An Informal Debate on Race Relations in the United States Including Its History

[MarcATL]

It's where it starts and you'll never get rid of the systemic problems until the people acting in the system get a handle on their own biases.
Let their be peace on Earth, and let it begin with me.

This is absolutely inaccurate.

If it's a SYSTEMIC problem, how can it be resolved by an INDIVIDUAL?

Explain that.

 

[MarcATL]

Good lord woman you sure love to change the context of what people type.
I did not say blacks were hunky dory before the 50s... obviously not. I said they did not have this self-defeating amoral culture that inner city blacks have; before liberal social policies gave them the handouts and free housing that bunched them together like caged animals.
Prior to this social engineering, blacks were a proud race of people that were hard working - VERY - family oriented, VERY religious and self disciplined. But they were plagued by genuine racism that prevented them from being able to be what they could be.
Early post civil rights, legally they were on level ground, but systemic white racism still plagued them. That continued really until the baby boomers retired/died off and my generation took over. Genuine racism began to quickly erode. And indeed suburban blacks were beginning to catch up with whites as early as the 1980s. But the inner city blacks were the ones the Democrats housed together away from the rest of society and gave them barely enough money to just survive. How the hell anyone thought this would work is insane. And thus, the great decline of inner city blacks was sealed.
Meanwhile, suburban blacks have made tremendous gains in every facet of our society.

Until Democrats can at the very least admit the social engineering was a colossal failure instead of continuing the same policies that created generational dependence in the first place! They do everything they can to encourage perceived racism and victimization that imprisons blacks into depending on their social programs to survive - and REFUSE to address all of the massive problems this creates.

So as great as you claimed blacks were then, whites, aka the system treated them inhumanely, which includes MASSIVE death.

Now you claim that some different type of "inner city blacks" are immoral.

But nothing of the white society, and system, that SAVAGED them, while they were being, as you stated, so great a race.

Do you see the problem here?

 

[MarcATL]

i dont know any of these whites you speak of ....as the average white American the whites i know work their asses off just to pay the bills and put food on the table ! listening to you it sounds like you believe all whites are evil rich and racist and have been given everything ...thats a lie .

This is history.

Are you refuting this is what happened in this country?

 

[Coyote]

I've stood in front of city councils, I've been on TV and radio. I have written op eds and spoke on college campuses. If you dared to spit on me, your life will change immediately.

This is one of many times I wish for ou old “in

What assumptions?

When blacks talk about the racial injustice historically in this country, then contemporary whites, for the most part, start complaining about "lumping them in groups" and "group assumptions."

Seriously now, does that make sense to you?

Assumptions such as all whites are racist.

 

[MarcATL]

If I've lost any debate then the truth has no place here. All I'm doing is to quote history. You've not disputed the facts. Sticking a label on the material and declaring a winner in a REAL debate would have eliminated you. I've already addressed the fact that there were people here; however, you ignored TWO important facts:

1) They were not civilized which didn't give them much of a chance in a fight AND

2) The colonists took the land based upon the internationally accepted Right of Conquest... which I bolded and whether it was right or wrong, it was perfectly legal. Adding insult to injury I went on to make a correlation between current U.S. policies toward other nations and the fact that we do it in foreign lands without any discussion or debate and, instead of forming a factual response to that you told a bare faced, rotten, stinking lie. You think that everybody that doesn't bow down and kiss your royal ass is "Identity." You proclaim anyone that disagrees with you to be racist, etc. and most people put your dumb ass on ignore. One thing that is the irrefutable truth here is that you are a low down, no good, lying piece of shit. Now, are we going to have a debate or do you want a pissing match OR does the OP want me to disappear? I can be uninvited as quickly as I got invited.

This is where you referred to it being legal and/or the law.

Am I wrong in this understanding?

My question is simply, to who?

Certainly not to the conquered/defeated native Indians. Correct?

 

[yidnar]

I actually thought it provided quite a lot of information to back up the claims that racism is still an inherent problem in the system.

whites stop listening as soon as they are called racist or privileged ... a question for im2 and MarcATL why did blacks have the lowest divorce rate and a lower drop out rate and a lower crime rate and a higher per capita small business ownership than they do now in the late 40s and 50s before they embraced the democratic party ?

 

[MarcATL]

This is one of many times I wish for ou old “in

Assumptions such as all whites are racist.

If you were in a system, or country, these two words are interchangeable in this context anyway.

