Wonder why Trump STILL campaigns in West Virginia???

[Avatar4321]

You guys keep claiming he is lying but there is seriously no reason to expect us to get off of coal aside from wishing.

 

[SavannahMann]

South Carolina is perhaps number 2 in the delusional Trump ass kissers' cadre.

China is producing 2/3 of the world's solar panels, with India producing a good chunk of the remaining 1/3, while the U.S. is still harping on coal that very few buyers are interested in.....

We are dealing with 19th century "solutions" in a 21 century environment. Good luck with that.

You have touched on a number of subjects, I doubt I can cover them all, but we will touch on as many of them as I can, time permitting. I'll even touch on the obvious which we talked about yesterday. Another in the Trump supporters are idiots and can't pass a window without licking it threads.

Solar is not bad, on sunny days. But it does not produce the stability that modern electrical demands require. Volkswagen has acres of solar panels at their factory in Tennessee. All that acres of land and it produces 12.5% of the power the factory needs. When the sun is out.

Volkswagen Chattanooga Powers Up Largest Solar Park in Tennessee - Phoenix Solar USA

If we ran our cities on solar and wind alone, then they would be as dark as the bad old days of candles and gas lanterns every night.

Look, I love technology, and I see a lot of promise in it, but it just is not there yet. One example I am rather familiar with is shipping.

In the earliest days, men pulled on oars to get the boat and cargo moved. Later, the men adjusted canvas sails to get the boat to move the cargo. Wind was better, it lasted more than a few days, and it allowed for longer journeys, and larger boats. Then time went by, and the sails were refined, the design of the boats was refined. Wind was not reliable however. Some days it just did not cooperate, and you couldn't schedule a trip the way we wanted. Coal fired steam was the next breakthrough. Then oil fired steam was the state of the art.

The Governments of the world did not need to legislate sailing ships out of the cargo fleets. The advantages of Coal were obvious. The Governments of the world did not need to legislate coal out, Oil was better.

Then Diesel came about, and the Oil fired ships became relics. Diesel was better than oil fired steam. It was more reliable, and more efficient, and more economical. Now, environmentalists argue we should make everyone switch to alternative modes, like electric cars, because they're green. They aren't as green as you think, but we'll get to that too.

When someone develops a better system than Diesel, that system won't need legislation to make it dominant. The shipping companies will throw the diesel ships away as they buy newer, more efficient, and more economical ships. Congress did not arrange the demise of Betamax and declare VHS the winner. The market did. Congress did not legislate the move from oil to Diesel, the market did it all on its own.

If you come up with something better, the market will adapt to it. I said I like technology. One of my Hurricane Supplies is a battery pack I built. It is charged by two large solar panels. That pack, and those panels can manage to run a thermoelectric cooler for 24 hours, and basically nothing else. It allows me to store some food when the storm knocks out power for a while. I did the math, I'd have to dedicate one of my rooms for batteries if I wanted to go straight solar. Batteries that would produce hydrogen when they charged. Hydrogen that would need to be taken care of, or I risked an explosion. So ventilation would be a must.

The entire South facing roof would need to be covered in solar panels, both to power the house, and to charge the batteries when it was dark. That would mean cutting down a number of trees that reduce my electrical costs by casting the house in shade. The AC would run more, and power failure would mean firing up a generator to meet demand.

This was cost prohibitive. So the solar panel powered battery pack was the most I would do.

Let's talk about hybrid cars. The hybrid system adds at least fifteen thousand dollars to the cost of the car. I could buy a second small car for the cost of the Hybrid system. Worse, I could buy a lot of gas, like ten years worth of gas to run the car, if I avoided Hybrid.

Hydrogen fuel cell is interesting, but the support systems aren't in place yet.

Battery powered, or pure electrics? It might be OK around town, but it would not be OK for anything else. A busy day could well have me cooling my heels for a couple hours, presuming I could find a charging station. If my car runs out of gas, I have to walk to a gas station, or call a friend or family member to bring me some gasoline. I have to fight the gas down the line to the engine, and then I'm moving again.

If my car runs out of electricity. I'm in very bad shape. First, I can't just charge it back up then. It is "bricked".

Even the new model S Tesla has that as a danger. Now it may be rare, but it is something that does not happen when I run out of gas. If I run out of gas I can add more, and get the car running after some effort. If I run out of diesel, it is harder, but still possible to get the engine running.

