Affordable Care Act: A Child's Garden Of Lies And Distortions

[RDD_1210]

Nice theory, but in practical application. 40% of those on medicare and medicaid are having extreme difficulties in finding providers. This is projected to get much worse. Democrats will have a sudden shock at how many will openly defy it, but even to a greater extent the shock that the cost of subsiding these people is higher then even the CBO currently projects.

Can you please provide your sources. Thanks!

And what I say is not a "theory", people with insurance have been covering the uninsured for years which is driving up costs for everyone.

That's of course not strictly true. People who don't make claims on their health insurance subsidize people who do. But first that is the nature of insurance, and second insurance is a voluntary contract. At least it was until O-care.
It is well known and has been posted multiple times that Medicare/Medicaid recipients have trouble finding doctors because reimbursements are below market rates. This is part of what drives up medical costs, btw as the rest of us have to subsidize Medicare patients.

None of what you says has anything to do with or discredits what I said and the fact that the insured have been picking up the costs of the uninsured for years now.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Forcing someone to sign a contract does not stand up in court. This is what Ocare does. It forces everyone to sign a contract.

So, you must have already seen that Contract....to be convinced of that....right?

Let's see it.​

It's a mandate that says that if you don't enter into a contract with a health insurance company you will be fined or sentenced to jail time. That's unconstitutional. It's not hard to understand.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Forcing someone to sign a contract does not stand up in court. This is what Ocare does. It forces everyone to sign a contract. That's illegal according to the constitution.

Well you're forced to pay taxes and thats not illegal so what gives? The same with selective service when a male turns 18 years old, they must register or receive no benefits.

No, it's not illegal because it refers to taxes and not mandates. It's the sixteenth amendment in reference to Article 1, Section 2, Clause 3: direct taxes shall be apportioned among the several states which may be included within this union.

 

[The Rabbi]

Can you please provide your sources. Thanks!

And what I say is not a "theory", people with insurance have been covering the uninsured for years which is driving up costs for everyone.

That's of course not strictly true. People who don't make claims on their health insurance subsidize people who do. But first that is the nature of insurance, and second insurance is a voluntary contract. At least it was until O-care.
It is well known and has been posted multiple times that Medicare/Medicaid recipients have trouble finding doctors because reimbursements are below market rates. This is part of what drives up medical costs, btw as the rest of us have to subsidize Medicare patients.

None of what you says has anything to do with or discredits what I said and the fact that the insured have been picking up the costs of the uninsured for years now.

The fact that I refuted what you said has nothing to do with what you said or discredits it?
In your mind, BoBo

 

[Skull Pilot]

Aside from if the act is right or wrong,

The requirement that everyone needs to buy it doesn't eliminate the need for insurance companies to compete. That makes zero sense. People still have to choose which insurance company on the open market, price will be a deciding factor.

No it won't.

I used to live in Assachusetts when they didn't allow out of state auto insurance companies to compete in the market. You could call 10 different companies and their rates were all virtually identical.

no state allows "out of state" auto insurance companies to compete in their market. if you have to be licensed to do business within the state in the first place. hence why rates vary from state to state. although i can buy All State, Farmers, State Farm and just about any other car insurance in all 50 states since each state has allowed them to do so.

Nice Fail.

When I Lived in Assachusetts there was only a handful of auto insurance companies and there was no competition as rtaes were highly reglated resulting in some of the highest premiums in the nation. Exactly the same thing that is happening to health insurance premiums btw.

Once more companies started selling insurance rates dropped.

Massachusetts auto insurance deregulation brought variety, lower prices, National Association of Insurance Commissioners says | masslive.com

 

[Syphon]

No it won't.

I used to live in Assachusetts when they didn't allow out of state auto insurance companies to compete in the market. You could call 10 different companies and their rates were all virtually identical.

no state allows "out of state" auto insurance companies to compete in their market. if you have to be licensed to do business within the state in the first place. hence why rates vary from state to state. although i can buy All State, Farmers, State Farm and just about any other car insurance in all 50 states since each state has allowed them to do so.

Nice Fail.

When I Lived in Assachusetts there was only a handful of auto insurance companies and there was no competition as rtaes were highly reglated resulting in some of the highest premiums in the nation. Exactly the same thing that is happening to health insurance premiums btw.

Once more companies started selling insurance rates dropped.

Massachusetts auto insurance deregulation brought variety, lower prices, National Association of Insurance Commissioners says | masslive.com

because thats what your "state" allowed. all auto insurance is run through the state commissioners office. so your mad at the fed why?

once the state deregulated its insurance markets exact words of your article btw

 

[RDD_1210]

That's of course not strictly true. People who don't make claims on their health insurance subsidize people who do. But first that is the nature of insurance, and second insurance is a voluntary contract. At least it was until O-care.
It is well known and has been posted multiple times that Medicare/Medicaid recipients have trouble finding doctors because reimbursements are below market rates. This is part of what drives up medical costs, btw as the rest of us have to subsidize Medicare patients.

