An invitation to Old Guy on the subject of Noah's Flood.

[JoeB131]

Where did JoeB131 go? It's his thread and he's now absent.

I kind of lost interest after it went off the rails.

 

[JoeB131]

Where did JoeB131 go? It's his thread and he's now absent.

On the phone, in a panic, desperately trying to find somebody, ANYBODY, to post the 10% of his 400 dollar bail?

Wow, guy, you really are obsessed with me. It's sort of pathetic.

sorry, man, I have a waiting list for my cyber stalkers. You are just going to have to wait for an opening.

 

[JoeB131]

[quo


How do you account for the Bible being the only book (that I know of), written by about 40 different authors, from different countries, ages and stations of life (most of whom did not know each other), over a period of about 2000 years in all or scraps of 4 different languages...and yet, it teaches the same message consistently from beginning to end?

It doesn't.

The bible contains 472 contradictions-

SAB Contradictions

More to the point, the underlying problem is not that the bible reached the same conclusions, but that books were included and discarded based on the needs of the people who were using it to justify their viewpoint.

So the Gospel of John is in with all it's whackiness, and the Gospel of Thomas is out because it relfected the views of the Gnostics too much.

The Gospels of Matthew and Luke are plagarized expansions of the Gospel of Mark (90% of which is repeated in one or both of them.) but in trying to fill in Jesus' backstory, they contradict each other on when he was born (Matthew 4 BC, Luke 6 AD)

We could also point out that the Catholic Old Testament contains 7 books that were discarded from the Jewish and Protestant Old Testaments.

But here's where I see the bigger problem.

The God of the Old Testament is a typical bronze age diety. He's the explanation for a cruel nature for people who were too fuckin' ignorant to know what a germ was or where the sun went at night. Famine? God must be angry, let's stone a sinner! Plague? God must be really mad we didn't genocide the shit out of our neighbors who worship a different sky pixie!

The New Testamant is actually a God for the Iron age, where people understood some math and some science and actually started to wonder what happened to you after you died. Keep in mind, the OT rarely talks about life after death or indicates that there is one.

The New Testament, knowing the forces of nature aren't as scary as they were to their bronze age ancestors, now need to invent NEW things to scare people into compliance. Hey, don't worry about that plague, worry we are going to burn you for all eternity if you sin. But don't worry, we are just keeping Butt-Sex on the list of sins. We are taking the pork and shellfish off the list. (Unless you are a Seventh Day Adventist, that is. No Pork and Shrimp Eggroll for you!)

Now, angry atheist that I am, even I will admit there are some positive things in the bible, but they are wrapped up in so much bullshit stupid and mean people use to justify their douchebaggery, I just can't take it seriously.

 

[Oldguy]

Where did JoeB131 go? It's his thread and he's now absent.

I kind of lost interest after it went off the rails.

True. It did, but doesn't every thread? LOL

I was just curious, that's all. Every thread has an ending point, doesn't it?

 

[Wicked Jester]

Where did JoeB131 go? It's his thread and he's now absent.

On the phone, in a panic, desperately trying to find somebody, ANYBODY, to post the 10% of his 400 dollar bail?

Wow, guy, you really are obsessed with me. It's sort of pathetic.

sorry, man, I have a waiting list for my cyber stalkers. You are just going to have to wait for an opening.

Obsessed with you?.....Bwahahahahhahahhahahhahhhahaaaa!

Pointing out you're a con man, on the level of Obama, every opportunity I see?......OH HELL YEAH!

 

[JoeB131]

On the phone, in a panic, desperately trying to find somebody, ANYBODY, to post the 10% of his 400 dollar bail?

Wow, guy, you really are obsessed with me. It's sort of pathetic.

sorry, man, I have a waiting list for my cyber stalkers. You are just going to have to wait for an opening.

Obsessed with you?.....Bwahahahahhahahhahahhahhhahaaaa!

Pointing out you're a con man, on the level of Obama, every opportunity I see?......OH HELL YEAH!

Hey, guy... here's the thing. THe GOP establishment is already admitting I'm right.

They are changing on gays, they are changing on immigration, they are trying to shut up the loudmouths on Abortion....

Too bad they didn't do that before the election, they might have won.

 

[Oldguy]

[quo


How do you account for the Bible being the only book (that I know of), written by about 40 different authors, from different countries, ages and stations of life (most of whom did not know each other), over a period of about 2000 years in all or scraps of 4 different languages...and yet, it teaches the same message consistently from beginning to end?

It doesn't.

The bible contains 472 contradictions-

SAB Contradictions

More to the point, the underlying problem is not that the bible reached the same conclusions, but that books were included and discarded based on the needs of the people who were using it to justify their viewpoint.

So the Gospel of John is in with all it's whackiness, and the Gospel of Thomas is out because it relfected the views of the Gnostics too much.

