Well now! Surprise surprise...

[Cold Fusion38]

i guy on my route gets a paper that deals in advertising,its what he is into.....it has a postal section in there....so i sneek a look at it when i see it....and it says that advertising through the mail is right now pretty lucrative,to the advertiser, compared to the other mediums....the DVR has put a big damper on TV ads.....the radio gets changed during commercials....and well newspapers,they are dying......but everyone has to look through their mail.....and believe it or not....MANY things catch peoples eyes and they will investigate...leading, according to this paper,SALES of the product advertised....the Tuesday food ads generate sales in the markets....if i dont have one for some of these people....they want to know why....

I get a ton of catalogs, browse through them, and if I find something I like go online and wait for FREE SHIPPING on the item. It's the only way to go.

I usually give my mail carrier at least a $10 tip at Christmas. She's a woman who goes out of her way to make sure packages get placed INSIDE our secure building and not left outside by the mailboxes. That's very important because packages left out in the open are an invitation for theft. This year I'm going to up it to $20 because she's a single mom with 3 kids and needs it more than I do this time of year. I have the utmost respect for mail carriers. I've always found them to be dedicated and friendly.

and i will tell ya this Maggs.....when tipped the carrier will go out of their way for those people....i saved one guy one year a 2500.00 fine from the IRS,he owned a lucrative mail order business,it had to do with the date on his return,there was a mistake of some kind with the date....i told him who to go see,he did, got it stamped properly,and he said i saved him 25 hundred bucks.....and i told him who to see to ship cheaper....he did said i saved him more money....never got a tip from this fucker....but yet a Mobile Home Park i delivered with old retired folks living day to day on their monthly cks...,they would give me at least 500 bucks every Christmas,20 here,10 there...just because i would stop and talk to them....i would try and give the money back saying you need this and they would not hear of it.....they would bake cookies and all kinds of things just for me.....i was moved by these people...picked up stamps for them,mailed packages....went out of my way for these people......

I've delivered pizza a few times through the years.......College guys come up with AT LEAST a couple extra $s.....usually in quarters.....Deliver to the NICE homes a $30-50 order get the check rounded up to the nearest $ I shit you not......CHEAP MOTHER FUCKERS!! You know your DD provides a SERVICE.....They do so at risk to their LIVES when it snows........DD puts HUGE wear and tear on the car.....Gas goes up and they have to put more of their tips in the gas tank.........Oh and you WILL get a reputation after a while take that however you will.

 

[antagon]

the laws are presumptions for arguements and can be defied with no magic, no problem. the point is that theyre stated to level the basis for theories. the laws are all propositions of rational behavior, or genralized consequences.

youve got a theory that government cant create wealth. its not any sort of natural law of economics like the law of demand. once youve qualified it with a few details you could argue your theory, but against the likes of john maynard keynes who would have stressed the need for public spending, in fact deficit spending during contractions to stimulate the economy.

id caution against full-tilt keynesian econ, but absolute/extreme takes like yours on the role of government in an economy fail to glean any of its benefits. begs questions of track-record and merit, even complete consideration.

alas, maybe insult isnt the the best way to go, but i aimed to prove that if your outfit reflected your malpractice, that you could well have big red shoes and a horn in your nose.

That Which is Seen, and That Which is Not Seen; by Frederic Bastiat

Economics in One Lesson

Governments cannot create wealth, one of the many things Keynes got wrong.

im not tryin to read two books, buddy. im not quite out to defend keynes either. without qualifying ur theory, like what you mean by 'create' and 'wealth', its frail.

my case..

picture a barter commune, picture a government striking a currency. entre nous wealth! government creates wealth that way.

how do you mean 'create' and what do you mean 'wealth'?

ps. thank you for the discussion, man, but its sleepytime for me. conservatism by my standard, is still a public-private partnership. laizez-faire nihilism and capitalism are vastly different how ive ever seen it.

 

[Foxfyre]

If you are going to make shit up, go big!!

Obama can claim the stimulus created or saved EVERY job in the United States it is exactly the same as saying he saved or created 2 million jobs. . It is a bullshit metric that cannot be measured. I invented a whole world in my sleep last night, that doesn't mean that it is real. There is no such thing as a saved job.

But maybe in Obama world, it is the thought that counts, right? He wanted to create jobs!!! His intentions were good!!!

If two banks merge, inevitably there are layoffs as the two attempt to combine personnel resources. Joe's job at one desk might get the ax, while Mary's job right across the aisle from Joe might be "saved." That happens all the time in the private sector.