Let's say I'm taking a long journey. I'm going to visit my Brother in say Portland. Well I am not driving my Electric car, I can tell you that. I am not stopping at least once, and almost certainly twice a day to sit for a couple hours so the batteries can charge. What would have been a ten or fifteen minute pit stop with a bathroom break, is now a two hour snooze fest where I anxiously watch to make sure the electric is slowly feeding into the car. By the end of the first day, I'd be trading it in on anything with a fuel tank.

As I said, I like technology. But it just isn't ready yet. We're getting closer, but we are not there yet. Now you like to take one snippet of my replies and run with them, so I guess you need one. The next paragraph will be for you to run with and maintain your illusion that all Trump voters are blithering idiots who can't string a sentence together.

PART INTENDED FOR SNIPPING. "You are a real poopie head if you don't love Trump. USASU. Or something." SNIP ENDED.

South Carolina was trying to get a 21st Century answer, a nuclear power plant, going. Nuclear produces nearly no greenhouse gasses. Modern designs are safe, and efficient. They reuse the fuel for much longer, and produce much much less waste. And, here is the kicker, they are safe. When Bill Clinton was president the Atomic Energy Commision was testing a "safe fail" reactor design. Any of the things that have triggered accidents in the past, would not trigger an accident with that design. They did loss of coolant accident, and the system did exactly what it was supposed to. All of the tests showed the design worked as advertised.

We could have those reactors right now producing electricity reliably, and safely. But we don't because people who don't understand how much electrical power we are talking about think a handful of solar panels will solve the problem.

SECOND SNIP PROVIDED. "Nuclear Power is awesome. What are you a commonist?" SNIP END.

Did you like how I misspelled Communist? That should help your narrative. I'm sure I missed a lot, but since I figure you'll run with the snips and say he's a total moron and he's too stupid to realize he's voting against his own interests. I would argue that you are too egotistical to figure out what my interests are, so you're not sure if I am voting against them or not.

 

[nat4900]

Trump was still telling the same coal lies at that rally. How long before the right realizes and admits he's lying to them? From their reaction to his phony media launch, it will still be a while.

Well, part of the word-smithing of a demagogue such as Trump, is to blabber that others (the media, republican congress, liberals, the Clintons, Obama, et al.) are to blame for Trump's promises not being fulfilled.

Had Trump promised that from now on the sun would rise in the west, he'd blame liberal compass manufacturers for the discrepancies........and many West Virginians would probably call for the heads of those compass manufacturers.

 

[nat4900]

The governor of WV was a Republican in 2015. He then switched to the Democrats in 2016 to run for governor. And now in 2017, he's switching back to the Republicans to ride the coattails of a popular President in the state.

That's swamptastic!

........and, want to GUESS how that "governor" made his billions???

 

[nat4900]

Trump would rather continue to con the people of WV and Kentucky about ‘coal jobs’ instead of affording them education and training opportunities to get them out of the dying coal industry and into jobs that have a future.

Well, demagoguery is a hell of a lot cheaper than investing in these miners' education and training..

BUT, its even worse than the Trump lies for these miners........Trump is now allowing the coal companies to pollute the very streams and rivers and lakes where these miners live, and will die.

 

[Toro]

South Carolina is perhaps number 2 in the delusional Trump ass kissers' cadre.

China is producing 2/3 of the world's solar panels, with India producing a good chunk of the remaining 1/3, while the U.S. is still harping on coal that very few buyers are interested in.....

We are dealing with 19th century "solutions" in a 21 century environment. Good luck with that.

You have touched on a number of subjects, I doubt I can cover them all, but we will touch on as many of them as I can, time permitting. I'll even touch on the obvious which we talked about yesterday. Another in the Trump supporters are idiots and can't pass a window without licking it threads.

Solar is not bad, on sunny days. But it does not produce the stability that modern electrical demands require. Volkswagen has acres of solar panels at their factory in Tennessee. All that acres of land and it produces 12.5% of the power the factory needs. When the sun is out.

Volkswagen Chattanooga Powers Up Largest Solar Park in Tennessee - Phoenix Solar USA

If we ran our cities on solar and wind alone, then they would be as dark as the bad old days of candles and gas lanterns every night.

Look, I love technology, and I see a lot of promise in it, but it just is not there yet. One example I am rather familiar with is shipping.

In the earliest days, men pulled on oars to get the boat and cargo moved. Later, the men adjusted canvas sails to get the boat to move the cargo. Wind was better, it lasted more than a few days, and it allowed for longer journeys, and larger boats. Then time went by, and the sails were refined, the design of the boats was refined. Wind was not reliable however. Some days it just did not cooperate, and you couldn't schedule a trip the way we wanted. Coal fired steam was the next breakthrough. Then oil fired steam was the state of the art.

