Who owns your womb?

[Luddly Neddite]

Who Owns Your Womb? Women Can Get Murder Charge for Refusing C-Sections | Alternet

Decades ago, refusing to undergo cesarean surgery was not a crime. That’s another matter now in the wake of recent "fetal protection" enactments that make it a crime for a pregnant woman to engage in any conduct that might threaten harm to a fetus. Some doctors believe this applies to how a woman gives birth.

Melissa Rowland refused to undergo the cesarean surgery recommended by her doctor. She was later charged with murder after one of her fetuses was stillborn. Rowland accepted a plea deal, which made her criminally liable for child endangerment.

Three years ago Rinat Dray vehemently protested against the administration of a cesarean section in the birth of her third child. Throughout her pregnancy, she had prepared for a vaginal delivery after prior cesarean, or VBAC. However, on that July evening, according to a lawsuit filed by Dray, hospital staff overrode her refusal to submit to a cesarean. Hospital documents record Dray’s refusal, and also her physician’s decision to ignore that order. In a handwritten statement attached to her file, her doctor informed hospital staff that “I have decided to override her refusal to have a C-section.” Soon thereafter, doctors removed Dray’s third child by c-section.

Cesarean births have skyrocketed in the United States, though a growing number of academics speculate that too many pregnant women are delivering by cesarean surgery and that it may be unhealthy. In 1965, only 4 percent of all births in the US were performed by cesarean surgery; currently that figure is closer to 33 percent. The World Health Organization recommends that no more than 10-15 percent of all births be by cesarean surgery. Importantly “the proposed upper limit of 15% is not a target to be achieved but rather a threshold not to be exceeded.”

The high frequency of c-sections in the U.S. indicates a disturbing medical and legal trend. Cesarean surgeries are risky medical procedures; they are painful post-operatively and can render the patient vulnerable to infection at the point of incision in the abdomen or uterus. Women can suffer blood clots in the legs or lungs, heavy blood loss, and drug side effects such as migraines, nausea and vomiting. Cesarean surgeries can result in weak spots in the uterus, making subsequent vaginal deliveries risky. The dramatic rise in cesarean surgeries shows not only a disregard for the medical evidence, but of pregnant women’s legal rights. In Dray’s case, her lawsuit alleges that the hospital’s legal counsel signed off on cesarean surgery.

 

[Pogo]

Who Owns Your Womb? Women Can Get Murder Charge for Refusing C-Sections | Alternet

Decades ago, refusing to undergo cesarean surgery was not a crime. That’s another matter now in the wake of recent "fetal protection" enactments that make it a crime for a pregnant woman to engage in any conduct that might threaten harm to a fetus. Some doctors believe this applies to how a woman gives birth.

Melissa Rowland refused to undergo the cesarean surgery recommended by her doctor. She was later charged with murder after one of her fetuses was stillborn. Rowland accepted a plea deal, which made her criminally liable for child endangerment.

Three years ago Rinat Dray vehemently protested against the administration of a cesarean section in the birth of her third child. Throughout her pregnancy, she had prepared for a vaginal delivery after prior cesarean, or VBAC. However, on that July evening, according to a lawsuit filed by Dray, hospital staff overrode her refusal to submit to a cesarean. Hospital documents record Dray’s refusal, and also her physician’s decision to ignore that order. In a handwritten statement attached to her file, her doctor informed hospital staff that “I have decided to override her refusal to have a C-section.” Soon thereafter, doctors removed Dray’s third child by c-section.

Cesarean births have skyrocketed in the United States, though a growing number of academics speculate that too many pregnant women are delivering by cesarean surgery and that it may be unhealthy. In 1965, only 4 percent of all births in the US were performed by cesarean surgery; currently that figure is closer to 33 percent. The World Health Organization recommends that no more than 10-15 percent of all births be by cesarean surgery. Importantly “the proposed upper limit of 15% is not a target to be achieved but rather a threshold not to be exceeded.”

The high frequency of c-sections in the U.S. indicates a disturbing medical and legal trend. Cesarean surgeries are risky medical procedures; they are painful post-operatively and can render the patient vulnerable to infection at the point of incision in the abdomen or uterus. Women can suffer blood clots in the legs or lungs, heavy blood loss, and drug side effects such as migraines, nausea and vomiting. Cesarean surgeries can result in weak spots in the uterus, making subsequent vaginal deliveries risky. The dramatic rise in cesarean surgeries shows not only a disregard for the medical evidence, but of pregnant women’s legal rights. In Dray’s case, her lawsuit alleges that the hospital’s legal counsel signed off on cesarean surgery.

