An invitation to Old Guy on the subject of Noah's Flood.

[LittleNipper]

[

Actually, I find that much of Roman Catholicism has less to do with the Bible and more to do with pagan traditions married to Christianity. It is much like Mormonism. They both house humanistic influences. The Republicans made/make mistakes; however, the reality is that Republicans were led by the anti slavery view of fundamentalists, while the Democrats followed the Catholic view in the South. It wasn't until the 1960's that the South began to swing to a more Chrisitan view of slavery and racism as biblical fundamentalism moved Southward. And people began to view what happened to the "Old" South as the direct result of the sin of slavery. It might also be seen that UNTIL the North pushed for abolishion of slavery, the war was being won by the South over the godly issue of "states rights."

Guy, I don't see that.

Now, I have a LOT of good reasons not to have any love for the RCC. But frankly, blaming them for Southern intrangigence on slavery isn't one of them. We can largely thank the Souther Baptists for that nonsense.

I know Protestants like to think they are living a more "pure" version of Christianity, but it's laughable. They do what all the religions do. Pick and choose the bible passages that validate their world view. And try to pretend the ones they used to use that are kind of nasty now don't.

It seems to me that England and her colonies had slaves and England started as a Catholic nation. And the very same could be said of Spain and her colonies. And on top of it all was the Inquisition. Then we have the ERROR of celebacy of clergy centuries after the early church came to be, the Immaculate Conception of Mary (also called the Queen of Heaven by her worshippers), Peter being named the foundation of the Church -- the 1st pope (no proof he was even in Rome), Transubstantiation, the inclusion of the Apacrypha (not even accepted as biblical at the time of Christ). NONE of this is supported by a thorough reading of the Bible. AND reading the Bible was not even something the Roman Church of the Dark Ages would allow to its adherences let alone outsiders... Sorry, the church of Rome was an apostate governmental organization --- disliked by most the Founding Fathers and early Americans with few exceptions. Protestantism is not perfect but it usherred in the Renaissance and the Great Revival. And tellingly, the PRINTING of the Bible in various languages is what is given credit for bringing this about to a large degree. Error after error after error. I see why you have issues.

 

[Wicked Jester]

So you feel you have had a bad experience and want everyone else to share your bad experience,how thoughtful of you.

Thing is, he had no bad experience whatsoever....It's only too damn obvious he's lying his proverbial ASS off.

Look, he's just one of those angry, bitter, hateful, intolerant, bigoted, far left atheist types, nothing more.....The funny thing though, is that he actually thinks clear thinking people believe his myriad of abject BS....The most hilarious of his BS being, that he actually tries to claim he's a former conservative.

And, if you ever want to get a sense of who are some of the dumbest posters on this board, just look at the bottom of his posts and see who thanks him.

Basically, to sum it all up, he occupies the same room as Truthmatters, Rdean, Duddly Hermaphrodite, Lakhota, and a few other far lefty loons, who are totally insignificant, yet entertaining in their abject attempts to seem relevent on any level.

And yet look at all the space I'm occupying in your head, rent free!

For someone who thinks I'm "irrelevent", you spend an awful lot of time obsessing about what I say.

Does it truly disturb you that someone who went to Catholic Schools for 12 years could turn into an atheist after a death in the family because those fairy stories were just that, fairy stories.

Does it disturb you when someone stops voting Republican after figuring out that as a working guy, he's voting against his own economic interests?

Or do you just find it implausible because your thinking is so limited?

Trust me, you occupy no space in my mind....I just enjoy pointing out the fact that you're as phoney as a three dollar bill, and will point out that fact every time I see you posting your abject bullshit.

Ya' see, if you HAD spent twelve years living life as a Catholic, you would have undoubtedly walked away with at least some of the moral values instilled....It's just human nature...You've fully proven that you're a far left wing loon who seriously lacks ANY moral values......If you actually spent any part of your life as a conservatlive, you would still hold on to at least some conservative values....It's just human nature....You've fully proven that you have zero conservative values, and are nothing more than an angry, bitter, hateful, intolerant, far left liberal loon, period.

 

[JoeB131]

[]Trust me, you occupy no space in my mind....I just enjoy pointing out the fact that you're as phoney as a three dollar bill, and will point out that fact every time I see you posting your abject bullshit.

