What Philosophical Principle Do Liberals Hang Their Ideology On?

[Agit8r]

so did Jefferson, but he later realized the difference in the American and French ideologies.

I don't recall that. When was that exactly?

 

[rightwinger]

Our responsibility is not discharged by announcement of virtuous ends. Our responsibility is to achieve these objectives with social invention, with political skill, and executive vigor. I believe for these reasons that liberalism is our best and only hope in the world today. For the liberal society is a free society, and it is at the same time and for that reason a strong society. Its strength is drawn from the will of free people committed to great ends and peacefully striving to meet them. Only liberalism, in short, can repair our national power, restore our national purpose, and liberate our national energies. And the only basic issue in the 1960 campaign is whether our government will fall in a conservative rut and die there, or whether we will move ahead in the liberal spirit of daring, of breaking new ground, of doing in our generation what Woodrow Wilson and Franklin Roosevelt and Harry Truman and Adlai Stevenson did in their time of influence and responsibility.

JFK 2
Publius. 0

What will you do when the dollar crashes? How will Social Security be of any use when hyperinflation hits? Will they be mailing senior citizens gold instead?

You guys have been predicting the demise of Social Security for 75 years......what's taking so long?

 

[Agit8r]

the context does not change the meaning of what he expressed there. Nor does it change all the subsequent endorsements of redistribution and welfare-statism, and his dislike for the Christian religion. You should do some research before you claim an historical figure and expose your folly in Glenn Beck fashion

His support for the French Revolution (The first large scale class war socialist failure). Of course, so did Jefferson, but he later realized the difference in the American and French ideologies.

oh, here it is:

"The appeal to the rights of man, which had been made in the U S. was taken up by France, first of the European nations. From her the spirit has spread over those of the South. The tyrants of the North have allied indeed against it, but it is irresistible. Their opposition will only multiply it's millions of human victims; their own satellites will catch it, and the condition of man thro' the civilized world will be finally and greatly ameliorated."
-- Thomas Jefferson; from his Autobiography (1821)

 

[The2ndAmendment]

What will you do when the dollar crashes? How will Social Security be of any use when hyperinflation hits? Will they be mailing senior citizens gold instead?

You guys have been predicting the demise of Social Security for 75 years......what's taking so long?

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/283372-the-national-debt-mortgaging-our-future.html

It's not Social Security that will fail, its the dollar. Social Security is actually a good thing, and it funds itself, you pay into it, it's not a handout (however you should not be forced to pay into it). The government has borrowed more than 39 trillion from SS that it CAN NEVER repay. Check the link I gave you.

The only way to sustain the Federal Government and repay Social Security at the same time, will be to print money, a lot of money, too much money ... hyperinflation. Never before has our government burrowed such incredulous amounts of money until Bill Clinton authorized it in 1999 (Then Al Gore RIGHTFULLY ran on reverting back to a lockbox, when he realized the horror of what Bill Clinton had done). Then Bush won, and burrowed even more from SS, then Obama came and made even worse.

Remember that our government is ALREADY BROKE. That is why it is in major debt. Once the interest payments become unsustainable (interest will cost more than the Defense Budget by 2017), no one will lend money to the Federal Government anymore, because we wont even be capable of paying the interest. That's when the Fed prints like mad and hyperinflation starts.

--------------

The problem is the Federal Reserve (a private bank), which is mostly owned by the Rothschild Bank of England. You do know that the Federal Reserve has no obligation to the Federal Government, correct? That the Federal government has ZERO ownership of the Federal Reserve, correct?

When the US dollar crashes, EVERYTHING crashes with it. Social Security, Food Stamps, Government Pensions, Private Pensions, the entire stock market, private wages, public wages, food prices, gas prices, taxes, Medicare, Medicaid, property values, house values, any value, Energy costs, EVERYTHING, water...

