A question seldom asked about abortion.

[PredFan]

Abortion enables women to behave irresponsibly. Because they realize they have the option, so it makes them more likely to fuck a guy without a condom, more likely to have drunken one night stands, etc because they know they can get an abortion. Women have the ultimate responsibility to prevent pregnancy because they are the ones who get pregnant. It's just fact..

I've never had an abortion, lacking the proper equipment being the reason, but I understand it is not a painless procedure. I find it hard to believe that any woman would chosse abortion as birth control when they can get cheaper and less painfull options.

You are touching on the issue i am trying to address. The kind of careless sexual activity you are talking about has other hazards besides pregnancy. Maybe we need to look into why some women choose that kind of lifestyle.

People get tattoos and that is not painless......

If someone invented a painless technique that put permanent vivid art on the skin, do you really think that they would choose the painful way?

 

[AmyNation]

Most women who have abortions are young poor single mothers. So while I don't agree that most of those potential people would have been criminals, odds are they would have been cared for at some point by state assistance.

 

[thanatos144]

RvW was upheld in 1973.
55 Million legal abortions since it was.

If it hadn't been then there would have been more people in this country.

Is it fair to assume that 5 million of them would have been illegal abortions?

So 50 million people in this country that aren't here today.

These people weren't wanted obviously, how many of them would have ended up as a burden to society? Criminals, leeches on life-time on entitlement programs, I mean you can't convince me that there are going to be a whole bunch of Tim Tebows in that group.

So the question is where is the real issue to tackle here?

Women are getting pregnant when they don't want to be. I find it hard to believe that these women don't know how they get pregnant or how to avoid it.

Are they stupid? Is it an education problem? A mental health issue? An alcohol or drug problem? Is it our society in general?

I'm pro-life personally, but do we really want over one million unwanted kids born each year in this country? Seems to me the issue isn't with abortion, but elsewhere. Where?

Those kids could have been someone who cured cancer

An unwanted child overcomes all that and becomes someone who cures cancer? Possibly, but what about the 54,999,999? Odds are much better that none of the 55 million will cure cancer and most of them will end up on some form of assistance.



No one is EVER going to do that.

made it legal for stoner liberaltarians to smoke pot...

What is the point of that attack? I don't even smoke pot.

So cause you are a cheap fuck you think they need to Die???? What crime did the child commit?

I didn't say any of that, asshole.

You are equating population with the need to kill babies....What crime did they commit that takes their right to life away?????

 

[Paulie]

RvW was upheld in 1973.
55 Million legal abortions since it was.

If it hadn't been then there would have been more people in this country.

Is it fair to assume that 5 million of them would have been illegal abortions?

So 50 million people in this country that aren't here today.

These people weren't wanted obviously, how many of them would have ended up as a burden to society? Criminals, leeches on life-time on entitlement programs, I mean you can't convince me that there are going to be a whole bunch of Tim Tebows in that group.

Just because the parents had an abortion doesn't mean that if they HADN'T, they wouldn't have satisfactorily raised the child.

You could just as easily look at those 50 million and think to yourself how many more productive members of society there would be right now contributing to the economy.

No one can know for sure how many would have been productive and how many would have been leeches, but at the end of the day you can't say we haven't missed out on something.

 

[MHunterB]

I don't know about curing cancer - but the research project my son's working on has the potential to eliminate infections attaching to medical implants. It won't cure cancer - but it CAN be applied to putting most general dentists out of business.....

My first pregnancy resulted in a miscarriage: I *had* to have the exact same procedure as a first-trimester abortion in order to be able to conceive again - possibly in order to stay alive (sepsis). So when people start talking about such procedures and the need to limit them, I become concerned.

We've already outlawed ONE medical procedure which preserved fertility and saved lives. There was no evidence ever presented that this procedure had been performed outside of the 'indicated' situation (ie, the medical condition for which it was legitimately and appropriately prescribed).

 

[PredFan]

Most women who have abortions are young poor single mothers. So while I don't agree that most of those potential people would have been criminals, odds are they would have been cared for at some point by state assistance.

Not most, many would have been criminals. By that I mean in gangs and such. I think it's been shown that missing fathers in a young man's life, quite often leads to a life of crime.

These were unwanted children, and if their mom had no choice but to birth tem, odds are they would remain unwanted. That'
s a difficult thing to grow up with.

 

[PredFan]

Those kids could have been someone who cured cancer

An unwanted child overcomes all that and becomes someone who cures cancer? Possibly, but what about the 54,999,999? Odds are much better that none of the 55 million will cure cancer and most of them will end up on some form of assistance.



