Warren and the Divine Right of Capital: Accountable Capitalism Act

[Alexandre Fedorovski]

How do you square this circle: The structure and legal basis of the modern MAGA corporation bears a great deal of resemblance to feudal estates, and this reality is at odds in an era that claims to value democracy over the Divine Right of Kings?

Warren has a plan:

Accountable Capitalism Act - Wikipedia

"The Accountable Capitalism Act, 115th Congress (2017-2018) S. 3348 is a proposed federal bill introduced by Senator Elizabeth Warren in August 2018.

"It would require that employees elect 40% of a board of directors of any corporation with over $1 billion in tax receipts, and that 75% of shareholders and directors must approve any political spending.

"Corporations with revenue over $1 billion would be required to obtain a federal corporate charter.

"The Act contains a 'constituency statute' that would give directors a duty of 'creating a general public benefit' with regard to a corporation's stakeholders, including shareholders, employees, and the environment, and the interests of the enterprise in the long-term.[1]"

The US is among a minority of OECD countries that gives no representation to the workforce (majority) in corporate governance.

For years Warren has claimed "corporations are not people."

Now her Accountable Capitalism Act demands that corporations that claim the legal rights of personhood should be legally required to accept the moral obligations of personhood.

Everything is very simple: an insignificant part of the population, who made their capital by dishonest, and more often, by criminal means, protected their exclusive thieves position with the law that private property is sacred and inviolable

 

[dblack]

Are you a fan of privatization?[IRRELEVANT_MEME]

I'm a fan of limited government. ie not socializing shit in the first place. "Privatization" is usually just a scam whereby government monopolies are handed over to well-connected, rent-seeking businesses. All we really need to do to "privatize" an existing government service is to have the government stop doing it.

 

[daveman]

Nothing works as well as government, eh comrade?

Yeah, let's disband the military and turn everything over to Eric Prince.

Better yet, let's disarm the populace and let government have a monopoly on violence.

 

[daveman]

Protip: If you had facts, logic, and reason on your side, you wouldn't have to put people in mass graves.

Protip: If you had facts, logic, and reason on your side, you wouldn't have to put people in mass graves.

Few killers have filled more mass graves than capitalism

So, to prove how evil capitalism is, you post a graphic showing deaths caused by tyrannical government.

That didn't work out so great for you, did it?

So, to prove how evil capitalism is, you post a graphic showing deaths caused by tyrannical government.

Tyrannical capitalist government, you mean?

"Put on the U2 and The Cranberries and let’s down some green brew folks, it’s that time of year again.

"But while St. Patrick’s Day is cause to celebrate everything Irish-American, it’s also a good time to ponder just why more than a million Irish were forced to leave Ireland while another million were dying of starvation in such a short period of time in the first place.

"The answer, which also explains why millions of children are currently going without enough food in the U.S., has much more to do with market systems than Mother Nature."

EarthRx: The Irish Potato Famine Was Caused by Capitalism, Not a Fungus

Your first item: "Hurricane Katrina (deliberate faulty construction): 1,836"

It's handy when your first item is bullshit. Makes it easier to dismiss the rest as worthless, too.

Oh, look -- yet another leftist afraid of a fictional character's guns in a painting.

You know what's really troubling?

That someone would be stupid enough to vote for Bernie.

 

[Synthaholic]

Nothing works as well as government, eh comrade?

Yeah, let's disband the military and turn everything over to Eric Prince.

Better yet, let's disarm the populace and let government have a monopoly on violence.

Deflectionman

 

[daveman]

Nothing works as well as government, eh comrade?

Yeah, let's disband the military and turn everything over to Eric Prince.

Better yet, let's disarm the populace and let government have a monopoly on violence.

Deflectionman

Deflection? Oh, yes, that's what leftists screech when they have no rational rebuttal.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Everything is very simple: an insignificant part of the population, who made their capital by dishonest, and more often, by criminal means, protected their exclusive thieves position with the law that private property is sacred and inviolable

Railroad sleeping-car king George Pullman knew how loathed he was: he arranged to have his coffin sealed with lead and buried at night in a steel-and-concrete vault 8 feet deep, lest workers desecrate his corpse in revenge for the way he exploited them in life.

Word is my great, great grandpappy designed those cars for that rat bastard, LOL

 

[georgephillip]

How do you square this circle: The structure and legal basis of the modern MAGA corporation bears a great deal of resemblance to feudal estates, and this reality is at odds in an era that claims to value democracy over the Divine Right of Kings?