Thankfully, I won't have to engage with the mobs that will be killing each other for every little morsel of food and drink of water, and probably cannibalizing. This is what you'll have to look forward to:


I'll be in my my concrete basement, booby trapped upstairs and outside, watching from the basement windows with lots of guns and ammo. If I run out of ammo and the unarmed mobs try to take me down in my basement, I have my family's heirloom from the revolutionary war (an 18h Century Calvary Saber) combined with my Great Grandfather's family heirloom from Denmark (full suit of gothic armor that fits my height and weight with a kite shield) to slash down every mother fucker in the choke point between my basement door and steps before they take my food and rape my family.

 

[Oldguy]

Jesus wanted us to give to each other via individual choice.

He did? Show me.

Nowhere does the Bible say that Jesus wants us to use force as a means to help one another.

Jesus said to render unto Caesar what is Caesar's. Specifically, he was talking about paying taxes to Rome. We don't know if Jesus ever earned any income, though as a carpenter that seems likely, but we can fathom from his commandment that He would have happily paid His taxes for whatever purpose Rome deemed important and Rome DID have numerous social programs.

The Democrat platform hangs on the principle of force so that they may steal from one to give to another in only the manner they see fit.

So, the Republican platform does not include compulsory taxation? Show me.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Our responsibility is not discharged by announcement of virtuous ends. Our responsibility is to achieve these objectives with social invention, with political skill, and executive vigor. I believe for these reasons that liberalism is our best and only hope in the world today. For the liberal society is a free society, and it is at the same time and for that reason a strong society. Its strength is drawn from the will of free people committed to great ends and peacefully striving to meet them. Only liberalism, in short, can repair our national power, restore our national purpose, and liberate our national energies. And the only basic issue in the 1960 campaign is whether our government will fall in a conservative rut and die there, or whether we will move ahead in the liberal spirit of daring, of breaking new ground, of doing in our generation what Woodrow Wilson and Franklin Roosevelt and Harry Truman and Adlai Stevenson did in their time of influence and responsibility.

JFK 2
Publius. 0

What will you do when the dollar crashes? How will Social Security be of any use when hyperinflation hits? Will they be mailing senior citizens gold instead?

You guys have been predicting the demise of Social Security for 75 years......what's taking so long?

It works.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

What will you do when the dollar crashes? How will Social Security be of any use when hyperinflation hits? Will they be mailing senior citizens gold instead?

You guys have been predicting the demise of Social Security for 75 years......what's taking so long?

It works.

It's not Social Security that will fail, its the dollar. Social Security is actually a good thing, and it funds itself, you pay into it, it's not a handout (however you should not be forced to pay into it). The government has borrowed more than 39 trillion from SS that it CAN NEVER repay. Check the link I gave you.

The only way to sustain the Federal Government and repay Social Security at the same time, will be to print money, a lot of money, too much money ... hyperinflation. Never before has our government burrowed such incredulous amounts of money until Bill Clinton authorized it in 1999 (Then Al Gore RIGHTFULLY ran on reverting back to a lockbox, when he realized the horror of what Bill Clinton had done). Then Bush won, and burrowed even more from SS, then Obama came and made even worse.

Remember that our government is ALREADY BROKE. That is why it is in major debt. Once the interest payments become unsustainable (interest will cost more than the Defense Budget by 2017), no one will lend money to the Federal Government anymore, because we wont even be capable of paying the interest. That's when the Fed prints like mad and hyperinflation starts.

--------------

The problem is the Federal Reserve (a private bank), which is mostly owned by the Rothschild Bank of England. You do know that the Federal Reserve has no obligation to the Federal Government, correct? That the Federal government has ZERO ownership of the Federal Reserve, correct?

When the US dollar crashes, EVERYTHING crashes with it. Social Security, Food Stamps, Government Pensions, Private Pensions, the entire stock market, private wages, public wages, food prices, gas prices, taxes, Medicare, Medicaid, property values, house values, any value, Energy costs, EVERYTHING, water...

