A simple question.

[Indeependent]

Money owed to vendors for services/products rendered is not debt payable with virtual tax money?

Not sure what this has to do with my post you've quoted.

You are insisting that Federal Taxes are not utilized at all.

Let's look at FICA. FICA doesn't "fund" social security. The dollars are withheld from workers paychecks, the amount paid is recorded on a spreadsheet, and the dollars are destroyed. This spreadsheet? The 'trust fund.' The supposed "warehouse" is nothing more then a bunch of recorded numbers.

But there are NO dollars delivered anywhere.
You are saying that money is printed at the mint and destroyed and kept virtually?
Why have the intermediary printing phase?

What makes you think any money is printed at the mint to fund social security? Money is only printed because we want something physical to exchange. Let me give you an example to help you better understand what I'm saying:
Let's assume trust fund numbers "go negative."
This is good, because it means beneficiaries are receiving benefits.
The US govt is literally crediting accounts with numbers.
"LOOK, WE THE GOVT WILL NOW TYPE AND ADD $2000 TO BILLY'S ACCOUNT!"
They're not using collected taxes to do this.
Read FDR'S own words:

“I guess you're right on the economics, but those taxes were never a problem of economics. They are politics all the way through. We put those payroll contributions there so as to give the contributors a legal, moral, and political right to collect their pensions and their unemployment benefits. With those taxes in there, no damn politician can ever scrap my social security program.”

Step back...
Federal Taxes are paid via electronic transfer.
Some building somewhere is holding printed Cash.
The cash equal to the amount paid electronically is burned.
When was that money printed?
BEFORE the Fed had the totals to know how much to burn?
AFTER the Fed had the totals to know how much to burn?

 

[Indeependent]

You are insisting that Federal Taxes are not utilized at all.

Let's look at FICA. FICA doesn't "fund" social security. The dollars are withheld from workers paychecks, the amount paid is recorded on a spreadsheet, and the dollars are destroyed. This spreadsheet? The 'trust fund.' The supposed "warehouse" is nothing more then a bunch of recorded numbers.

But there are NO dollars delivered anywhere.
You are saying that money is printed at the mint and destroyed and kept virtually?
Why have the intermediary printing phase?

Good luck bud. This one's got one of the dumbest ideas about what money is you've ever seen. It's certainly the dumbest I've ever seen.

Something has happened to us over the last couple of years because we're agreeing with each other way too often.

Notice how you fail to refute anything I've said.

I'm not interested in refuting you, I'm interested in auditing the process to understand HOW and WHY you believe it's happening.

 

[Dovahkiin]

Not sure what this has to do with my post you've quoted.

You are insisting that Federal Taxes are not utilized at all.

Let's look at FICA. FICA doesn't "fund" social security. The dollars are withheld from workers paychecks, the amount paid is recorded on a spreadsheet, and the dollars are destroyed. This spreadsheet? The 'trust fund.' The supposed "warehouse" is nothing more then a bunch of recorded numbers.

But there are NO dollars delivered anywhere.
You are saying that money is printed at the mint and destroyed and kept virtually?
Why have the intermediary printing phase?

What makes you think any money is printed at the mint to fund social security? Money is only printed because we want something physical to exchange. Let me give you an example to help you better understand what I'm saying:
Let's assume trust fund numbers "go negative."
This is good, because it means beneficiaries are receiving benefits.
The US govt is literally crediting accounts with numbers.
"LOOK, WE THE GOVT WILL NOW TYPE AND ADD $2000 TO BILLY'S ACCOUNT!"
They're not using collected taxes to do this.
Read FDR'S own words:

“I guess you're right on the economics, but those taxes were never a problem of economics. They are politics all the way through. We put those payroll contributions there so as to give the contributors a legal, moral, and political right to collect their pensions and their unemployment benefits. With those taxes in there, no damn politician can ever scrap my social security program.”