Warren has a plan:

Accountable Capitalism Act - Wikipedia

"The Accountable Capitalism Act, 115th Congress (2017-2018) S. 3348 is a proposed federal bill introduced by Senator Elizabeth Warren in August 2018.

"It would require that employees elect 40% of a board of directors of any corporation with over $1 billion in tax receipts, and that 75% of shareholders and directors must approve any political spending.

"Corporations with revenue over $1 billion would be required to obtain a federal corporate charter.

"The Act contains a 'constituency statute' that would give directors a duty of 'creating a general public benefit' with regard to a corporation's stakeholders, including shareholders, employees, and the environment, and the interests of the enterprise in the long-term.[1]"

The US is among a minority of OECD countries that gives no representation to the workforce (majority) in corporate governance.

For years Warren has claimed "corporations are not people."

Now her Accountable Capitalism Act demands that corporations that claim the legal rights of personhood should be legally required to accept the moral obligations of personhood.

Everything is very simple: an insignificant part of the population, who made their capital by dishonest, and more often, by criminal means, protected their exclusive thieves position with the law that private property is sacred and inviolable

Everything is very simple: an insignificant part of the population, who made their capital by dishonest, and more often, by criminal means, protected their exclusive thieves position with the law that private property is sacred and inviolable

I'm tempted to suggest the US has a state religion and its name is capitalism:

The Divine Right of Capital by Marjorie Kelly: A Summary

"Today, our worldview has a bias – that stockholders are to be paid as much as possible, while employees are to be paid as little as possible. 'Income for one group is declared good, and income for another group is declared bad.' Nowhere is this more clear than in our financial statements. "Here’s the basic formula you’ll find on financial statements:

"Capital Income + Retained earnings = Revenue – (Employee income + Cost of materials)

"Kelly uses some simple algebra to show that this formula could just as easily be re-written as:

"Employee income + Retained earnings = Revenue – (Capital income + Cost of materials)"

 

[georgephillip]

Are you a fan of privatization?[IRRELEVANT_MEME]

I'm a fan of limited government. ie not socializing shit in the first place. "Privatization" is usually just a scam whereby government monopolies are handed over to well-connected, rent-seeking businesses. All we really need to do to "privatize" an existing government service is to have the government stop doing it.

I'm a fan of limited government. ie not socializing shit in the first place. "Privatization" is usually just a scam whereby government monopolies are handed over to well-connected, rent-seeking businesses. All we really need to do to "privatize" an existing government service is to have the government stop doing it.

Government monopolies function as a fourth factor of production which serve to lower costs of doing business and living. Instead of toll roads, public roads. Instead of a lifetime of student debt, free higher education. Instead of medical bankruptcies, Medicare for All. Profit has its uses, but they are not nearly as plentiful as capitalists believe.

 

[dblack]

Are you a fan of privatization?[IRRELEVANT_MEME]

I'm a fan of limited government. ie not socializing shit in the first place. "Privatization" is usually just a scam whereby government monopolies are handed over to well-connected, rent-seeking businesses. All we really need to do to "privatize" an existing government service is to have the government stop doing it.

I'm a fan of limited government. ie not socializing shit in the first place. "Privatization" is usually just a scam whereby government monopolies are handed over to well-connected, rent-seeking businesses. All we really need to do to "privatize" an existing government service is to have the government stop doing it.

Government monopolies function as a fourth factor of production which serve to lower costs of doing business and living. Instead of toll roads, public roads. Instead of a lifetime of student debt, free higher education. Instead of medical bankruptcies, Medicare for All. Profit has its uses, but they are not nearly as plentiful as capitalists believe.

What is a "fourth factor of production"?

Anyway, for each one of those conveniences, we lose a little bit of freedom - and risk giving too much power to government. I really don't get you folks who are think the solution to the notion that employers have too much power, is too give it to government instead. If things get bad enough at a job, you can quit. You can't quit the government.

 

[Andylusion]

Takers and Makers: Who are the Real Value Creators? - Evonomics
Interesting stuff.

In theory, no income may be judged too high, because in a market economy competition prevents anyone from earning more than he or she deserves. In practice, markets are what economists call imperfect, so prices and wages are often set by the powerful and paid by the weak.

In the prevailing view, prices are set by supply and demand, and any deviation from what is considered the competitive price (based on marginal revenues) must be due to some imperfection which, if removed, will produce the correct distribution of income between actors. The possibility that some activities perpetually earn rent because they are perceived as valuable, while actually blocking the creation of value and/or destroying existing value, is hardly discussed.

