CDZ Why I support whomever. . .

[Kosh]

I voted against the further destruction of America by voting against Clinton.

If you want America to be successful you never vote far left!

 

[Foxfyre]

QUESTION: Without discussing President Trump or Hillary Clinton (or Bernie Sanders or Gary Johnson or Jill Stein) personally, was your vote strictly against somebody else? Or did you vote along party lines? Or did your vote and current support represent your opinions and/or deepest convictions, and/or hopes?

What is most important to you re the State of the Union at this time? What do you want the policy or direction to be?

My vote was primarily against TWO people. I didn't like Trump (he seemed too undiplomatic), and I fear the core principles of Clinton (which is to say she has none). So, I had to scout out the field, and held my nose when I voted for the 3rd party I thought had the best platform.

As to what I see as the most important issue of the day? Well, no one seems to want to talk much about it. And that is what is most concerning about it. There are many important issues today, from immigration, to Russia, to trade, North Korea, the list is quite long. However, has anyone else noticed that whenever these topics are discussed, the "discussion" inevitably breaks down? Insults are thrown, the flamethrowers come out, and no one is listening anymore. This has spilled out, in very dramatic fashion, into our national politics. Just look at the way the candidates on the Republican side treated each other. Then, the nominees, both Trump and Clinton (and to a lesser degree 3rd party people), followed suit. The country divided, mostly between Trump supporters and Clinton supporters, and tried to shout each other down. This happened on BOTH sides of that one. On one side you've got people calling Clinton a criminal, and on the other side you've got people calling Trump a Nazi/Fascist. Is either accusation true and correct? No, Trump is a LOT of things, fascist is not one of them, likewise Clinton (whether or not she did something illegal, ie state secrets on a private server...)has NEVER been convicted of a thing. Yet the clashes continue. Why? Simple, most people have chosen a side, put their self-worth on the line (to varying degrees), and will defend "their side" regardless of facts, or reason. Some, I repeat in all caps, SOME people are even willing to go further than just words. Thankfully, this is a minority, regardless of what the MSM would have you believe, but a very loud and vocal minority. A still smaller percentage of these people have taken to threats, and even violence. Of course, sense "if it bleeds, it leads", the most dramatic stuff gets the most coverage, so the perception is that it is more prevalent than it is. For example:

"Oh, my God." People say. We have to do something. But wait there's more:

So, more shootings at school, but fewer murders overall. So, what gives?
Well....

Hum... So, In 1990, we banned guns in schools, and 15 or so years later the school shooting rate had more than doubled? Seems to be a correlation here, at least casually. Who's giving you these things to even think about? Noone. Everyone, in the MSM is trying to gin up support for "their side" so they won't give you all the facts. See where I'm going here?

Didn't think so. We have gotten lazy and comfortable with the state of things in our country. People want their "news" in 144 characters or less. "I don't have time to do the work myself" seems to be what most people are hiding behind. I say "hiding behind" because that is exactly what we are doing, I include myself in this. Ask yourself, "What is more important than leaving society in better, or at least the same, condition than you found it in?" Work? Friends? A new car? Kids? Ok, I'll give you kids, nothing comes before them. Seriously, what are you soo busy with that you cannot find the time to make sure you are leaving your kids with something better than you had. I'm not talking about stuff, money, education, etc. I'm talking about a country and society that is such that the rest of it even matters. Our founders wrote, "...we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor." What are YOU willing to pledge to YOUR country? Do you think you could spare an hour or two a week? Others are pledging their LIVES, think you could spare a few MINUTES of yours?

Very well thought out post, and though we don't agree on every point, we certainly agree in the overall conclusions to be drawn.

Yesterday a group of Maxine Waters supporters gathered outside her office to protest a group of Oathkeepers who were reportedly going to gather there. (Oathkeepers pretty much invariably stage legal, law abiding, and peaceful demonstrations/protests.) No Oathkeepers showed up, but Maxine's supporters blocked a passing pickup, terrorized the driver, ripped an American flag off it, and proceeded to trample and burn the flag. Maxine Waters, a sitting congresswoman, offered no rebuke to the flag burners, but issued her official statement: “The Oath Keepers would like nothing more than to inflame racial tensions and create an explosive conflict in our community.”

And that is where we are. A nation in which leaders condone behavior like that, even applaud it, who do nothing to speak out against those who would assault people in theaters, restaurants, and other public places and deny them to enjoy themselves in peace. A nation in which leaders do not speak out against censorship of 'unpopular' opinion, violent crowds assaulting, blocking entrance to, and/or shouting down any who would presume to offer an 'unpopular' point of view even when invited to do so.

And because there is no leadership on one side of the national conversation/debate willing to call for diversity and inclusiveness, let alone lawfulness and civility, the national environment becomes increasingly angry, lawless, hateful, threatening, disruptive, and on occasion dangerous.

The very Americans who once championed diversity and inclusiveness are now the most intolerant and militantly opposed to diversity and willing to actively attack any 'heretics' pretty much, with few exceptions, than any other people on the planet.

And that cannot be laid at the feet of the current President who has a vision of America at work again, providing opportunity and liberty for all again, an America that is prosperous, ambitious, hopeful, and confident in its future.

And that's why I voted for President Trump despite his totally unorthodox and on occasion obnoxious style of campaigning and governing. I didn't want a diplomat or a professional politician. I was sick and tired of a status quo that continued to erode our liberties and had the USA in a slow steady spiral of decline. I wanted somebody who would identify the root of the problems we have and who would be willing to act and lead us toward solutions. He has not disappointed.

You bemoan the actions of one group that uses aggressive means but voted for the guy who wanted protestors “roughed up” at his rallies. The hypocrisy is the truly only remarkable quality about your posts.

One extemporaneous quip at a campaign rally is hardly the same thing as armed thugs carrying pipe and bats planning to beat up peaceful demonstrators and actually stealing and burning an American flag. Or the Congresswoman they were supporting urging everybody to assault Trump cabinet members/supporters wherever they go in public.

 

[Foxfyre]

Fox I haven’t seen you in a long time. Hope you are doing well.

I didn’t see anything in the poll that I could pick, so let me wing it.

What is missing from most of these posts is context. I never started out with the person, I start out with the country, the constitution , our history and the best way of preserving these for future generations. For instance, no matter how “qualified” Hilary was she was for Hilary, not for America. Trump, in spite of his abrasive style, volunteered, let me say that again, volunteered to try and get the country back on an American track. In short, there are principles that need to be preserved AND promoted, American, constitutional, and liberty principles. All of us carry a torch that we have to pass on to the next generation. That is my yardstick for candidates.

None of this is a zero sum game. As the little socialist cutiein New York, shows, the us could have its own system used to overthrow itself. And she brought so many democratic socialists who are also elected officials out of the closet that the democrats have real election problems. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. Voting for the right candidates for the right reasons is part of eternal vigilance.