By this logic...

 

[Noomi]

If the woman is about to give birth, and having a C section is in the best interests of her health and the health of her fetus - which she would want to see alive, then do the C section.
I can understand not wanting one, but do you want a warm, healthy baby, or a dead baby?

 

[Pogo]

If the woman is about to give birth, and having a C section is in the best interests of her health and the health of her fetus - which she would want to see alive, then do the C section.
I can understand not wanting one, but do you want a warm, healthy baby, or a dead baby?

That's not what the article is saying Noomi. Doctors here prescribe a lot of shit that isn't necessary. Amazingly we actually have for-profit hospitals, which means it's in the medical staff's interest to do more surgeries -- it makes them money. It's a warped system.

The point here is that the law appears to be penalizing the mother by taking her doctor's advice over the mother's own. Whether such a woman actually "needs" the C-section is sometimes highly questionable. So what's happening is the law favoring the word of a doctor over the decision of the mother, which is at the very least a form of blackmail -- let alone the question in the thread title.

 

[asterism]

If the woman is about to give birth, and having a C section is in the best interests of her health and the health of her fetus - which she would want to see alive, then do the C section.
I can understand not wanting one, but do you want a warm, healthy baby, or a dead baby?

Make no mistake, there is a lot of cross-pollination between NARAL, Emily's List, and ZPG. Many do indeed want the dead baby.

 

[Mr. H.]

I suppose Obama does.
After all, he gave me maternity coverage.

 

[Noomi]

If the woman is about to give birth, and having a C section is in the best interests of her health and the health of her fetus - which she would want to see alive, then do the C section.
I can understand not wanting one, but do you want a warm, healthy baby, or a dead baby?

That's not what the article is saying Noomi. Doctors here prescribe a lot of shit that isn't necessary. Amazingly we actually have for-profit hospitals, which means it's in the medical staff's interest to do more surgeries -- it makes them money. It's a warped system.

The point here is that the law appears to be penalizing the mother by taking her doctor's advice over the mother's own. Whether such a woman actually "needs" the C-section is sometimes highly questionable. So what's happening is the law favoring the word of a doctor over the decision of the mother, which is at the very least a form of blackmail -- let alone the question in the thread title.

Only providing the C section is medically necessary - if she might die during a natural birth, for instance - should she have one, as the doctor would have an interest in keeping her healthy.

But to force a healthy woman to have one would be completely wrong.

 

[asterism]

If the woman is about to give birth, and having a C section is in the best interests of her health and the health of her fetus - which she would want to see alive, then do the C section.
I can understand not wanting one, but do you want a warm, healthy baby, or a dead baby?

That's not what the article is saying Noomi. Doctors here prescribe a lot of shit that isn't necessary. Amazingly we actually have for-profit hospitals, which means it's in the medical staff's interest to do more surgeries -- it makes them money. It's a warped system.

The point here is that the law appears to be penalizing the mother by taking her doctor's advice over the mother's own. Whether such a woman actually "needs" the C-section is sometimes highly questionable. So what's happening is the law favoring the word of a doctor over the decision of the mother, which is at the very least a form of blackmail -- let alone the question in the thread title.

Profit provides the incentive to be efficient. Non-profit means as long as the revenue is spent on "something" it's kosher.

If you want a peek into a "non-profit" you should look at Nemours. VERY fancy lobbies, state of the art phone systems that nobody knows how to use, and overall mediocre care for mundane things like broken limbs and car accidents. Exquisite care for rare diseases, but that's a separate story.

 

[Pogo]

If the woman is about to give birth, and having a C section is in the best interests of her health and the health of her fetus - which she would want to see alive, then do the C section.
I can understand not wanting one, but do you want a warm, healthy baby, or a dead baby?

That's not what the article is saying Noomi. Doctors here prescribe a lot of shit that isn't necessary. Amazingly we actually have for-profit hospitals, which means it's in the medical staff's interest to do more surgeries -- it makes them money. It's a warped system.