None of what you says has anything to do with or discredits what I said and the fact that the insured have been picking up the costs of the uninsured for years now.

The fact that I refuted what you said has nothing to do with what you said or discredits it?
In your mind, BoBo

Again, you're off in your own world. What did you refute? You didn't even address what I said. LOL, nevermind. I don't care about anything you have to say anyway.

 

[The Rabbi]

Do you know wtf you're even arguing about?

 

[The Rabbi]

None of what you says has anything to do with or discredits what I said and the fact that the insured have been picking up the costs of the uninsured for years now.

The fact that I refuted what you said has nothing to do with what you said or discredits it?
In your mind, BoBo

Again, you're off in your own world. What did you refute? You didn't even address what I said. LOL, nevermind. I don't care about anything you have to say anyway.

Pointing out you are wrong is not addressing what you said?
Are you on drugs?

 

[Wry Catcher]

Four pages and growing of 'debate' generally limited to "ain't it awful" + name calling and a herd of non lawyers and non Constitutional Scholars pretending they know the truth of what is and what is not constitutional. What a fucking waste of time. I learned in these four pages that the usual idiots parrot phrases from dubious authorities and only a few offer actual evidence in support of their argument.

Doesn't anyone have an opinion on what form of health care would be best?

I do. In a nutshell I believe:

All American citizens should be covered under an expanded Medicare Program which covers preventative care and emergency treatment by private sector doctors, clinics, hospitals, etc. Payments to such providers to be determined by regional costs annually determined; co-pays to be determined by each individual provider.

In each Congressional District a Health Center would be build to provide at no cost to all citizen inoculations and education on STD's, contraceptives, medication for chronic disease including diabetes and heart conditions and treatment for minor injury's and illness (Cost-benefit keeping Emergency rooms at hospitals costs down, saving dollars for private, non profit and public hospitals and reducing the cost of private insurance to consumers).

100 Federal Hospitals would be built (one for each senator) each to include a teaching environment for any student who wishes to become a Doctor, Nurse or technician (in a medical specialty) at low or no cost, and the payment for such an education to be worked off in a health center or public hospital.

(each clinic and hospital to be named after the member of Congress who was in office when such an act was passed - since nothing will happen one needs to consider the greed and egos of those elected to Congress).

I have more ideas, but I've been accused of being Don Quixote and having Impossible Dreams (one of the nicer add hominems I must admit)

I would assume you envision federal tax dollars would pay for your plan.

Does your plan include the provisions for an individual to opt out if they don't want to be treated in one of your socialist facilities?

If one can opt out does on get a break on their taxes?

And you forgot to mention free baby-killing in your plan. I'm sure it would be part of it.

I would assume you're a social conservative and a Christian. First, answer this: What would Jesus do?

That said, and I'm sure my question will remain unanswered, I'll answer your questions.

Federal tax dollars would fund the health centers in each congressional district. Payroll taxes - as they do now - would support the expansion of Medicare. Consider, if you will, the savings preventative health care will mean - savings to Medicare, savings to public hospitals, savings to private insurance and savings in lives and human misery.

I would also remove Marijuana from Schedule I and allow each state to determine its legality. Those states which decided to decriminalize and regulate it would pay a surtax added to the grower/producer, retailer and end user purchasing MJ. Such surtax would be dedicated to the costs of universal preventative health care for all Americans.

This is of course assuming such a plan if implemented would be sold on an open market regulated by the state as is alcohol. Of course is could be sold by state stores where is would be less likely sold to minors and habitual users.

Consider too the multi-billion dollar black market in MJ, and how the enforcement costs effect local government budgets. There is devil in the details of this issue too, but time and space limit how much I can post and expect to be read.

As for abortion, providing free contraception and education will likely reduce the number of unwanted pregnancy and therefore abortions which are legal. Abortions might be determined to be an elective procedure, like I envision cosmetic surgery would be. Again, the devil is in the details.

 

[The Rabbi]

My guess as to what Jesus would do is as good as anyone's.
I doubt he would have invited the Roman authorities to come in and take control. So he would have encouraged his disciples to form voluntary associations to assist the poor meet expenses.
Next question:
Have you counted on the explosion of costs as more and more people take advantage of "free" health care, necessitating higher and higher payroll taxes?
This is the experience with every payroll tax deduction. Medicare itself started off at .35%. Now it is up to 1.65%.

 

[Wry Catcher]

My guess as to what Jesus would do is as good as anyone's.
I doubt he would have invited the Roman authorities to come in and take control. So he would have encouraged his disciples to form voluntary associations to assist the poor meet expenses.
Next question:
Have you counted on the explosion of costs as more and more people take advantage of "free" health care, necessitating higher and higher payroll taxes?
This is the experience with every payroll tax deduction. Medicare itself started off at .35%. Now it is up to 1.65%.