That is pretty much my position actually--I just am a lot wordier than you --except that I don't think Donald Trump is a despicable person. To me he is a flawed, imperfect person, as we all are to some extent. But I look at those that the Bible relates that God chose to do great things--not a perfect person in the lot. Some were deeply flawed. And I look at those figures in extra-Biblical and post-Biblical history who have literally changed the world for the better. All of those have been flawed, imperfect persons too, most who would never be deemed acceptable under modern political correctness criteria; some who would not be acceptable under most people's view of modern day morality. But the world benefited despite their 'despicableness.'

Donald Trump is often unlikable, is sometimes his own enemy, no doubt had done some despicable things. But I honestly think he knows what America most needs and is determined to do what he can to change the slow, steady downward spiral of decline that we have experienced for decades now. And whether his motive is his own legacy or a selfless love of America and Americans, I don't really care. He has offered a vision that I can embrace, and I for one am willing to do what I can to help him achieve it.

The world has often benefited and changed for the good by the vision of one person--somebody willing to step out of the status quo, i.e. one person with a different idea that caught on. Somebody once said that indeed no good significant change has ever happened any other way.

Also no bad significant change has ever happened any other way.

I am of the opinion that the President wants good change.

How many extramarital affairs would he have to have to become “Despicable”?
How many lies—not disagreements on policy but easily verifiable lies—does he have to tell before he becomes “Despicable”?

You'll have to cite the specific lie in order to know that. Has he wagged his finger in our faces declaring that the never had sex with that woman, Ms. Lewinsky and I never told anyone to lie? Did he go before the cameras to say again and again and again that if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor, etc. which was a bald faced lie and the President knew it?

We can go toe to toe on who lies the most or who is the more 'despicable', or we we can evaluate what the person is actually doing for the benefit of America and Americans.

 

[candycorn]

QUESTION: Without discussing President Trump or Hillary Clinton (or Bernie Sanders or Gary Johnson or Jill Stein) personally, was your vote strictly against somebody else? Or did you vote along party lines? Or did your vote and current support represent your opinions and/or deepest convictions, and/or hopes?

What is most important to you re the State of the Union at this time? What do you want the policy or direction to be?

My vote was primarily against TWO people. I didn't like Trump (he seemed too undiplomatic), and I fear the core principles of Clinton (which is to say she has none). So, I had to scout out the field, and held my nose when I voted for the 3rd party I thought had the best platform.

As to what I see as the most important issue of the day? Well, no one seems to want to talk much about it. And that is what is most concerning about it. There are many important issues today, from immigration, to Russia, to trade, North Korea, the list is quite long. However, has anyone else noticed that whenever these topics are discussed, the "discussion" inevitably breaks down? Insults are thrown, the flamethrowers come out, and no one is listening anymore. This has spilled out, in very dramatic fashion, into our national politics. Just look at the way the candidates on the Republican side treated each other. Then, the nominees, both Trump and Clinton (and to a lesser degree 3rd party people), followed suit. The country divided, mostly between Trump supporters and Clinton supporters, and tried to shout each other down. This happened on BOTH sides of that one. On one side you've got people calling Clinton a criminal, and on the other side you've got people calling Trump a Nazi/Fascist. Is either accusation true and correct? No, Trump is a LOT of things, fascist is not one of them, likewise Clinton (whether or not she did something illegal, ie state secrets on a private server...)has NEVER been convicted of a thing. Yet the clashes continue. Why? Simple, most people have chosen a side, put their self-worth on the line (to varying degrees), and will defend "their side" regardless of facts, or reason. Some, I repeat in all caps, SOME people are even willing to go further than just words. Thankfully, this is a minority, regardless of what the MSM would have you believe, but a very loud and vocal minority. A still smaller percentage of these people have taken to threats, and even violence. Of course, sense "if it bleeds, it leads", the most dramatic stuff gets the most coverage, so the perception is that it is more prevalent than it is. For example:

"Oh, my God." People say. We have to do something. But wait there's more:

So, more shootings at school, but fewer murders overall. So, what gives?
Well....

Hum... So, In 1990, we banned guns in schools, and 15 or so years later the school shooting rate had more than doubled? Seems to be a correlation here, at least casually. Who's giving you these things to even think about? Noone. Everyone, in the MSM is trying to gin up support for "their side" so they won't give you all the facts. See where I'm going here?

Didn't think so. We have gotten lazy and comfortable with the state of things in our country. People want their "news" in 144 characters or less. "I don't have time to do the work myself" seems to be what most people are hiding behind. I say "hiding behind" because that is exactly what we are doing, I include myself in this. Ask yourself, "What is more important than leaving society in better, or at least the same, condition than you found it in?" Work? Friends? A new car? Kids? Ok, I'll give you kids, nothing comes before them. Seriously, what are you soo busy with that you cannot find the time to make sure you are leaving your kids with something better than you had. I'm not talking about stuff, money, education, etc. I'm talking about a country and society that is such that the rest of it even matters. Our founders wrote, "...we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor." What are YOU willing to pledge to YOUR country? Do you think you could spare an hour or two a week? Others are pledging their LIVES, think you could spare a few MINUTES of yours?

Very well thought out post, and though we don't agree on every point, we certainly agree in the overall conclusions to be drawn.

Yesterday a group of Maxine Waters supporters gathered outside her office to protest a group of Oathkeepers who were reportedly going to gather there. (Oathkeepers pretty much invariably stage legal, law abiding, and peaceful demonstrations/protests.) No Oathkeepers showed up, but Maxine's supporters blocked a passing pickup, terrorized the driver, ripped an American flag off it, and proceeded to trample and burn the flag. Maxine Waters, a sitting congresswoman, offered no rebuke to the flag burners, but issued her official statement: “The Oath Keepers would like nothing more than to inflame racial tensions and create an explosive conflict in our community.”

And that is where we are. A nation in which leaders condone behavior like that, even applaud it, who do nothing to speak out against those who would assault people in theaters, restaurants, and other public places and deny them to enjoy themselves in peace. A nation in which leaders do not speak out against censorship of 'unpopular' opinion, violent crowds assaulting, blocking entrance to, and/or shouting down any who would presume to offer an 'unpopular' point of view even when invited to do so.

And because there is no leadership on one side of the national conversation/debate willing to call for diversity and inclusiveness, let alone lawfulness and civility, the national environment becomes increasingly angry, lawless, hateful, threatening, disruptive, and on occasion dangerous.

The very Americans who once championed diversity and inclusiveness are now the most intolerant and militantly opposed to diversity and willing to actively attack any 'heretics' pretty much, with few exceptions, than any other people on the planet.

And that cannot be laid at the feet of the current President who has a vision of America at work again, providing opportunity and liberty for all again, an America that is prosperous, ambitious, hopeful, and confident in its future.

