A mangled Constitution

[rightwinger]

However it was not their intent that it be stretched twisted and stomped out of recognition. That's why they wrote it down. But we have lost the power of self government. Maybe even the ability.
The wing nuts go first. Watch the cities burn in direct proportion to the length of their time as Democrst fiefdoms living under Supreme Court rules.

Thank you Cpt Hyperbole

 

[Packyderm]

Hey speaking of the Constitution and amendment process....did the Equal Rights Amendment ever pass?
No I do remember. It failed. Was resurrected and clung at us again like a rotting corpse. Failed again didn't it? Equal Rights for Women as an amendment was shoved back down the throats of cultural Marxists.
Yet it's the law. Weird.

 

[jillian]

I think the Constitution has been bent and twisted into a form the Founders and Framers would not recognize except as an example of their worst fears. They crystallized a document to restrict the central government for all time yet left an amendment process, with high hurdles, for necessary changes. And they depended on an educated and moral people of a common heritage to zealously guard it, a divided government where each branch kept a lid on the others ambitions and finally...a set of sovereign entities called states to bind the central government to its duties.
The assault on these protections has been devastating. First you had the 14th amendment imposed by force of bayonets and conquest rather than will of people. It may have been backed by good intentions but so is the road to hell. Rulings relying on the 14 th amendment are the fruit of a poisoned tree... Imposed on an unwilling citizenry over their objections. And the tyrants doing it can grin and say "it's your constitution"...a lie. Neither the people nor the states ever ratified or accepted it.
But the attacks go deeper than that springboard. Like something from Orwells imagination they then claim that rights which didn't exist yesterday, and which the authors never saw, were really there all along waiting for jurists smart enough to see them.
The authors didn't know about it.... They were supernaturally channeling Oprah and Cher from the future and hiding it away in code all along!

"educated and moral people of a common heritage".

wow....white supremacists are really funny.

if only you actually understood the constitution. the founders didn't even agree on things. but which thing do you think they were kidding about? equal protection under the law? freedom of religion for EVERYONE? no unreasonable search and seizure?

which thing offends your bigoted little white christian supremacist heart?

 

[rightwinger]

Hey speaking of the Constitution and amendment process....did the Equal Rights Amendment ever pass?
No I do remember. It failed. Was resurrected and clung at us again like a rotting corpse. Failed again didn't it? Equal Rights for Women as an amendment was shoved back down the throats of cultural Marxists.
Yet it's the law. Weird.

Yea..that happens

Kind of like that Balanced Budget Amendment

 

[Wry Catcher]

I think the Constitution has been bent and twisted into a form the Founders and Framers would not recognize except as an example of their worst fears. They crystallized a document to restrict the central government for all time yet left an amendment process, with high hurdles, for necessary changes. And they depended on an educated and moral people of a common heritage to zealously guard it, a divided government where each branch kept a lid on the others ambitions and finally...a set of sovereign entities called states to bind the central government to its duties.

The assault on these protections has been devastating. First you had the 14th amendment imposed by force of bayonets and conquest rather than will of people. It may have been backed by good intentions but so is the road to hell. Rulings relying on the 14 th amendment are the fruit of a poisoned tree... Imposed on an unwilling citizenry over their objections. And the tyrants doing it can grin and say "it's your constitution"...a lie. Neither the people nor the states ever ratified or accepted it.

But the attacks go deeper than that springboard. Like something from Orwells imagination they then claim that rights which didn't exist yesterday, and which the authors never saw, were really there all along waiting for jurists smart enough to see them.
The authors didn't know about it.... They were supernaturally channeling Oprah and Cher from the future and hiding it away in code all along!

The 14th Amendment was ratified by every state. It is the law of the land. Don't like it, repeal it; I'm sure there are others who will support you in that endeavor.

 

[jillian]

Hey speaking of the Constitution and amendment process....did the Equal Rights Amendment ever pass?
No I do remember. It failed. Was resurrected and clung at us again like a rotting corpse. Failed again didn't it? Equal Rights for Women as an amendment was shoved back down the throats of cultural Marxists.
Yet it's the law. Weird.

laws can be overturned or repealed. constitutional amendment would require that the whole amendment process be pursued again before the advances could be taken away.

is that something you don't understand?

 

[strollingbones]

well hello there honey....i see you are making friends.....