Thankfully, I won't have to engage with the mobs that will be killing each other for every little morsel of food and drink of water, and probably cannibalizing. This is what you'll have to look forward to:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY4V3UUY95A]Looks like meat's back on the menu, boys! - YouTube[/ame]

I'll be in my my concrete basement, booby trapped upstairs and outside, watching from the basement windows with lots of guns and ammo. If I run out of ammo and the unarmed mobs try to take me down in my basement, I have my family's heirloom from the revolutionary war (an 18h Century Calvary Saber) combined with my Great Grandfather's family heirloom from Denmark (full suit of gothic armor that fits my height and weight with a kite shield) to slash down every mother fucker in the choke point between my basement door and steps before they take my food and rape my family. I'll keep a shotgun and reserve ammo in case they come down in droves.

 

[earlycuyler]

What Philosophical Principle Do Liberals Hang Their Ideology On?

For conservatives, it’s easy. They either place their ideology on the principle of self-ownership as written by John Locke or the no harm principle as advocated by J.S. Mill. But what does the modern day liberal trace his/her ideological principles back to? What is the foundation of their thought? It can’t be the classical liberalism of the above stated philosophers (Which calles into qustion the reason they identify as "liberals"). So who/what? Is it “From each according to his ability to each according to his need”? Certainly a modern day liberal/progressive/democrat should be able to shine some light on this question.

Potato.

 

[logical4u]

I would say that the teachings of liberalism can be traced to the words and teachings of Jesus.

Please, be specific.

 

[logical4u]

What Philosophical Principle Do Liberals Hang Their Ideology On?

For conservatives, it’s easy. They either place their ideology on the principle of self-ownership as written by John Locke or the no harm principle as advocated by J.S. Mill. But what does the modern day liberal trace his/her ideological principles back to? What is the foundation of their thought? It can’t be the classical liberalism of the above stated philosophers (Which calles into qustion the reason they identify as "liberals"). So who/what? Is it “From each according to his ability to each according to his need”? Certainly a modern day liberal/progressive/democrat should be able to shine some light on this question.

Experience and common sense.

What experience?

What common sense?

Please be specific.

 

[Oldguy]

This "liberal" bases not only his political philosophy, but his entire life on the simplest, yet most profound of the teachings of Jesus: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. (Luke 6:31; Matt 7:12 )

Just as I would not want to be refused help when I needed it, neither will I refuse it to someone else. Just as I would not want to be treated like a second class citizen, neither will I treat anyone else that way or allow anyone else to do it. Just as I would not want my children to starve or their medical problems to go untreated, neither will I require that of others, nor will I allow others to require it.

That's a direct outflow from the Second Greatest Commandment, also a teaching of Jesus: Love your neighbor as you love yourself. The word translated as "neighbor" is a Greek word which literally means every other human being. Interestingly, it also means where two people are concerned, it's the other one, which fits neatly with Paul's teachings to consider ourselves as less than everyone else.

The point is that this kind of uncompromising, unequivocal, undemanding love for our fellow man without thought of recompense or pre-condition, is PRECISELY what I see missing in the ideology of the modern-day right. On that side, all we see is greed, avarice and selfishness. "I've got mine, get your own and don't even THINK of me helping you because you don't deserve it and I don't want to pay for it."

And THAT is why I cannot, and will not, support candidates which preach such an arrogant, prideful message.

For my "Christian" Evangelical friends over there on that side, I would remind them of something John said in I John 4:20----If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

 

[logical4u]

Not so, vandalshandle. Liberation Theology is not Christianity. Its Marxism with an upside down cross. No such thing as a Marxist Christian. They don't exist. - Jeremiah

Oversimplified hogwash.

Please give me a single quote of Jesus from the gospels that support today's conservative principles. On the other hand, you could start with the sermon on the mount, and find it full of today liberal concepts....and that is just a small example of his sayings that liberals embrace.

KJV Matthew Chapter 5
1 And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:

2 And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,

3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.

5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.

16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;

24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.