In the public sector, a "saved" job is also one that doesn't get the ax because of budget constraints. If the total unemployment number was theoretically exactly 1,000,000, a "saved job" would make the number 999,999. It's a no-brainer.

But it doesn't work like that Maggie. The free market generally works it out laizze faire - one company downsizing or merging and becoming more streamlined either a) makes room for another company to take the leftover business and/or b) generates more productivity and activity that has a stimulating effect on the economy surrounding it.

When the government creates a new government job, it means $40,000 or $60,000 or whatever amount that has to come out of the private sector while generating no marketable product and generating no economic activity. Even if the government hires folks in the private sector to do a project, it is still draining monies from the private sector for plans, materials, transportation, cost of the contract, etc. When government provides only essential services that cannot be done more efficiently and effectively in the private sector, the benefit to the infrastructure or orderly working of society mostly or fully offsets the cost to the private sector. When government assumes responsibilities best left to the private sector, the private sector will always be the worse off for it.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

the laws are presumptions for arguements and can be defied with no magic, no problem. the point is that theyre stated to level the basis for theories. the laws are all propositions of rational behavior, or genralized consequences.

youve got a theory that government cant create wealth. its not any sort of natural law of economics like the law of demand. once youve qualified it with a few details you could argue your theory, but against the likes of john maynard keynes who would have stressed the need for public spending, in fact deficit spending during contractions to stimulate the economy.

id caution against full-tilt keynesian econ, but absolute/extreme takes like yours on the role of government in an economy fail to glean any of its benefits. begs questions of track-record and merit, even complete consideration.

alas, maybe insult isnt the the best way to go, but i aimed to prove that if your outfit reflected your malpractice, that you could well have big red shoes and a horn in your nose.

That Which is Seen, and That Which is Not Seen; by Frederic Bastiat

Economics in One Lesson

Governments cannot create wealth, one of the many things Keynes got wrong.

Economics in ONE lesson? If you can do that then I would like to see the second in the series. Quantum Mechanics in ONE lesson. The fact is trying guide or even understand where our econ is going is a lot like hearding cats.......Very messy, lots of blood, and rarely the desired effect.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

the laws are presumptions for arguements and can be defied with no magic, no problem. the point is that theyre stated to level the basis for theories. the laws are all propositions of rational behavior, or genralized consequences.

youve got a theory that government cant create wealth. its not any sort of natural law of economics like the law of demand. once youve qualified it with a few details you could argue your theory, but against the likes of john maynard keynes who would have stressed the need for public spending, in fact deficit spending during contractions to stimulate the economy.

id caution against full-tilt keynesian econ, but absolute/extreme takes like yours on the role of government in an economy fail to glean any of its benefits. begs questions of track-record and merit, even complete consideration.

alas, maybe insult isnt the the best way to go, but i aimed to prove that if your outfit reflected your malpractice, that you could well have big red shoes and a horn in your nose.

That Which is Seen, and That Which is Not Seen; by Frederic Bastiat

Economics in One Lesson

Governments cannot create wealth, one of the many things Keynes got wrong.

im not tryin to read two books, buddy. im not quite out to defend keynes either. without qualifying ur theory, like what you mean by 'create' and 'wealth', its frail.

my case..

picture a barter commune, picture a government striking a currency. entre nous wealth! government creates wealth that way.

how do you mean 'create' and what do you mean 'wealth'?

ps. thank you for the discussion, man, but its sleepytime for me. conservatism by my standard, is still a public-private partnership. laizez-faire nihilism and capitalism are vastly different how ive ever seen it.

Printing money doesn't create wealth either.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

the laws are presumptions for arguements and can be defied with no magic, no problem. the point is that theyre stated to level the basis for theories. the laws are all propositions of rational behavior, or genralized consequences.

youve got a theory that government cant create wealth. its not any sort of natural law of economics like the law of demand. once youve qualified it with a few details you could argue your theory, but against the likes of john maynard keynes who would have stressed the need for public spending, in fact deficit spending during contractions to stimulate the economy.

id caution against full-tilt keynesian econ, but absolute/extreme takes like yours on the role of government in an economy fail to glean any of its benefits. begs questions of track-record and merit, even complete consideration.

alas, maybe insult isnt the the best way to go, but i aimed to prove that if your outfit reflected your malpractice, that you could well have big red shoes and a horn in your nose.

