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The Bush Admin. made some major mistakes regarding Iraq and none of them had anything to do with WMDs (which was a very reasonable and supported error).
1) They assumed that in terms of infrastructure Iraq in 2003 was about the same as Iraq in 1991.
In reality, after 12 years of sanctions, Hussein's horrendous mismanagement and outright theft, and occasional U.S. airstrikes, Iraq's infrastructure was teetering on the verge of collapse in 2003 and promptly collapsed in the aftermath of the invasion..
2) They assumed that Iraq socially was not that different from 1991 and would hold together fairly well even after the Sunni's were ousted.
Instead, an extra decade of Saddam's dictatorship had far sharpened internal hatreds and differences.
3) They severely misjudged the international opposition to the invasion which robbed it of a great deal of legitimacy both at home and abroad. The international opposition seemed to mainly be a reaction to the idea of "President George W. Bush leading it" rather than any real international standard.
4) They failed to build political support in the aftermath of the invasion when it became clear the U.S. was in for a long, hard occupation. This allowed President Obama to basically walk away from it and allow Iraq to plunge back into chaos.
In its own way the current VA scandal is a grim reminder of what the real cost of Iraq will be, over the long term, until Iraq veterans are no more.
So you hope they die, and die quickly?
We still have WWII and Korean veterans hanging around, as well as Vietnam, Grenada, and Somalia vets.
Wanna snuff them as well?
Our media and our Democrats snatched defeat out of the mouth of victory.
They did it intentionally.
Had they ignored the war like they have since Obama took office Iraq would be different place today.
Iraq. Post mortem. No WMD. No connection to 9-11. Cost, a couple of trillion and counting. The lives of over 4000 of our sons and daughters. The maiming of tens of thousands of our sons and daughters.
What was gained for the US? Nothing.
Some nations need a Strongman, and we are not the good guys in this case. The good guys never go to war, unless they absolutely have to, and we didn't have to. The blood, all of it, is on our hands this time.Articles talking about the mountain of money wasted on the Iraq War are becoming more and more common, and they are written from both sides of the political divide.
Regardless of the dollar amount wasted (and more importantly, the number of casualties), the war constituted a gigantic miscalculation on the part of both the President (Bush 43) and the then-Congress, for which they should all (the ones who promoted it and voted for it) be tarred and feathered.
In essence, this war was fought to (1) topple Saddams regime, because it was perceived internationally as a source of terrorism and needless strife, and (2) capture and destroy his caches of WMDs. There are those who say that the war was justified by the Bush43 Administration as retaliation for 9/11, but I never read anything from the Administration that made that connection overtly. Saddam was simply considered a Bad Actor who had to be deposed. Hell, there was even evidence that he was pursuing a nuclear weapons program.
Two major underlying assumptions of the Administration both proved to be disastrously false: First, that Saddam had WMDs, and second, that the population of Iraq would welcome the American emancipators with open arms, then peacefully form a government that would be an example to the Islamic world that Islam and democracy were not incompatible. Both of these assumptions were based on information that was considered reliable, but proved otherwise. Perversely, Saddam later admitted after his capture that he intentionally maintained the fiction of his WMD arsenal, to keep Iran from launching another invasion. The idea that anyone would act so catastrophically against his own interests was not even imaginable to the Administration, which is why it never crossed their minds that Saddam might actually be faking his possession of chemical and biological weapons. (Of course, there are those who say that the WMDs were moved to Syria and are still there).
And as for the optimistic assessment of the aftermath of our invasion, the Administration simply chose to listen to Iraqi expats who, to use the crude vernacular, were talking out of their asses.
But what are we really liable for? People both here and abroad like to lay the blame for the four thousand or so American deaths and tens of thousands of Iraqi deaths on the U.S. (and particularly Bush43), but this is bullshit.