Step back...
Federal Taxes are paid via electronic transfer.
Some building somewhere is holding printed Cash.
The cash equal to the amount paid electronically is burned.
When was that money printed?
BEFORE the Fed had the totals to know how much to burn?
AFTER the Fed had the totals to know how much to burn?

Yes, some building is indeed holding printed cash. Do you actually believe the government goes to a building with printed cash and takes it to pay for things? Please. The government simply credits bank accounts with numbers.

 

[Dovahkiin]

Let's look at FICA. FICA doesn't "fund" social security. The dollars are withheld from workers paychecks, the amount paid is recorded on a spreadsheet, and the dollars are destroyed. This spreadsheet? The 'trust fund.' The supposed "warehouse" is nothing more then a bunch of recorded numbers.

But there are NO dollars delivered anywhere.
You are saying that money is printed at the mint and destroyed and kept virtually?
Why have the intermediary printing phase?

Good luck bud. This one's got one of the dumbest ideas about what money is you've ever seen. It's certainly the dumbest I've ever seen.

Something has happened to us over the last couple of years because we're agreeing with each other way too often.

Notice how you fail to refute anything I've said.

I'm not interested in refuting you, I'm interested in auditing the process to understand HOW and WHY you believe it's happening.

It's common sense: Show me evidence that the federal government is using federal tax revenue to fund things.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: The government spends by crediting accounts with numbers, they don't need to go to a warehouse and get printed cash to spend.

 

[Indeependent]

You are insisting that Federal Taxes are not utilized at all.

Let's look at FICA. FICA doesn't "fund" social security. The dollars are withheld from workers paychecks, the amount paid is recorded on a spreadsheet, and the dollars are destroyed. This spreadsheet? The 'trust fund.' The supposed "warehouse" is nothing more then a bunch of recorded numbers.

But there are NO dollars delivered anywhere.
You are saying that money is printed at the mint and destroyed and kept virtually?
Why have the intermediary printing phase?

What makes you think any money is printed at the mint to fund social security? Money is only printed because we want something physical to exchange. Let me give you an example to help you better understand what I'm saying:
Let's assume trust fund numbers "go negative."
This is good, because it means beneficiaries are receiving benefits.
The US govt is literally crediting accounts with numbers.
"LOOK, WE THE GOVT WILL NOW TYPE AND ADD $2000 TO BILLY'S ACCOUNT!"
They're not using collected taxes to do this.
Read FDR'S own words:

“I guess you're right on the economics, but those taxes were never a problem of economics. They are politics all the way through. We put those payroll contributions there so as to give the contributors a legal, moral, and political right to collect their pensions and their unemployment benefits. With those taxes in there, no damn politician can ever scrap my social security program.”

Step back...
Federal Taxes are paid via electronic transfer.
Some building somewhere is holding printed Cash.
The cash equal to the amount paid electronically is burned.
When was that money printed?
BEFORE the Fed had the totals to know how much to burn?
AFTER the Fed had the totals to know how much to burn?

Yes, some building is indeed holding printed cash. Do you actually believe the government goes to a building with printed cash and takes it to pay for things? Please. The government simply credits bank accounts with numbers.

Why is it necessary to burn the cash?
Why not simply print the cash necessary to go out the bank branched and ATM machines?

 

[Dovahkiin]

Let's look at FICA. FICA doesn't "fund" social security. The dollars are withheld from workers paychecks, the amount paid is recorded on a spreadsheet, and the dollars are destroyed. This spreadsheet? The 'trust fund.' The supposed "warehouse" is nothing more then a bunch of recorded numbers.

But there are NO dollars delivered anywhere.
You are saying that money is printed at the mint and destroyed and kept virtually?
Why have the intermediary printing phase?