25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.

26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:

32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:

34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:

35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.

36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.

37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.

41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.

42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
......

Not seeing rude, obnoxious, promiscuous, covetous, divisive or murdering babies as good things here, maybe you could expand on your thought, some....

 

[logical4u]

Oversimplified hogwash.

Please give me a single quote of Jesus from the gospels that support today's conservative principles. On the other hand, you could start with the sermon on the mount, and find it full of today liberal concepts....and that is just a small example of his sayings that liberals embrace.

Jesus wanted us to give to each other via individual choice. Nowhere does the Bible say that Jesus wants us to use force as a means to help one another.

Nowhere does the bible say that Jesus wanted us to give to each other via individual choice either. Jesus preached that helping the poor, sick and less fortunate was a Christian obligation.

The Democrat platform hangs on the principle of force so that they may steal from one to give to another in only the manner they see fit. This is not the principle of self-ownership and this is not the no harm principle. This is "From each according to this ability to each according to his need" via the dictates of others.

So it is Christian for individuals to help the poor, sick and unfortunate but Marxism when a government comprised of We the People does the exact same thing? As a Judeo-Christian nation isn't one of the guiding principles the welfare of the people themselves? Why does the means to the end transform from a Christian Principle into a Marxism tenet simply because it is being done by the more perfect union of we the people?

With Christianity, each individual decides for themselves what to give, and how much to give. They do so, considering the needs of their family, and the needs of other families.

Marxism cannot do this. It only considers what it "wants" of others to "give" (buy) the dependent. Marxism does not consider what the individual needs for their family (medical care, tuition for school, support of infirmed relatives), and hurts families (and society) by ignoring what the individual needs are.

BTW, marxism ends with the people running the gov't TAKING advantage of the authority they have to oppress the people for whom they said they would protect, and making themselves a higher "class", than those that are "ruled". It always makes a dictator or a tyrant, with the people forced into subjugation.

 

[Agit8r]

Jesus wanted us to give to each other via individual choice. Nowhere does the Bible say that Jesus wants us to use force as a means to help one another.

Nowhere does the bible say that Jesus wanted us to give to each other via individual choice either. Jesus preached that helping the poor, sick and less fortunate was a Christian obligation.

The Democrat platform hangs on the principle of force so that they may steal from one to give to another in only the manner they see fit. This is not the principle of self-ownership and this is not the no harm principle. This is "From each according to this ability to each according to his need" via the dictates of others.

So it is Christian for individuals to help the poor, sick and unfortunate but Marxism when a government comprised of We the People does the exact same thing? As a Judeo-Christian nation isn't one of the guiding principles the welfare of the people themselves? Why does the means to the end transform from a Christian Principle into a Marxism tenet simply because it is being done by the more perfect union of we the people?

With Christianity, each individual decides for themselves what to give, and how much to give. They do so, considering the needs of their family, and the needs of other families.

Marxism cannot do this. It only considers what it "wants" of others to "give" (buy) the dependent. Marxism does not consider what the individual needs for their family (medical care, tuition for school, support of infirmed relatives), and hurts families (and society) by ignoring what the individual needs are.

BTW, marxism ends with the people running the gov't TAKING advantage of the authority they have to oppress the people for whom they said they would protect, and making themselves a higher "class", than those that are "ruled". It always makes a dictator or a tyrant, with the people forced into subjugation.

the use of the term "marxism" here is of course a strawman. Taxing and redistribution, as well as various philosophies on the subject, were around long before Karl Marx was born.

"legislators cannot invent too many devices for subdividing property, only taking care to let their subdivisions go hand in hand with the natural affections of the human mind. The descent of property of every kind therefore to all the children, or to all the brothers and sisters, or other relations in equal degree is a politic measure, and a practicable one. Another means of silently lessening the inequality of property is to exempt all from taxation below a certain point, and to tax the higher portions of property in geometrical progression as they rise."
-- Thomas Jefferson; from letter to James Madison (Oct. 28, 1785)

 

[logical4u]

What Philosophical Principle Do Liberals Hang Their Ideology On?

