20 week Abortion act Passes House of Reps.

[Chuz Life]

If you think that empathy is limited to having feelings for things that can also have their own feelings? That explains a lot.

That's kind of the definition of empathy.

the ability to share someone else’s feelings or experiences by imagining what it would be like to be in that person’s situation

empathy Definition in the Cambridge English Dictionary

the action of understanding, being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicariously experiencing the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another of either the past or present without having the feelings, thoughts, and experience fully communicated in an objectively explicit manner

Definition of EMPATHY

The ability to identify with or understand the perspective, experiences, or motivations of another individual and to comprehend and share another individual's emotional state.

empathy

Empathy is usually defined as being able to experience the emotions or feelings of another. Sympathy, on the other hand, holds no such requirement to experience the same feelings.

Are you going to quote the full fucking definitions or are you going to admit that you are cherry picking them to make a semantic argument?

I provided 3 different links. Is there something wrong with them that you need me to quote the entire definition from each source?

Of course this is a semantics argument, I'm talking about the definition of a word.

I thought I was pretty clear at the end when I said empathy is usually defined as being able to experience the emotions or feelings of another. That isn't the full range of possible definitions of the word, but I think it is a good general definition for how it is commonly used. I think that sympathy would be a better word choice than empathy when talking about abortion, because it's hard, if not impossible, for someone to experience what it is like to be a fetus, particularly at an early stage of development; experiencing what someone else does is what empathy usually is about.

Are you going to quit getting so upset because someone points out that you may have chosen the wrong word?

I'm not upset at all.

Is this not an example of people having empathy for beings that have no capacity for thoughts or feelings at all?


trees. . . And that's all well and good. . . But if someone has the same amount of empathy for a child in the womb. . . That's just wrong?

Feel free to explain.

"Bring me to this (fucking lol) ROCK so full of LIFE?"

"I WANT TO APOLOGIZE. . . TREES!"

 

[Chuz Life]

Again, your denials have already been defeated. Your side lost. Our fetal homicide laws already define and recognize "children in the womb" in ANY STAGE of development as human beings.

Now, you can gripe, complain, both and moan about it all you might want to. ... but unless and until you convince lawmakers to change that definition, you can rest assured that prolifers and antiaborts like me are going to USE that definition to further challenge Roe.

Rotsa ruck. All these fetal homicide laws exclude abortion. What is your end game anyway? Are you going to put women in jail for getting an abortion? Death penalty? If a woman travels to another state where abortion is legal, will she be persecuted when she comes home? If a woman has a miscarriage, will she have to prove somehow that she isn't to blame? Will you demand that employers provide maternity leave? Will you ensure that poor women have access to prenatal treatment? Would you force a prepubescent girl to go through a full term pregnancy? Jail for smoking a cigarette while pregnant? For having an alcoholic beverage? Maternity police going around making sure pregnant women are in compliance? And what are you going to do once the precious, wonderful fetuses are born and turn into societal leeches and parasites?

Let's make a deal.


I will gladly answer all those question if you will publically accept and agree that a child's life begins at and by conception and when you also agree that legalized abortion on demand violates the Constitutional rights of those aborted.

Well, I don't believe any of that, but lets say I do for the purposes of this discussion.

Let's not then, and say we did.

Doesn't surprise me. Few anti-abortion zealots want to go there and explain the logical outcomes and consequences of their desires. Ladies, if zealots like ChuzBirth(or else) have their way, expect to be charged with murder if you get an abortion. Expect your rights to be secondary to a fetus you will be forced to carry whether you want it or not. Expect no help from the government either before or after birth, only punishment. Men, no easy outs any longer. You get a girl pregnant, you're on the hook for the next 18-21 years. Taxpayers, you're on the hook too. All these extra kids means more schools, roads, hospitals, police, firemen, welfare, etc.

Who knows? Maybe in a hundred years we'll find ourselves in a situation like China where they can't take care of their huge population and have to go to forced population controls.

Funny that you think a child's rights are contingent upon so many things that they are simply not contingent upon.

 

[Borillar]

Rotsa ruck. All these fetal homicide laws exclude abortion. What is your end game anyway? Are you going to put women in jail for getting an abortion? Death penalty? If a woman travels to another state where abortion is legal, will she be persecuted when she comes home? If a woman has a miscarriage, will she have to prove somehow that she isn't to blame? Will you demand that employers provide maternity leave? Will you ensure that poor women have access to prenatal treatment? Would you force a prepubescent girl to go through a full term pregnancy? Jail for smoking a cigarette while pregnant? For having an alcoholic beverage? Maternity police going around making sure pregnant women are in compliance? And what are you going to do once the precious, wonderful fetuses are born and turn into societal leeches and parasites?