We never intended to conquer Iraq, or set it up as a colony. And no cogent adult believes that we intended to steal their oil (Democrats are generally not cogent adults for this purpose). We had no interest in killing Iraqis whether they be Sunni, Shia, or Kurd (or Christian). In fact, we were fully prepared to rebuild the whole country after Saddam was gone infrastructure, schools, utilities, everything at our own expense. We WANTED to do that! Our only interest in oil was in maximizing their production, so that they could become self-sustaining and the global market prices would float downward.
The killings of Iraqi civilians were not Americas doing (except in rare cases of collateral damage), but rather Iraqis killing one another because many factions were simply unwilling to accede to civilized power sharing. And this is still the case today.
But this isnt our fault. Its theirs. They own it. They own essentially all of the bloodshed after the American invasion, because it is not what we intended or planned for. People who blame these deaths on "America" or "Bush" or Republicans are either stupid or ignorant. We are the Good Guys. We tried to make things better, but were foiled by a population too backward and ignorant to accept our assistance.
Debate never ends for wars we lose, it usually doesn't end for those we win either.End of debate.
Debate never ends for wars we lose, it usually doesn't end for those we win either.End of debate.
With the Burkas and women bit are talking about Iraq or Afghanistan? If it's the former, than you are even more ill-informed than I previously thought.Our media and our Democrats snatched defeat out of the mouth of victory.
They did it intentionally.
Had they ignored the war like they have since Obama took office Iraq would be different place today.
There would be a lot more dead Americans, dead Iraqi's and our country would be broke.
Republicans can't even say what a "win" would mean in Iraq. So far, women have to live in stuffy tents called Burkas, they can't go outside without a male escort, more than a million Christians have disappeared. And because of all the maimed, the Iraq debacle will end up costing up 4 to 6 trillion.
Read what Republicans think about Muslims. Right here on this board. And they want to tell Muslims how they should live? What a lot of nerve.
Articles talking about the mountain of money wasted on the Iraq War are becoming more and more common, and they are written from both sides of the political divide.
Regardless of the dollar amount wasted (and more importantly, the number of casualties), the war constituted a gigantic miscalculation on the part of both the President (Bush 43) and the then-Congress, for which they should all (the ones who promoted it and voted for it) be tarred and feathered.
In essence, this war was fought to (1) topple Saddams regime, because it was perceived internationally as a source of terrorism and needless strife, and (2) capture and destroy his caches of WMDs. There are those who say that the war was justified by the Bush43 Administration as retaliation for 9/11, but I never read anything from the Administration that made that connection overtly. Saddam was simply considered a Bad Actor who had to be deposed. Hell, there was even evidence that he was pursuing a nuclear weapons program.
Two major underlying assumptions of the Administration both proved to be disastrously false: First, that Saddam had WMDs, and second, that the population of Iraq would welcome the American emancipators with open arms, then peacefully form a government that would be an example to the Islamic world that Islam and democracy were not incompatible. Both of these assumptions were based on information that was considered reliable, but proved otherwise. Perversely, Saddam later admitted after his capture that he intentionally maintained the fiction of his WMD arsenal, to keep Iran from launching another invasion. The idea that anyone would act so catastrophically against his own interests was not even imaginable to the Administration, which is why it never crossed their minds that Saddam might actually be faking his possession of chemical and biological weapons. (Of course, there are those who say that the WMDs were moved to Syria and are still there).
And as for the optimistic assessment of the aftermath of our invasion, the Administration simply chose to listen to Iraqi expats who, to use the crude vernacular, were talking out of their asses.
But what are we really liable for? People both here and abroad like to lay the blame for the four thousand or so American deaths and tens of thousands of Iraqi deaths on the U.S. (and particularly Bush43), but this is bullshit.
We never intended to conquer Iraq, or set it up as a colony. And no cogent adult believes that we intended to steal their oil (Democrats are generally not cogent adults for this purpose). We had no interest in killing Iraqis whether they be Sunni, Shia, or Kurd (or Christian). In fact, we were fully prepared to rebuild the whole country after Saddam was gone infrastructure, schools, utilities, everything at our own expense. We WANTED to do that! Our only interest in oil was in maximizing their production, so that they could become self-sustaining and the global market prices would float downward.