Growth is always presumed natural and good. Apparently value growth then as well. I dunno. Avoiding the extremes has always seemed what's logical to me. Growth to keep pace with the population makes sense. Not growth simply because inflation is deemed somehow inevitable or unstoppable. I think growth should diminish as population shrinks, a level of activity (GDP) deemed "sustainable" signaling the reasonable upper bound. Technological advance, on the other hand, is clearly inevitable. Simply replacing older means with new should be considered a wash. A plus if a net gain in decent employment results. A minus if good jobs are lost.

There needs to be something fun incentivising (rewarding) entrepreneurship. It need not be money or power. Many of the most creative and industrious have been poor.They still enjoyed it largely for its own sake. No one needs to be disgustingly rich to the point where they significantly corrupt governments to act on their behalf rather than in the best interests of the people in general. Those they are supposedly accountable to. Being able to vote them out is no longer any threat where they always make out far better by simply doing the bidding of the filthy rich.

That's where we differ.
Government itself, is the corrupting influence.

The people on the left-wing try and pretend that Government is this divine perfect pure group of people, until the evil corruption of business interferes.

That's backwards. And really odd belief system to begin with. When you look at government, how could you look at congress, and think they were pure until business showed up? Where did you get such an idea?

There are a few really good politicians, but most are Epstein types. I don't know where you would even think that Government is good and pure to begin with. Most of those people are involved in all kinds of crap.

But routinely it is government that corrupts business. My favorite example is Microsoft. Before the Microsoft anti-trust investigation by the DOJ... Microsoft never was involved in government. They had no lobbying. No significant donations to anyone. Nothing.

As the DOJ investigation randomly wandered around, trying one claim, then another, then another... Microsoft figured out what they wanted. They wanted money. So Microsoft hired lobbyists, started to wine-and-dine the politicians, started donating to campaigns, and almost like magic... the DOJ faded away, and the lawsuit was closed with barely a slap on the wrist.

Today, Microsoft continues to blow tons of money every year on lobbying.

It's a protection racket, like a mafia deal. And since Microsoft is spending thousands on thousands for protection, they might as well get something for it... so they get favorable legislation.

But you need to grasp which came first. Microsoft did not start lobbying government, and then government went bad. Government was bad, and started hammering on Microsoft until they started paying up. That's how this works. The corrupting factor was government, not business. Business was just influenced by government.

As previously made clear, they both fail together.. Too much money does what? CORRUPTS! Right. Sorry, the briber(Microsoft) gets to wear no whiter hat than the bribee.

And I'm telling you that if you flipped that standard around on yourself, you would have a freakin melt down.

If you were approached by the mafia, and they said you needed to either pay them $500 a month for "protection" against fire, and you already had your house burn down "mysteriously".... you would start paying them. We know this because it happened all the time in mafia controlled areas.

Now if you paid up, and your competition didn't, and the mafia ran those places out of business, your business would start making some good money.

Then in comes some moron, and says "Your hat is no whiter than the mafia" you would never accept such a statement about yourself, when you are the victim, not the perpetrator. You didn't go to the mafia, and say you'll pay them to make other people go out of business. You didn't initiate this. It was never part of your business plan.

But somehow, when the standard never applies to you, it's easy for you to condemn others, isn't it?

Nah, you are wrong. You are full of crap sir. Utter crap.

 

[Andylusion]

I knew a guy

It is the product of a tiny mind, with little knowledge, that they cut an entire post full of documented evidence, and focus on one specific personal example.

If this is the limit on your ability to discuss the topic, then you have zero ability. You are effectively admitting to everyone on this forum, that you lost, and that I was right.

Thanks for stopping by.

 

[Andylusion]

I think many Americans are confused about who creates value in this economic system.

That's the goal of your propaganda campaign, isn't it?

That's the goal of your propaganda campaign, isn't it?

NAKED KEYNESIANISM: Ernesto Screpanti on Marx's Labor Theory of Value and The 'New Interpretation'

When a wealthy minority appropriates and distributes a surplus produced by the majority, social goals like liberty, fraternity, and equality are undermined, no?

Then explain Venezuela again.

All the wealthy people left Venezuela. But all the labor is still there.

If you are right, and the labor creates wealth, and the rich people just horde it... then explain Venezuela? All rich people left. All the labor is still there. Why isn't Venezuela now leading the US in wealth? They have all the labor, and no capitalists. They should be the most wealthy people on the face of the planet.

So what's going on? Why is your system not working?