And that's why I voted for President Trump despite his totally unorthodox and on occasion obnoxious style of campaigning and governing. I didn't want a diplomat or a professional politician. I was sick and tired of a status quo that continued to erode our liberties and had the USA in a slow steady spiral of decline. I wanted somebody who would identify the root of the problems we have and who would be willing to act and lead us toward solutions. He has not disappointed.

You bemoan the actions of one group that uses aggressive means but voted for the guy who wanted protestors “roughed up” at his rallies. The hypocrisy is the truly only remarkable quality about your posts.

One extemporaneous quip at a campaign rally is hardly the same thing as armed thugs carrying pipe and bats planning to beat up peaceful demonstrators and actually stealing and burning an American flag. Or the Congresswoman they were supporting urging everybody to assault Trump cabinet members/supporters wherever they go in public.

Both Trump and Waters…as far as I can tell…so far in our discussion are at one statement supporting violence each; according to you. Right? There are many more instances of Trump calling for violence, saying he’ll take care of the thugs who commit the violence’s legal bills, bemoaning the protestors are not roughed up any longer by the police, etc… I can quote them if you like since you seem to be the only adult in America who doesn’t know about them. But lets keep it limited to this thread…okay?

So far in our discussion; the “score” is 1 to 1 (although I have yet to see any quote from Waters where she supports violence)

Why do you excuse Trump’s but criticize Waters? Isn’t it the same thing? It certainly is the same quantity and TTBOMK…Waters didn’t go as far as the blob.

As far as the supporters, a Trump supporter who was at the “Unite the Right” rallies in Charlottesville mowed down a woman with their car, injured dozens others and is in jail for murder. What is your germane equivalent from the left?

 

[Flash]

I voted against Crooked Hillary. Not having her elected was the main motivation for voting.

 

[candycorn]

Fox I haven’t seen you in a long time. Hope you are doing well.

I didn’t see anything in the poll that I could pick, so let me wing it.

What is missing from most of these posts is context. I never started out with the person, I start out with the country, the constitution , our history and the best way of preserving these for future generations. For instance, no matter how “qualified” Hilary was she was for Hilary, not for America. Trump, in spite of his abrasive style, volunteered, let me say that again, volunteered to try and get the country back on an American track. In short, there are principles that need to be preserved AND promoted, American, constitutional, and liberty principles. All of us carry a torch that we have to pass on to the next generation. That is my yardstick for candidates.

None of this is a zero sum game. As the little socialist cutiein New York, shows, the us could have its own system used to overthrow itself. And she brought so many democratic socialists who are also elected officials out of the closet that the democrats have real election problems. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. Voting for the right candidates for the right reasons is part of eternal vigilance.

That is pretty much my position actually--I just am a lot wordier than you --except that I don't think Donald Trump is a despicable person. To me he is a flawed, imperfect person, as we all are to some extent. But I look at those that the Bible relates that God chose to do great things--not a perfect person in the lot. Some were deeply flawed. And I look at those figures in extra-Biblical and post-Biblical history who have literally changed the world for the better. All of those have been flawed, imperfect persons too, most who would never be deemed acceptable under modern political correctness criteria; some who would not be acceptable under most people's view of modern day morality. But the world benefited despite their 'despicableness.'

Donald Trump is often unlikable, is sometimes his own enemy, no doubt had done some despicable things. But I honestly think he knows what America most needs and is determined to do what he can to change the slow, steady downward spiral of decline that we have experienced for decades now. And whether his motive is his own legacy or a selfless love of America and Americans, I don't really care. He has offered a vision that I can embrace, and I for one am willing to do what I can to help him achieve it.

The world has often benefited and changed for the good by the vision of one person--somebody willing to step out of the status quo, i.e. one person with a different idea that caught on. Somebody once said that indeed no good significant change has ever happened any other way.

Also no bad significant change has ever happened any other way.

I am of the opinion that the President wants good change.

How many extramarital affairs would he have to have to become “Despicable”?
How many lies—not disagreements on policy but easily verifiable lies—does he have to tell before he becomes “Despicable”?

You'll have to cite the specific lie in order to know that. Has he wagged his finger in our faces declaring that the never had sex with that woman, Ms. Lewinsky and I never told anyone to lie? Did he go before the cameras to say again and again and again that if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor, etc. which was a bald faced lie and the President knew it?

We can go toe to toe on who lies the most or who is the more 'despicable', or we we can evaluate what the person is actually doing for the benefit of America and Americans.

Hmmm…I thought you were going to keep this focused on why you voted for this person or that person? Bringing up a President who hasn’t even held office in this century is cute but it violates your own standards; faint though they may be.

So I have to chronicle the lies that Trump has told? You are going to play dumb and pretend that you’re not aware of his tweets claiming that his win was a “landslide”, that he won the popular vote, that NK has denuclearized, that the G7 signed an agreement agreeing to increase their contributions… Are you going to play dumb and pretend that he didn’t have extramarital affairs?

Bringing up Bill Clinton is cute but the thread YOU started is about why you voted for whom you did. Bill Clinton wasn’t on the ballot.
So lets stop with the silly comparisons on that front. If you want to bring up Hillary’s lies fine.

 

[Foxfyre]

QUESTION: Without discussing President Trump or Hillary Clinton (or Bernie Sanders or Gary Johnson or Jill Stein) personally, was your vote strictly against somebody else? Or did you vote along party lines? Or did your vote and current support represent your opinions and/or deepest convictions, and/or hopes?

What is most important to you re the State of the Union at this time? What do you want the policy or direction to be?

My vote was primarily against TWO people. I didn't like Trump (he seemed too undiplomatic), and I fear the core principles of Clinton (which is to say she has none). So, I had to scout out the field, and held my nose when I voted for the 3rd party I thought had the best platform.

As to what I see as the most important issue of the day? Well, no one seems to want to talk much about it. And that is what is most concerning about it. There are many important issues today, from immigration, to Russia, to trade, North Korea, the list is quite long. However, has anyone else noticed that whenever these topics are discussed, the "discussion" inevitably breaks down? Insults are thrown, the flamethrowers come out, and no one is listening anymore. This has spilled out, in very dramatic fashion, into our national politics. Just look at the way the candidates on the Republican side treated each other. Then, the nominees, both Trump and Clinton (and to a lesser degree 3rd party people), followed suit. The country divided, mostly between Trump supporters and Clinton supporters, and tried to shout each other down. This happened on BOTH sides of that one. On one side you've got people calling Clinton a criminal, and on the other side you've got people calling Trump a Nazi/Fascist. Is either accusation true and correct? No, Trump is a LOT of things, fascist is not one of them, likewise Clinton (whether or not she did something illegal, ie state secrets on a private server...)has NEVER been convicted of a thing. Yet the clashes continue. Why? Simple, most people have chosen a side, put their self-worth on the line (to varying degrees), and will defend "their side" regardless of facts, or reason. Some, I repeat in all caps, SOME people are even willing to go further than just words. Thankfully, this is a minority, regardless of what the MSM would have you believe, but a very loud and vocal minority. A still smaller percentage of these people have taken to threats, and even violence. Of course, sense "if it bleeds, it leads", the most dramatic stuff gets the most coverage, so the perception is that it is more prevalent than it is. For example:

"Oh, my God." People say. We have to do something. But wait there's more:

So, more shootings at school, but fewer murders overall. So, what gives?
Well....