What makes you think any money is printed at the mint to fund social security? Money is only printed because we want something physical to exchange. Let me give you an example to help you better understand what I'm saying:
Let's assume trust fund numbers "go negative."
This is good, because it means beneficiaries are receiving benefits.
The US govt is literally crediting accounts with numbers.
"LOOK, WE THE GOVT WILL NOW TYPE AND ADD $2000 TO BILLY'S ACCOUNT!"
They're not using collected taxes to do this.
Read FDR'S own words:

“I guess you're right on the economics, but those taxes were never a problem of economics. They are politics all the way through. We put those payroll contributions there so as to give the contributors a legal, moral, and political right to collect their pensions and their unemployment benefits. With those taxes in there, no damn politician can ever scrap my social security program.”

Step back...
Federal Taxes are paid via electronic transfer.
Some building somewhere is holding printed Cash.
The cash equal to the amount paid electronically is burned.
When was that money printed?
BEFORE the Fed had the totals to know how much to burn?
AFTER the Fed had the totals to know how much to burn?

Yes, some building is indeed holding printed cash. Do you actually believe the government goes to a building with printed cash and takes it to pay for things? Please. The government simply credits bank accounts with numbers.

Why is it necessary to burn the cash?
Why not simply print the cash necessary to go out the bank branched and ATM machines?

What makes you think they're burning all of the cash? I've never said this.

 

[Indeependent]

But there are NO dollars delivered anywhere.
You are saying that money is printed at the mint and destroyed and kept virtually?
Why have the intermediary printing phase?

Good luck bud. This one's got one of the dumbest ideas about what money is you've ever seen. It's certainly the dumbest I've ever seen.

Something has happened to us over the last couple of years because we're agreeing with each other way too often.

Notice how you fail to refute anything I've said.

I'm not interested in refuting you, I'm interested in auditing the process to understand HOW and WHY you believe it's happening.

It's common sense: Show me evidence that the federal government is using federal tax revenue to fund things.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: The government spends by crediting accounts with numbers, they don't need to go to a warehouse and get printed cash to spend.

That's quite logical.
It's the printing of excess cash I'm lost on.
Is there some auditing process where this cash has to exist before it's burned.
If so, who does the auditing and why is there no follow up audit?

 

[Indeependent]

But there are NO dollars delivered anywhere.
You are saying that money is printed at the mint and destroyed and kept virtually?
Why have the intermediary printing phase?

What makes you think any money is printed at the mint to fund social security? Money is only printed because we want something physical to exchange. Let me give you an example to help you better understand what I'm saying:
Let's assume trust fund numbers "go negative."
This is good, because it means beneficiaries are receiving benefits.
The US govt is literally crediting accounts with numbers.
"LOOK, WE THE GOVT WILL NOW TYPE AND ADD $2000 TO BILLY'S ACCOUNT!"
They're not using collected taxes to do this.
Read FDR'S own words:

“I guess you're right on the economics, but those taxes were never a problem of economics. They are politics all the way through. We put those payroll contributions there so as to give the contributors a legal, moral, and political right to collect their pensions and their unemployment benefits. With those taxes in there, no damn politician can ever scrap my social security program.”

Step back...
Federal Taxes are paid via electronic transfer.
Some building somewhere is holding printed Cash.
The cash equal to the amount paid electronically is burned.
When was that money printed?
BEFORE the Fed had the totals to know how much to burn?
AFTER the Fed had the totals to know how much to burn?

Yes, some building is indeed holding printed cash. Do you actually believe the government goes to a building with printed cash and takes it to pay for things? Please. The government simply credits bank accounts with numbers.

Why is it necessary to burn the cash?
Why not simply print the cash necessary to go out the bank branched and ATM machines?

What makes you think they're burning all of the cash? I've never said this.

I admit you're confusing me.
You stated that cash is printed to match the Federal Tax total.
You stated this amount of cash is then burned?
If not burned, what happens to it from preventing it from being circulated?

 

[Dovahkiin]

Good luck bud. This one's got one of the dumbest ideas about what money is you've ever seen. It's certainly the dumbest I've ever seen.

Something has happened to us over the last couple of years because we're agreeing with each other way too often.