When a wealthy minority appropriates and distributes a surplus produced by the majority, social goals like liberty, fraternity, and equality are undermined, no?

Then explain Venezuela again.

All the wealthy people left Venezuela. But all the labor is still there.

If you are right, and the labor creates wealth, and the rich people just horde it... then explain Venezuela? All rich people left. All the labor is still there. Why isn't Venezuela now leading the US in wealth? They have all the labor, and no capitalists. They should be the most wealthy people on the face of the planet.

What happens when the Greatest Purveyor of Violence in the World prevents a small minority of Venezuelans from distributing the surplus they have appropriated from their productive majority?

The rich parasites leave the country, as thousands of Venezuelans die from the consequences of illegal economic sanctions:

Economist Jeffrey Sachs: U.S. Sanctions Have Devastated Venezuela & Killed Over 40,000 Since 2017 | Democracy Now!

"It started with sanctions in 2017 that prevented, essentially, the country from accessing international capital markets and the oil company from restructuring its loans.

"That put Venezuela into a hyperinflation.

"That was the utter collapse.

"Oil earnings plummeted.

"The earnings that are used to buy food and medicine collapsed. That’s when the social, humanitarian crisis went spiraling out of control.

"And then, in this year, with this idea, very naive, very stupid, in my view, that there would be this self-proclaimed president, which was all choreographed with the United States very, very closely, another round of even tighter sanctions, essentially confiscating the earnings and the assets of the Venezuelan government, took place."

It's interesting to me.... that every single country that is based on Capitalist Free-market ideals, is wealthy.... and every country that is based on Socialist ideals, is impoverished and dying....

Yet isn't it amazing that regardless, it is somehow always those Free-market Capitalists that are to blame for the Socialists dying.

Why is that? Can you explain to me, how if the Capitalists are to blame..... how is it that every country overwhelmingly flooded with Capitalists has food to spare, and higher standards of living for even the poorest people, and at the same time every country almost devoid of Capitalists, has starvation and people living in utter poverty?

If you were right, and it was the evil Capitalists, that caused all the suffering in the world.... shouldn't the US be facing the most starvation and impoverishment? Shouldn't we see floods of people going to Venezuela where there are barely any capitalists left?

Yet somehow.... just somehow.... it's still the fault of Capitalists.... Just amazing how that works...

 

[georgephillip]

Are you a fan of privatization?[IRRELEVANT_MEME]

I'm a fan of limited government. ie not socializing shit in the first place. "Privatization" is usually just a scam whereby government monopolies are handed over to well-connected, rent-seeking businesses. All we really need to do to "privatize" an existing government service is to have the government stop doing it.

I'm a fan of limited government. ie not socializing shit in the first place. "Privatization" is usually just a scam whereby government monopolies are handed over to well-connected, rent-seeking businesses. All we really need to do to "privatize" an existing government service is to have the government stop doing it.

Government monopolies function as a fourth factor of production which serve to lower costs of doing business and living. Instead of toll roads, public roads. Instead of a lifetime of student debt, free higher education. Instead of medical bankruptcies, Medicare for All. Profit has its uses, but they are not nearly as plentiful as capitalists believe.

What is a "fourth factor of production"?

Anyway, for each one of those conveniences, we lose a little bit of freedom - and risk giving too much power to government. I really don't get you folks who are think the solution to the notion that employers have too much power, is too give it to government instead. If things get bad enough at a job, you can quit. You can't quit the government.

What is a "fourth factor of production"?

Anyway, for each one of those conveniences, we lose a little bit of freedom - and risk giving too much power to government. I really don't get you folks who are think the solution to the notion that employers have too much power, is too give it to government instead. If things get bad enough at a job, you can quit. You can't quit the government.

People quit the government all the time, just ask John Bolton.

Tollbooth Trump | Michael Hudson

"America’s first professor of economics at the first business school – Simon Patten, at the University of Pennsylvania’s Wharton School – said that public infrastructure is a fourth factor of production.

"But it’s not like labor, land, and capital, because the role of public infrastructure is not to make a profit.

"It’s role is to provide public services that are basic for the economy’s living standards and capacity to produce, and to provide these at a subsidized rate.

"That’s how America got rich and came to dominate the world industrial economy: by publicly subsidizing its basic costs: Low-cost roads, and low-cost other infrastructure.

"The government bore these costs so that public infrastructure would subsidize the economy to lower the cost of doing business."

 

[dblack]

People quit the government all the time, just ask John Bolton.