Hum... So, In 1990, we banned guns in schools, and 15 or so years later the school shooting rate had more than doubled? Seems to be a correlation here, at least casually. Who's giving you these things to even think about? Noone. Everyone, in the MSM is trying to gin up support for "their side" so they won't give you all the facts. See where I'm going here?

Didn't think so. We have gotten lazy and comfortable with the state of things in our country. People want their "news" in 144 characters or less. "I don't have time to do the work myself" seems to be what most people are hiding behind. I say "hiding behind" because that is exactly what we are doing, I include myself in this. Ask yourself, "What is more important than leaving society in better, or at least the same, condition than you found it in?" Work? Friends? A new car? Kids? Ok, I'll give you kids, nothing comes before them. Seriously, what are you soo busy with that you cannot find the time to make sure you are leaving your kids with something better than you had. I'm not talking about stuff, money, education, etc. I'm talking about a country and society that is such that the rest of it even matters. Our founders wrote, "...we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor." What are YOU willing to pledge to YOUR country? Do you think you could spare an hour or two a week? Others are pledging their LIVES, think you could spare a few MINUTES of yours?

Very well thought out post, and though we don't agree on every point, we certainly agree in the overall conclusions to be drawn.

Yesterday a group of Maxine Waters supporters gathered outside her office to protest a group of Oathkeepers who were reportedly going to gather there. (Oathkeepers pretty much invariably stage legal, law abiding, and peaceful demonstrations/protests.) No Oathkeepers showed up, but Maxine's supporters blocked a passing pickup, terrorized the driver, ripped an American flag off it, and proceeded to trample and burn the flag. Maxine Waters, a sitting congresswoman, offered no rebuke to the flag burners, but issued her official statement: “The Oath Keepers would like nothing more than to inflame racial tensions and create an explosive conflict in our community.”

And that is where we are. A nation in which leaders condone behavior like that, even applaud it, who do nothing to speak out against those who would assault people in theaters, restaurants, and other public places and deny them to enjoy themselves in peace. A nation in which leaders do not speak out against censorship of 'unpopular' opinion, violent crowds assaulting, blocking entrance to, and/or shouting down any who would presume to offer an 'unpopular' point of view even when invited to do so.

And because there is no leadership on one side of the national conversation/debate willing to call for diversity and inclusiveness, let alone lawfulness and civility, the national environment becomes increasingly angry, lawless, hateful, threatening, disruptive, and on occasion dangerous.

The very Americans who once championed diversity and inclusiveness are now the most intolerant and militantly opposed to diversity and willing to actively attack any 'heretics' pretty much, with few exceptions, than any other people on the planet.

And that cannot be laid at the feet of the current President who has a vision of America at work again, providing opportunity and liberty for all again, an America that is prosperous, ambitious, hopeful, and confident in its future.

And that's why I voted for President Trump despite his totally unorthodox and on occasion obnoxious style of campaigning and governing. I didn't want a diplomat or a professional politician. I was sick and tired of a status quo that continued to erode our liberties and had the USA in a slow steady spiral of decline. I wanted somebody who would identify the root of the problems we have and who would be willing to act and lead us toward solutions. He has not disappointed.

You bemoan the actions of one group that uses aggressive means but voted for the guy who wanted protestors “roughed up” at his rallies. The hypocrisy is the truly only remarkable quality about your posts.

One extemporaneous quip at a campaign rally is hardly the same thing as armed thugs carrying pipe and bats planning to beat up peaceful demonstrators and actually stealing and burning an American flag. Or the Congresswoman they were supporting urging everybody to assault Trump cabinet members/supporters wherever they go in public.

Both Trump and Waters…as far as I can tell…so far in our discussion are at one statement supporting violence each; according to you. Right? There are many more instances of Trump calling for violence, saying he’ll take care of the thugs who commit the violence’s legal bills, bemoaning the protestors are not roughed up any longer by the police, etc… I can quote them if you like since you seem to be the only adult in America who doesn’t know about them. But lets keep it limited to this thread…okay?

So far in our discussion; the “score” is 1 to 1 (although I have yet to see any quote from Waters where she supports violence)

Why do you excuse Trump’s but criticize Waters? Isn’t it the same thing? It certainly is the same quantity and TTBOMK…Waters didn’t go as far as the blob.

As far as the supporters, a Trump supporter who was at the “Unite the Right” rallies in Charlottesville mowed down a woman with their car, injured dozens others and is in jail for murder. What is your germane equivalent from the left?

I see President Trump making one extemporaneous quip at a campaign rally that was blown all out of proportion and who has since that time made a point to urge careful and humane treatment of those ejected from his rallies and has unequivocally denounced the thugs and hoodlums who illegally obstruct traffic and businesses, terrorize, vandalize, loot, commit arson, assault and battery. And I see happy, smiling, enthusiastic, hopeful people showing up by the tens of thousands to his rallies and not once have I heard anybody at those rallies suggesting protests against the opposition.

I see Maxine Waters going to some length to encourage people to terrorize, shame, and prevent anybody who supports President Trump, particularly his staffers, from participating in any ordinary activities. And it was reported that her supporters who showed up at her California office this week were carrying bats and lengths of pipe.

Therein is the difference. And if you do not see one as worse than the other so be it.

 

[Foxfyre]

Fox I haven’t seen you in a long time. Hope you are doing well.

I didn’t see anything in the poll that I could pick, so let me wing it.

What is missing from most of these posts is context. I never started out with the person, I start out with the country, the constitution , our history and the best way of preserving these for future generations. For instance, no matter how “qualified” Hilary was she was for Hilary, not for America. Trump, in spite of his abrasive style, volunteered, let me say that again, volunteered to try and get the country back on an American track. In short, there are principles that need to be preserved AND promoted, American, constitutional, and liberty principles. All of us carry a torch that we have to pass on to the next generation. That is my yardstick for candidates.

None of this is a zero sum game. As the little socialist cutiein New York, shows, the us could have its own system used to overthrow itself. And she brought so many democratic socialists who are also elected officials out of the closet that the democrats have real election problems. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. Voting for the right candidates for the right reasons is part of eternal vigilance.