If you were in a system, where blacks historically were given every advantage possible, where blacks enslaved whites for 100s of years, where whites had to fight for their freedom, and even after a civil war, blacks changed the rules to still continue to disadvantage whites, but give advantages to blacks.

What would you say about blacks benefiting from all that today? Considering the system hadn't changed much, other than allowing whites to be able to be, and work around whites w/o blatant harm.

 

[MarcATL]

whites stop listening as soon as they are called racist or privileged ... a question for im2 why did blacks have the lowest divorce rate and a lower drop out rate and a lower crime rate and a higher per capita small business ownership than they do now in the late 40s and 50s before they embraced the democratic party ?

My question to you is, where whites racist during and/or before the late 40s and 50s?

 

[Coyote]

If you were in a system, or country, these two words are interchangeable in this context anyway.

If you were in a system, where blacks historically were given every advantage possible, where blacks enslaved whites for 100s of years, where whites had to fight for their freedom, and even after a civil war, blacks changed the rules to still continue to disadvantage whites, but give advantages to blacks.

What would you say about blacks benefiting from all that today? Considering the system hadn't changed much, other than allowing whites to be able to be, and work around whites w/o blatant harm.

I don’t agree that the system hasn’t “changed much”. It has changed a great deal. It is not yet where it needs to be but itis far from 60 or more years ago.

And were I in the system you describe I still would not characterize all blacks as racist. People are individuals.

 

[MarcATL]

I'll take number 1 for $200 Alex, lol.

So you don't believe that the United States of America was founded on the premise of white supremacy?

Well what do you believe white supremacy is?

 

[MarcATL]

I don’t agree that the system hasn’t “changed much”. It has changed a great deal. It is not yet where it needs to be but itis far from 60 or more years ago.

And were I in the system you describe I still would not characterize all blacks as racist. People are individuals.

Where have you ever seen any of us use the word "all" when talking about whites?

Consider this, if someone stuck a knife into your back 6 inches deep, but over a series of years, pulled it out a couple inches.

Would you care to specify that it's better, because it's not so deeply into your back? Or that the damn knife is still in your back?

 

[MarcATL]

oh no ! racism, slavery ,tribalism, genoside, was the norm in most powerfull civilizations not the exception throughout history !!! the problem whites today have is the blame and guilt placed on them for something they had nothing to do with ...i think the unrest going on today has an economic message from the left also .....tell us do you believe that the capitalistic system in this country is a form of white supremacy ??? blm and many leaders on the left like AOC believe that it is ....

@IM2 stated that whites were given free land, etc. Your reply was that you don't know any such whites.

He was referring to history, you're skipping to contemporary times.

By doing that, you're refuting the historic claim.

Is that noble and/or honest of you?

 

[MarcATL]

I don’t agree that the system hasn’t “changed much”. It has changed a great deal. It is not yet where it needs to be but itis far from 60 or more years ago.

And were I in the system you describe I still would not characterize all blacks as racist. People are individuals.

Can you tell me some of the ways you perceive that the system has changed much?

 

[MarcATL]

THIS IS A CONTINUATION OF POSTS # 144 and 156

The posts numbers changed a bit so maybe some posts got deleted, but if you've been following what I've said thus far I have shown what was on the minds of the founders and framers as they founded this Republic. For better or worse, the truth is the truth.

Since there is no attempt to have a serious or honest discourse outlining the subject matter from the point of the white people (of which I've made no comment against the black peoples point of view), we're down to slinging skeet and allowing black supremacists to make unfounded charges, so, this time I can sound off and just post opinions.

Whether you like it or you don't like it, America was founded by white people. If you want to call it "racist," be my guest because I have some opinions of those of you supporting black extremism. China, Japan, North Korea, South Korea, Zimbabwe, and many other smaller countries that I can name are 98 + percent homogeneous. NOBODY seems to have a problem with that. Well over 98 percent of China's population is Han Chinese. China is a country where there are more Chinese in China than there are white people on the face of the earth. China even outlaws Muslims and Catholics (among others) from coming there and setting up shop. People go to the shooting, looting and obstructing traffic rallies, forcing whites to accept a skewed version of both history and reality. Oh, so many people are "offended" by racism (sic), but if we took all the products in their homes that were made in places like China and Japan (which has claimed to be the most racially pure nation on earth) their place would look like Old Mother Hubbard's cupboard... it would be bare.