Ya' see, if you HAD spent twelve years living life as a Catholic, you would have undoubtedly walked away with at least some of the moral values instilled....It's just human nature...You've fully proven that you're a far left wing loon who seriously lacks ANY moral values......If you actually spent any part of your life as a conservatlive, you would still hold on to at least some conservative values....It's just human nature....You've fully proven that you have zero conservative values, and are nothing more than an angry, bitter, hateful, intolerant, far left liberal loon, period.

Depends what you consider morality.

I think the Nuns (when they weren't being frustrated lesbians) would have said that letting a child die of a treatable disease so a big corporation could make a profit and pay its CEO a 8 figure salary is immoral and wrong.

The real problem with both religion and the conservative movement is that it has completely and utterly sold out to wealthy interests.

The wealthy manipulate the religiously stupid into voting against their own economic interests, and they wonder why their middle class lifestyle is vanishing.

 

[LittleNipper]

[]Trust me, you occupy no space in my mind....I just enjoy pointing out the fact that you're as phoney as a three dollar bill, and will point out that fact every time I see you posting your abject bullshit.

Ya' see, if you HAD spent twelve years living life as a Catholic, you would have undoubtedly walked away with at least some of the moral values instilled....It's just human nature...You've fully proven that you're a far left wing loon who seriously lacks ANY moral values......If you actually spent any part of your life as a conservatlive, you would still hold on to at least some conservative values....It's just human nature....You've fully proven that you have zero conservative values, and are nothing more than an angry, bitter, hateful, intolerant, far left liberal loon, period.

Depends what you consider morality.

I think the Nuns (when they weren't being frustrated lesbians) would have said that letting a child die of a treatable disease so a big corporation could make a profit and pay its CEO a 8 figure salary is immoral and wrong.

The real problem with both religion and the conservative movement is that it has completely and utterly sold out to wealthy interests.

The wealthy manipulate the religiously stupid into voting against their own economic interests, and they wonder why their middle class lifestyle is vanishing.

No, I see that abuse is what ruins society. The abuse of marriage --- for the selfish purposes of either wealth gain or having a live in sex partner. The abuse of healthcare to take care of people who abuse drugs, sex, and habitually smoke. The abuse of communities by moving factories out of the area to cut expenses,

 

[Foxfyre]

[]Trust me, you occupy no space in my mind....I just enjoy pointing out the fact that you're as phoney as a three dollar bill, and will point out that fact every time I see you posting your abject bullshit.

Ya' see, if you HAD spent twelve years living life as a Catholic, you would have undoubtedly walked away with at least some of the moral values instilled....It's just human nature...You've fully proven that you're a far left wing loon who seriously lacks ANY moral values......If you actually spent any part of your life as a conservatlive, you would still hold on to at least some conservative values....It's just human nature....You've fully proven that you have zero conservative values, and are nothing more than an angry, bitter, hateful, intolerant, far left liberal loon, period.

Depends what you consider morality.

I think the Nuns (when they weren't being frustrated lesbians) would have said that letting a child die of a treatable disease so a big corporation could make a profit and pay its CEO a 8 figure salary is immoral and wrong.

The real problem with both religion and the conservative movement is that it has completely and utterly sold out to wealthy interests.

The wealthy manipulate the religiously stupid into voting against their own economic interests, and they wonder why their middle class lifestyle is vanishing.

No, I see that abuse is what ruins society. The abuse of marriage --- for the selfish purposes of either wealth gain or having a live in sex partner. The abuse of healthcare to take care of people who abuse drugs, sex, and habitually smoke. The abuse of communities by moving factories out of the area to cut expenses,

And that is where those ancient stories in the Bible become constructive. If you define sin as that which harms yourself and/or others and understand that there is consequence for sin, whether intended or unintended, then those old stories, history or allegory, begin to make more sense.

It is a concept that God created a perfect world, a perfect universe and we have spoiled it, bit by bit, sin by sin, over time. God for whatever reason loved us enough to want us to experience love, and there was no way to give us love without giving us the freedom to hate, to be wrong, to be foolish, to be bad.

Why do bad things happen to good people? Because sin is destructive to all, not just to the one who commits it. As the Scripture says, the sins of the fathers are visited upon the children even until the fourth and fifth generations which, in Bible talk, means indefinitely. The children suffer the consequences of our sins.