 

[jillian]

well hello there honey....i see you are making friends.....

lol... hi darlin'

 

[Packyderm]

However it was not their intent that it be stretched twisted and stomped out of recognition. That's why they wrote it down. But we have lost the power of self government. Maybe even the ability.
The wing nuts go first. Watch the cities burn in direct proportion to the length of their time as Democrst fiefdoms living under Supreme Court rules.

Thank you Cpt Hyperbole

Maybe I dont know what "hyperbole" is. You could help me. Is this Hyperbole?

Or this?

Or this?

 

[rightwinger]

However it was not their intent that it be stretched twisted and stomped out of recognition. That's why they wrote it down. But we have lost the power of self government. Maybe even the ability.
The wing nuts go first. Watch the cities burn in direct proportion to the length of their time as Democrst fiefdoms living under Supreme Court rules.

Thank you Cpt Hyperbole

Maybe I dont know what "hyperbole" is. You could help me. Is this Hyperbole?

Or this?

Or this?

Dogs and Cats living together, mass hysteria

 

[Packyderm]

I think the Constitution has been bent and twisted into a form the Founders and Framers would not recognize except as an example of their worst fears. They crystallized a document to restrict the central government for all time yet left an amendment process, with high hurdles, for necessary changes. And they depended on an educated and moral people of a common heritage to zealously guard it, a divided government where each branch kept a lid on the others ambitions and finally...a set of sovereign entities called states to bind the central government to its duties.
The assault on these protections has been devastating. First you had the 14th amendment imposed by force of bayonets and conquest rather than will of people. It may have been backed by good intentions but so is the road to hell. Rulings relying on the 14 th amendment are the fruit of a poisoned tree... Imposed on an unwilling citizenry over their objections. And the tyrants doing it can grin and say "it's your constitution"...a lie. Neither the people nor the states ever ratified or accepted it.
But the attacks go deeper than that springboard. Like something from Orwells imagination they then claim that rights which didn't exist yesterday, and which the authors never saw, were really there all along waiting for jurists smart enough to see them.
The authors didn't know about it.... They were supernaturally channeling Oprah and Cher from the future and hiding it away in code all along!

And you’re entitled to think whatever you want, with the understanding that what you think is both ignorant and wrong.

It was the original understanding and intent of the Framers that the Constitution be subject to interpretation through the process of judicial review, that the Constitution exists solely in the context of its case law, and that the Founding Generation did not presume to have a comprehensive, finite knowledge of our rights and protected liberties.

They did however know that power lusts after ever more power and tends towards centralization.. They didn't know the future, as you said, but they knew the past. And so with their "finite knowledge" they left a document conferring *finite* powers...leaving the remainder "to the people...or the states respectively".
Now you say the Supreme Court should interpret the Constitution. Let it be so for now, even though in 2003 they ruled that marriage is the domain of the states previously (United States v. Windsor) That doesn't imply an omnipotent court or an infallible court or a correct court. And it doesn't imply that the court couldn't overstep its bounds.
The courts power of judicial review applies only when it is following the Constitution. If it decides it is in charge then it no longer is. But people like you worship the court and not the principles. Had you lived in the 18th century your position would be as clear in those debates as well. I can imagine your opinions as you would have stated them then...

Thomas Gage,Parliament et al "Per the legally passed The Quartering Act of 1765, with Royal Assent, and signed by the governor, and approved by the judiciary you MUST quarter troops of the Army sent to repress you in your houses and inns"

New York Provincial Legislature " We will not. It is inimical to Liberty. You have overstepped your bounds"

C_Clayton_Jones: Oh yes you will! Parliament makes the laws! You bunch of rebels are traitors because you wont follow the laws. And anyway they are for your own good.

 

[norwegen]

If you don't like our constitution, you are free to take your traitorous ass somewhere else dumbo.

If you were alive more than a hundred years ago, when you progtards started mouthing your contempt for the Constitution, and then reconstituting it, would you have left?

 

[Packyderm]

Hey speaking of the Constitution and amendment process....did the Equal Rights Amendment ever pass?
No I do remember. It failed. Was resurrected and clung at us again like a rotting corpse. Failed again didn't it? Equal Rights for Women as an amendment was shoved back down the throats of cultural Marxists.
Yet it's the law. Weird.

Yea..that happens

Kind of like that Balanced Budget Amendment

We have a balanced budget amendment? Where?