When I went into the history of this subject, I'm asked what's the point? What WAS the point if you don't want to understand the issue from ALL sides of the political spectrum? You don't have to belong to the MAGA crowd (I'm not a member); you don't need to be "Identity" (of which I'm not, regardless of the lies the first loser of this "debate" posted) and you don't need to be a white supremacist to have an unpopular opinion about race relations. We do not question the motives of all the other races and cultures on this earth who practice the "pretend evils" that black people claim are offensive. The difference is, black people are concerned with THEIR RACE and its well being. When a black supremacist speaks out, they advocate for the self determination of the black people. NOBODY is allowed to offer a view from a white man's perspective, however, without being subject to personal attacks. The black supremacists realize that they have NO legitimate issues by which to attack whites. And there is no way in Hell that this topic is about slavery.

BIG money powers wanting to court the black vote on one hand and destroy the Republic on the other, illegally ratified the 14th Amendment. Today, the blacks hide behind the 14th Amendment to claim their "civil rights" and tell you how much they find slavery or any mention thereof offensive. I call B.S. on them. While the REAL INTENT of the 14th Amendment was to nullify the Bill of Rights and abolish unalienable Rights, reducing all Americans to the status of a government slave, black people love to hide behind that atrocity and call white people names and wage a war of genocide against whites. Ironically, the political party that wants every person to advance based upon their inherent abilities was not to the liking of most black people. So, black supremacists did a Pearl Harbor on the people that went to bat for them and today they bitch about slavery. Yet most blacks choose politicians that tell them when they should wake up in the morning, what they should eat, where they should work, what a living wage is, and how they should rely on a government / god for their education, health, and individual welfare. In short, they love being slaves; they just don't like the perception that whites are still governing the country. It is hate mongering racism at a level that would make most white supremacists (though none exist any longer in the United States - maybe enough to fill a school bus), blush. Blacks vote for slavery EVERY election cycle... and then blame the whites for the government the blacks create. They love living in the past, unable to accept the role of their own brethren that sold them in the first place and then having their lying spokesmen come out to defend the people who profited the most off it - even to the point of making false allegations against me to hide their real motives. If somebody wants the facts, bring it. I doubt it will be in this thread because it's plain to me, the supremacists wanting to wage a war of genocide against the Posterity of the founders by defacing and removing their statues, memorials, monuments, and plaques; changing the names of streets, schools and other government buildings; outlawing their flags; limiting their Rights to Freedom of Speech, Freedom of the Press and Freedom of Association and demanding that we get down on our knees for allowing them the privilege to be Americans are fighting, using the playbook of Isis with their hate and destruction. They can't handle the truth.

Why are you so shocked by this OldLady ?

 

[MarcATL]

oh ...when you talk about the great expansion out west and things like that sure ... but many lost everything in the dust bowl the great depression rail road expansion ect ....now there may be some families that prospered and still benefit from their ancestors lands but the vast vast majority of Americans today dont ... Rome owned slaves and so did Egypt should we tear down the Colosseum and the statues of Pharaoh ?

Now you're saying that "many" lost their gains.

And bringing up Rome and Egypt.

Is that taking responsibility for American's historic role in chattel slavery?

 

[MarcATL]

of course there are things like slavery and taking land from native Americans in our history !
now i can tell by the way you post that you are an intelligent man and so is im2 .... but you dodged the question ....i dont have a college education like im assuming both of you have .... so please enlighten me on whether or not you believe the capitalistic system in this country is a form of white supremacy like many leaders on the left like AOC and BLM have stated ...

How does this question of yours relate to the OP?

 

[freyasman]

So you don't believe that the United States of America was founded on the premise of white supremacy?

Well what do you believe white supremacy is?

Good question, I never thought of how I would define that term.
I'll think on it and get back to you.

Btw, how do you define it?

 

[IM2]

I'd give my front seat in Hell for that opportunity. I've been in courts with my life on the line for what I believe in. I've been shot at - more than once. You have NOTHING on me.

No Porter, you would not.

 

[MarcATL]

sure many were ..... but many werent .... but you didnt answer the question .... why were blacks doing better in those eras when jim crow was prominent ?

"Doing better?"

By being legally brutalized by whites?

No sir, I don't accept that claim.

Also, you said many were and weren't. OK, whatever, but wasn't the SYSTEM racist, at least at that point?

 

[MarcATL]

Good question, I never thought of how I would define that term.
I'll think on it and get back to you.

Btw, how do you define it?

This works for me...

White supremacy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org