Notice how you fail to refute anything I've said.

I'm not interested in refuting you, I'm interested in auditing the process to understand HOW and WHY you believe it's happening.

It's common sense: Show me evidence that the federal government is using federal tax revenue to fund things.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: The government spends by crediting accounts with numbers, they don't need to go to a warehouse and get printed cash to spend.

That's quite logical.
It's the printing of excess cash I'm lost on.
Is there some auditing process where this cash has to exist before it's burned.
If so, who does the auditing and why is there no follow up audit?

Before we continue, I assume you're referring to physical bills when you say cash?
Simple, because we the people want them.

 

[Indeependent]

Something has happened to us over the last couple of years because we're agreeing with each other way too often.

Notice how you fail to refute anything I've said.

I'm not interested in refuting you, I'm interested in auditing the process to understand HOW and WHY you believe it's happening.

It's common sense: Show me evidence that the federal government is using federal tax revenue to fund things.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: The government spends by crediting accounts with numbers, they don't need to go to a warehouse and get printed cash to spend.

That's quite logical.
It's the printing of excess cash I'm lost on.
Is there some auditing process where this cash has to exist before it's burned.
If so, who does the auditing and why is there no follow up audit?

Before we continue, I assume you're referring to physical bills when you say cash?
Simple, because we the people want them.

Yes, I am referring to physical bills.
We want physical bills to be printed but they never see the light of day?

 

[Dovahkiin]

What makes you think any money is printed at the mint to fund social security? Money is only printed because we want something physical to exchange. Let me give you an example to help you better understand what I'm saying:
Let's assume trust fund numbers "go negative."
This is good, because it means beneficiaries are receiving benefits.
The US govt is literally crediting accounts with numbers.
"LOOK, WE THE GOVT WILL NOW TYPE AND ADD $2000 TO BILLY'S ACCOUNT!"
They're not using collected taxes to do this.
Read FDR'S own words:

Step back...
Federal Taxes are paid via electronic transfer.
Some building somewhere is holding printed Cash.
The cash equal to the amount paid electronically is burned.
When was that money printed?
BEFORE the Fed had the totals to know how much to burn?
AFTER the Fed had the totals to know how much to burn?

Yes, some building is indeed holding printed cash. Do you actually believe the government goes to a building with printed cash and takes it to pay for things? Please. The government simply credits bank accounts with numbers.

Why is it necessary to burn the cash?
Why not simply print the cash necessary to go out the bank branched and ATM machines?

What makes you think they're burning all of the cash? I've never said this.

I admit you're confusing me.
You stated that cash is printed to match the Federal Tax total.
You stated this amount of cash is then burned?
If not burned, what happens to it from preventing it from being circulated?

If you count "printing" as adding numbers to bank accounts...
I never said "cash is burned" in amounts equal to the tax total.
Look, here is my point: Federal tax revenue doesn't actually "fund" anything.

 

[Indeependent]

Step back...
Federal Taxes are paid via electronic transfer.
Some building somewhere is holding printed Cash.
The cash equal to the amount paid electronically is burned.
When was that money printed?
BEFORE the Fed had the totals to know how much to burn?
AFTER the Fed had the totals to know how much to burn?

Yes, some building is indeed holding printed cash. Do you actually believe the government goes to a building with printed cash and takes it to pay for things? Please. The government simply credits bank accounts with numbers.

Why is it necessary to burn the cash?
Why not simply print the cash necessary to go out the bank branched and ATM machines?

What makes you think they're burning all of the cash? I've never said this.

I admit you're confusing me.
You stated that cash is printed to match the Federal Tax total.
You stated this amount of cash is then burned?
If not burned, what happens to it from preventing it from being circulated?

If you count "printing" as adding numbers to bank accounts...
I never said "cash is burned" in amounts equal to the tax total.
Look, here is my point: Federal tax revenue doesn't actually "fund" anything.