On your "Next question". I have considered the cost of free PREVENTATIVE health care. And I make the judgment that 'free' education, inoculations, contraceptives and periodic physical examinations from cradle to grave means less chronic illness (diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, obesity) and early detection (cancers, periodontal disease) will be less expensive to treat then when they are discovered after symptoms appear and the afflicted (and possibly uninsured) goes to an emergency room.

 

[The Rabbi]

My guess as to what Jesus would do is as good as anyone's.
I doubt he would have invited the Roman authorities to come in and take control. So he would have encouraged his disciples to form voluntary associations to assist the poor meet expenses.
Next question:
Have you counted on the explosion of costs as more and more people take advantage of "free" health care, necessitating higher and higher payroll taxes?
This is the experience with every payroll tax deduction. Medicare itself started off at .35%. Now it is up to 1.65%.

On your "Next question". I have considered the cost of free PREVENTATIVE health care. And I make the judgment that 'free' education, inoculations, contraceptives and periodic physical examinations from cradle to grave means less chronic illness (diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, obesity) and early detection (cancers, periodontal disease) will be less expensive to treat then when they are discovered after symptoms appear and the afflicted (and possibly uninsured) goes to an emergency room.

Can you show that preventative care actually reduces medical costs? I think the answer is no.

 

[RDD_1210]

The fact that I refuted what you said has nothing to do with what you said or discredits it?
In your mind, BoBo

Again, you're off in your own world. What did you refute? You didn't even address what I said. LOL, nevermind. I don't care about anything you have to say anyway.

Pointing out you are wrong is not addressing what you said?
Are you on drugs?

I have to remind myself that you think skin color has an affect on political leadership ability. </conversation over>

 

[The Rabbi]

Again, you're off in your own world. What did you refute? You didn't even address what I said. LOL, nevermind. I don't care about anything you have to say anyway.

Pointing out you are wrong is not addressing what you said?
Are you on drugs?

I have to remind myself that you think skin color has an affect on political leadership ability. </conversation over>

I have to remind myself you are an illiterate.

 

[RDD_1210]

Pointing out you are wrong is not addressing what you said?
Are you on drugs?

I have to remind myself that you think skin color has an affect on political leadership ability. </conversation over>

I have to remind myself you are an illiterate.

Rather be that than a racist.

 

[Wry Catcher]

My guess as to what Jesus would do is as good as anyone's.
I doubt he would have invited the Roman authorities to come in and take control. So he would have encouraged his disciples to form voluntary associations to assist the poor meet expenses.
Next question:
Have you counted on the explosion of costs as more and more people take advantage of "free" health care, necessitating higher and higher payroll taxes?
This is the experience with every payroll tax deduction. Medicare itself started off at .35%. Now it is up to 1.65%.

On your "Next question". I have considered the cost of free PREVENTATIVE health care. And I make the judgment that 'free' education, inoculations, contraceptives and periodic physical examinations from cradle to grave means less chronic illness (diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, obesity) and early detection (cancers, periodontal disease) will be less expensive to treat then when they are discovered after symptoms appear and the afflicted (and possibly uninsured) goes to an emergency room.

Can you show that preventative care actually reduces medical costs? I think the answer is no.

Are you serious? Do inoculations prevent disease? What do you think is the cost to treat one victim of preventable polio? Contraception prevents pregnancy. Listening to the heart and lungs, taking a patients temperature, blood pressure, etc and labs can lead to early detection and prevent future - sometimes cataclysmic - patient outcomes.

 

[LilOlLady]

99.9% of you village idiots don't have a clue how obamacare will help you.

 

[RDD_1210]

On your "Next question". I have considered the cost of free PREVENTATIVE health care. And I make the judgment that 'free' education, inoculations, contraceptives and periodic physical examinations from cradle to grave means less chronic illness (diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, obesity) and early detection (cancers, periodontal disease) will be less expensive to treat then when they are discovered after symptoms appear and the afflicted (and possibly uninsured) goes to an emergency room.

Can you show that preventative care actually reduces medical costs? I think the answer is no.

Are you serious? Do inoculations prevent disease? What do you think is the cost to treat one victim of preventable polio? Contraception prevents pregnancy. Listening to the heart and lungs, taking a patients temperature, blood pressure, etc and labs can lead to early detection and prevent future - sometimes cataclysmic - patient outcomes.

He will argue ANYTHING that goes against his party and narrow minded beliefs, ANYTHING. Save your energy.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Can you show that preventative care actually reduces medical costs? I think the answer is no.

Are you serious? Do inoculations prevent disease? What do you think is the cost to treat one victim of preventable polio? Contraception prevents pregnancy. Listening to the heart and lungs, taking a patients temperature, blood pressure, etc and labs can lead to early detection and prevent future - sometimes cataclysmic - patient outcomes.

He will argue ANYTHING that goes against his party and narrow minded beliefs, ANYTHING. Save your energy.

Isn't it amazing how the anti-Obama crowd has disappeared from this thread?

It happens everytime they are asked to defend their beliefs.