Why is it so hard to have a civil discussion in the Israel/Palestine forum?

[Dogmaphobe]

Anger, name calling, personal attacks, whining, demanding "proof" rather that offering it to support their point of view.
If you can't attack the messenger, attack the facts. If you can't attack the facts, attack the logic.
Weren't we warned about this in 6th grade debate?

I don't think you are really being fair to Billo, there, Aris.


How can he be expected to know what was covered in classes so far beyond those he ever reached?

 

[High_Gravity]

I guess it goes without saying this is the most volatile forum at USMB? I don't think I've seen one thread where a shouting match didn't occur at some point. There is so much vitriol, one would think you'd have an "Enter at your own risk" sign on the first webpage before entering. I'm wondering why a lack of civility is so prevalent? And yes, I know, I'm one of the biggest violators of that. If there was a "Biggest Prick in the Forum" contest, I would probably make the meddle round.

If you were going to name whom (or what) is responsible for the consistently deteriorating discord, who (or what) would it be?

the Zionists?
the anti-Zionists?
the Americans?
the Israeli's?
the Muslims?
the Jews?
the pro-Palestine crowd?
the pro-Israeli crowd?
human nature?
the seriousness of the topics being discussed?​

If you had to put your finger on one thing that is preventing issues in this forum from being discussed in a civil, respectful manner, without all the emotional outbursts and name-calling, what would it be?

​

Its a very controversial/personal subject for many in there and honestly some of the posts from the Pro Palestinian crown are just ridiculous.

 

[aris2chat]

BBC ON THIS DAY 18 1991 Iraqi Scud missiles hit Israel

Gulf War - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Section 6

http://web.mit.edu/ssp/publications/working_papers/wp93-2.pdf

Section 4

Retraumatization of Holocaust survivors during the Gulf War and SCU... - PubMed - NCBI

Israeli Response SCUD Attack Video C-SPAN.org

CBC Digital Archives - The 1991 Gulf War part one - Scud vs. Patriot missiles

I thank you for your response and condemn the Iraqi rocket attack. I don't see what the Persian Gulf war had anything to do with Israel.

Don't you remember Hussein was going to annihilate Israel at the time. Why? Any time there's trouble in the ME, Arabs blame it on Jews.That's why.

Don't you remember, Saddam was paying $30,000 per Palestinian Arab family for any member of said family to become a suicide bomber in Israel?

Salaries For Suicide Bombers - CBS News

BBC NEWS Middle East Palestinians get Saddam funds

 

[Alex.]

I answered as best I could.

You didn't answer a direct question, that's no answer at all. And if you provided no answer at all, you certainly couldn't do your "best" at it, now can you?

You call me names and ask why there can be no civil discussion. I think you are one reason why there is no civil discussion. I have done nothing to you that you should call me names.

I didn't call you names. I said the only ones who don't answer direct questions are trolls. That's not calling you a name, that's stating a fact.

You are a perfect example of why there is no civil discourse in this forum. You refuse to have a conversation; insist on playing word games; won't answer direct questions; won't specifically address opposing points; takes every opportunity to mis-direct and mis-inform; and rather than debate the issue, choose to pontificate your views from a soap box.

That's why there's no civil discourse, because you have no intention of debating.

I debated your OP you wanted to introduce irrelevancies which I did answer and then call me names. You called me a troll. This is why there can be no civil discussion, because of the types of things you do.

Like I said, this whole thread is a joke. The person who started it is the number one cause of why we can't have a civil conversation.

I am beginning to believe you. I took him and his OP seriously and all that happened was him calling me names.

 

[Coyote]

I answered whatever valid points you may have made, you then called me a troll. Now you have your answer why there can be no civil discussion in the Israel/Palestine forum.

What post did you comment on the 3 examples? What post did you answer my direct question on the ceasefires? Those are direct questions. The only ones who don't answer direct questions, are trolls.

I answered as best I could. You call me names and ask why there can be no civil discussion. I think you are one reason why there is no civil discussion. I have done nothing to you that you should call me names.

Anger, name calling, personal attacks, whining, demanding "proof" rather that offering it to support their point of view.
If you can't attack the messenger, attack the facts. If you can't attack the facts, attack the logic.
Weren't we warned about this in 6th grade debate?

I see plenty of that from the Pro-Israeli crowd.

Don't think there is much difference.

 

[Billo_Really]

I debated your OP you wanted to introduce irrelevancies which I did answer

Irrelevancies? You said the Pals didn't seek civil resolutions to the conflict and I provided 3 examples where they did and no, you didn't address them. In addition, I asked you a direct question (twice) and you refused to answer that.

You do realize when you say you "answered" them, anyone can go back and see for themselves that you didn't?

and then call me names. You called me a troll. This is why there can be no civil discussion, because of the types of things you do.

I didn't call you a troll, I said trolls don't answer direct questions. It's not my fault you chose to personalize that statement.

So far, all you've done is make general, blanket statements. You're playing word games. You know it and I know it.

 

[Billo_Really]

Like I said, this whole thread is a joke. The person who started it is the number one cause of why we can't have a civil conversation.

Between the two of us in this thread, you've gone off 3 or 4 times and I've gone off "0".

 

[Billo_Really]

Anger, name calling, personal attacks, whining, demanding "proof" rather that offering it to support their point of view.
If you can't attack the messenger, attack the facts. If you can't attack the facts, attack the logic.
Weren't we warned about this in 6th grade debate?