The Gospels of Matthew and Luke are plagarized expansions of the Gospel of Mark (90% of which is repeated in one or both of them.) but in trying to fill in Jesus' backstory, they contradict each other on when he was born (Matthew 4 BC, Luke 6 AD)

We could also point out that the Catholic Old Testament contains 7 books that were discarded from the Jewish and Protestant Old Testaments.

But here's where I see the bigger problem.

The God of the Old Testament is a typical bronze age diety. He's the explanation for a cruel nature for people who were too fuckin' ignorant to know what a germ was or where the sun went at night. Famine? God must be angry, let's stone a sinner! Plague? God must be really mad we didn't genocide the shit out of our neighbors who worship a different sky pixie!

The New Testamant is actually a God for the Iron age, where people understood some math and some science and actually started to wonder what happened to you after you died. Keep in mind, the OT rarely talks about life after death or indicates that there is one.

The New Testament, knowing the forces of nature aren't as scary as they were to their bronze age ancestors, now need to invent NEW things to scare people into compliance. Hey, don't worry about that plague, worry we are going to burn you for all eternity if you sin. But don't worry, we are just keeping Butt-Sex on the list of sins. We are taking the pork and shellfish off the list. (Unless you are a Seventh Day Adventist, that is. No Pork and Shrimp Eggroll for you!)

Now, angry atheist that I am, even I will admit there are some positive things in the bible, but they are wrapped up in so much bullshit stupid and mean people use to justify their douchebaggery, I just can't take it seriously.

If the OT is a religion for the Bronze Age, and the NT one for the Iron Age, wouldn't it be logical to assume that by now we'd have new and different Gospel's for the Age of Enlightenment, the Age of Reason or even the modern Information Age? But, we don't. The Bible has remained firmly in use for more than 2000 years now and has survived through many successive "ages" without being replaced or added to. The only new religion which has reached a wide audience is Islam, which could hardly be called a religion for the modern age.

But, in any case, that would be a subject for another thread, wouldn't it?

Be well, my friend.

 

[JoeB131]

I would argue that the bible has been added to, which is why we have 1000 denominations of Christianity, and about 100 translations.

 

[Oldguy]

I would argue that the bible has been added to, which is why we have 1000 denominations of Christianity, and about 100 translations.

Oh, I think we have so many Christian denominations because everybody thinks they've got all the truth to themselves. Apart from the original Protestant Reformation, the explosion of sects and denominations have more to do with disagreements over interpretation than the source document itself. That's the influence of fallible human beings and perfectly highlights the difference between faith and religion. As has been said, faith is from God; religion is man-made and the trouble starts when that difference is unrecognized. For too many people, what they have is religion, not faith.

As for those interpretations? There's many more than 100! There is a concerted effort in the Christian community to translate the Bible into every known language and they're pretty close to succeeding in that already. The idea is, of course, to put the scriptures into the hands of every human being who can read, in the language they use. Naturally, there are some issues which arise during any translation because there aren't always exactly companion words, but for most of them, the overall message comes through loud and clear. As with most of the Bible, the MESSAGE is what's important, not the specific words or phrases used.

 

[Foxfyre]

I would argue that the bible has been added to, which is why we have 1000 denominations of Christianity, and about 100 translations.

Oh, I think we have so many Christian denominations because everybody thinks they've got all the truth to themselves. Apart from the original Protestant Reformation, the explosion of sects and denominations have more to do with disagreements over interpretation than the source document itself. That's the influence of fallible human beings and perfectly highlights the difference between faith and religion. As has been said, faith is from God; religion is man-made and the trouble starts when that difference is unrecognized. For too many people, what they have is religion, not faith.

As for those interpretations? There's many more than 100! There is a concerted effort in the Christian community to translate the Bible into every known language and they're pretty close to succeeding in that already. The idea is, of course, to put the scriptures into the hands of every human being who can read, in the language they use. Naturally, there are some issues which arise during any translation because there aren't always exactly companion words, but for most of them, the overall message comes through loud and clear. As with most of the Bible, the MESSAGE is what's important, not the specific words or phrases used.

Well said. And for many people of faith, when we try to dictate what that message is, we'll get it wrong almost every single time. But when we hear it through the voice of the Holy Spirit, it can be life changing and result in some amzingly wonderful consequences.

I don't know who is more in error. Those religious people who try to so narrowly confine God's word that it can be used to judge and condemn everybody else. . .or. . .

Those people who reject the God of the Bible and try to so narrowly confine the words that they can be used as justification to accuse people of faith.

But regardless, God is pretty amazing. He manages to use the most imperfect of the imperfect to accomplish great things. The stories of the Bible testify to that again and again. And I believe every generation witnesses that phenomenon again and again.