Let's make a deal.


I will gladly answer all those question if you will publically accept and agree that a child's life begins at and by conception and when you also agree that legalized abortion on demand violates the Constitutional rights of those aborted.

Well, I don't believe any of that, but lets say I do for the purposes of this discussion.

Let's not then, and say we did.

Doesn't surprise me. Few anti-abortion zealots want to go there and explain the logical outcomes and consequences of their desires. Ladies, if zealots like ChuzBirth(or else) have their way, expect to be charged with murder if you get an abortion. Expect your rights to be secondary to a fetus you will be forced to carry whether you want it or not. Expect no help from the government either before or after birth, only punishment. Men, no easy outs any longer. You get a girl pregnant, you're on the hook for the next 18-21 years. Taxpayers, you're on the hook too. All these extra kids means more schools, roads, hospitals, police, firemen, welfare, etc.

Who knows? Maybe in a hundred years we'll find ourselves in a situation like China where they can't take care of their huge population and have to go to forced population controls.

Funny that you think a child's rights are contingent upon so many things that they are simply not contingent upon.

Funny you don't think a woman has any rights after she gets pregnant.

 

[Montrovant]

If you think that empathy is limited to having feelings for things that can also have their own feelings? That explains a lot.

That's kind of the definition of empathy.

the ability to share someone else’s feelings or experiences by imagining what it would be like to be in that person’s situation

empathy Definition in the Cambridge English Dictionary

the action of understanding, being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicariously experiencing the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another of either the past or present without having the feelings, thoughts, and experience fully communicated in an objectively explicit manner

Definition of EMPATHY

The ability to identify with or understand the perspective, experiences, or motivations of another individual and to comprehend and share another individual's emotional state.

empathy

Empathy is usually defined as being able to experience the emotions or feelings of another. Sympathy, on the other hand, holds no such requirement to experience the same feelings.

Are you going to quote the full fucking definitions or are you going to admit that you are cherry picking them to make a semantic argument?

I provided 3 different links. Is there something wrong with them that you need me to quote the entire definition from each source?

Of course this is a semantics argument, I'm talking about the definition of a word.

I thought I was pretty clear at the end when I said empathy is usually defined as being able to experience the emotions or feelings of another. That isn't the full range of possible definitions of the word, but I think it is a good general definition for how it is commonly used. I think that sympathy would be a better word choice than empathy when talking about abortion, because it's hard, if not impossible, for someone to experience what it is like to be a fetus, particularly at an early stage of development; experiencing what someone else does is what empathy usually is about.

Are you going to quit getting so upset because someone points out that you may have chosen the wrong word?

I'm not upset at all.

Is this not an example of people having empathy for beings that have no capacity for thoughts or feelings at all?


trees. . . And that's all well and good. . . But if someone has the same amount of empathy for a child in the womb. . . That's just wrong?

Feel free to explain.

"Bring me to this (fucking lol) ROCK so full of LIFE?"

"I WANT TO APOLOGIZE. . . TREES!"

No, I'd say that is sympathy, not empathy. They cannot be empathetic toward a tree, because they cannot experience what a tree does.

I'd also say it's a bit crazy.

 

[g5000]

Let's make a deal.


I will gladly answer all those question if you will publically accept and agree that a child's life begins at and by conception and when you also agree that legalized abortion on demand violates the Constitutional rights of those aborted.

Well, I don't believe any of that, but lets say I do for the purposes of this discussion.

Let's not then, and say we did.

Doesn't surprise me. Few anti-abortion zealots want to go there and explain the logical outcomes and consequences of their desires. Ladies, if zealots like ChuzBirth(or else) have their way, expect to be charged with murder if you get an abortion. Expect your rights to be secondary to a fetus you will be forced to carry whether you want it or not. Expect no help from the government either before or after birth, only punishment. Men, no easy outs any longer. You get a girl pregnant, you're on the hook for the next 18-21 years. Taxpayers, you're on the hook too. All these extra kids means more schools, roads, hospitals, police, firemen, welfare, etc.

Who knows? Maybe in a hundred years we'll find ourselves in a situation like China where they can't take care of their huge population and have to go to forced population controls.

