider them all to be violent because you know more Irish people and because they are white.

Also, many muslims speak against violence.

Read the thread I created a few seconds ago...you will either enjoy it or turn red with rage and have a stroke. So try to take it easy when you read it.

Any Christian who claims that voting for Democrats is a good thing needs a brain scan. Shall I re-iterate. It says several times in the Bible that homosexuality is a SIN. It also says to protect those who can't protect themselves, people like the Iraqis. Maybe you also missed the part where Jesus, in a bout of righteous anger, overturned the tables at the temple. Then there's the many parts of the Bible where God strikes people dead or has his people go to war against an ungodly nation. Did you sleep through Sunday School or what?

 

[1549]

Any Christian who claims that voting for Democrats is a good thing needs a brain scan. Shall I re-iterate. It says several times in the Bible that homosexuality is a SIN. It also says to protect those who can't protect themselves, people like the Iraqis. Maybe you also missed the part where Jesus, in a bout of righteous anger, overturned the tables at the temple. Then there's the many parts of the Bible where God strikes people dead or has his people go to war against an ungodly nation. Did you sleep through Sunday School or what?

No but I did want to be on my couch watching Hulk Hogan, instead of sitting in sunday school.

I am more of a new testament guy myself. The bible differs greatly between testaments, but I see the old testament as being more symbolic and the new testament being more literal.

I want to clear up the notion that I am telling you what God wants you to do. You can do what you want and believe what you want...that is the beauty of religion. But I got heat for my opinion that conservatism is not christian. What I have said explains where I am coming from, not what you should believe.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

I have to leave for class now, so I am going to be an ass about it and say read Exodus chapter 20. I will post more evidence and give my explanations later in the evening. Check them out some time if you still are interested.

I guess Zondervan left out the 11th commandment in my bible. There isn't a commandment that says thou shalt not own a firearm, vote Republican, or watch the 700 Club. Are you naturally stupid? Or do you have to work at it?

 

[Hobbit]

No but I did want to be on my couch watching Hulk Hogan, instead of sitting in sunday school.

I am more of a new testament guy myself. The bible differs greatly between testaments, but I see the old testament as being more symbolic and the new testament being more literal.

I want to clear up the notion that I am telling you what God wants you to do. You can do what you want and believe what you want...that is the beauty of religion. But I got heat for my opinion that conservatism is not christian. What I have said explains where I am coming from, not what you should believe.

You're cherry picking scriptures to make your point and making sweeping generalizations about how the rest of us are all defying Christianity by being conservatives. If that's not telling me what to do, what is? I find your entire tone insulting.

And you can't pick and choose what parts of the Bible you like and what you don't like. Jesus quoted many parts of the Old Testament and spoke of them as fact, not metaphorical symbolism. If you believe in Jesus, you have to believe in the Old Testament. There's no gray area there, because if you think the Old Testament isn't really true, then Jesus was a liar and not worth worshipping. Also, ever hear of Ananias and Sapphira? They were struck dead in the New Testament. Is that part just symbolic, too?

[side note]See what I'm doing here? Anybody notice? Here is a guy who is using Christianity, his proclaimed religion, to prop up things that I think are decidedly un-Christian. In the name of God, Jesus, and the Bible, he is saying that it is wrong to own guns, vote for Republicans (the main political party that is currently not only not crapping all over the church, but actually listens to the church), or go to war to help others to be free. He is using the same rationale to justify abortion and who knows what else. I think that this is a corruption of the scriptures and a very twisted version of Christianity. Now, according to liberals, this has happened to Muslims, but they aren't doing what I'm doing. Notice how I'm outraged that he would insult me like this and I am vehemently rebuking him with righteous fury. If these 'peaceful' Muslims I hear about would do this, I might be more inclined to believe they actually exist.[/side note]

 

[1549]

Are you naturally stupid? Or do you have to work at it?

Is that what you would have asked Mike Price?

"Its rollin' baby, its rollin"

 

[Abbey Normal]

The actual phrase should be slightly revised: Islam has declared war on Christianity and the Jewish faith.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

Is that what you would have asked Mike Price?