 

[Packyderm]

However it was not their intent that it be stretched twisted and stomped out of recognition. That's why they wrote it down. But we have lost the power of self government. Maybe even the ability.
The wing nuts go first. Watch the cities burn in direct proportion to the length of their time as Democrst fiefdoms living under Supreme Court rules.

Thank you Cpt Hyperbole

Maybe I dont know what "hyperbole" is. You could help me. Is this Hyperbole?

Or this?

Or this?

Dogs and Cats living together, mass hysteria

Dogs and cats can live together as is demonstrated every day. But Democratic vote farms of miles wide intentionally created slums depending on the next transfer from worker to the idle living politically alongside decent Americans...not so likely.

 

[rightwinger]

Hey speaking of the Constitution and amendment process....did the Equal Rights Amendment ever pass?
No I do remember. It failed. Was resurrected and clung at us again like a rotting corpse. Failed again didn't it? Equal Rights for Women as an amendment was shoved back down the throats of cultural Marxists.
Yet it's the law. Weird.

Yea..that happens

Kind of like that Balanced Budget Amendment

We have a balanced budget amendment? Where?

Went right over your head didn't it?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

However it was not their intent that it be stretched twisted and stomped out of recognition. That's why they wrote it down. But we have lost the power of self government. Maybe even the ability.
The wing nuts go first. Watch the cities burn in direct proportion to the length of their time as Democrst fiefdoms living under Supreme Court rules.

Thank you Cpt Hyperbole

Maybe I dont know what "hyperbole" is. You could help me. Is this Hyperbole?

Or this?

Or this?

You don’t know what the Constitution is, either.

 

[Packyderm]

I think the Constitution has been bent and twisted into a form the Founders and Framers would not recognize except as an example of their worst fears. They crystallized a document to restrict the central government for all time yet left an amendment process, with high hurdles, for necessary changes. And they depended on an educated and moral people of a common heritage to zealously guard it, a divided government where each branch kept a lid on the others ambitions and finally...a set of sovereign entities called states to bind the central government to its duties.

The assault on these protections has been devastating. First you had the 14th amendment imposed by force of bayonets and conquest rather than will of people. It may have been backed by good intentions but so is the road to hell. Rulings relying on the 14 th amendment are the fruit of a poisoned tree... Imposed on an unwilling citizenry over their objections. And the tyrants doing it can grin and say "it's your constitution"...a lie. Neither the people nor the states ever ratified or accepted it.

But the attacks go deeper than that springboard. Like something from Orwells imagination they then claim that rights which didn't exist yesterday, and which the authors never saw, were really there all along waiting for jurists smart enough to see them.
The authors didn't know about it.... They were supernaturally channeling Oprah and Cher from the future and hiding it away in code all along!

The 14th Amendment was ratified by every state. It is the law of the land. Don't like it, repeal it; I'm sure there are others who will support you in that endeavor.

There is nothing to repeal nor does the process seem to even exist any longer. As I pointed out earlier when the Equal Rights Amendment was rejected the liberals just pretended it had passed.
But where do you get the idea every state passed the 14th Amendment? You dont have to take my word for it. It is a matter of record. I'll help a little but you should read it for yourself so you will know the truth of the matter.

Even a victorious Union balked adding the 14th to the Constitution. And that was in a time when the amendment process was actually followed...the forms anyhow. The Constitution sets a high bar for amendments and rightfully so. In fact it sets it so high liberals now just use the courts to modify the constitution.
In the case of the 14th amendment even the Northern states knew it would lead to totalitarianism. There was no way it would get the 2/3 votes in Congress it needed to even be presented to the states. BUT, since it only takes a bare majority to refuse a seat in congress, they proceeded to unseat 22 Senators and 58 representatives from the South. These were senators and represenatives who had supported the 13th Amendment by the way. Now they felt confident. Except they still couldn't get a 2/3 vote in favor. Too many northern states objected that free government died with this amendment. They fell one short in the Senate even after disenfranchising half the country. The solution? The senate expelled New Jersey illegally LINK whose Senators were refusing to vote for the amendment and thus were able to pass the resolution by a bare one vote. Link
"...no state, without its consent, shall be deprived of its equal suffrage in the Senate." Article V

President Johnson objected and impeachment proceeedings were begun against him. The President of the United States OBJECTED for the same reasons everyone should have. "This importance is at the present time enhanced by the fact that the joint resolution was not submitted by the two Houses for the thirty-six States which constitute the Union, eleven are excluded from representation in either House of Congress, although with the single exception of Texas, they have been entirely restored to all their functions as States, in conformity with the organic law of the land, and have appeared at the National Capitol by Senators and Representatives who have applied for and have been refused admission to the vacant seats."