The killings of Iraqi civilians were not Americas doing (except in rare cases of collateral damage), but rather Iraqis killing one another because many factions were simply unwilling to accede to civilized power sharing. And this is still the case today.
But this isnt our fault. Its theirs. They own it. They own essentially all of the bloodshed after the American invasion, because it is not what we intended or planned for. People who blame these deaths on "America" or "Bush" or Republicans are either stupid or ignorant. We are the Good Guys. We tried to make things better, but were foiled by a population too backward and ignorant to accept our assistance.
It's okay to believe that if it helps you to sleep.
Bin Laden did, and it worked out great for him. We did exactly as he expected we would, we start a war with the Muslims of the world.Don't fuck with America.
Mexicans and Canadians are Americans and neither is confused with the greatest purveyor of violence in the world.Articles talking about the mountain of money wasted on the Iraq War are becoming more and more common, and they are written from both sides of the political divide.
Regardless of the dollar amount wasted (and more importantly, the number of casualties), the war constituted a gigantic miscalculation on the part of both the President (Bush 43) and the then-Congress, for which they should all (the ones who promoted it and voted for it) be tarred and feathered.
In essence, this war was fought to (1) topple Saddams regime, because it was perceived internationally as a source of terrorism and needless strife, and (2) capture and destroy his caches of WMDs. There are those who say that the war was justified by the Bush43 Administration as retaliation for 9/11, but I never read anything from the Administration that made that connection overtly. Saddam was simply considered a Bad Actor who had to be deposed. Hell, there was even evidence that he was pursuing a nuclear weapons program.
Two major underlying assumptions of the Administration both proved to be disastrously false: First, that Saddam had WMDs, and second, that the population of Iraq would welcome the American emancipators with open arms, then peacefully form a government that would be an example to the Islamic world that Islam and democracy were not incompatible. Both of these assumptions were based on information that was considered reliable, but proved otherwise. Perversely, Saddam later admitted after his capture that he intentionally maintained the fiction of his WMD arsenal, to keep Iran from launching another invasion. The idea that anyone would act so catastrophically against his own interests was not even imaginable to the Administration, which is why it never crossed their minds that Saddam might actually be faking his possession of chemical and biological weapons. (Of course, there are those who say that the WMDs were moved to Syria and are still there).
And as for the optimistic assessment of the aftermath of our invasion, the Administration simply chose to listen to Iraqi expats who, to use the crude vernacular, were talking out of their asses.
But what are we really liable for? People both here and abroad like to lay the blame for the four thousand or so American deaths and tens of thousands of Iraqi deaths on the U.S. (and particularly Bush43), but this is bullshit.
We never intended to conquer Iraq, or set it up as a colony. And no cogent adult believes that we intended to steal their oil (Democrats are generally not cogent adults for this purpose). We had no interest in killing Iraqis whether they be Sunni, Shia, or Kurd (or Christian). In fact, we were fully prepared to rebuild the whole country after Saddam was gone infrastructure, schools, utilities, everything at our own expense. We WANTED to do that! Our only interest in oil was in maximizing their production, so that they could become self-sustaining and the global market prices would float downward.
The killings of Iraqi civilians were not Americas doing (except in rare cases of collateral damage), but rather Iraqis killing one another because many factions were simply unwilling to accede to civilized power sharing. And this is still the case today.
But this isnt our fault. Its theirs. They own it. They own essentially all of the bloodshed after the American invasion, because it is not what we intended or planned for. People who blame these deaths on "America" or "Bush" or Republicans are either stupid or ignorant. We are the Good Guys. We tried to make things better, but were foiled by a population too backward and ignorant to accept our assistance.
It's okay to believe that if it helps you to sleep.
We don't understand Muslims anymore than we understand Asians, Canadians, Mexicans or Russians. Nor do they understand us. The only lesson is that if they fuck with us in any serious way, we deal with them in a serious way...a way by which they learn a lifelong lesson. Don't fuck with America.