No one is EVER going to do that.




What is the point of that attack? I don't even smoke pot.

So cause you are a cheap fuck you think they need to Die???? What crime did the child commit?

I didn't say any of that, asshole.

You are equating population with the need to kill babies....What crime did they commit that takes their right to life away?????

No, I'm not.

 

[ArmyCowboy]

Most women who have abortions are young poor single mothers. So while I don't agree that most of those potential people would have been criminals, odds are they would have been cared for at some point by state assistance.

Agreed

And the cycle would also be repeated by these poor people, so there would actually be more than 55 million.

 

[PredFan]

RvW was upheld in 1973.
55 Million legal abortions since it was.

If it hadn't been then there would have been more people in this country.

Is it fair to assume that 5 million of them would have been illegal abortions?

So 50 million people in this country that aren't here today.

These people weren't wanted obviously, how many of them would have ended up as a burden to society? Criminals, leeches on life-time on entitlement programs, I mean you can't convince me that there are going to be a whole bunch of Tim Tebows in that group.

Just because the parents had an abortion doesn't mean that if they HADN'T, they wouldn't have satisfactorily raised the child.

Of course that's true. I would bet that if there was a way to measure it, the proportion of that 55 million who end up raised poorly, would be much much higher than the general population.

You could just as easily look at those 50 million and think to yourself how many more productive members of society there would be right now contributing to the economy.

Certaily you could do that but realistically, my interpretation is more likely. I'm talking in general here.

No one can know for sure how many would have been productive and how many would have been leeches, but at the end of the day you can't say we haven't missed out on something.

I understand your point and don't disagree. My point with this thread is to ask; "Why can't we look at the cause of the need for those 55 million abortions?". You seldom hear about people looking at it that way. It's possible that I didn't express that in as clear and concise a manner as I should have.

 

[Borillar]

sounds like some of you are advocating abortion for population control. China already does that, are we no better than China?

Overpopulation is a real problem, but abortion is not the answer. preventing the pregnancy before it happens makes a lot more sense and is much less expensive for society as a whole.

So why does the right have such a big problem with birth control and sex education then?

 

[PredFan]

sounds like some of you are advocating abortion for population control. China already does that, are we no better than China?

Overpopulation is a real problem, but abortion is not the answer. preventing the pregnancy before it happens makes a lot more sense and is much less expensive for society as a whole.

So why does the right have such a big problem with birth control and sex education then?

That is the fringe right. You liberals love to pretend that that is the majority. It's a nice little strawman argument you love trot out and ridicule.

 

[Borillar]

sounds like some of you are advocating abortion for population control. China already does that, are we no better than China?

Overpopulation is a real problem, but abortion is not the answer. preventing the pregnancy before it happens makes a lot more sense and is much less expensive for society as a whole.

So why does the right have such a big problem with birth control and sex education then?

That is the fringe right. You liberals love to pretend that that is the majority. It's a nice little strawman argument you love trot out and ridicule.

If they are just a fringe element, they sure seem to have undue influence on your party platform and positions. Their position seems to be that of abstinence and ignorance. If we stick our heads in the sand, the problem will go away.

 

[asterism]

RvW was upheld in 1973.
55 Million legal abortions since it was.

If it hadn't been then there would have been more people in this country.

Is it fair to assume that 5 million of them would have been illegal abortions?

So 50 million people in this country that aren't here today.

These people weren't wanted obviously, how many of them would have ended up as a burden to society? Criminals, leeches on life-time on entitlement programs, I mean you can't convince me that there are going to be a whole bunch of Tim Tebows in that group.

So the question is where is the real issue to tackle here?

Women are getting pregnant when they don't want to be. I find it hard to believe that these women don't know how they get pregnant or how to avoid it.

Are they stupid? Is it an education problem? A mental health issue? An alcohol or drug problem? Is it our society in general?

I'm pro-life personally, but do we really want over one million unwanted kids born each year in this country? Seems to me the issue isn't with abortion, but elsewhere. Where?

That right there is one of the reasons I am pro-choice. It really is a good question. Dumpster babies, orphanages, terrible childhood from parents that do not even want the kid. Perhaps leading to another Lanza..

Lanza's mental health issues were not a result of him being unwanted by his parents.

 

[thanatos144]

An unwanted child overcomes all that and becomes someone who cures cancer? Possibly, but what about the 54,999,999? Odds are much better that none of the 55 million will cure cancer and most of them will end up on some form of assistance.



No one is EVER going to do that.




What is the point of that attack? I don't even smoke pot.