And so on to the states unlawfully..or at least unjustly.

Oct 1866 Texas rejects
Nov 1866 Georgia rejects
Dec 1866 NC rejects
Dec 1866 SC rejects
Jan 1867 KY rejects
Jan 1867 Virginia rejects
Feb 1867 LA rejects
Feb 1867 Delaware rejects
March 1867 Maryland rejects
Jan 1868 Mississippi rejects

Amendment fails mathematically! You can look up the rejection votes and proclamations yourself. I assume that having done so you can add them up yourself and decide what 3/4 would be for acceptance...and agree with me the amendment failed. "Amendments...shall be valid...when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states"..Artricle V

Secretary of State Seward reports the failure to Congress. Except tyrants don't take rejection well. Ten states were ejected from the Union and military dictatorships set up to rule them. Generals recomposed the state legislators and, in some cases, attended with troops to force the new legislators to ratify the 14th. In outrage two more northern states rejected the amendment while California objected by refusing to vote either way. Then Ohio, Maryland and New Jersey rescinded their ratification citing the illegal use of force to impose a change in the Constitution (a coup in other words) joined by Oregon who cited an illegal state government.
Congress passed a resolution *ordering* the Secty of State to proclaim the amendment passed and on July 20 1868 the Secretary of State obliged but implied that the amendment lacked validity by inserting the words "if valid" in his proclamation he had published in the press.
None of which seem like very good methods for free people to change their constitution.

 

[Tennyson]

I think the Constitution has been bent and twisted into a form the Founders and Framers would not recognize except as an example of their worst fears. They crystallized a document to restrict the central government for all time yet left an amendment process, with high hurdles, for necessary changes. And they depended on an educated and moral people of a common heritage to zealously guard it, a divided government where each branch kept a lid on the others ambitions and finally...a set of sovereign entities called states to bind the central government to its duties.

The assault on these protections has been devastating. First you had the 14th amendment imposed by force of bayonets and conquest rather than will of people. It may have been backed by good intentions but so is the road to hell. Rulings relying on the 14 th amendment are the fruit of a poisoned tree... Imposed on an unwilling citizenry over their objections. And the tyrants doing it can grin and say "it's your constitution"...a lie. Neither the people nor the states ever ratified or accepted it.

But the attacks go deeper than that springboard. Like something from Orwells imagination they then claim that rights which didn't exist yesterday, and which the authors never saw, were really there all along waiting for jurists smart enough to see them.
The authors didn't know about it.... They were supernaturally channeling Oprah and Cher from the future and hiding it away in code all along!

The 14th Amendment was ratified by every state. It is the law of the land. Don't like it, repeal it; I'm sure there are others who will support you in that endeavor.

There is nothing to repeal nor does the process seem to even exist any longer. As I pointed out earlier when the Equal Rights Amendment was rejected the liberals just pretended it had passed.
But where do you get the idea every state passed the 14th Amendment? You dont have to take my word for it. It is a matter of record. I'll help a little but you should read it for yourself so you will know the truth of the matter.

Even a victorious Union balked adding the 14th to the Constitution. And that was in a time when the amendment process was actually followed...the forms anyhow. The Constitution sets a high bar for amendments and rightfully so. In fact it sets it so high liberals now just use the courts to modify the constitution.
In the case of the 14th amendment even the Northern states knew it would lead to totalitarianism. There was no way it would get the 2/3 votes in Congress it needed to even be presented to the states. BUT, since it only takes a bare majority to refuse a seat in congress, they proceeded to unseat 22 Senators and 58 representatives from the South. These were senators and represenatives who had supported the 13th Amendment by the way. Now they felt confident. Except they still couldn't get a 2/3 vote in favor. Too many northern states objected that free government died with this amendment. They fell one short in the Senate even after disenfranchising half the country. The solution? The senate expelled New Jersey illegally LINK whose Senators were refusing to vote for the amendment and thus were able to pass the resolution by a bare one vote. Link
"...no state, without its consent, shall be deprived of its equal suffrage in the Senate." Article V

President Johnson objected and impeachment proceeedings were begun against him. The President of the United States OBJECTED for the same reasons everyone should have. "This importance is at the present time enhanced by the fact that the joint resolution was not submitted by the two Houses for the thirty-six States which constitute the Union, eleven are excluded from representation in either House of Congress, although with the single exception of Texas, they have been entirely restored to all their functions as States, in conformity with the organic law of the land, and have appeared at the National Capitol by Senators and Representatives who have applied for and have been refused admission to the vacant seats."