Funny that you think a child's rights are contingent upon so many things that they are simply not contingent upon.

Funny you don't think a woman has any rights after she gets pregnant.

She has the same rights as her baby. She cannot be killed just because she is inconvenient to have around.

 

[Chuz Life]

If you think that empathy is limited to having feelings for things that can also have their own feelings? That explains a lot.

That's kind of the definition of empathy.

the ability to share someone else’s feelings or experiences by imagining what it would be like to be in that person’s situation

empathy Definition in the Cambridge English Dictionary

the action of understanding, being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicariously experiencing the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another of either the past or present without having the feelings, thoughts, and experience fully communicated in an objectively explicit manner

Definition of EMPATHY

The ability to identify with or understand the perspective, experiences, or motivations of another individual and to comprehend and share another individual's emotional state.

empathy

Empathy is usually defined as being able to experience the emotions or feelings of another. Sympathy, on the other hand, holds no such requirement to experience the same feelings.

Are you going to quote the full fucking definitions or are you going to admit that you are cherry picking them to make a semantic argument?

I provided 3 different links. Is there something wrong with them that you need me to quote the entire definition from each source?

Of course this is a semantics argument, I'm talking about the definition of a word.

I thought I was pretty clear at the end when I said empathy is usually defined as being able to experience the emotions or feelings of another. That isn't the full range of possible definitions of the word, but I think it is a good general definition for how it is commonly used. I think that sympathy would be a better word choice than empathy when talking about abortion, because it's hard, if not impossible, for someone to experience what it is like to be a fetus, particularly at an early stage of development; experiencing what someone else does is what empathy usually is about.

Are you going to quit getting so upset because someone points out that you may have chosen the wrong word?

I'm not upset at all.

Is this not an example of people having empathy for beings that have no capacity for thoughts or feelings at all?


trees. . . And that's all well and good. . . But if someone has the same amount of empathy for a child in the womb. . . That's just wrong?

Feel free to explain.

"Bring me to this (fucking lol) ROCK so full of LIFE?"

"I WANT TO APOLOGIZE. . . TREES!"

No, I'd say that is sympathy, not empathy. They cannot be empathetic toward a tree, because they cannot experience what a tree does.

I'd also say it's a bit crazy.

Empathy doesn't require the thing you are sympathizing with to be capable of having feelings or thoughts.

Why do you fucking think the definitions you posted include the word "usually" in them?

 

[Chuz Life]

Let's make a deal.


I will gladly answer all those question if you will publically accept and agree that a child's life begins at and by conception and when you also agree that legalized abortion on demand violates the Constitutional rights of those aborted.

Well, I don't believe any of that, but lets say I do for the purposes of this discussion.

Let's not then, and say we did.

Doesn't surprise me. Few anti-abortion zealots want to go there and explain the logical outcomes and consequences of their desires. Ladies, if zealots like ChuzBirth(or else) have their way, expect to be charged with murder if you get an abortion. Expect your rights to be secondary to a fetus you will be forced to carry whether you want it or not. Expect no help from the government either before or after birth, only punishment. Men, no easy outs any longer. You get a girl pregnant, you're on the hook for the next 18-21 years. Taxpayers, you're on the hook too. All these extra kids means more schools, roads, hospitals, police, firemen, welfare, etc.

Who knows? Maybe in a hundred years we'll find ourselves in a situation like China where they can't take care of their huge population and have to go to forced population controls.

Funny that you think a child's rights are contingent upon so many things that they are simply not contingent upon.

Funny you don't think a woman has any rights after she gets pregnant.

BULLSHIT.

If a pregnant woman is murdered, there are two counts of murder. Not just one.

 

[tinydancer]

Let's make a deal.


I will gladly answer all those question if you will publically accept and agree that a child's life begins at and by conception and when you also agree that legalized abortion on demand violates the Constitutional rights of those aborted.

Well, I don't believe any of that, but lets say I do for the purposes of this discussion.

Let's not then, and say we did.

Doesn't surprise me. Few anti-abortion zealots want to go there and explain the logical outcomes and consequences of their desires. Ladies, if zealots like ChuzBirth(or else) have their way, expect to be charged with murder if you get an abortion. Expect your rights to be secondary to a fetus you will be forced to carry whether you want it or not. Expect no help from the government either before or after birth, only punishment. Men, no easy outs any longer. You get a girl pregnant, you're on the hook for the next 18-21 years. Taxpayers, you're on the hook too. All these extra kids means more schools, roads, hospitals, police, firemen, welfare, etc.