The Governments of the world did not need to legislate sailing ships out of the cargo fleets. The advantages of Coal were obvious. The Governments of the world did not need to legislate coal out, Oil was better.

Then Diesel came about, and the Oil fired ships became relics. Diesel was better than oil fired steam. It was more reliable, and more efficient, and more economical. Now, environmentalists argue we should make everyone switch to alternative modes, like electric cars, because they're green. They aren't as green as you think, but we'll get to that too.

When someone develops a better system than Diesel, that system won't need legislation to make it dominant. The shipping companies will throw the diesel ships away as they buy newer, more efficient, and more economical ships. Congress did not arrange the demise of Betamax and declare VHS the winner. The market did. Congress did not legislate the move from oil to Diesel, the market did it all on its own.

If you come up with something better, the market will adapt to it. I said I like technology. One of my Hurricane Supplies is a battery pack I built. It is charged by two large solar panels. That pack, and those panels can manage to run a thermoelectric cooler for 24 hours, and basically nothing else. It allows me to store some food when the storm knocks out power for a while. I did the math, I'd have to dedicate one of my rooms for batteries if I wanted to go straight solar. Batteries that would produce hydrogen when they charged. Hydrogen that would need to be taken care of, or I risked an explosion. So ventilation would be a must.

The entire South facing roof would need to be covered in solar panels, both to power the house, and to charge the batteries when it was dark. That would mean cutting down a number of trees that reduce my electrical costs by casting the house in shade. The AC would run more, and power failure would mean firing up a generator to meet demand.

This was cost prohibitive. So the solar panel powered battery pack was the most I would do.

Let's talk about hybrid cars. The hybrid system adds at least fifteen thousand dollars to the cost of the car. I could buy a second small car for the cost of the Hybrid system. Worse, I could buy a lot of gas, like ten years worth of gas to run the car, if I avoided Hybrid.

Hydrogen fuel cell is interesting, but the support systems aren't in place yet.

Battery powered, or pure electrics? It might be OK around town, but it would not be OK for anything else. A busy day could well have me cooling my heels for a couple hours, presuming I could find a charging station. If my car runs out of gas, I have to walk to a gas station, or call a friend or family member to bring me some gasoline. I have to fight the gas down the line to the engine, and then I'm moving again.

If my car runs out of electricity. I'm in very bad shape. First, I can't just charge it back up then. It is "bricked".

Even the new model S Tesla has that as a danger. Now it may be rare, but it is something that does not happen when I run out of gas. If I run out of gas I can add more, and get the car running after some effort. If I run out of diesel, it is harder, but still possible to get the engine running.

Let's say I'm taking a long journey. I'm going to visit my Brother in say Portland. Well I am not driving my Electric car, I can tell you that. I am not stopping at least once, and almost certainly twice a day to sit for a couple hours so the batteries can charge. What would have been a ten or fifteen minute pit stop with a bathroom break, is now a two hour snooze fest where I anxiously watch to make sure the electric is slowly feeding into the car. By the end of the first day, I'd be trading it in on anything with a fuel tank.

As I said, I like technology. But it just isn't ready yet. We're getting closer, but we are not there yet. Now you like to take one snippet of my replies and run with them, so I guess you need one. The next paragraph will be for you to run with and maintain your illusion that all Trump voters are blithering idiots who can't string a sentence together.

PART INTENDED FOR SNIPPING. "You are a real poopie head if you don't love Trump. USASU. Or something." SNIP ENDED.

South Carolina was trying to get a 21st Century answer, a nuclear power plant, going. Nuclear produces nearly no greenhouse gasses. Modern designs are safe, and efficient. They reuse the fuel for much longer, and produce much much less waste. And, here is the kicker, they are safe. When Bill Clinton was president the Atomic Energy Commision was testing a "safe fail" reactor design. Any of the things that have triggered accidents in the past, would not trigger an accident with that design. They did loss of coolant accident, and the system did exactly what it was supposed to. All of the tests showed the design worked as advertised.

We could have those reactors right now producing electricity reliably, and safely. But we don't because people who don't understand how much electrical power we are talking about think a handful of solar panels will solve the problem.

SECOND SNIP PROVIDED. "Nuclear Power is awesome. What are you a commonist?" SNIP END.

Did you like how I misspelled Communist? That should help your narrative. I'm sure I missed a lot, but since I figure you'll run with the snips and say he's a total moron and he's too stupid to realize he's voting against his own interests. I would argue that you are too egotistical to figure out what my interests are, so you're not sure if I am voting against them or not.

tl;dr

 

[Toro]

It would be hilarious if the governor switched back to being a Democrat in 2018.

lol