I didn't say any of that, asshole.

You are equating population with the need to kill babies....What crime did they commit that takes their right to life away?????

No, I'm not.

Of course you are....What the hell did you think you meant when saying that with so many being poor they would be a drain on society???? Echoes of Auschwitz in the whole disgusting premise..... Who made you god?

 

[PredFan]

So why does the right have such a big problem with birth control and sex education then?

That is the fringe right. You liberals love to pretend that that is the majority. It's a nice little strawman argument you love trot out and ridicule.

If they are just a fringe element, they sure seem to have undue influence on your party platform and positions. Their position seems to be that of abstinence and ignorance. If we stick our heads in the sand, the problem will go away.

Again, that exists in your own mind. You choose to believe that is the majority because you can easily ridicule it. It has no bearing on the truth.

What did George Bush do about birth control and sex ed? What did Bush before him do? Or Reagan? Can you link to a thread where a majority of the conservatives here agreed that birth control or sex ed should be banned? I mean outside of the religion forum.

 

[PredFan]

You are equating population with the need to kill babies....What crime did they commit that takes their right to life away?????

No, I'm not.

Of course you are....What the hell did you think you meant when saying that with so many being poor they would be a drain on society???? Echoes of Auschwitz in the whole disgusting premise..... Who made you god?

You are a moron.

 

[TNHarley]

RvW was upheld in 1973.
55 Million legal abortions since it was.

If it hadn't been then there would have been more people in this country.

Is it fair to assume that 5 million of them would have been illegal abortions?

So 50 million people in this country that aren't here today.

These people weren't wanted obviously, how many of them would have ended up as a burden to society? Criminals, leeches on life-time on entitlement programs, I mean you can't convince me that there are going to be a whole bunch of Tim Tebows in that group.

So the question is where is the real issue to tackle here?

Women are getting pregnant when they don't want to be. I find it hard to believe that these women don't know how they get pregnant or how to avoid it.

Are they stupid? Is it an education problem? A mental health issue? An alcohol or drug problem? Is it our society in general?

I'm pro-life personally, but do we really want over one million unwanted kids born each year in this country? Seems to me the issue isn't with abortion, but elsewhere. Where?

That right there is one of the reasons I am pro-choice. It really is a good question. Dumpster babies, orphanages, terrible childhood from parents that do not even want the kid. Perhaps leading to another Lanza..

Lanza's mental health issues were not a result of him being unwanted by his parents.

I know... I was not clear. I was just trying to refer to his mental state. Psychopath if you will

 

[ArmyCowboy]

No, I'm not.

Of course you are....What the hell did you think you meant when saying that with so many being poor they would be a drain on society???? Echoes of Auschwitz in the whole disgusting premise..... Who made you god?

You are a moron.

That's not really fair to morons.

 

[Scorpion]

We have become a disposable society.
We throw things away when they are of no use to us.

When there are individuals who sttempt to convince a young woman that the fertilized egg is nothing more than a mass of cells(a heartbeat is detectable at six weeks gestation) rather than a potential valuable human life they have turned the corner on passing down any sense of morality.
Oddly, I picked up an old copy of The Cider House Rules in a used bookstore covering the subject from the viewpoint of the 30,s and 40's sofar. Back then, there were few options for pregnancy prevention.
Now, there is no reason a woman cannot prevent such an event.
It's inexcusable, but its been an accepted form of birth control for 40 years.

And before someone tags me a religious wingnut, I'm agnostic, so that comeback can circle the drain.

 

[PredFan]

We have become a disposable society.
We throw things away when they are of no use to us.

Quite true.

When there are individuals who attempt to convince a young woman that the fertilized egg is nothing more than a mass of cells(a heartbeat is detectable at six weeks gestation) rather than a potential valuable human life they have turned the corner on passing down any sense of morality.

I truely believe that there are very few women who actually believe that completely. Men? Possibly. Women? Not wholly. I believe that abortion haunts women for the rest of their lives. I woinder how many women have undergone more than one abortion.

Oddly, I picked up an old copy of The Cider House Rules in a used bookstore covering the subject from the viewpoint of the 30,s and 40's sofar. Back then, there were few options for pregnancy prevention.
Now, there is no reason a woman cannot prevent such an event.

Agreed, and I don't think it is a birth control option of choice for anyone. What leads women to abortions? That is the question I want answered. Why not take a pill? Why not choose I diaphram? Why choose an invasive procedure that is much more expensive and painful?

And before someone tags me a religious wingnut, I'm agnostic, so that comeback can circle the drain.

I'm pro-life personally, but pro-choice politically.