I can actually believe that Federal Tax Dollars are nothing more than data.
I can actually believe that this data is transferred to various entities.
I can actually believe that physical bills need not be printed.
And so?

 

[Dovahkiin]

Notice how you fail to refute anything I've said.

I'm not interested in refuting you, I'm interested in auditing the process to understand HOW and WHY you believe it's happening.

It's common sense: Show me evidence that the federal government is using federal tax revenue to fund things.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: The government spends by crediting accounts with numbers, they don't need to go to a warehouse and get printed cash to spend.

That's quite logical.
It's the printing of excess cash I'm lost on.
Is there some auditing process where this cash has to exist before it's burned.
If so, who does the auditing and why is there no follow up audit?

Before we continue, I assume you're referring to physical bills when you say cash?
Simple, because we the people want them.

Yes, I am referring to physical bills.
We want physical bills to be printed but they never see the light of day?

They do see the light of day though.
The government doesn't need physical bills to add numbers to accounts..
Let's take, for example, a $100 dollar bill. People withdraw this physical bill from a bank and the numbers in their balance are reduced by 100. The $100 bill is simply a paper withdrawal slip. The us govt doesn't "print money" when it wants to spend. We the people want something physical to exchange.

 

[Dovahkiin]

Yes, some building is indeed holding printed cash. Do you actually believe the government goes to a building with printed cash and takes it to pay for things? Please. The government simply credits bank accounts with numbers.

Why is it necessary to burn the cash?
Why not simply print the cash necessary to go out the bank branched and ATM machines?

What makes you think they're burning all of the cash? I've never said this.

I admit you're confusing me.
You stated that cash is printed to match the Federal Tax total.
You stated this amount of cash is then burned?
If not burned, what happens to it from preventing it from being circulated?

If you count "printing" as adding numbers to bank accounts...
I never said "cash is burned" in amounts equal to the tax total.
Look, here is my point: Federal tax revenue doesn't actually "fund" anything.

I can actually believe that Federal Tax Dollars are nothing more than data.
I can actually believe that this data is transferred to various entities.
I can actually believe that physical bills need not be printed.
And so?

You should be able to see my view, and the view of others, on taxes at this point if you recognize all of the above.

 

[Indeependent]

I'm not interested in refuting you, I'm interested in auditing the process to understand HOW and WHY you believe it's happening.

It's common sense: Show me evidence that the federal government is using federal tax revenue to fund things.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: The government spends by crediting accounts with numbers, they don't need to go to a warehouse and get printed cash to spend.

That's quite logical.
It's the printing of excess cash I'm lost on.
Is there some auditing process where this cash has to exist before it's burned.
If so, who does the auditing and why is there no follow up audit?

Before we continue, I assume you're referring to physical bills when you say cash?
Simple, because we the people want them.

Yes, I am referring to physical bills.
We want physical bills to be printed but they never see the light of day?

They do see the light of day though.
The government doesn't need physical bills to add numbers to accounts..
Let's take, for example, a $100 dollar bill. People withdraw this physical bill from a bank and the numbers in their balance are reduced by 100. The $100 bill is simply a paper withdrawal slip. The us govt doesn't "print money" when it wants to spend. We the people want something physical to exchange.

I am of the opinion that physical currency is quickly going the way of the dinosaur.

 

[Dovahkiin]

It's common sense: Show me evidence that the federal government is using federal tax revenue to fund things.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: The government spends by crediting accounts with numbers, they don't need to go to a warehouse and get printed cash to spend.

That's quite logical.
It's the printing of excess cash I'm lost on.
Is there some auditing process where this cash has to exist before it's burned.
If so, who does the auditing and why is there no follow up audit?

Before we continue, I assume you're referring to physical bills when you say cash?
Simple, because we the people want them.

Yes, I am referring to physical bills.
We want physical bills to be printed but they never see the light of day?