To think that the religious and conservatives are the only ones who have sold out to wealthy interests is to display one of the most huge set of blinders and demonstrate the worst case of tunnel vision possible. But whenever we gave elected leaders the ability to use our own money to bribe us, to persuade us, to punish us, to coerce us while they increase their own power, influence, prestige, and personal fortunes, we have been sold out. And sin is rampant in the land.

And there is no way to lay that at the feet of the religious and conseratives, most of whom are heartsick at what is happening whether or not they contributed to it.

And, as the line from the movie goes, God was watching.

 

[Samson]

The wealthy manipulate the religiously stupid into voting against their own economic interests, and they wonder why their middle class lifestyle is vanishing.

By Religiously Stupid, you mean people that refer to "Noah's Flood."

Religiously smart people understand it was Noah's Ark.

 

[Gadawg73]

The wealthy manipulate the religiously stupid into voting against their own economic interests, and they wonder why their middle class lifestyle is vanishing.

By Religiously Stupid, you mean people that refer to "Noah's Flood."

Religiously smart people understand it was Noah's Ark.

The myth of Noah's Ark.

 

[Hollie]

Sun Pictures and the Noah's Ark Hoax

On February 20, 1993, CBS aired "The Incredible Discovery of Noah's Ark," Sun International Pictures' rehash of its 1976 film "In Search of Noah's Ark."[1] At the end of June, Skeptics Society advisor Gerald Larue publicly revealed (via Associated Press and Time magazine) that George Jammal, one of the alleged eyewitnesses of Noah's Ark on Mt. Ararat, was a hoaxer, and that Larue himself had played a role in the hoax.[2] The purpose: to demonstrate the shoddy research of Sun International Pictures.

 

[Oldguy]

Sun Pictures and the Noah's Ark Hoax

On February 20, 1993, CBS aired "The Incredible Discovery of Noah's Ark," Sun International Pictures' rehash of its 1976 film "In Search of Noah's Ark."[1] At the end of June, Skeptics Society advisor Gerald Larue publicly revealed (via Associated Press and Time magazine) that George Jammal, one of the alleged eyewitnesses of Noah's Ark on Mt. Ararat, was a hoaxer, and that Larue himself had played a role in the hoax.[2] The purpose: to demonstrate the shoddy research of Sun International Pictures.

They haven't found Jimmy Hoffa's body either, but that doesn't mean he's not dead.

 

[westwall]

[]Trust me, you occupy no space in my mind....I just enjoy pointing out the fact that you're as phoney as a three dollar bill, and will point out that fact every time I see you posting your abject bullshit.

Ya' see, if you HAD spent twelve years living life as a Catholic, you would have undoubtedly walked away with at least some of the moral values instilled....It's just human nature...You've fully proven that you're a far left wing loon who seriously lacks ANY moral values......If you actually spent any part of your life as a conservatlive, you would still hold on to at least some conservative values....It's just human nature....You've fully proven that you have zero conservative values, and are nothing more than an angry, bitter, hateful, intolerant, far left liberal loon, period.

Depends what you consider morality.

I think the Nuns (when they weren't being frustrated lesbians) would have said that letting a child die of a treatable disease so a big corporation could make a profit and pay its CEO a 8 figure salary is immoral and wrong.

The real problem with both religion and the conservative movement is that it has completely and utterly sold out to wealthy interests.

The wealthy manipulate the religiously stupid into voting against their own economic interests, and they wonder why their middle class lifestyle is vanishing.[/QUOTE]






This is very true. However the Democrats are just as culpable (if not more so) by their effort to bring everyone to the same level. It is far more difficult to elevate people...far more. So they take the easy route and take everybody down to the lowest common denominator.

Taxes and fuel and energy prices are destroying the middle class while you watch.

 

[Hollie]

Sun Pictures and the Noah's Ark Hoax

On February 20, 1993, CBS aired "The Incredible Discovery of Noah's Ark," Sun International Pictures' rehash of its 1976 film "In Search of Noah's Ark."[1] At the end of June, Skeptics Society advisor Gerald Larue publicly revealed (via Associated Press and Time magazine) that George Jammal, one of the alleged eyewitnesses of Noah's Ark on Mt. Ararat, was a hoaxer, and that Larue himself had played a role in the hoax.[2] The purpose: to demonstrate the shoddy research of Sun International Pictures.