That Which is Seen, and That Which is Not Seen; by Frederic Bastiat

Economics in One Lesson

Governments cannot create wealth, one of the many things Keynes got wrong.

Economics in ONE lesson? If you can do that then I would like to see the second in the series. Quantum Mechanics in ONE lesson. The fact is trying guide or even understand where our econ is going is a lot like hearding cats.......Very messy, lots of blood, and rarely the desired effect.

Yes, make fun of the title rather than address the points made.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

OK lets do this. we had 30 years for
"Reaganomics" to work.......HAS IT.....Do we have fewer or more jobs? Well lets just say it didn;t work since ALL the factories were built OVERSEAS employing people OTHER THAN AMERICANS......................I say FUCK it give the ultra wealthy ALL the money, get rid of EVERY. REGULATION, they pay ZERO taxes......Would Ronnie leap out of the grave and start dancing? I don;t know but I do know that it wouldn't create any jobs in AMERICA for AMERICANS.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

Anyone who thinks Econ is that simple is a rather simple guy himself.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Anyone who thinks Econ is that simple is a rather simple guy himself.

Anyone who thinks the government can create wealth is wrong.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

KK tell me does the money EVAPORATE right after they spend it or does it CONTINUE to be spent OVER and OVER being taxed over and over. You just don't understand how simple it is!

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

KK tell me does the money EVAPORATE right after they spend it or does it CONTINUE to be spent OVER and OVER being taxed over and over. You just don't understand how simple it is!

You just don't understand that you don't create real wealth by taking from some and giving to others.

 

[antagon]

That Which is Seen, and That Which is Not Seen; by Frederic Bastiat

Economics in One Lesson

Governments cannot create wealth, one of the many things Keynes got wrong.

im not tryin to read two books, buddy. im not quite out to defend keynes either. without qualifying ur theory, like what you mean by 'create' and 'wealth', its frail.

my case..

picture a barter commune, picture a government striking a currency. entre nous wealth! government creates wealth that way.

how do you mean 'create' and what do you mean 'wealth'?

ps. thank you for the discussion, man, but its sleepytime for me. conservatism by my standard, is still a public-private partnership. laizez-faire nihilism and capitalism are vastly different how ive ever seen it.

Printing money doesn't create wealth either.

your universe is too absolute, kevin. leaves your angle obtuse.

in a barter system there's supply and demand, but not enough liquidity to affect capitalism, whereby wealth is realised through supply and demand.

id argue that the same is the case in a $17,000,000,000,000 contraction.

that puts my simple model into modern perspective, but liquidity and currency arent the only holes government can fill in a contraction, or roles its expected to play in a capitalistic market.

 

[antagon]

KK tell me does the money EVAPORATE right after they spend it or does it CONTINUE to be spent OVER and OVER being taxed over and over. You just don't understand how simple it is!

there is a block, i suspect.

its not alone that the money is spent, but that as money changes hands in certain transactions, its actually multiplied. 'created' if you will. amazing, but a very fundamental point of capitalism that the kev feels cant be facilitated by government.

curious. macroeconomics is largely a study of how to facilitate capitalism initself directed at government.

 

[Immanuel]

I wouldn't object to a higher rate for business mail. Seems like the bulk of my mail is unsolicited business mailings. Since the government is charging more because of costs, why do I have to pay more for junk mail?

Problem is that higher postal rates paid by corporations means higher costs for you and I so in the long run you and I are paying the higher rates.

I say just make junk mail illegal!!

Too bad doing so would actually be a violation of the rights of the corporation.

Immie

name one country that has lower postal rates than us....
and "Direct Mail Advertising" is a more effective way to advertise than the other mediums.....certainly more effective than TV, Radio and Newspaper.....right now might be the most effective way....

No offense to our resident postal carrier, but junk mail is nothing more than land fill and nearly thirty years ago I worked for a Direct Mailing company.

And I respect the Postal Service for the low cost delivery. That is not the point. The point is that the vast majority of junk mail is unsolicited and bound for the land fill.

Immie

 

[Gunny]

Reports from journalists and the Government Accountability Office last month about problems with the data on Recovery.gov cast doubt on the site’s claim that more than 640,000 jobs had been created or saved by the Obama administration’s American Recovery and Reinvestment Act. Meanwhile Obama upped the ante, putting the figure at more than 1 million. On Nov. 12, for example, in announcing this month’s jobs summit, he said that the stimulus had “created and saved more than a million jobs.”