And so on to the states unlawfully..or at least unjustly.

Oct 1866 Texas rejects
Nov 1866 Georgia rejects
Dec 1866 NC rejects
Dec 1866 SC rejects
Jan 1867 KY rejects
Jan 1867 Virginia rejects
Feb 1867 LA rejects
Feb 1867 Delaware rejects
March 1867 Maryland rejects
Jan 1868 Mississippi rejects

Amendment fails mathematically! You can look up the rejection votes and proclamations yourself. I assume that having done so you can add them up yourself and decide what 3/4 would be for acceptance...and agree with me the amendment failed. "Amendments...shall be valid...when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states"..Artricle V

Secretary of State Seward reports the failure to Congress. Except tyrants don't take rejection well. Ten states were ejected from the Union and military dictatorships set up to rule them. Generals recomposed the state legislators and, in some cases, attended with troops to force the new legislators to ratify the 14th. In outrage two more northern states rejected the amendment while California objected by refusing to vote either way. Then Ohio, Maryland and New Jersey rescinded their ratification citing the illegal use of force to impose a change in the Constitution (a coup in other words) joined by Oregon who cited an illegal state government.
Congress passed a resolution *ordering* the Secty of State to proclaim the amendment passed and on July 20 1868 the Secretary of State obliged but implied that the amendment lacked validity by inserting the words "if valid" in his proclamation he had published in the press.
None of which seem like very good methods for free people to change their constitution.

The Fourteenth Amendment's ratification process violated Article V's amendment process and the Senate suffrage clause of Article V. Regardless of either one, it had little affect outside the privilege and immunity's clause of Article IV. Its sweeping jurisdiction over the states was created by judicial fiat in the twentieth century.

 

[Skylar]

I think the Constitution has been bent and twisted into a form the Founders and Framers would not recognize except as an example of their worst fears. They crystallized a document to restrict the central government for all time yet left an amendment process, with high hurdles, for necessary changes. And they depended on an educated and moral people of a common heritage to zealously guard it, a divided government where each branch kept a lid on the others ambitions and finally...a set of sovereign entities called states to bind the central government to its duties.
The assault on these protections has been devastating. First you had the 14th amendment imposed by force of bayonets and conquest rather than will of people. It may have been backed by good intentions but so is the road to hell. Rulings relying on the 14 th amendment are the fruit of a poisoned tree... Imposed on an unwilling citizenry over their objections. And the tyrants doing it can grin and say "it's your constitution"...a lie. Neither the people nor the states ever ratified or accepted it.
But the attacks go deeper than that springboard. Like something from Orwells imagination they then claim that rights which didn't exist yesterday, and which the authors never saw, were really there all along waiting for jurists smart enough to see them.
The authors didn't know about it.... They were supernaturally channeling Oprah and Cher from the future and hiding it away in code all along!

The people don't vote for Amendments under the Constitution. State legislatures do. And the State legislatures voted in the 14th amendment.

That you don't like the amendment doesn't magically make it disappear. Especially when you lamented about how the constitution can only be changed by the very process used when passing the 14th amendment.

And the 14th amendment served a wildly valuable purpose: preventing the States from violating the rights of people. Check out Barron V. Baltimore.

Before the 14th amendment the States were not bound to the Bill of Rights. The States can and did flagrantly violate the Bill of Rights. And the Federal government had no recourse and the Bill of Rights limited only the Federal Government.

That's fucking ridiculous. It was a huge, truck sized hole in our constitution, a place where the founders utterly fucked up.....and the 14th corrected their mistake.

 

[strollingbones]

hey jillian.....lol packy is my old friend ...we have known each other for over a couple of decades now....he is a close and dear friend ...packy this may or may not help ya ....i invited him here....evil smile

play nice ...everyone...