Who knows? Maybe in a hundred years we'll find ourselves in a situation like China where they can't take care of their huge population and have to go to forced population controls.

Funny that you think a child's rights are contingent upon so many things that they are simply not contingent upon.

Funny you don't think a woman has any rights after she gets pregnant.

Morning after pills FOR FREE. I'm in.

Anything to prevent an abortion. I'm for free birth control devices. Anything and everything to prevent abortions. And come on. You miss your first period RED FREAKING ALERT. Get a pregnancy test. Make a decision before you make it half way thru a pregnancy.

 

[Montrovant]

That's kind of the definition of empathy.

the ability to share someone else’s feelings or experiences by imagining what it would be like to be in that person’s situation

empathy Definition in the Cambridge English Dictionary

the action of understanding, being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicariously experiencing the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another of either the past or present without having the feelings, thoughts, and experience fully communicated in an objectively explicit manner

Definition of EMPATHY

The ability to identify with or understand the perspective, experiences, or motivations of another individual and to comprehend and share another individual's emotional state.

empathy

Empathy is usually defined as being able to experience the emotions or feelings of another. Sympathy, on the other hand, holds no such requirement to experience the same feelings.

Are you going to quote the full fucking definitions or are you going to admit that you are cherry picking them to make a semantic argument?

I provided 3 different links. Is there something wrong with them that you need me to quote the entire definition from each source?

Of course this is a semantics argument, I'm talking about the definition of a word.

I thought I was pretty clear at the end when I said empathy is usually defined as being able to experience the emotions or feelings of another. That isn't the full range of possible definitions of the word, but I think it is a good general definition for how it is commonly used. I think that sympathy would be a better word choice than empathy when talking about abortion, because it's hard, if not impossible, for someone to experience what it is like to be a fetus, particularly at an early stage of development; experiencing what someone else does is what empathy usually is about.

Are you going to quit getting so upset because someone points out that you may have chosen the wrong word?

I'm not upset at all.

Is this not an example of people having empathy for beings that have no capacity for thoughts or feelings at all?


trees. . . And that's all well and good. . . But if someone has the same amount of empathy for a child in the womb. . . That's just wrong?

Feel free to explain.

"Bring me to this (fucking lol) ROCK so full of LIFE?"

"I WANT TO APOLOGIZE. . . TREES!"

No, I'd say that is sympathy, not empathy. They cannot be empathetic toward a tree, because they cannot experience what a tree does.

I'd also say it's a bit crazy.

Empathy doesn't require the thing you are sympathizing with to be capable of having feelings or thoughts.

Why do you fucking think the definitions you posted include the word "usually" in them?

Actually, not a single definition I posted includes the word "usually." Only in my comments after the definitions is that word found. The word "usually" is used in the Did You Know section of the Merriam-Webster page, but not in the definitions.

Empathy doesn't require the thing you empathize with (notice I'm not saying sympathize with, as those are different things) to have feelings or thoughts if you use the definition of projecting your own feelings onto something else. That doesn't seem to be the correct definition in this context.

You still sound like you are a bit upset, and you also don't seem to be paying all that much attention if you think the definitions I posted include the word "usually."

Here's a comparison between empathy and sympathy: Empathy vs. sympathy - Grammarist
And another: Empathy vs. Sympathy - Everything After Z by Dictionary.com

 

[Borillar]

Well, I don't believe any of that, but lets say I do for the purposes of this discussion.

Let's not then, and say we did.

Doesn't surprise me. Few anti-abortion zealots want to go there and explain the logical outcomes and consequences of their desires. Ladies, if zealots like ChuzBirth(or else) have their way, expect to be charged with murder if you get an abortion. Expect your rights to be secondary to a fetus you will be forced to carry whether you want it or not. Expect no help from the government either before or after birth, only punishment. Men, no easy outs any longer. You get a girl pregnant, you're on the hook for the next 18-21 years. Taxpayers, you're on the hook too. All these extra kids means more schools, roads, hospitals, police, firemen, welfare, etc.

Who knows? Maybe in a hundred years we'll find ourselves in a situation like China where they can't take care of their huge population and have to go to forced population controls.

Funny that you think a child's rights are contingent upon so many things that they are simply not contingent upon.

Funny you don't think a woman has any rights after she gets pregnant.