They do see the light of day though.
The government doesn't need physical bills to add numbers to accounts..
Let's take, for example, a $100 dollar bill. People withdraw this physical bill from a bank and the numbers in their balance are reduced by 100. The $100 bill is simply a paper withdrawal slip. The us govt doesn't "print money" when it wants to spend. We the people want something physical to exchange.

I am of the opinion that physical currency is quickly going the way of the dinosaur.

I agree. But here's what physical currency really is: Pieces of paper representing numbers called "US dollars" that were already issued by the govt, because we the people want numbers in the form of withdrawal slips with numbers on them.

 

[Indeependent]

Why is it necessary to burn the cash?
Why not simply print the cash necessary to go out the bank branched and ATM machines?

What makes you think they're burning all of the cash? I've never said this.

I admit you're confusing me.
You stated that cash is printed to match the Federal Tax total.
You stated this amount of cash is then burned?
If not burned, what happens to it from preventing it from being circulated?

If you count "printing" as adding numbers to bank accounts...
I never said "cash is burned" in amounts equal to the tax total.
Look, here is my point: Federal tax revenue doesn't actually "fund" anything.

I can actually believe that Federal Tax Dollars are nothing more than data.
I can actually believe that this data is transferred to various entities.
I can actually believe that physical bills need not be printed.
And so?

You should be able to see my view, and the view of others, on taxes at this point if you recognize all of the above.

So Taxes are nothing more than data being transferred from one entity to another.
How does that result in data not being transferred electronically to make Federal payments.
I have Direct Deposit and have Zero need to use Physical currency.

 

[Indeependent]

That's quite logical.
It's the printing of excess cash I'm lost on.
Is there some auditing process where this cash has to exist before it's burned.
If so, who does the auditing and why is there no follow up audit?

Before we continue, I assume you're referring to physical bills when you say cash?
Simple, because we the people want them.

Yes, I am referring to physical bills.
We want physical bills to be printed but they never see the light of day?

They do see the light of day though.
The government doesn't need physical bills to add numbers to accounts..
Let's take, for example, a $100 dollar bill. People withdraw this physical bill from a bank and the numbers in their balance are reduced by 100. The $100 bill is simply a paper withdrawal slip. The us govt doesn't "print money" when it wants to spend. We the people want something physical to exchange.

I am of the opinion that physical currency is quickly going the way of the dinosaur.

I agree. But here's what physical currency really is: Pieces of paper representing numbers called "US dollars" that were already issued by the govt, because we the people want numbers in the form of withdrawal slips with numbers on them.

I see no problem with that.
As a New Yorker I can tell you that fewer people want to hold physical money.
Apps are doing a great job of managing assets.

 

[Dovahkiin]

What makes you think they're burning all of the cash? I've never said this.

I admit you're confusing me.
You stated that cash is printed to match the Federal Tax total.
You stated this amount of cash is then burned?
If not burned, what happens to it from preventing it from being circulated?

If you count "printing" as adding numbers to bank accounts...
I never said "cash is burned" in amounts equal to the tax total.
Look, here is my point: Federal tax revenue doesn't actually "fund" anything.

I can actually believe that Federal Tax Dollars are nothing more than data.
I can actually believe that this data is transferred to various entities.
I can actually believe that physical bills need not be printed.
And so?

You should be able to see my view, and the view of others, on taxes at this point if you recognize all of the above.

So Taxes are nothing more than data being transferred from one entity to another.
How does that result in data not being transferred electronically to make Federal payments.
I have Direct Deposit and have Zero need to use Physical currency.

The government subtracts then they tax, do you believe they actually subtract it to add it to another account?
Look back to my FICA example.

 

[Moonglow]

Who is John Galt and why is he allowing Federal Taxes to go to Private Vendors who supply our Military with lots of stuff from pencils to chairs to cheese to jets.

What makes you think your federal taxes are directly going to the vendors?

I don't believe for a second they're being tossed into a furnace.
Plus, our taxes are paid virtually by computer, NOT by mailing in an envelope stuffed with cash.

Cuts down on printing cost...