Under socialism, government is the only game in town. The only way you can avoid it is to get the hell out.

I wonder if you can actually address this point, or if you'll just keep ignoring it and posting irrelevant memes and quotes from your propaganda stockpile? I'll bet on the latter.

 

[georgephillip]

I think many Americans are confused about who creates value in this economic system.

That's the goal of your propaganda campaign, isn't it?

That's the goal of your propaganda campaign, isn't it?

NAKED KEYNESIANISM: Ernesto Screpanti on Marx's Labor Theory of Value and The 'New Interpretation'

When a wealthy minority appropriates and distributes a surplus produced by the majority, social goals like liberty, fraternity, and equality are undermined, no?

Then explain Venezuela again.

All the wealthy people left Venezuela. But all the labor is still there.

If you are right, and the labor creates wealth, and the rich people just horde it... then explain Venezuela? All rich people left. All the labor is still there. Why isn't Venezuela now leading the US in wealth? They have all the labor, and no capitalists. They should be the most wealthy people on the face of the planet.

So what's going on? Why is your system not working?

When a wealthy minority appropriates and distributes a surplus produced by the majority, social goals like liberty, fraternity, and equality are undermined, no?

Then explain Venezuela again.

All the wealthy people left Venezuela. But all the labor is still there.

If you are right, and the labor creates wealth, and the rich people just horde it... then explain Venezuela? All rich people left. All the labor is still there. Why isn't Venezuela now leading the US in wealth? They have all the labor, and no capitalists. They should be the most wealthy people on the face of the planet.

What happens when the Greatest Purveyor of Violence in the World prevents a small minority of Venezuelans from distributing the surplus they have appropriated from their productive majority?

The rich parasites leave the country, as thousands of Venezuelans die from the consequences of illegal economic sanctions:

Economist Jeffrey Sachs: U.S. Sanctions Have Devastated Venezuela & Killed Over 40,000 Since 2017 | Democracy Now!

"It started with sanctions in 2017 that prevented, essentially, the country from accessing international capital markets and the oil company from restructuring its loans.

"That put Venezuela into a hyperinflation.

"That was the utter collapse.

"Oil earnings plummeted.

"The earnings that are used to buy food and medicine collapsed. That’s when the social, humanitarian crisis went spiraling out of control.

"And then, in this year, with this idea, very naive, very stupid, in my view, that there would be this self-proclaimed president, which was all choreographed with the United States very, very closely, another round of even tighter sanctions, essentially confiscating the earnings and the assets of the Venezuelan government, took place."

It's interesting to me.... that every single country that is based on Capitalist Free-market ideals, is wealthy.... and every country that is based on Socialist ideals, is impoverished and dying....

Yet isn't it amazing that regardless, it is somehow always those Free-market Capitalists that are to blame for the Socialists dying.

Why is that? Can you explain to me, how if the Capitalists are to blame..... how is it that every country overwhelmingly flooded with Capitalists has food to spare, and higher standards of living for even the poorest people, and at the same time every country almost devoid of Capitalists, has starvation and people living in utter poverty?

If you were right, and it was the evil Capitalists, that caused all the suffering in the world.... shouldn't the US be facing the most starvation and impoverishment? Shouldn't we see floods of people going to Venezuela where there are barely any capitalists left?

Yet somehow.... just somehow.... it's still the fault of Capitalists.... Just amazing how that works...

t's interesting to me.... that every single country that is based on Capitalist Free-market ideals, is wealthy.... and every country that is based on Socialist ideals, is impoverished and dying....

Have you considered the possibility that is due to the amount of violence capitalists inflict on civilian populations around the globe? Maybe the Kurds could help you understand?

 

[georgephillip]

People quit the government all the time, just ask John Bolton.

Under socialism, government is the only game in town. The only way you can avoid it is to get the hell out.

I wonder if you can actually address this point, or if you'll just keep ignoring it and posting irrelevant memes and quotes from your propaganda stockpile? I'll bet on the latter.

I wonder if you can actually address this point, or if you'll just keep ignoring it and posting irrelevant memes and quotes from your propaganda stockpile? I'll bet on the latter.

As I've pointed out on more than one occasion, socialism means society controls the means of production; government is one option, but so are worker self controlled enterprises.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

That's the goal of your propaganda campaign, isn't it?

That's the goal of your propaganda campaign, isn't it?

NAKED KEYNESIANISM: Ernesto Screpanti on Marx's Labor Theory of Value and The 'New Interpretation'

When a wealthy minority appropriates and distributes a surplus produced by the majority, social goals like liberty, fraternity, and equality are undermined, no?

