What makes arguing with liberals so frustrating #1

[Oddball]

Bfgrn is really rtard, isn't he?

No. He spells and punctuates too well to be classified as a rtard. But he is either one of USMB's most dishonest posters or he is so ideologically brainwashed that he often cannot distinguish between truth and fiction.

There is probably a pretty good reason he didn't provide a link for his Arthur Brooks reference however, as Brooks, who has done the most exhaustive and comprehensive study on the subject to date that I am aware of in no way suggested there is little or no difference between conservatives and liberals in charitable giving. I have read the books, the reviews, and the commentaries on those studies, and, while there are individual exceptions of course, he was pretty adament that conservatives overall are more generous than liberals overall in ALL categories of charity except one. They are more charitable when it comes to giving of their personal wealth, their life's work, their time, their talent, and their blood.

In the one area in which liberals are more generous than conservatives is that liberals are more generous in giving other people's money via taxes and government. Conservatives generally object to a lot of that and with good reason.

The whole system is based on other people's money.

Example, your congressman gets to keep his job by bringing other people's money (in one form or another) home to his district.

Foxie was, of course, talking about the completely contorted progressive/socialist POV on what constitutes "charity".

But you knew that and just needed to toss in an "everybody does it" to distract form the fact.

 

[Vast LWC]

The don't do it for a tax write off, taxes go WAY up when you incorporate. They do it to protect their personal assets. It's a limitation of liability.

There are many forms of incorporation.

For instance, Incorporation is required for obtaining tax-exempt status from the Internal Revenue Service for various non-profits and charities.

Therefore, many people do in fact incorporate for a tax write-off, but I digress:

This is very true:

It's a limitation of liability.

And it's why most people who consider corporations to be inherently evil feel the way they do.

A corporation allows investors to obtain a level of separation from the law, allowing them to profit from endangering or injuring others with limited liability to themselves.

And so, while the motive of a corporation is not necessarily evil, it is in fact generally based on profit and profit only, no matter what the consequences.

The only time a corporation even pays attention to the damage it is doing is if they are threatened financially or legally due to that damage.

Which is the main reasons why liberals favor more corporate regulation, because without said regulation there is no reason for corporations not to cause harm to others, and to the property of others, in the hunt for profit.

 

[Vast LWC]

The left demonizes anything that gets in their way. Anything that interferes with their trampling of individual rights, anything that points out the similarities between their ideology and the truly brutal and repugnant tyrannies that share the same ideology are demonized.

I had stepped away for a while after you asked me to show you specific lies you made.

Now that I'm back, it's so fortunate that you have suddenly spouted some that I can point out.

This entire quoted paragraph is utter bullshit.

Yes, koshergirl, every single person on the left just waits with bated breath for their next opportunity to "trample individual rights". And when anyone mentions anything about NOT "trampling individual rights", everyone on the left just stands right up and "demonizes" them.

From reading this one paragraph, one can only conclude that you are an evil, nasty hatemonger who spreads propaganda and lies for a living, or that you're a paranoid schizophrenic. Which is it I wonder?

 

[gallantwarrior]

I see this over and over. Conservatives are for limited government.

WHEN? It never happens. Conservatives are only for limiting ONE thing in government; liberals and Democrats.

Talk about a simplistic comment.

 

[koshergrl]

The left demonizes anything that gets in their way. Anything that interferes with their trampling of individual rights, anything that points out the similarities between their ideology and the truly brutal and repugnant tyrannies that share the same ideology are demonized.

I had stepped away for a while after you asked me to show you specific lies you made.

Now that I'm back, it's so fortunate that you have suddenly spouted some that I can point out.

This entire quoted paragraph is utter bullshit.

Yes, koshergirl, every single person on the left just waits with bated breath for their next opportunity to "trample individual rights". And when anyone mentions anything about NOT "trampling individual rights", everyone on the left just stands right up and "demonizes" them.

From reading this one paragraph, one can only conclude that you are an evil, nasty hatemonger who spreads propaganda and lies for a living, or that you're a paranoid schizophrenic. Which is it I wonder?

Lol..as I knew, you had absolutely nothing. Except your contention that a difference of opinion = lying.

Another extremist who doesn't know the definition of the words they like to use...words like "truth" "lie" "opinion" "fact" "debate" "proof".