If you can't attack the messenger?

I was told you're not supposed to attack the messenger.

 

[Alex.]

I debated your OP you wanted to introduce irrelevancies which I did answer

Irrelevancies? You said the Pals didn't seek civil resolutions to the conflict and I provided 3 examples where they did and no, you didn't address them. In addition, I asked you a direct question (twice) and you refused to answer that.

You do realize when you say you "answered" them, anyone can go back and see for themselves that you didn't?

and then call me names. You called me a troll. This is why there can be no civil discussion, because of the types of things you do.

I didn't call you a troll, I said trolls don't answer direct questions. It's not my fault you chose to personalize that statement.

So far, all you've done is make general, blanket statements. You're playing word games. You know it and I know it.

You called me a troll and accused me of playing "word games" because you do not like my answers. This is imbecilic and a good reason why there cannot be civil discussion.

 

[Billo_Really]

like the three monkeys, he shuts out what he does not want to know

If you're referring to me, what did I shut out?

This is another reason you can't have civil discourse, people choose to make up stuff about what someone said.

 

[Billo_Really]

You called me a troll and accused me of playing "word games" because you do not like my answers. This is imbecilic and a good reason why there cannot be civil discussion.

You are playing word games and what post did I call you that?

That's another direct question you won't answer.

BTW, in order to answer a question, you have to specifically address it. You haven't specifically addressed anything.

 

[Alex.]

Like I said, this whole thread is a joke. The person who started it is the number one cause of why we can't have a civil conversation.

Between the two of us in this thread, you've gone off 3 or 4 times and I've gone off "0".

Each time you post in this thread you seem to be getting off by the attention you receive when you insult someone.

 

[Billo_Really]

Each time you post in this thread you seem to be getting off by the attention you receive when you insult someone.

That's more about you, than it is about me.

That's your perception, your choice to think that, own it!

 

[Roudy]

Like I said, this whole thread is a joke. The person who started it is the number one cause of why we can't have a civil conversation.

Between the two of us in this thread, you've gone off 3 or 4 times and I've gone off "0".

You mean all that BS and lies about Israel in a thread about civility?

Yeah, I lost count how many times you went off your rockers.

 

[Billo_Really]

You mean all that BS and lies about Israel in a thread about civility?

Yeah, I lost count how many times you went off your rockers.

No, I mean between you and I, you're the only one who's gone off on rant against someone. In fact, your first post was a flame.

So far, I've kept my word. I haven't unloaded on anyone. And you know just how bad I can get. There haven't been any of those posts in this thread.

 

[Billo_Really]

Its a very controversial/personal subject for many in there and honestly some of the posts from the Pro Palestinian crown are just ridiculous.

Are you saying there are no ridiculous posts from the pro-Israeli side?

 

[Roudy]

You mean all that BS and lies about Israel in a thread about civility?

Yeah, I lost count how many times you went off your rockers.

No, I mean between you and I, you're the only one who's gone off on rant against someone. In fact, your first post was a flame.

So far, I've kept my word. I haven't unloaded on anyone. And you know just how bad I can get. There haven't been any of those posts in this thread.

So we should simply discount all your past trolling, verbal attacks, insults and profanity, just because suddenly you opened this ridiculously hypocritical thread?

 

[Roudy]

Its a very controversial/personal subject for many in there and honestly some of the posts from the Pro Palestinian crown are just ridiculous.

Are you saying there are no ridiculous posts from the pro-Israeli side?

Reading comprehension problems? Read what he said again. You are exactly the type of person he is referring to.

 

[aris2chat]

Anger, name calling, personal attacks, whining, demanding "proof" rather that offering it to support their point of view.
If you can't attack the messenger, attack the facts. If you can't attack the facts, attack the logic.
Weren't we warned about this in 6th grade debate?

If you can't attack the messenger?

I was told you're not supposed to attack the messenger.

It is a form of discourse used in desperation or by those spreading disinformation
referred to as adhominem and logic fallacy
I think I had it out of order. I believe the correct order of the phrase is "if you can't argue the facts argue the logic. If you can't argue the logic attack the messenger"
The point being people who resort to this are being intellectually dishonest
When you learn debate and public speaking, you are warned about what not to do and how to handle those who do resort to this behavior.

Everyone should be aware not to make personal attack, but teasing or making fun of some aspect of what another person says is hard for some to avoid, even having a joke at the attacker's expense. There are also ways of belittling or insult a person in a round about way that can sound like a compliment. Or if you are insulted or attacked you can turn it into a compliment and undercut the attackers ability to insult your. Take the steam out the balloon.

 

[Saigon]

The quality of posting in the ME forum is dreadful - very low levels of knowledge, and even lower levels of honesty by both pro-Israeli and pro-Palestinian posters.

I do think most posters do their best, and I sometimes wonder if banning 1 or 2 troublemakers might solve the problem - nd actually you only need to read this page to see the worst offender in the forums spouting abuse and derailing the thread.

Banning the odd poster might mean the debate would at least be more civil, even if not always a whole lot more informed. I think we also need to be reasonable and accept that not everyone has the opportunity to zip off to Syria for a week, or to read every book that comes out on the topic; but I do wish people would spend five minutes on google before claiming, as someone did yesterday, that the UN left Palestine because the Arab Muslims "evicted" them.