This is what confuses the right, resulting in conservative disdain for what they perceive as ‘liberal.’

Liberals are for the most part pragmatists, there is thus no single, specific ‘philosophical principle’ to which they blindly adhere.

Their guiding principles, among others, are the desire to predicate policy decisions on fact, not dogma, as conservatives are prone to do, to attempt to be consistent with the application of policy, and to ensure the laws of society benefit all citizens equally.

Indeed, much of the conflict between liberals and conservatives is not a conflict between competing ideologies, but a conflict between conservative dogma and liberals rejecting that dogma because liberals correctly understand its factual errors and failings.

For example, conservatives seek to establish drug testing as a condition of initial eligibility for public assistance applicants predicated on rightist economic dogma and animus towards those requesting assistance, oblivious to the fact that those receiving public assistance are no more likely to use drugs than the general public. Conservatives perceive making it more difficult to apply for government benefits as striking a blow against the ‘welfare state,’ when in reality they’re striking a blow against the Constitution.

That the courts have invalidated such measures is proof of that.

Facts:

abortion is the murder of an unborn child
homosexual or promiscuous behavior is harmful to individual's health and society
there is no evidence the world is warmer than in any point in living history
the biological, married parents are the most likely to raise productive children
deceiving others is corruption, and weakens society
laws passed to benefit specific groups are not about "equality"

Democratic policy doesn't "appear" to be concerned with "facts"....

Drug dealers are now teaching drug users how to scam the food stamp program to convert gov't handouts into cash for the drug dealers. (Sorry, there is another "fact", in case you want to live up to your statement about how you decide based on "facts").

 

[Agit8r]

What Philosophical Principle Do Liberals Hang Their Ideology On?

This is what confuses the right, resulting in conservative disdain for what they perceive as ‘liberal.’

Liberals are for the most part pragmatists, there is thus no single, specific ‘philosophical principle’ to which they blindly adhere.

Their guiding principles, among others, are the desire to predicate policy decisions on fact, not dogma, as conservatives are prone to do, to attempt to be consistent with the application of policy, and to ensure the laws of society benefit all citizens equally.

Indeed, much of the conflict between liberals and conservatives is not a conflict between competing ideologies, but a conflict between conservative dogma and liberals rejecting that dogma because liberals correctly understand its factual errors and failings.

For example, conservatives seek to establish drug testing as a condition of initial eligibility for public assistance applicants predicated on rightist economic dogma and animus towards those requesting assistance, oblivious to the fact that those receiving public assistance are no more likely to use drugs than the general public. Conservatives perceive making it more difficult to apply for government benefits as striking a blow against the ‘welfare state,’ when in reality they’re striking a blow against the Constitution.

That the courts have invalidated such measures is proof of that.

Facts:

abortion is the murder of an unborn child
homosexual or promiscuous behavior is harmful to individual's health and society
there is no evidence the world is warmer than in any point in living history
the biological, married parents are the most likely to raise productive children
deceiving others is corruption, and weakens society
laws passed to benefit specific groups are not about "equality"

Democratic policy doesn't "appear" to be concerned with "facts"....

Drug dealers are now teaching drug users how to scam the food stamp program to convert gov't handouts into cash for the drug dealers. (Sorry, there is another "fact", in case you want to live up to your statement about how you decide based on "facts").

half of those are just bigoted opinions

 

[Vandalshandle]

I would say that the teachings of liberalism can be traced to the words and teachings of Jesus.

Please, be specific.

I already was, when I posted 9 quotes from Jesus about the poor. You can follow my posts on this thread to read it.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Not so, vandalshandle. Liberation Theology is not Christianity. Its Marxism with an upside down cross. No such thing as a Marxist Christian. They don't exist. - Jeremiah

Oversimplified hogwash.