Morning after pills FOR FREE. I'm in.

Anything to prevent an abortion. I'm for free birth control devices. Anything and everything to prevent abortions. And come on. You miss your first period RED FREAKING ALERT. Get a pregnancy test. Make a decision before you make it half way thru a pregnancy.

According to Chuz Life and other zealots, it's human at the moment of conception. Doesn't that mean that the morning after pill is murder too? Wouldn't drugs to prevent the fertilized egg from implanting into the uterus be murder? IUD's = murder? Douching = murder?

 

[Chuz Life]

Let's not then, and say we did.

Doesn't surprise me. Few anti-abortion zealots want to go there and explain the logical outcomes and consequences of their desires. Ladies, if zealots like ChuzBirth(or else) have their way, expect to be charged with murder if you get an abortion. Expect your rights to be secondary to a fetus you will be forced to carry whether you want it or not. Expect no help from the government either before or after birth, only punishment. Men, no easy outs any longer. You get a girl pregnant, you're on the hook for the next 18-21 years. Taxpayers, you're on the hook too. All these extra kids means more schools, roads, hospitals, police, firemen, welfare, etc.

Who knows? Maybe in a hundred years we'll find ourselves in a situation like China where they can't take care of their huge population and have to go to forced population controls.

Funny that you think a child's rights are contingent upon so many things that they are simply not contingent upon.

Funny you don't think a woman has any rights after she gets pregnant.

Morning after pills FOR FREE. I'm in.

Anything to prevent an abortion. I'm for free birth control devices. Anything and everything to prevent abortions. And come on. You miss your first period RED FREAKING ALERT. Get a pregnancy test. Make a decision before you make it half way thru a pregnancy.

According to Chuz Life and other zealots, it's human at the moment of conception. Doesn't that mean that the morning after pill is murder too? Wouldn't drugs to prevent the fertilized egg from implanting into the uterus be murder? IUD's = murder? Douching = murder?

From my understanding and the way the MAP is marketed. It prevents conception, not implantation.

Is that not the case?

 

[Montrovant]

Doesn't surprise me. Few anti-abortion zealots want to go there and explain the logical outcomes and consequences of their desires. Ladies, if zealots like ChuzBirth(or else) have their way, expect to be charged with murder if you get an abortion. Expect your rights to be secondary to a fetus you will be forced to carry whether you want it or not. Expect no help from the government either before or after birth, only punishment. Men, no easy outs any longer. You get a girl pregnant, you're on the hook for the next 18-21 years. Taxpayers, you're on the hook too. All these extra kids means more schools, roads, hospitals, police, firemen, welfare, etc.

Who knows? Maybe in a hundred years we'll find ourselves in a situation like China where they can't take care of their huge population and have to go to forced population controls.

Funny that you think a child's rights are contingent upon so many things that they are simply not contingent upon.

Funny you don't think a woman has any rights after she gets pregnant.

Morning after pills FOR FREE. I'm in.

Anything to prevent an abortion. I'm for free birth control devices. Anything and everything to prevent abortions. And come on. You miss your first period RED FREAKING ALERT. Get a pregnancy test. Make a decision before you make it half way thru a pregnancy.

According to Chuz Life and other zealots, it's human at the moment of conception. Doesn't that mean that the morning after pill is murder too? Wouldn't drugs to prevent the fertilized egg from implanting into the uterus be murder? IUD's = murder? Douching = murder?

From my understanding and the way the MAP is marketed. It prevents conception, not implantation.

Is that not the case?

It can do both, apparently.

How Does it Work? - Morning After Pill
An Overview of Plan B (the Morning-After Pill)

 

[Chuz Life]

Are you going to quote the full fucking definitions or are you going to admit that you are cherry picking them to make a semantic argument?

I provided 3 different links. Is there something wrong with them that you need me to quote the entire definition from each source?

Of course this is a semantics argument, I'm talking about the definition of a word.

I thought I was pretty clear at the end when I said empathy is usually defined as being able to experience the emotions or feelings of another. That isn't the full range of possible definitions of the word, but I think it is a good general definition for how it is commonly used. I think that sympathy would be a better word choice than empathy when talking about abortion, because it's hard, if not impossible, for someone to experience what it is like to be a fetus, particularly at an early stage of development; experiencing what someone else does is what empathy usually is about.

Are you going to quit getting so upset because someone points out that you may have chosen the wrong word?