That is pretty much my position actually--I just am a lot wordier than you --except that I don't think Donald Trump is a despicable person. To me he is a flawed, imperfect person, as we all are to some extent. But I look at those that the Bible relates that God chose to do great things--not a perfect person in the lot. Some were deeply flawed. And I look at those figures in extra-Biblical and post-Biblical history who have literally changed the world for the better. All of those have been flawed, imperfect persons too, most who would never be deemed acceptable under modern political correctness criteria; some who would not be acceptable under most people's view of modern day morality. But the world benefited despite their 'despicableness.'

Donald Trump is often unlikable, is sometimes his own enemy, no doubt had done some despicable things. But I honestly think he knows what America most needs and is determined to do what he can to change the slow, steady downward spiral of decline that we have experienced for decades now. And whether his motive is his own legacy or a selfless love of America and Americans, I don't really care. He has offered a vision that I can embrace, and I for one am willing to do what I can to help him achieve it.

The world has often benefited and changed for the good by the vision of one person--somebody willing to step out of the status quo, i.e. one person with a different idea that caught on. Somebody once said that indeed no good significant change has ever happened any other way.

Also no bad significant change has ever happened any other way.

I am of the opinion that the President wants good change.

How many extramarital affairs would he have to have to become “Despicable”?
How many lies—not disagreements on policy but easily verifiable lies—does he have to tell before he becomes “Despicable”?

You'll have to cite the specific lie in order to know that. Has he wagged his finger in our faces declaring that the never had sex with that woman, Ms. Lewinsky and I never told anyone to lie? Did he go before the cameras to say again and again and again that if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor, etc. which was a bald faced lie and the President knew it?

We can go toe to toe on who lies the most or who is the more 'despicable', or we we can evaluate what the person is actually doing for the benefit of America and Americans.

Hmmm…I thought you were going to keep this focused on why you voted for this person or that person? Bringing up a President who hasn’t even held office in this century is cute but it violates your own standards; faint though they may be.

So I have to chronicle the lies that Trump has told? You are going to play dumb and pretend that you’re not aware of his tweets claiming that his win was a “landslide”, that he won the popular vote, that NK has denuclearized, that the G7 signed an agreement agreeing to increase their contributions… Are you going to play dumb and pretend that he didn’t have extramarital affairs?

Bringing up Bill Clinton is cute but the thread YOU started is about why you voted for whom you did. Bill Clinton wasn’t on the ballot.
So lets stop with the silly comparisons on that front. If you want to bring up Hillary’s lies fine.

I am pointing out the fallacy in the argument. That is all. I will discuss the actions of those who are serving the country, and I guarantee you Hillary's record is going to be a lot worse on that front than Trump's will be, but I won't trash the person and I ask that others do not also.

 

[eagle1462010]

I voted Against Hillary..............was unsure what Trump would bring.......but understood the consequences of Hillary winning.

My main concern. SCOTUS..........knowing at least 2 would happen during the next term.

I'm pleasantly surprised by Trump trying to keep his campaign promises.

 

[candycorn]

My vote was primarily against TWO people. I didn't like Trump (he seemed too undiplomatic), and I fear the core principles of Clinton (which is to say she has none). So, I had to scout out the field, and held my nose when I voted for the 3rd party I thought had the best platform.

As to what I see as the most important issue of the day? Well, no one seems to want to talk much about it. And that is what is most concerning about it. There are many important issues today, from immigration, to Russia, to trade, North Korea, the list is quite long. However, has anyone else noticed that whenever these topics are discussed, the "discussion" inevitably breaks down? Insults are thrown, the flamethrowers come out, and no one is listening anymore. This has spilled out, in very dramatic fashion, into our national politics. Just look at the way the candidates on the Republican side treated each other. Then, the nominees, both Trump and Clinton (and to a lesser degree 3rd party people), followed suit. The country divided, mostly between Trump supporters and Clinton supporters, and tried to shout each other down. This happened on BOTH sides of that one. On one side you've got people calling Clinton a criminal, and on the other side you've got people calling Trump a Nazi/Fascist. Is either accusation true and correct? No, Trump is a LOT of things, fascist is not one of them, likewise Clinton (whether or not she did something illegal, ie state secrets on a private server...)has NEVER been convicted of a thing. Yet the clashes continue. Why? Simple, most people have chosen a side, put their self-worth on the line (to varying degrees), and will defend "their side" regardless of facts, or reason. Some, I repeat in all caps, SOME people are even willing to go further than just words. Thankfully, this is a minority, regardless of what the MSM would have you believe, but a very loud and vocal minority. A still smaller percentage of these people have taken to threats, and even violence. Of course, sense "if it bleeds, it leads", the most dramatic stuff gets the most coverage, so the perception is that it is more prevalent than it is. For example:

"Oh, my God." People say. We have to do something. But wait there's more:

So, more shootings at school, but fewer murders overall. So, what gives?
Well....

Hum... So, In 1990, we banned guns in schools, and 15 or so years later the school shooting rate had more than doubled? Seems to be a correlation here, at least casually. Who's giving you these things to even think about? Noone. Everyone, in the MSM is trying to gin up support for "their side" so they won't give you all the facts. See where I'm going here?

Didn't think so. We have gotten lazy and comfortable with the state of things in our country. People want their "news" in 144 characters or less. "I don't have time to do the work myself" seems to be what most people are hiding behind. I say "hiding behind" because that is exactly what we are doing, I include myself in this. Ask yourself, "What is more important than leaving society in better, or at least the same, condition than you found it in?" Work? Friends? A new car? Kids? Ok, I'll give you kids, nothing comes before them. Seriously, what are you soo busy with that you cannot find the time to make sure you are leaving your kids with something better than you had. I'm not talking about stuff, money, education, etc. I'm talking about a country and society that is such that the rest of it even matters. Our founders wrote, "...we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor." What are YOU willing to pledge to YOUR country? Do you think you could spare an hour or two a week? Others are pledging their LIVES, think you could spare a few MINUTES of yours?

Very well thought out post, and though we don't agree on every point, we certainly agree in the overall conclusions to be drawn.

Yesterday a group of Maxine Waters supporters gathered outside her office to protest a group of Oathkeepers who were reportedly going to gather there. (Oathkeepers pretty much invariably stage legal, law abiding, and peaceful demonstrations/protests.) No Oathkeepers showed up, but Maxine's supporters blocked a passing pickup, terrorized the driver, ripped an American flag off it, and proceeded to trample and burn the flag. Maxine Waters, a sitting congresswoman, offered no rebuke to the flag burners, but issued her official statement: “The Oath Keepers would like nothing more than to inflame racial tensions and create an explosive conflict in our community.”

And that is where we are. A nation in which leaders condone behavior like that, even applaud it, who do nothing to speak out against those who would assault people in theaters, restaurants, and other public places and deny them to enjoy themselves in peace. A nation in which leaders do not speak out against censorship of 'unpopular' opinion, violent crowds assaulting, blocking entrance to, and/or shouting down any who would presume to offer an 'unpopular' point of view even when invited to do so.