Please give me a single quote of Jesus from the gospels that support today's conservative principles. On the other hand, you could start with the sermon on the mount, and find it full of today liberal concepts....and that is just a small example of his sayings that liberals embrace.

KJV Matthew Chapter 5
1 And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:

2 And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,

3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.

5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.

16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;

24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.

25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.

26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:

32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:

34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:

35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.

36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.

37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.

41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.

42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
......

Not seeing rude, obnoxious, promiscuous, covetous, divisive or murdering babies as good things here, maybe you could expand on your thought, some....

I could, but you know as well as I that if Jesus were on earth today, he would not be preaching Republican values, and I certainly saw nothing here that would indicate otherwise.

 

[rightwinger]

What will you do when the dollar crashes? How will Social Security be of any use when hyperinflation hits? Will they be mailing senior citizens gold instead?

You guys have been predicting the demise of Social Security for 75 years......what's taking so long?

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/283372-the-national-debt-mortgaging-our-future.html

It's not Social Security that will fail, its the dollar. Social Security is actually a good thing, and it funds itself, you pay into it, it's not a handout (however you should not be forced to pay into it). The government has borrowed more than 39 trillion from SS that it CAN NEVER repay. Check the link I gave you.

The only way to sustain the Federal Government and repay Social Security at the same time, will be to print money, a lot of money, too much money ... hyperinflation. Never before has our government burrowed such incredulous amounts of money until Bill Clinton authorized it in 1999 (Then Al Gore RIGHTFULLY ran on reverting back to a lockbox, when he realized the horror of what Bill Clinton had done). Then Bush won, and burrowed even more from SS, then Obama came and made even worse.

Remember that our government is ALREADY BROKE. That is why it is in major debt. Once the interest payments become unsustainable (interest will cost more than the Defense Budget by 2017), no one will lend money to the Federal Government anymore, because we wont even be capable of paying the interest. That's when the Fed prints like mad and hyperinflation starts.

--------------

The problem is the Federal Reserve (a private bank), which is mostly owned by the Rothschild Bank of England. You do know that the Federal Reserve has no obligation to the Federal Government, correct? That the Federal government has ZERO ownership of the Federal Reserve, correct?

When the US dollar crashes, EVERYTHING crashes with it. Social Security, Food Stamps, Government Pensions, Private Pensions, the entire stock market, private wages, public wages, food prices, gas prices, taxes, Medicare, Medicaid, property values, house values, any value, Energy costs, EVERYTHING, water...

Thankfully, I won't have to engage with the mobs that will be killing each other for every little morsel of food and drink of water, and probably cannibalizing. This is what you'll have to look forward to:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY4V3UUY95A]Looks like meat's back on the menu, boys! - YouTube[/ame]

I'll be in my my concrete basement, booby trapped upstairs and outside, watching from the basement windows with lots of guns and ammo. If I run out of ammo and the unarmed mobs try to take me down in my basement, I have my family's heirloom from the revolutionary war (an 18h Century Calvary Saber) combined with my Great Grandfather's family heirloom from Denmark (full suit of gothic armor that fits my height and weight with a kite shield) to slash down every mother fucker in the choke point between my basement door and steps before they take my food and rape my family.

I lived through hyperinflation in the 70s

You bozos have been predicting it since Obama took office. What is taking so long?

 

[Vandalshandle]

"Facts:

abortion is the murder of an unborn child
homosexual or promiscuous behavior is harmful to individual's health and society
there is no evidence the world is warmer than in any point in living history
the biological, married parents are the most likely to raise productive children
deceiving others is corruption, and weakens society
laws passed to benefit specific groups are not about "equality"

Democratic policy doesn't "appear" to be concerned with "facts"....

Drug dealers are now teaching drug users how to scam the food stamp program to convert gov't handouts into cash for the drug dealers. (Sorry, there is another "fact", in case you want to live up to your statement about how you decide based on "facts"). "
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Not facts. Republican axiums and the gospel according to Glenn Beck