"Its rollin' baby, its rollin"

Touche. Yes it is. Hell, Shula is better anyway and understands our tradition of excellence.

 

[1549]

[side note]See what I'm doing here? Anybody notice? Here is a guy who is using Christianity, his proclaimed religion, to prop up things that I think are decidedly un-Christian. In the name of God, Jesus, and the Bible, he is saying that it is wrong to own guns, vote for Republicans (the main political party that is currently not only not crapping all over the church, but actually listens to the church), or go to war to help others to be free. He is using the same rationale to justify abortion and who knows what else. I think that this is a corruption of the scriptures and a very twisted version of Christianity. Now, according to liberals, this has happened to Muslims, but they aren't doing what I'm doing. Notice how I'm outraged that he would insult me like this and I am vehemently rebuking him with righteous fury. If these 'peaceful' Muslims I hear about would do this, I might be more inclined to believe they actually exist.[/side note]

Note to self: don't start a religious debate.

 

[1549]

Touche. Yes it is. Hell, Shula is better anyway and understands our tradition of excellence.

We may disagree on a lot of things, but lets agree life is best enjoyed with a beer and sports.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

Thank you everyone for your input. I will be using these poll results in a position paper that I am writing. If anyone has a problem with this, let me know.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

We may disagree on a lot of things, but lets agree life is best enjoyed with a beer and sports.

Agreed! ROLL TIDE ROLL!!

 

[Abbey Normal]

Note to self: don't start a religious debate.

1549, I am A Christian, and I don't mind your topic. I think it is interesting and worthy of debate. It is actually refreshing after the string of people who joined here with the obvious intention of just bashing Christianity and belief in God.

 

[Hobbit]

1549, I am A Christian, and I don't mind your topic. I think it is interesting and worthy of debate. It is actually refreshing after the string of people who joined here with the obvious intention of just bashing Christianity and belief in God.

I might have even been more open to it if you had come with a question instead of a mandate. There's a huge difference between "All Christians should do this!" and "Do you think Christians should do this?" One implies condescention and self-righteousness. The other implies curiosity. Now, I would have still vehemently disagreed with you, but it may have saved that poor, ruptured vein in my forehead. I don't take kindly with other people ordering me around in the name of God.

 

[1549]

1549, I am A Christian, and I don't mind your topic. I think it is interesting and worthy of debate. It is actually refreshing after the string of people who joined here with the obvious intention of just bashing Christianity and belief in God.

I am glad you feel that way...but still, I think I am going to avoid religion for a little while.

I need to refuel for a few months :cof:

 

[Hobbit]

I am glad you feel that way...but still, I think I am going to avoid religion for a little while.

I need to refuel for a few months :cof:

You wouldn't burn out so fast if you didn't come flying in at mach 4 with your afterburners at the maximum. Honestly, I'll talk religion with you and I'll even be civil about it, but not when your initial tone is that of a parent scolding a child.

 

[1549]

You wouldn't burn out so fast if you didn't come flying in at mach 4 with your afterburners at the maximum. Honestly, I'll talk religion with you and I'll even be civil about it, but not when your initial tone is that of a parent scolding a child.

The creation of a new thread makes it seem as if I just pulled this one in out of the blue...that was my mistake.

In reality, I was upset about some of the views in this thread; hence the angry tone of my post.

 

[Hobbit]

The creation of a new thread makes it seem as if I just pulled this one in out of the blue...that was my mistake.

In reality, I was upset about some of the views in this thread; hence the angry tone of my post.

Understood, but seriously, condescention is one of the biggest pet peeves on this board. Stating opinion as fact is like hitting a hornet's net with a bat. Mabye you thought it was something else. Maybe you didn't mean to hit it. Fact is, you're still gonna get stung because you just weren't careful enough.

That being said, I'm willing to do a bit of forgiving and push back for the night. Just, be careful.

 

[Abbey Normal]

Understood, but seriously, condescention is one of the biggest pet peeves on this board. Stating opinion as fact is like hitting a hornet's net with a bat.
...

Well put, Hobbit.