And because there is no leadership on one side of the national conversation/debate willing to call for diversity and inclusiveness, let alone lawfulness and civility, the national environment becomes increasingly angry, lawless, hateful, threatening, disruptive, and on occasion dangerous.

The very Americans who once championed diversity and inclusiveness are now the most intolerant and militantly opposed to diversity and willing to actively attack any 'heretics' pretty much, with few exceptions, than any other people on the planet.

And that cannot be laid at the feet of the current President who has a vision of America at work again, providing opportunity and liberty for all again, an America that is prosperous, ambitious, hopeful, and confident in its future.

And that's why I voted for President Trump despite his totally unorthodox and on occasion obnoxious style of campaigning and governing. I didn't want a diplomat or a professional politician. I was sick and tired of a status quo that continued to erode our liberties and had the USA in a slow steady spiral of decline. I wanted somebody who would identify the root of the problems we have and who would be willing to act and lead us toward solutions. He has not disappointed.

You bemoan the actions of one group that uses aggressive means but voted for the guy who wanted protestors “roughed up” at his rallies. The hypocrisy is the truly only remarkable quality about your posts.

One extemporaneous quip at a campaign rally is hardly the same thing as armed thugs carrying pipe and bats planning to beat up peaceful demonstrators and actually stealing and burning an American flag. Or the Congresswoman they were supporting urging everybody to assault Trump cabinet members/supporters wherever they go in public.

Both Trump and Waters…as far as I can tell…so far in our discussion are at one statement supporting violence each; according to you. Right? There are many more instances of Trump calling for violence, saying he’ll take care of the thugs who commit the violence’s legal bills, bemoaning the protestors are not roughed up any longer by the police, etc… I can quote them if you like since you seem to be the only adult in America who doesn’t know about them. But lets keep it limited to this thread…okay?

So far in our discussion; the “score” is 1 to 1 (although I have yet to see any quote from Waters where she supports violence)

Why do you excuse Trump’s but criticize Waters? Isn’t it the same thing? It certainly is the same quantity and TTBOMK…Waters didn’t go as far as the blob.

As far as the supporters, a Trump supporter who was at the “Unite the Right” rallies in Charlottesville mowed down a woman with their car, injured dozens others and is in jail for murder. What is your germane equivalent from the left?

I see President Trump making one extemporaneous quip at a campaign rally that was blown all out of proportion and who has since that time made a point to urge careful and humane treatment of those ejected from his rallies and has unequivocally denounced the thugs and hoodlums who illegally obstruct traffic and businesses, terrorize, vandalize, loot, commit arson, assault and battery. And I see happy, smiling, enthusiastic, hopeful people showing up by the tens of thousands to his rallies and not once have I heard anybody at those rallies suggesting protests against the opposition.

I see Maxine Waters going to some length to encourage people to terrorize, shame, and prevent anybody who supports President Trump, particularly his staffers, from participating in any ordinary activities. And it was reported that her supporters who showed up at her California office this week were carrying bats and lengths of pipe.

Therein is the difference. And if you do not see one as worse than the other so be it.

Yes, trump supporters murdered someone. Big difference. Are you seriously going to pretend the blob only did it once—incited violence?

 

[Foxfyre]

Very well thought out post, and though we don't agree on every point, we certainly agree in the overall conclusions to be drawn.

Yesterday a group of Maxine Waters supporters gathered outside her office to protest a group of Oathkeepers who were reportedly going to gather there. (Oathkeepers pretty much invariably stage legal, law abiding, and peaceful demonstrations/protests.) No Oathkeepers showed up, but Maxine's supporters blocked a passing pickup, terrorized the driver, ripped an American flag off it, and proceeded to trample and burn the flag. Maxine Waters, a sitting congresswoman, offered no rebuke to the flag burners, but issued her official statement: “The Oath Keepers would like nothing more than to inflame racial tensions and create an explosive conflict in our community.”

And that is where we are. A nation in which leaders condone behavior like that, even applaud it, who do nothing to speak out against those who would assault people in theaters, restaurants, and other public places and deny them to enjoy themselves in peace. A nation in which leaders do not speak out against censorship of 'unpopular' opinion, violent crowds assaulting, blocking entrance to, and/or shouting down any who would presume to offer an 'unpopular' point of view even when invited to do so.

And because there is no leadership on one side of the national conversation/debate willing to call for diversity and inclusiveness, let alone lawfulness and civility, the national environment becomes increasingly angry, lawless, hateful, threatening, disruptive, and on occasion dangerous.

The very Americans who once championed diversity and inclusiveness are now the most intolerant and militantly opposed to diversity and willing to actively attack any 'heretics' pretty much, with few exceptions, than any other people on the planet.

And that cannot be laid at the feet of the current President who has a vision of America at work again, providing opportunity and liberty for all again, an America that is prosperous, ambitious, hopeful, and confident in its future.

And that's why I voted for President Trump despite his totally unorthodox and on occasion obnoxious style of campaigning and governing. I didn't want a diplomat or a professional politician. I was sick and tired of a status quo that continued to erode our liberties and had the USA in a slow steady spiral of decline. I wanted somebody who would identify the root of the problems we have and who would be willing to act and lead us toward solutions. He has not disappointed.

You bemoan the actions of one group that uses aggressive means but voted for the guy who wanted protestors “roughed up” at his rallies. The hypocrisy is the truly only remarkable quality about your posts.

One extemporaneous quip at a campaign rally is hardly the same thing as armed thugs carrying pipe and bats planning to beat up peaceful demonstrators and actually stealing and burning an American flag. Or the Congresswoman they were supporting urging everybody to assault Trump cabinet members/supporters wherever they go in public.

Both Trump and Waters…as far as I can tell…so far in our discussion are at one statement supporting violence each; according to you. Right? There are many more instances of Trump calling for violence, saying he’ll take care of the thugs who commit the violence’s legal bills, bemoaning the protestors are not roughed up any longer by the police, etc… I can quote them if you like since you seem to be the only adult in America who doesn’t know about them. But lets keep it limited to this thread…okay?

So far in our discussion; the “score” is 1 to 1 (although I have yet to see any quote from Waters where she supports violence)

Why do you excuse Trump’s but criticize Waters? Isn’t it the same thing? It certainly is the same quantity and TTBOMK…Waters didn’t go as far as the blob.

As far as the supporters, a Trump supporter who was at the “Unite the Right” rallies in Charlottesville mowed down a woman with their car, injured dozens others and is in jail for murder. What is your germane equivalent from the left?

I see President Trump making one extemporaneous quip at a campaign rally that was blown all out of proportion and who has since that time made a point to urge careful and humane treatment of those ejected from his rallies and has unequivocally denounced the thugs and hoodlums who illegally obstruct traffic and businesses, terrorize, vandalize, loot, commit arson, assault and battery. And I see happy, smiling, enthusiastic, hopeful people showing up by the tens of thousands to his rallies and not once have I heard anybody at those rallies suggesting protests against the opposition.

