Al-Qaeda Chief Calls For Attacks On US

[Osomir]

I believe the area was more various types of pagan religion than either Christian or Jewish. ..

Depends on ones source.

 

[Osomir]

What is willfully dishonest is claiming that Qutb envisioned anything but a global Islamic state.

Who suggested otherwise? Are you making up arguments to speak out against now?

 

[Hollie]

I'm actually pointing out historical trends

Link?

Are you having difficulty finding those thriving non-Moslem religions in the islamist Middle East?

 

[Osomir]

Are you having difficulty finding those thriving non-Moslem religions in the islamist Middle East?

Are you having trouble supporting your argument with anything other than dishonest red herrings?

 

[Hollie]

What is willfully dishonest is claiming that Qutb envisioned anything but a global Islamic state.

Who suggested otherwise? Are you making up arguments to speak out against now?

Did you forget that it was your claim that Qutb offered some "reformed" version of Islam?

 

[Osomir]

Did you forget that it was your claim that Qutb offered some "reformed" version of Islam?

He did: Qutbism, which served as an ideological foundation for modern expressions of Islamic jihadism. If it was just "Islam as usual" as you are suggesting, then there would have been no historical need for people like Sayyid Qutb and we wouldn't be talking about him or any need for Osama bin Laden. You keep ignoring the need for terrorist organizations to have not only operational heads, but ideological heads.

 

[Hollie]

Are you having difficulty finding those thriving non-Moslem religions in the islamist Middle East?

Are you having trouble supporting your argument with anything other than dishonest red herrings?

So, shall I take that to mean you cannot find thriving non-Moslem religions in the islamist Middle East?

 

[Hollie]

Did you forget that it was your claim that Qutb offered some "reformed" version of Islam?

He did: Qutbism, which served as an ideological foundation for modern expressions of Islamic jihadism. If it was just "Islam as usual" as you are suggesting, then there would have been no historical need for people like Sayyid Qutb and we wouldn't be talking about him or any need for Osama bin Laden. You keep ignoring the need for terrorist organizations to have not only operational heads, but ideological heads.

There is no historical need for front-men for islamist ideology. The core ideology of Qutb mirrors the core ideology of Islam.

 

[Osomir]

So, shall I take that to mean you cannot find thriving non-Moslem religions in the islamist Middle East?

There are many such historical populations that we have seen over time. From the Nestorian Christian and Jews of Iraq, to the Coptic Christians in Egypt, to the Eastern Orthodox Catholics of Syria, to the Armenian Christians of the Northern Levant. Cordoba under Islamic rule was one of the most religiously diverse cities in all of Europe during the Medieval ages. Christians, Jews and Muslims lived side by side in the Middle East for well over a thousand years.

Not the best foundation for your current hypothesis though, which is why you seem to only want to focus on current geopolitical issues. Once again, not very honest, but I guess you're ok with that.

 

[Sunni Man]

So, shall I take that to mean you cannot find thriving non-Moslem religions in the islamist Middle East?

Egyptian Christians are generally known as Copts and account for about 5-20% of the population. Despite the small proportion of Christians within Egypt, Egypt's Christian population is the largest in terms of absolute numbers in the greater region of the Middle East and North Africa.

Christianity in Egypt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Osomir]

There is no historical need for front-men for islamist ideology.

Are you kidding me? Do you even know what the term "shia" means? It means "follower of" there used to be HUGE variations in schools of thought across the empires, it was because of such huge variations that the four main schools were formed in the first place and itjihad was closed. Sayyid Qutb re-opened it.

The core ideology of Qutb mirrors the core ideology of Islam.

Then why was Qutb ever even needed as an ideologue? Why was Osama bin Laden needed as an ideologue? Why do ANY terrorist groups need an ideological head instead of simply an operational head?

You still haven't answered any of those questions.

 

[Hollie]

There is no historical need for front-men for islamist ideology.

Are you kidding me? Do you even know what the term "shia" means? It means "follower of" there used to be HUGE variations in schools of thought across the empires, it was because of such huge variations that the four main schools were formed in the first place and itjihad was closed. Sayyid Qutb re-opened it.

The core ideology of Qutb mirrors the core ideology of Islam.

Then why was Qutb ever even needed as an ideologue? Why was Osama bin Laden needed as an ideologue? Why do ANY terrorist groups need an ideological head instead of simply an operational head?

You still haven't answered any of those questions.

"…the object of this religion is all humanity and its sphere of action is the whole earth."

--Sayyid Qutb, Paving the Way


And how is the above "reformed"?


How is the above any different from the religion that Islam's inventor scratched out.


You refuse to address that.

 

[Osomir]

There is no historical need for front-men for islamist ideology.

Are you kidding me? Do you even know what the term "shia" means? It means "follower of" there used to be HUGE variations in schools of thought across the empires, it was because of such huge variations that the four main schools were formed in the first place and itjihad was closed. Sayyid Qutb re-opened it.