I'm not upset at all.

Is this not an example of people having empathy for beings that have no capacity for thoughts or feelings at all?


trees. . . And that's all well and good. . . But if someone has the same amount of empathy for a child in the womb. . . That's just wrong?

Feel free to explain.

"Bring me to this (fucking lol) ROCK so full of LIFE?"

"I WANT TO APOLOGIZE. . . TREES!"

No, I'd say that is sympathy, not empathy. They cannot be empathetic toward a tree, because they cannot experience what a tree does.

I'd also say it's a bit crazy.

Empathy doesn't require the thing you are sympathizing with to be capable of having feelings or thoughts.

Why do you fucking think the definitions you posted include the word "usually" in them?

Actually, not a single definition I posted includes the word "usually." Only in my comments after the definitions is that word found. The word "usually" is used in the Did You Know section of the Merriam-Webster page, but not in the definitions.

Empathy doesn't require the thing you empathize with (notice I'm not saying sympathize with, as those are different things) to have feelings or thoughts if you use the definition of projecting your own feelings onto something else. That doesn't seem to be the correct definition in this context.

You still sound like you are a bit upset, and you also don't seem to be paying all that much attention if you think the definitions I posted include the word "usually."

Here's a comparison between empathy and sympathy: Empathy vs. sympathy - Grammarist
And another: Empathy vs. Sympathy - Everything After Z by Dictionary.com

It may not seem immediately apparent why empathy for other humans translates into concern for the environment, where issues (like air pollution) often affect humans but other times focus on animals, plants or nature itself. Empathy for a tree and empathy for a person do not initially seem as though they would be the same thing.

 

[Borillar]

Doesn't surprise me. Few anti-abortion zealots want to go there and explain the logical outcomes and consequences of their desires. Ladies, if zealots like ChuzBirth(or else) have their way, expect to be charged with murder if you get an abortion. Expect your rights to be secondary to a fetus you will be forced to carry whether you want it or not. Expect no help from the government either before or after birth, only punishment. Men, no easy outs any longer. You get a girl pregnant, you're on the hook for the next 18-21 years. Taxpayers, you're on the hook too. All these extra kids means more schools, roads, hospitals, police, firemen, welfare, etc.

Who knows? Maybe in a hundred years we'll find ourselves in a situation like China where they can't take care of their huge population and have to go to forced population controls.

Funny that you think a child's rights are contingent upon so many things that they are simply not contingent upon.

Funny you don't think a woman has any rights after she gets pregnant.

Morning after pills FOR FREE. I'm in.

Anything to prevent an abortion. I'm for free birth control devices. Anything and everything to prevent abortions. And come on. You miss your first period RED FREAKING ALERT. Get a pregnancy test. Make a decision before you make it half way thru a pregnancy.

According to Chuz Life and other zealots, it's human at the moment of conception. Doesn't that mean that the morning after pill is murder too? Wouldn't drugs to prevent the fertilized egg from implanting into the uterus be murder? IUD's = murder? Douching = murder?

From my understanding and the way the MAP is marketed. It prevents conception, not implantation.

Is that not the case?

AFAIK the MAP is an abortifacient.

 

[Chuz Life]

Funny that you think a child's rights are contingent upon so many things that they are simply not contingent upon.

Funny you don't think a woman has any rights after she gets pregnant.

Morning after pills FOR FREE. I'm in.

Anything to prevent an abortion. I'm for free birth control devices. Anything and everything to prevent abortions. And come on. You miss your first period RED FREAKING ALERT. Get a pregnancy test. Make a decision before you make it half way thru a pregnancy.

According to Chuz Life and other zealots, it's human at the moment of conception. Doesn't that mean that the morning after pill is murder too? Wouldn't drugs to prevent the fertilized egg from implanting into the uterus be murder? IUD's = murder? Douching = murder?

From my understanding and the way the MAP is marketed. It prevents conception, not implantation.

Is that not the case?

AFAIK the MAP is an abortifacient.

Are you suggesting that planned parenthood might actually be lying?

 

[Coyote]

Does empathy end with due process then?

Of course not.

Part of the issue with abortion and empathy is I put myself in the shoes of the pregnant woman and her rights regarding abortion. Being forced to carry a pregnancy against her will is horrendous. In an early abortion the the embryo has no consciousness or brain waves even.