I see Maxine Waters going to some length to encourage people to terrorize, shame, and prevent anybody who supports President Trump, particularly his staffers, from participating in any ordinary activities. And it was reported that her supporters who showed up at her California office this week were carrying bats and lengths of pipe.

Therein is the difference. And if you do not see one as worse than the other so be it.

Yes, trump supporters murdered someone. Big difference. Are you seriously going to pretend the blob only did it once—incited violence?

They did? Who was that? I expect a reliable source for that one too.

 

[candycorn]

You bemoan the actions of one group that uses aggressive means but voted for the guy who wanted protestors “roughed up” at his rallies. The hypocrisy is the truly only remarkable quality about your posts.

One extemporaneous quip at a campaign rally is hardly the same thing as armed thugs carrying pipe and bats planning to beat up peaceful demonstrators and actually stealing and burning an American flag. Or the Congresswoman they were supporting urging everybody to assault Trump cabinet members/supporters wherever they go in public.

Both Trump and Waters…as far as I can tell…so far in our discussion are at one statement supporting violence each; according to you. Right? There are many more instances of Trump calling for violence, saying he’ll take care of the thugs who commit the violence’s legal bills, bemoaning the protestors are not roughed up any longer by the police, etc… I can quote them if you like since you seem to be the only adult in America who doesn’t know about them. But lets keep it limited to this thread…okay?

So far in our discussion; the “score” is 1 to 1 (although I have yet to see any quote from Waters where she supports violence)

Why do you excuse Trump’s but criticize Waters? Isn’t it the same thing? It certainly is the same quantity and TTBOMK…Waters didn’t go as far as the blob.

As far as the supporters, a Trump supporter who was at the “Unite the Right” rallies in Charlottesville mowed down a woman with their car, injured dozens others and is in jail for murder. What is your germane equivalent from the left?

I see President Trump making one extemporaneous quip at a campaign rally that was blown all out of proportion and who has since that time made a point to urge careful and humane treatment of those ejected from his rallies and has unequivocally denounced the thugs and hoodlums who illegally obstruct traffic and businesses, terrorize, vandalize, loot, commit arson, assault and battery. And I see happy, smiling, enthusiastic, hopeful people showing up by the tens of thousands to his rallies and not once have I heard anybody at those rallies suggesting protests against the opposition.

I see Maxine Waters going to some length to encourage people to terrorize, shame, and prevent anybody who supports President Trump, particularly his staffers, from participating in any ordinary activities. And it was reported that her supporters who showed up at her California office this week were carrying bats and lengths of pipe.

Therein is the difference. And if you do not see one as worse than the other so be it.

Yes, trump supporters murdered someone. Big difference. Are you seriously going to pretend the blob only did it once—incited violence?

They did? Who was that? I expect a reliable source for that one too.

Fact check. Org is the source

James Alex Fields Archives - FactCheck.org

 

[martybegan]

To me the biggest issue unfortunately was the Supreme Court. Giving Democrats the chance to make the court more progressive was to be avoided at all costs, hence my Trump Vote.

 

[Foxfyre]

One extemporaneous quip at a campaign rally is hardly the same thing as armed thugs carrying pipe and bats planning to beat up peaceful demonstrators and actually stealing and burning an American flag. Or the Congresswoman they were supporting urging everybody to assault Trump cabinet members/supporters wherever they go in public.

Both Trump and Waters…as far as I can tell…so far in our discussion are at one statement supporting violence each; according to you. Right? There are many more instances of Trump calling for violence, saying he’ll take care of the thugs who commit the violence’s legal bills, bemoaning the protestors are not roughed up any longer by the police, etc… I can quote them if you like since you seem to be the only adult in America who doesn’t know about them. But lets keep it limited to this thread…okay?

So far in our discussion; the “score” is 1 to 1 (although I have yet to see any quote from Waters where she supports violence)

Why do you excuse Trump’s but criticize Waters? Isn’t it the same thing? It certainly is the same quantity and TTBOMK…Waters didn’t go as far as the blob.

As far as the supporters, a Trump supporter who was at the “Unite the Right” rallies in Charlottesville mowed down a woman with their car, injured dozens others and is in jail for murder. What is your germane equivalent from the left?

I see President Trump making one extemporaneous quip at a campaign rally that was blown all out of proportion and who has since that time made a point to urge careful and humane treatment of those ejected from his rallies and has unequivocally denounced the thugs and hoodlums who illegally obstruct traffic and businesses, terrorize, vandalize, loot, commit arson, assault and battery. And I see happy, smiling, enthusiastic, hopeful people showing up by the tens of thousands to his rallies and not once have I heard anybody at those rallies suggesting protests against the opposition.

I see Maxine Waters going to some length to encourage people to terrorize, shame, and prevent anybody who supports President Trump, particularly his staffers, from participating in any ordinary activities. And it was reported that her supporters who showed up at her California office this week were carrying bats and lengths of pipe.

Therein is the difference. And if you do not see one as worse than the other so be it.

Yes, trump supporters murdered someone. Big difference. Are you seriously going to pretend the blob only did it once—incited violence?

They did? Who was that? I expect a reliable source for that one too.

Fact check. Org is the source

James Alex Fields Archives - FactCheck.org

Oh well, if you are going to indict the entire Republican party, everybody on the right, and the entire Trump Administration for the act of one hateful person, we could go with a lot of counter examples of that:

1. The Las Vegas shooter targeting a conservative gathering
2. A hateful leftist targeting Republicans at a baseball practice
3. A Black Lives Matters supporter sniping and killing police officers from a rooftop

There is a long LONG list we could keep adding on here.

So I suggest you give up trying to argue your point on that score as you will clearly lose.

I might add that the Trump Administrations response to that Charlottesville unconscionable act:

. . .Fields was indicted on one federal count of a hate crime resulting in Heyer's death, 28 counts of hate crimes for causing bodily injury and involving an attempt to kill and one count of racially motivated violent interference with a federally protected activity.

The grand jury was sitting in the U.S. District Court for the Western District of Virginia in Charlottesville.

In announcing the indictment, Attorney General Jeff Sessions said his department has determined that "hateful ideologies will not have the last word and their adherents will not get away with violent crimes against those they target."

Sessions said the indictment "should send a clear message to every would-be criminal in America that we aggressively prosecute violent crimes of hate that threaten the core principles of our nation." . . .
Driver accused of plowing into crowd at Charlottesville rally charged with federal hate crimes​

 

[Circe]

it seems obvious to me that Trump supporters and those who voted for Hillary or somebody else are just wired differently.

What is most important to you re the State of the Union at this time?