 

[Bfgrn]

Liberalism is the antithesis of tyranny.

how on earth would that be possible given that a tyranny requires a big liberal government???????

conservative governemnt cant be tyranical since the government is by definition limited. This is exactly 100% why our founders gave us a conservative limited government. Welcome to your very first lesson in American History.

WHEN have conservatives EVER created limited government? The only limits conservatives want on government is liberals running it.

 

[gallantwarrior]

The most infuriating thing to conservatives when arguing with liberals is complexity. Conservatives tend to try to boil everything down to simplicity, the argument always starts when someone says "it's not that simple or clearcut."

What you really mean is that liberals always start obfuscating the issue. The fundamental issues are actually quite simple. Do you have a right to anything I've earned? The clear cut answer is "no." that means there's no moral justification for welfare, Medicare and Social Security.

End of story.

Actually the simple issue is whether what you deem as "moral" is relevant. The clear cut answer is "no." All that matters is what works.

"Legal" is usually a pretty clear-cut concept. "Morality", on the other hand, is open to debate.

 

[Oddball]

Liberalism is the antithesis of tyranny.

how on earth would that be possible given that a tyranny requires a big liberal government???????

conservative governemnt cant be tyranical since the government is by definition limited. This is exactly 100% why our founders gave us a conservative limited government. Welcome to your very first lesson in American History.

WHEN have conservatives EVER created limited government? The only limits conservatives want on government is liberals running it.

Never...They lie.

But hey...You can console yourself with the fact that today's fake "liberals", like you, are at least somewhat honest about their communistic agenda....For what that may be worth.

 

[The T]

The left demonizes anything that gets in their way. Anything that interferes with their trampling of individual rights, anything that points out the similarities between their ideology and the truly brutal and repugnant tyrannies that share the same ideology are demonized.

I had stepped away for a while after you asked me to show you specific lies you made.

Now that I'm back, it's so fortunate that you have suddenly spouted some that I can point out.

This entire quoted paragraph is utter bullshit.

Yes, koshergirl, every single person on the left just waits with bated breath for their next opportunity to "trample individual rights". And when anyone mentions anything about NOT "trampling individual rights", everyone on the left just stands right up and "demonizes" them.

From reading this one paragraph, one can only conclude that you are an evil, nasty hatemonger who spreads propaganda and lies for a living, or that you're a paranoid schizophrenic. Which is it I wonder?

Lol..as I knew, you had absolutely nothing. Except your contention that a difference of opinion = lying.

Another extremist who doesn't know the definition of the words they like to use...words like "truth" "lie" "opinion" "fact" "debate" "proof".

Sure they know the definition of words and history...they revise them all the time so it fits thier twisted views.

 

[bripat9643]

WHEN have conservatives EVER created limited government? The only limits conservatives want on government is liberals running it.

When have conservatives ever run the government?

Your argument in support of big government is that it cutting it down to size has never been tried. That's a truly stupid argument.

 

[The T]

WHEN have conservatives EVER created limited government? The only limits conservatives want on government is liberals running it.

When have conservatives ever run the government?

Your argument in support of big government is that it cutting it down to size has never been tried. That's a truly stupid argument.

Gubmint has done nothing but grow since the early 1900's...we are seeing it come to a head 100 years later.

 

[gallantwarrior]

I see this over and over. Conservatives are for limited government. Just because we say we don't want government doing things where government is inept, counterproductive, wasteful or whatever, does not mean that we should shut it down totally.

Yes, we do need roads, bridges, highways, jails, schools, aircraft carriers, GPS satellites, standard weights and measures, courts, etc etc. Saying we don't need subsidies for crummy cars badly built and still with astronomical prices does not mean we don't need highways.

The conservative view is that the government should be a useful servant of the people's needs. However, you give it too much money, power, authority it becomes the worst sort of master.

What bugs us Libs about you Cons is that you don't understand that the GOP aren't interested in smaller government. You've seen, they've grown government every chance they have had. But the benefits went to their buddies. The top 1%. The Military Industrial Complex. CEO's. Exxon. Blackwater.

Rather than have it go for paying for the middle class and poor people, social security, schools, etc. The rich want to "SHRINK" government but only where they pay to help the poor. Their cuts will never benefit you. The Bush tax breaks don't.

Do you think you will save money if they privatize the post office? Not a chance. Your taxes will still go up because any savings go to the corporations now, and you know it.

