Affirmative action, helpful or harmful?

It's not and I'm totally against it, but little I can do about it either.

It's not that I mind paying my "fair share" but in our state, you are taxed by your property value and not usage of the education system. In other words I may be paying twice as much into the school system as my neighbor down the street with four kids in the system. I don't see the equity in it and it's totally unfair.

But yes, I opted not to have a family because of the cost. I invested my money instead, and while I'm just a working blue collar guy, I have my apartments that I take care of after work and on weekends. It will be of great value to me when I retire in a couple of years or if I am forced to go on disability.
Look at it this way

You used the educational system when you grew up and are now paying back the education you received

So why should I pay three fold of what somebody else paid for me? And no, most of my education was in a private Catholic school where the church parishioners footed the bill.

Your parents and your own choices

My choices? Do you think I have a choice in where my property tax goes?
Tax code is written to reward those who have children

You choose to ignore those tax advantages

And how do I take those advantages? Having children I do not want?

The tax code was written to take from some to give to others.

When you rob Peter to pay Paul, the Paul's of your society generally have no objection.
 
AA is helpful to white women. Historically it has been very helpful to white men.
Helpful to white men, how ? By ruining their chances to get ahead ? Don't talk stupid.

As for white women, much more of them are hurt by AA, who are daughters, wives, etc of discriminated against white men.
 
"I'm fine with affirmative action. We've lived with it for a long time. And I lived with it for a long time. And I've had great relationships with lots of people. So I'm fine with it." - Donald J. Trump

Donald Trump on ‘Meet the Press’
That's an old (2015) link. In more up to date news >> The Trump Justice Department is starting to make moves to roll back affirmative action, pursuing "investigations and possible litigation related to intentional race-based discrimination in college and university admissions." (NYT) In other words, they intend to investigate and sue colleges that they believe discriminate against white applicants.

Trump’s Affirmative-Action Rollback: A Promise Kept
 
Aren't we at a point in history when companies and corporations can be trusted to hire the best people for the job without regard for skin color? An interesting observation is that mainstream commercials seem to be showing interracial couples more frequently these days. Isn't that an indication that the race wars are over? The point is that we've had our little flirtation with racial payback. Now it's time to follow the Constitutional law and treat everyone equally regardless of race, not because of it.
 
I've lost at least two job opportunities to AA, so ..... no, not much "help".
I've lost 2000 (over 50 years) Also lost business loans, job promotions, and college financial aid. Summed up, I've had my economic life ruined, and was only saved by my starting my own business, and building it up. They couldn't discriminate against me there (except in the business loan part)
 
AA is very harmful and racist. It's harmful in that it takes away motivation and the struggle to succeed that everyone should go through in life to build character and integrity. Another liberal failure.

Wrong. Before you post again, go study American history.
Yet, you can't explain why I'm wrong. I lived American history .
 
'Affirmative action' (dumb name) was certainly necessary at a time. The American system had failed for significant numbers of people and something had to be done. If 'America' had functioned as we dreamed it would, this (and forced desegregation, for another example) would never have been needed. Continuing affirmative action should be thoroughly examined and debated. There are indications that such a program today is counter-productive if too rigidly applied.
The point is, it is RACIST, when racially applied.

AA could be a positive thing though, if it were done on a basis of economic class (financial need). Then you wouldn't have wealthy blacks getting preferences$$, while poor whites are shoved aside. And ALL poor folks would get help.

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AA has been successful on two fronts, it helped the non-status quo get an equal opportunity where implemented, and it also gave the underperforming white males something to blame their failure on.
 
AA has been successful on two fronts, it helped the non-status quo get an equal opportunity where implemented, and it also gave the underperforming white males something to blame their failure on.

When somebody tells you that you didn't get the job or promotion because you are white, how is that the white persons failure?
 
AA has been successful on two fronts, it helped the non-status quo get an equal opportunity where implemented, and it also gave the underperforming white males something to blame their failure on.
That's a contradiction. If they got AA, it was NOT equal.
 
Chances are you were. The problem for you was that they were qualified enough and met the criteria of being a woman or a non white male person.
Or a partial Hispanic person (me), who has too much pride and dignity to lower himself to the level of wild dogs, by receiving AA. I've never filled out an AA questionairre in 50 years, I'm proud to say.
 
You call it discrimination. If it was truly to get rid of the white head start I would term it leveling the playing field.
Insincere, evasive, disingenuous, hypocritical, fake, pretentious, shifty DENIAL at its worst.

And the playing field as you call it, could be leveled better, by an AA based on financial need, rather than skin color, which can allow wealthy blacks to get favors ahead of poor whites.
 
WE have AA to try to equalize the institutionalized racism (aka white affirmative action ) in this country .

Want an example ? Just look at President Trump! Hiring his white freinds and family .

Is there one of you that would even dare to say Jared Kushner is the most qualified for his position? This is the stuff that happens at all levels of employment .
 
Re: the question in the thread title

IMHO:

YES, it has been helpful to millions of people of color, women, etc. because those groups have gotten jobs that they otherwise would never have gotten.

YES, it has been harmful to an unknown number of people because many unqualified people have gotten those jobs.

When I (or a loved one) need medical help, I want the most competent person possible. If ALL the most competent medical people are from Mars, then it's fine if the whole staff is Martian. When it comes to something like medicine, to hell with affirmative action.

If we have to have affirmative action to make people happy, then at least restrict it to occupations where they cannot cause too much mischief.
A great many of society's problems, in many occupations, come from unqualified AA incompetents, holding jobs they aren't capable of doing.
 

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