Most important to me is the level of violence, hostility, and uncivility of the Left toward the Right. I find it bewildering and upsetting. I'm working very hard learning to cope with it.

Yes, the two sides are "wired differently," in the sense that the Left identifies with poor people, and the Right identifies with rich people.

It's not about whether someone IS rich or poor -- it's simply about who we identify with: the poor (oppressed, downtrodden, maltreated according to their narrative) or the rich (civil, high-level accomplishments, orderly, law-abiding). This disjunct is the same as in the Civil War when Southerners who did not own slaves nevertheless identified with slave-owners and fought the war on their side.

 

[Circe]

My main concern. SCOTUS..........knowing at least 2 would happen during the next term.

I'm pleasantly surprised by Trump trying to keep his campaign promises.

I'm predicting five justices. They have really been hanging on: in the natural course of things, I can't see how at least three more of them can keep going much longer.

I'd like to see a few months pass between justices, however, or there is likely to be trouble.

 

[Circe]

I voted FOR Trump AND FOR his policies. I had no plans to vote in 2016 election until President Trump jumped in. If he hadn't run I would not have voted...

Huh! I thought I was the only one who felt like that. I hadn't voted in the previous two elections: disgusted with the candidates. They want me to play democracy, let them produce somebody good. Finally, someone good ran.

 

[Foxfyre]

it seems obvious to me that Trump supporters and those who voted for Hillary or somebody else are just wired differently.

What is most important to you re the State of the Union at this time?

Most important to me is the level of violence, hostility, and uncivility of the Left toward the Right. I find it bewildering and upsetting. I'm working very hard learning to cope with it.

Yes, the two sides are "wired differently," in the sense that the Left identifies with poor people, and the Right identifies with rich people.

It's not about whether someone IS rich or poor -- it's simply about who we identify with: the poor (oppressed, downtrodden, maltreated according to their narrative) or the rich (civil, high-level accomplishments, orderly, law-abiding). This disjunct is the same as in the Civil War when Southerners who did not own slaves nevertheless identified with slave-owners and fought the war on their side.

I agree with you re violence, hostility, incivility of the left 100% and will add 'intolerance' as the most significant trait identifying the left in America these days.

I do not agree that the right identifies with rich people and the poor identify with poor people. If that was the case, the left would be doing something to lead or drive poor people out of poverty instead of making them more comfortable in poverty and/or encouraging more of it via making them more dependent on government, not to mention pushing for open borders and many many more poor people flooding into the country who will then keep the left in power.

The left has pretty well abandoned working class America and instead cater to the poor and angry minorities as their most dependable voting block--they make them all kinds of promises that never quite seem to materialize once the election is over. And they cater to America's richest which explains why the 10 cities with the most millionaires are all bright blue cities. When the left promotes taxing the rich to help the poor, they know full well that they won't hurt the rich in any way. Who they will hurt are working Americans, the corporations who hire most of middle America, and make it much easier for big business to squash its smaller competition.

President Trump tapped into that reality with an understanding no Democrat and few Republicans have ever expressed. Middle America, for the first time in a long time, heard THEIR issues and values discussed and addressed with a vision providing real solutions to real problems. And he was elected for that reason.

He has not disappointed.

 

[Asclepias]

I was in a real pickle. I didnt want to vote for Hilary but I knew Drumpf was a carnival barker, racist, and buffoon so a vote for an Independent candidate was dangerous.

 

[candycorn]

Both Trump and Waters…as far as I can tell…so far in our discussion are at one statement supporting violence each; according to you. Right? There are many more instances of Trump calling for violence, saying he’ll take care of the thugs who commit the violence’s legal bills, bemoaning the protestors are not roughed up any longer by the police, etc… I can quote them if you like since you seem to be the only adult in America who doesn’t know about them. But lets keep it limited to this thread…okay?

So far in our discussion; the “score” is 1 to 1 (although I have yet to see any quote from Waters where she supports violence)

Why do you excuse Trump’s but criticize Waters? Isn’t it the same thing? It certainly is the same quantity and TTBOMK…Waters didn’t go as far as the blob.

As far as the supporters, a Trump supporter who was at the “Unite the Right” rallies in Charlottesville mowed down a woman with their car, injured dozens others and is in jail for murder. What is your germane equivalent from the left?

I see President Trump making one extemporaneous quip at a campaign rally that was blown all out of proportion and who has since that time made a point to urge careful and humane treatment of those ejected from his rallies and has unequivocally denounced the thugs and hoodlums who illegally obstruct traffic and businesses, terrorize, vandalize, loot, commit arson, assault and battery. And I see happy, smiling, enthusiastic, hopeful people showing up by the tens of thousands to his rallies and not once have I heard anybody at those rallies suggesting protests against the opposition.

I see Maxine Waters going to some length to encourage people to terrorize, shame, and prevent anybody who supports President Trump, particularly his staffers, from participating in any ordinary activities. And it was reported that her supporters who showed up at her California office this week were carrying bats and lengths of pipe.

Therein is the difference. And if you do not see one as worse than the other so be it.

Yes, trump supporters murdered someone. Big difference. Are you seriously going to pretend the blob only did it once—incited violence?

They did? Who was that? I expect a reliable source for that one too.

Fact check. Org is the source

James Alex Fields Archives - FactCheck.org

Oh well, if you are going to indict the entire Republican party, everybody on the right, and the entire Trump Administration for the act of one hateful person, we could go with a lot of counter examples of that:

1. The Las Vegas shooter targeting a conservative gathering
2. A hateful leftist targeting Republicans at a baseball practice
3. A Black Lives Matters supporter sniping and killing police officers from a rooftop

There is a long LONG list we could keep adding on here.

So I suggest you give up trying to argue your point on that score as you will clearly lose.

I might add that the Trump Administrations response to that Charlottesville unconscionable act:

. . .Fields was indicted on one federal count of a hate crime resulting in Heyer's death, 28 counts of hate crimes for causing bodily injury and involving an attempt to kill and one count of racially motivated violent interference with a federally protected activity.

The grand jury was sitting in the U.S. District Court for the Western District of Virginia in Charlottesville.

In announcing the indictment, Attorney General Jeff Sessions said his department has determined that "hateful ideologies will not have the last word and their adherents will not get away with violent crimes against those they target."

Sessions said the indictment "should send a clear message to every would-be criminal in America that we aggressively prosecute violent crimes of hate that threaten the core principles of our nation." . . .
Driver accused of plowing into crowd at Charlottesville rally charged with federal hate crimes​

You of course left out the folks chanting the Aryan slogan “Jews will not replace us” as they carried torches; you know...the same people the blob called “very fine people”

But thanks for acknowledging that the Cons and the Libs both have idiots. The question you will not answer is why you give folks like the accused murderer Fields a pass but cite the comparatively superficial things Maxine and her followers did. Don’t you think it is a double standard you have there?