The core ideology of Qutb mirrors the core ideology of Islam.

Then why was Qutb ever even needed as an ideologue? Why was Osama bin Laden needed as an ideologue? Why do ANY terrorist groups need an ideological head instead of simply an operational head?

You still haven't answered any of those questions.

"…the object of this religion is all humanity and its sphere of action is the whole earth."

--Sayyid Qutb, Paving the Way


And how is the above "reformed"?


How is the above any different from the religion that Islam's inventor scratched out.


You refuse to address that.

1.) You still didn't answer my question.

2.) Have you ever even read Milestones? Or are you just basing your understanding of Qutb and his philosophy on that one quote that you picked up somewhere?

3.) Qutb's teachings go a little deeper than that. Particularly in terms of legal justifications for waging war against entire "civilizations".

4.) Do you even know what Ijihad is?

 

[Hollie]

So, shall I take that to mean you cannot find thriving non-Moslem religions in the islamist Middle East?

There are many such historical populations that we have seen over time. From the Nestorian Christian and Jews of Iraq, to the Coptic Christians in Egypt, to the Eastern Orthodox Catholics of Syria, to the Armenian Christians of the Northern Levant. Cordoba under Islamic rule was one of the most religiously diverse cities in all of Europe during the Medieval ages. Christians, Jews and Muslims lived side by side in the Middle East for well over a thousand years.

Not the best foundation for your current hypothesis though, which is why you seem to only want to focus on current geopolitical issues. Once again, not very honest, but I guess you're ok with that.

Interesting you reference Islamic Spain.

Tell us about the status of the dhimmi. Odd how you ignore that dynamic.

Not very honest on your part.

 

[Osomir]

Interesting you reference Islamic Spain.

Tell us about the status of the dhimmi. Odd how you ignore that dynamic.

Not very honest on your part.

How is the existence of a protected religious class under Islamic law in any way counter to anything that I have been stating?

If anything the concept goes completely against what it is you are advocating and weakens your argument.

 

[Hollie]

Are you kidding me? Do you even know what the term "shia" means? It means "follower of" there used to be HUGE variations in schools of thought across the empires, it was because of such huge variations that the four main schools were formed in the first place and itjihad was closed. Sayyid Qutb re-opened it.



Then why was Qutb ever even needed as an ideologue? Why was Osama bin Laden needed as an ideologue? Why do ANY terrorist groups need an ideological head instead of simply an operational head?

You still haven't answered any of those questions.

"…the object of this religion is all humanity and its sphere of action is the whole earth."

--Sayyid Qutb, Paving the Way


And how is the above "reformed"?


How is the above any different from the religion that Islam's inventor scratched out.


You refuse to address that.

1.) You still didn't answer my question.

2.) Have you ever even read Milestones? Or are you just basing your understanding of Qutb and his philosophy on that one quote that you picked up somewhere?

3.) Qutb's teachings go a little deeper than that. Particularly in terms of legal justifications for waging war against entire "civilizations".

4.) Do you even know what Ijihad is?

1. What is "reformed" about Qutb ideology and classic Islamic ideology of a global Islamic state?

2. Do you know anything of jihad?

 

[Osomir]

1. What is "reformed" about Qutb ideology and classic Islamic ideology of a global Islamic state?

Reducing Qutb's ideological structures simply down to a singular and generalize notion of "global Islamic state" is pretty indicative that you haven't studied Qutbism much. Once again, have you even ever read Milestones?

2. Do you know anything of jihad?

Quite a bit. What would you like to discuss?

 

[Hollie]

Interesting you reference Islamic Spain.

Tell us about the status of the dhimmi. Odd how you ignore that dynamic.

Not very honest on your part.

How is the existence of a protected religious class under Islamic law in any way counter to anything that I have been stating?

If anything the concept goes completely against what it is you are advocating and weakens your argument.

You have made no mention of the dhimmi under Islamic law.

The weakness of your argument is in your inability to understand Islamic history and ideology.

 

[Osomir]

You have made no mention of the dhimmi under Islamic law.

The weakness of your argument is in your inability to understand Islamic history and ideology.

Once again, the existence of a protected class of people under Islamic rule doesn't support your argument at all, so I'm not sure what you think you are gaining by bringing up the status of People of the Book.

 

[Hollie]

1. What is "reformed" about Qutb ideology and classic Islamic ideology of a global Islamic state?

Reducing Qutb's ideological structures simply down to a singular and generalize notion of "global Islamic state" is pretty indicative that you haven't studied Qutbism much. Once again, have you even ever read Milestones?

2. Do you know anything of jihad?

Quite a bit. What would you like to discuss?

This might be a good time to familiarize yourself with Qutb's ideology and the ideology of Islam per its inventor. They are identical.