The point here is that the law appears to be penalizing the mother by taking her doctor's advice over the mother's own. Whether such a woman actually "needs" the C-section is sometimes highly questionable. So what's happening is the law favoring the word of a doctor over the decision of the mother, which is at the very least a form of blackmail -- let alone the question in the thread title.

Profit provides the incentive to be efficient. Non-profit means as long as the revenue is spent on "something" it's kosher.

If you want a peek into a "non-profit" you should look at Nemours. VERY fancy lobbies, state of the art phone systems that nobody knows how to use, and overall mediocre care for mundane things like broken limbs and car accidents. Exquisite care for rare diseases, but that's a separate story.

Uh ..... no. Profit means milking a cash cow. And that ain't no bull.

 

[asterism]

That's not what the article is saying Noomi. Doctors here prescribe a lot of shit that isn't necessary. Amazingly we actually have for-profit hospitals, which means it's in the medical staff's interest to do more surgeries -- it makes them money. It's a warped system.

The point here is that the law appears to be penalizing the mother by taking her doctor's advice over the mother's own. Whether such a woman actually "needs" the C-section is sometimes highly questionable. So what's happening is the law favoring the word of a doctor over the decision of the mother, which is at the very least a form of blackmail -- let alone the question in the thread title.

Profit provides the incentive to be efficient. Non-profit means as long as the revenue is spent on "something" it's kosher.

If you want a peek into a "non-profit" you should look at Nemours. VERY fancy lobbies, state of the art phone systems that nobody knows how to use, and overall mediocre care for mundane things like broken limbs and car accidents. Exquisite care for rare diseases, but that's a separate story.

Uh ..... no. Profit means milking a cash cow. And that ain't no bull.

There's lots of cash to be milked if all you have to do is justify spending. Seriously, take a look at the grandiose lobby:

How does this fine piece of art make healthcare better?


(here's a hint, it doesn't)

 

[strollingbones]

younger women seem to feel that vaginal birth is an old fashion and out dated idea...why go thru all that when you can pick a date and be done with it? most the c sections my younger friends have had are for convenience....they pick the time and date and can plan around it...seems they are too busy with careers and such to wait around for the natural labor to kick in...cant be bothered... our society just continues to make child birth as unnatural as possible and the doctors are into the convenience factor and covering their ass factor to the max

 

[I.P.Freely]

younger women seem to feel that vaginal birth is an old fashion and out dated idea...why go thru all that when you can pick a date and be done with it? most the c sections my younger friends have had are for convenience....they pick the time and date and can plan around it...seems they are too busy with careers and such to wait around for the natural labor to kick in...cant be bothered... our society just continues to make child birth as unnatural as possible and the doctors are into the convenience factor and covering their ass factor to the max

you left out the most important factor,,,,,,keeping a tight pussy.

 

[Noomi]

younger women seem to feel that vaginal birth is an old fashion and out dated idea...why go thru all that when you can pick a date and be done with it? most the c sections my younger friends have had are for convenience....they pick the time and date and can plan around it...seems they are too busy with careers and such to wait around for the natural labor to kick in...cant be bothered... our society just continues to make child birth as unnatural as possible and the doctors are into the convenience factor and covering their ass factor to the max

I would never do that. If you get pregnant, you wait until baby is ready to arrive, unless bub is very overdue. If I get pregnant, I look forward to a completely natural birth. No pain, no gain, after all. And no C section unless it is absolutely necessary.

I would never be too posh to push.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

If the woman is about to give birth, and having a C section is in the best interests of her health and the health of her fetus - which she would want to see alive, then do the C section.
I can understand not wanting one, but do you want a warm, healthy baby, or a dead baby?

True.

The problem, unfortunately, is we have those on the social right seeking to compel the procedure for partisan reasons, having nothing to do with what’s best for the woman.

"Fetal protection" laws and similar measures are just another sad example of conservative contempt for individual liberty, and the desire by most on the right to expand the size and authority of government at the expense of individual liberty.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Obama owns your womb

 

[MeBelle]

If the woman is about to give birth, and having a C section is in the best interests of her health and the health of her fetus - which she would want to see alive, then do the C section.
I can understand not wanting one, but do you want a warm, healthy baby, or a dead baby?

True.

The problem, unfortunately, is we have those on the social right seeking to compel the procedure for partisan reasons, having nothing to do with what’s best for the woman.