You see it as a constitutional issue giving an unborn child the same rights as anyone else, but that opens the door to a nightmare for every pregnant woman. I see it as competing rights with the woman's rights being paramount until the fetus is sufficiently developed to live outside her body. Late term abortions are rare, very regulated and usually for serious reasons and I support that.

If you follow the constitutional argument you can not make exceptions for anything but the mother's life. That creates a slippery slope for every pregnant woman.

 

[Coyote]

Well, I don't believe any of that, but lets say I do for the purposes of this discussion.

Let's not then, and say we did.

Doesn't surprise me. Few anti-abortion zealots want to go there and explain the logical outcomes and consequences of their desires. Ladies, if zealots like ChuzBirth(or else) have their way, expect to be charged with murder if you get an abortion. Expect your rights to be secondary to a fetus you will be forced to carry whether you want it or not. Expect no help from the government either before or after birth, only punishment. Men, no easy outs any longer. You get a girl pregnant, you're on the hook for the next 18-21 years. Taxpayers, you're on the hook too. All these extra kids means more schools, roads, hospitals, police, firemen, welfare, etc.

Who knows? Maybe in a hundred years we'll find ourselves in a situation like China where they can't take care of their huge population and have to go to forced population controls.

Funny that you think a child's rights are contingent upon so many things that they are simply not contingent upon.

Funny you don't think a woman has any rights after she gets pregnant.

Morning after pills FOR FREE. I'm in.

Anything to prevent an abortion. I'm for free birth control devices. Anything and everything to prevent abortions. And come on. You miss your first period RED FREAKING ALERT. Get a pregnancy test. Make a decision before you make it half way thru a pregnancy.

I agree...I'm all for prevention and if all that fails make it early.

 

[Chuz Life]

Does empathy end with due process then?

Of course not.

Part of the issue with abortion and empathy is I put myself in the shoes of the pregnant woman and her rights regarding abortion. Being forced to carry a pregnancy against her will is horrendous. In an early abortion the the embryo has no consciousness or brain waves even.

You see it as a constitutional issue giving an unborn child the same rights as anyone else, but that opens the door to a nightmare for every pregnant woman. I see it as competing rights with the woman's rights being paramount until the fetus is sufficiently developed to live outside her body. Late term abortions are rare, very regulated and usually for serious reasons and I support that.

If you follow the constitutional argument you can not make exceptions for anything but the mother's life. That creates a slippery slope for every pregnant woman.

Were I to base my position on abortion on empathy alone, you might have an excellent point. There is little doubt that the emotional arguments are easier made in favor of the woman than for the child she is carrying. However, in my view, none of that has any bearing on a legal / constitutional debate about when a persons Constitutional rights begin.

All of this pap about women's rights verses the rights of her child is crap too. . . Because there is not a woman alive who wasn't first a child, herself.

 

[Borillar]

Funny you don't think a woman has any rights after she gets pregnant.

Morning after pills FOR FREE. I'm in.

Anything to prevent an abortion. I'm for free birth control devices. Anything and everything to prevent abortions. And come on. You miss your first period RED FREAKING ALERT. Get a pregnancy test. Make a decision before you make it half way thru a pregnancy.

According to Chuz Life and other zealots, it's human at the moment of conception. Doesn't that mean that the morning after pill is murder too? Wouldn't drugs to prevent the fertilized egg from implanting into the uterus be murder? IUD's = murder? Douching = murder?

From my understanding and the way the MAP is marketed. It prevents conception, not implantation.

Is that not the case?

AFAIK the MAP is an abortifacient.

Are you suggesting that planned parenthood might actually be lying?

Probably just me not understanding the mechanism of the pill.

 

[Chuz Life]

Morning after pills FOR FREE. I'm in.

Anything to prevent an abortion. I'm for free birth control devices. Anything and everything to prevent abortions. And come on. You miss your first period RED FREAKING ALERT. Get a pregnancy test. Make a decision before you make it half way thru a pregnancy.

According to Chuz Life and other zealots, it's human at the moment of conception. Doesn't that mean that the morning after pill is murder too? Wouldn't drugs to prevent the fertilized egg from implanting into the uterus be murder? IUD's = murder? Douching = murder?

From my understanding and the way the MAP is marketed. It prevents conception, not implantation.

Is that not the case?

AFAIK the MAP is an abortifacient.

Are you suggesting that planned parenthood might actually be lying?

Probably just me not understanding the mechanism of the pill.

Yeah. I doubt that Planned Parenthood would lie about anything like that.