Then explain Venezuela again.

All the wealthy people left Venezuela. But all the labor is still there.

If you are right, and the labor creates wealth, and the rich people just horde it... then explain Venezuela? All rich people left. All the labor is still there. Why isn't Venezuela now leading the US in wealth? They have all the labor, and no capitalists. They should be the most wealthy people on the face of the planet.

So what's going on? Why is your system not working?

When a wealthy minority appropriates and distributes a surplus produced by the majority, social goals like liberty, fraternity, and equality are undermined, no?

Then explain Venezuela again.

All the wealthy people left Venezuela. But all the labor is still there.

If you are right, and the labor creates wealth, and the rich people just horde it... then explain Venezuela? All rich people left. All the labor is still there. Why isn't Venezuela now leading the US in wealth? They have all the labor, and no capitalists. They should be the most wealthy people on the face of the planet.

What happens when the Greatest Purveyor of Violence in the World prevents a small minority of Venezuelans from distributing the surplus they have appropriated from their productive majority?

The rich parasites leave the country, as thousands of Venezuelans die from the consequences of illegal economic sanctions:

Economist Jeffrey Sachs: U.S. Sanctions Have Devastated Venezuela & Killed Over 40,000 Since 2017 | Democracy Now!

"It started with sanctions in 2017 that prevented, essentially, the country from accessing international capital markets and the oil company from restructuring its loans.

"That put Venezuela into a hyperinflation.

"That was the utter collapse.

"Oil earnings plummeted.

"The earnings that are used to buy food and medicine collapsed. That’s when the social, humanitarian crisis went spiraling out of control.

"And then, in this year, with this idea, very naive, very stupid, in my view, that there would be this self-proclaimed president, which was all choreographed with the United States very, very closely, another round of even tighter sanctions, essentially confiscating the earnings and the assets of the Venezuelan government, took place."

It's interesting to me.... that every single country that is based on Capitalist Free-market ideals, is wealthy.... and every country that is based on Socialist ideals, is impoverished and dying....

Yet isn't it amazing that regardless, it is somehow always those Free-market Capitalists that are to blame for the Socialists dying.

Why is that? Can you explain to me, how if the Capitalists are to blame..... how is it that every country overwhelmingly flooded with Capitalists has food to spare, and higher standards of living for even the poorest people, and at the same time every country almost devoid of Capitalists, has starvation and people living in utter poverty?

If you were right, and it was the evil Capitalists, that caused all the suffering in the world.... shouldn't the US be facing the most starvation and impoverishment? Shouldn't we see floods of people going to Venezuela where there are barely any capitalists left?

Yet somehow.... just somehow.... it's still the fault of Capitalists.... Just amazing how that works...

t's interesting to me.... that every single country that is based on Capitalist Free-market ideals, is wealthy.... and every country that is based on Socialist ideals, is impoverished and dying....

Have you considered the possibility that is due to the amount of violence capitalists inflict on civilian populations around the globe? Maybe the Kurds could help you understand?

The Turks are killing Kurds because.....capitalism?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

People quit the government all the time, just ask John Bolton.

Under socialism, government is the only game in town. The only way you can avoid it is to get the hell out.

I wonder if you can actually address this point, or if you'll just keep ignoring it and posting irrelevant memes and quotes from your propaganda stockpile? I'll bet on the latter.

I wonder if you can actually address this point, or if you'll just keep ignoring it and posting irrelevant memes and quotes from your propaganda stockpile? I'll bet on the latter.

As I've pointed out on more than one occasion, socialism means society controls the means of production; government is one option, but so are worker self controlled enterprises.

but so are worker self controlled enterprises.

The workers ran United Airlines, how did that work out?

 

[georgephillip]

People quit the government all the time, just ask John Bolton.

Under socialism, government is the only game in town. The only way you can avoid it is to get the hell out.

I wonder if you can actually address this point, or if you'll just keep ignoring it and posting irrelevant memes and quotes from your propaganda stockpile? I'll bet on the latter.

I wonder if you can actually address this point, or if you'll just keep ignoring it and posting irrelevant memes and quotes from your propaganda stockpile? I'll bet on the latter.

As I've pointed out on more than one occasion, socialism means society controls the means of production; government is one option, but so are worker self controlled enterprises.

but so are worker self controlled enterprises.

The workers ran United Airlines, how did that work out?

but so are worker self controlled enterprises.

The workers ran United Airlines, how did that work out?

Better than Enron.