Now some good news for the White House: According to the Congressional Budget Office, the actual number may be more than twice what Recovery.gov says, and as much as 50 percent more than what Obama has been saying. The nonpartisan agency found that:

CBO, Nov. 30: n the third quarter of calendar year 2009, an additional 600,000 to 1.6 million people were employed in the United States, and real (inflation-adjusted) gross domestic product was 1.2 percent to 3.2 percent higher, than would have been the case in the absence of ARRA.

Read ----> Stimulus Jobs, Re-revisited | FactCheck.org

I smell books cooking.

 

[antagon]

lucky you. my nose is clogged up by the fairy-dust.

 

[Harry Dresden]

I get a ton of catalogs, browse through them, and if I find something I like go online and wait for FREE SHIPPING on the item. It's the only way to go.

I usually give my mail carrier at least a $10 tip at Christmas. She's a woman who goes out of her way to make sure packages get placed INSIDE our secure building and not left outside by the mailboxes. That's very important because packages left out in the open are an invitation for theft. This year I'm going to up it to $20 because she's a single mom with 3 kids and needs it more than I do this time of year. I have the utmost respect for mail carriers. I've always found them to be dedicated and friendly.

and i will tell ya this Maggs.....when tipped the carrier will go out of their way for those people....i saved one guy one year a 2500.00 fine from the IRS,he owned a lucrative mail order business,it had to do with the date on his return,there was a mistake of some kind with the date....i told him who to go see,he did, got it stamped properly,and he said i saved him 25 hundred bucks.....and i told him who to see to ship cheaper....he did said i saved him more money....never got a tip from this fucker....but yet a Mobile Home Park i delivered with old retired folks living day to day on their monthly cks...,they would give me at least 500 bucks every Christmas,20 here,10 there...just because i would stop and talk to them....i would try and give the money back saying you need this and they would not hear of it.....they would bake cookies and all kinds of things just for me.....i was moved by these people...picked up stamps for them,mailed packages....went out of my way for these people......

Your one of the good ones Harry. Hope you have a great tip season.

this year i wont....i am now in the Anaheim Hills....rich people(or people who think they are) for the most part....dont tip much.....

 

[saveliberty]

That website has no idea what is going on. Look toward the middle on the right side where they show overview of funding at a total of $237.8b. Then at the top they show funds awarded at $158.7b. It doesn't add up.

The whole program is poorly run. There are only 9,173 projects 50% or more completed out of 56,446 projects (16%). 21,881 are not even started (39%).

Recovery.gov

 

[Cold Fusion38]

KK tell me does the money EVAPORATE right after they spend it or does it CONTINUE to be spent OVER and OVER being taxed over and over. You just don't understand how simple it is!

You just don't understand that you don't create real wealth by taking from some and giving to others.

Wow do you get your talking points from bumper stickers, Palin, or straight from God?

 

[SFC Ollie]

Really? Tell it to the astronauts, who wouldn't have their jobs were it not for the multi-billion dollar government program to get to the moon in 10 years. Tell it to the tens of thousands of people who work in private sector jobs related to space science. Tell it to the tens of thousands of people who work for businesses and contractors maintaining the interstate highway system.

All at the expense of other jobs that would have been created by the private sector, which by the way is where real wealth is created. Public jobs are a drain on the economy, rather than a benefit.

Um HMM YEAH I guess all the "SERVICE SECTOR" jobs which are the only jobs we have ADDED since Reagan don't count? So let me spell it our.....Money spent on public works projects SUPPORT other jobs. The money isn't dolled out and then VAPORIZED it is SPENT at other places.....Like RETAIL, Restaurant, and countless other PRIVATE sector jobs. Maybe it means that the diner down the road from a Federal Interstate construction site increases their business to PRE-CRASH #s which means that the waitress who was holding down an EMPTY restaurant now has PATRONS to serve.....She takes her TIPS and buys her kids new clothes or a new TV.......Guess what RETAIL....(and I would say manufacturing jobs but we have none left in America)....jobs are increased. Then those retail workers may go out to dinner a bit more often.........



THIS IS THE FACT THAT YOU ALL WANT TO IGNORE!!!!

There are all kinds of manufacturing jobs in America. I worked in manufacturing when I retired, My son worked in manufacturing until he was laid off 6 weeks ago. I recently bought a new pots and pans set made in the USA. I have also bought a Pizza cutter made in the USA Among other things. The manufacturing is there but you pay more for the products.