"Fetal protection" laws and similar measures are just another sad example of conservative contempt for individual liberty, and the desire by most on the right to expand the size and authority of government at the expense of individual liberty.

Bullshit!

You experience active labor for 36 hours only to find out the umbilical cord is wrapped around your baby's neck cutting off his circulation.
C-section or let the baby die?

fkn men don't know squat sh!t when it comes to physically birthing a child.


STFU!!

 

[Luddly Neddite]

We have a similar situation with hysterectomies. They are also often done when there is no physical reason for it.

And, no - neither has anything to do with Obama. This trend has its roots long before he was even born.

 

[Noomi]

If the woman is about to give birth, and having a C section is in the best interests of her health and the health of her fetus - which she would want to see alive, then do the C section.
I can understand not wanting one, but do you want a warm, healthy baby, or a dead baby?

True.

The problem, unfortunately, is we have those on the social right seeking to compel the procedure for partisan reasons, having nothing to do with what’s best for the woman.

"Fetal protection" laws and similar measures are just another sad example of conservative contempt for individual liberty, and the desire by most on the right to expand the size and authority of government at the expense of individual liberty.

Bullshit!

You experience active labor for 36 hours only to find out the umbilical cord is wrapped around your baby's neck cutting off his circulation.
C-section or let the baby die?

fkn men don't know squat sh!t when it comes to physically birthing a child.


STFU!!

C section, obviously. I don't think anyone would dispute that.

 

[Unkotare]

younger women seem to feel that vaginal birth is an old fashion and out dated idea...why go thru all that when you can pick a date and be done with it? most the c sections my younger friends have had are for convenience....

Unnecessary C-sections are more often for the convenience of the hospital and/or OB. The risk to the mother is much greater.

 

[emilynghiem]

Prochoice liberals who "make exceptions" for govt to mandate health care policies
have "opened the door" for govt to regulate and control all other health care areas.

If you want to oppose and prevent govt intrusion,
shouldn't it be CONSISTENT?

Shouldn't all health care choices be free from
govt penalties, similar to reproductive health care choices?

Who Owns Your Womb? Women Can Get Murder Charge for Refusing C-Sections | Alternet

Decades ago, refusing to undergo cesarean surgery was not a crime. That’s another matter now in the wake of recent "fetal protection" enactments that make it a crime for a pregnant woman to engage in any conduct that might threaten harm to a fetus. Some doctors believe this applies to how a woman gives birth.

Melissa Rowland refused to undergo the cesarean surgery recommended by her doctor. She was later charged with murder after one of her fetuses was stillborn. Rowland accepted a plea deal, which made her criminally liable for child endangerment.

Three years ago Rinat Dray vehemently protested against the administration of a cesarean section in the birth of her third child. Throughout her pregnancy, she had prepared for a vaginal delivery after prior cesarean, or VBAC. However, on that July evening, according to a lawsuit filed by Dray, hospital staff overrode her refusal to submit to a cesarean. Hospital documents record Dray’s refusal, and also her physician’s decision to ignore that order. In a handwritten statement attached to her file, her doctor informed hospital staff that “I have decided to override her refusal to have a C-section.” Soon thereafter, doctors removed Dray’s third child by c-section.

Cesarean births have skyrocketed in the United States, though a growing number of academics speculate that too many pregnant women are delivering by cesarean surgery and that it may be unhealthy. In 1965, only 4 percent of all births in the US were performed by cesarean surgery; currently that figure is closer to 33 percent. The World Health Organization recommends that no more than 10-15 percent of all births be by cesarean surgery. Importantly “the proposed upper limit of 15% is not a target to be achieved but rather a threshold not to be exceeded.”

The high frequency of c-sections in the U.S. indicates a disturbing medical and legal trend. Cesarean surgeries are risky medical procedures; they are painful post-operatively and can render the patient vulnerable to infection at the point of incision in the abdomen or uterus. Women can suffer blood clots in the legs or lungs, heavy blood loss, and drug side effects such as migraines, nausea and vomiting. Cesarean surgeries can result in weak spots in the uterus, making subsequent vaginal deliveries risky. The dramatic rise in cesarean surgeries shows not only a disregard for the medical evidence, but of pregnant women’s legal rights. In Dray’s case, her lawsuit alleges that the hospital’s legal counsel signed off on cesarean surgery.