And your party will never fix the debt. $14 trillion is it now? What will they do to pay down the debt. Their military adventures alone make that idea a fanstasy.

And you righties are only being cheap now because you don't want Obama spending money on America in America. If its not a war, we can't afford it.

So, welfare is OK with you, as long as it is doled out to your favorite "charities"? Taking money from any citizen/entity in order to distribute it to whatever "charity" the government deems most deserving (disregarding scale), is WRONG! Corporate charity promotes the same dependence on government largess as individual charity. Just a matter of scale...

 

[bripat9643]

"Legal" is usually a pretty clear-cut concept. "Morality", on the other hand, is open to debate.

Is the morality of slavery and gassing Jews open to debate? Anyone who claims moral issues aren't relevant to the proper role of government is simply an imbecile.

 

[koshergrl]

Let's see what the left demonizes, shall we?

Hmmm...think think think..

"I might be able to understand being upset about it, but seriously–you idiots are trying to preach against hate and you’re calling for gays and lesbians to “burn their f—ing churches to the ground and tax the charred timbers”?
“Burn Their Churches To The Ground” | Gay Conservative

 

[Bfgrn]

how on earth would that be possible given that a tyranny requires a big liberal government???????

conservative governemnt cant be tyranical since the government is by definition limited. This is exactly 100% why our founders gave us a conservative limited government. Welcome to your very first lesson in American History.

WHEN have conservatives EVER created limited government? The only limits conservatives want on government is liberals running it.

Never...They lie.

But hey...You can console yourself with the fact that today's fake "liberals", like you, are at least somewhat honest about their communistic agenda....For what that may be worth.

Well Jethro, people who are intelligent understand there can be too much government, and too little government. When conservatives say they are for less government, they only want government to keep away from the opulent they worship.

Nothing turns out to be so oppressive and unjust as a feeble government.
Edmund Burke

 

[Oddball]

WHEN have conservatives EVER created limited government? The only limits conservatives want on government is liberals running it.

Never...They lie.

But hey...You can console yourself with the fact that today's fake "liberals", like you, are at least somewhat honest about their communistic agenda....For what that may be worth.

Well Jethro, people who are intelligent understand there can be too much government, and too little government. When conservatives say they are for less government, they only want government to keep away from the opulent they worship.

As usual, your inane and bigoted rejoinder has absolutely nothing to do with what I said....But you're not that intelligent, so I'm not taken by surprise.

 

[rightwinger]

WHEN have conservatives EVER created limited government? The only limits conservatives want on government is liberals running it.

When have conservatives ever run the government?

Your argument in support of big government is that it cutting it down to size has never been tried. That's a truly stupid argument.

What about conservative icon Ron Reagan?

How did he do at limiting government and reducing debt?

 

[bripat9643]

When have conservatives ever run the government?

Your argument in support of big government is that it cutting it down to size has never been tried. That's a truly stupid argument.

What about conservative icon Ron Reagan?

How did he do at limiting government and reducing debt?

Did he control the entire government? I seem to recall the Dems having a majority in the House, and towards the end of his term they also controlled the Senate.

For two years now all you DimoRAT turds have been blubbering that Obama can't do anything because the Republicans control the House.

 

[Bfgrn]

Never...They lie.

But hey...You can console yourself with the fact that today's fake "liberals", like you, are at least somewhat honest about their communistic agenda....For what that may be worth.

Well Jethro, people who are intelligent understand there can be too much government, and too little government. When conservatives say they are for less government, they only want government to keep away from the opulent they worship.

As usual, your inane and bigoted rejoinder has absolutely nothing to do with what I said....But you're not that intelligent, so I'm not taken by surprise.

I've forgotten more than you will ever know Jethro. But maybe the butler can 'learn' ya...

 

[The T]

When have conservatives ever run the government?

Your argument in support of big government is that it cutting it down to size has never been tried. That's a truly stupid argument.

What about conservative icon Ron Reagan?

How did he do at limiting government and reducing debt?

Did he control the entire government? I seem to recall the Dems having a majority in the House, and towards the end of his term they also controlled the Senate.

For two years now all you DimoRAT turds have been blubbering that Obama can't do anything because the Republicans control the House.

And even when the Statists controlled both houses they whined about 'obstructionist' Republicans as did Obama.