They haven't found Jimmy Hoffa's body either, but that doesn't mean he's not dead.

You do realize that such an attempted analogy is pretty silly, right?

 

[BreezeWood]

To think that the religious and conservatives are the only ones who have sold out to wealthy interests is to display one of the most huge set of blinders and demonstrate the worst case of tunnel vision possible. But whenever we gave elected leaders the ability to use our own money to bribe us, to persuade us, to punish us, to coerce us while they increase their own power, influence, prestige, and personal fortunes, we have been sold out. And sin is rampant in the land.

And there is no way to lay that at the feet of the religious and conseratives, most of whom are heartsick at what is happening whether or not they contributed to it.

And, as the line from the movie goes, God was watching.

And, as the line from the movie goes, God was watching.


really, for what?

is there an understanding, through the Bible why the Deity returned ... ?



Could it be - Noah and the parable of Judgement: - when the last good person or the last evil person on earth dies, those who are remaining will be Judged, they or the last to die will be granted Remission to the Everlasting.


God was watching: Noah was to be the last good person left and with his death, the parable set by God for his return would be fulfilled - Armageddon, the Triumph of Evil was at hand.



oh well, Amageddon - the Triumph of Good is not in the Bible so they go on from there, the Food not really knowing why .... Scripturalists.

 

[Oldguy]

Sun Pictures and the Noah's Ark Hoax

On February 20, 1993, CBS aired "The Incredible Discovery of Noah's Ark," Sun International Pictures' rehash of its 1976 film "In Search of Noah's Ark."[1] At the end of June, Skeptics Society advisor Gerald Larue publicly revealed (via Associated Press and Time magazine) that George Jammal, one of the alleged eyewitnesses of Noah's Ark on Mt. Ararat, was a hoaxer, and that Larue himself had played a role in the hoax.[2] The purpose: to demonstrate the shoddy research of Sun International Pictures.

They haven't found Jimmy Hoffa's body either, but that doesn't mean he's not dead.

You do realize that such an attempted analogy is pretty silly, right?

Not if your post was an attempt to discredit Noah's ark.

If it wasn't? Well....ya win some, ya lose some!

 

[Foxfyre]

To think that the religious and conservatives are the only ones who have sold out to wealthy interests is to display one of the most huge set of blinders and demonstrate the worst case of tunnel vision possible. But whenever we gave elected leaders the ability to use our own money to bribe us, to persuade us, to punish us, to coerce us while they increase their own power, influence, prestige, and personal fortunes, we have been sold out. And sin is rampant in the land.

And there is no way to lay that at the feet of the religious and conseratives, most of whom are heartsick at what is happening whether or not they contributed to it.

And, as the line from the movie goes, God was watching.

And, as the line from the movie goes, God was watching.


really, for what?

is there an understanding, through the Bible why the Deity returned ... ?



Could it be - Noah and the parable of Judgement: - when the last good person or the last evil person on earth dies, those who are remaining will be Judged, they or the last to die will be granted Remission to the Everlasting.


God was watching: Noah was to be the last good person left and with his death, the parable set by God for his return would be fulfilled - Armageddon, the Triumph of Evil was at hand.



oh well, Amageddon - the Triumph of Good is not in the Bible so they go on from there, the Food not really knowing why .... Scripturalists.

I have no special insights into what the story of Noah was all about. I see it as one of the motifs running through the scriptures manifested as God's people were almost destroyed again and again, or certain tribes were descimated to the point of extinction, but God always saved a remnant that carried on. The message, however, seems fairly straight forward. Those who fail to do it God's way will encounter consequences for that--consequences interpreted by the ancient ones as God's judgment. Indeed it may have been but I see judgment then and now as more likely the natural consequence of failing to seek God's guidance and screwing up as a result. In other words, we do it God's way or we sin. And there are always consequences for sin.

But one thing is certain. God was able to use imperfect people to accomplish great things. I believe he still does. So the scripture was absolutely brutal re Noah's imperfections, but because he was able to trust God and follow his commands, he accomplished a great thing. And the story also includes God's promise is that God will be with the people now and forever. I don't know that we need to read much more into it than that.

 

[JoeB131]

The wealthy manipulate the religiously stupid into voting against their own economic interests, and they wonder why their middle class lifestyle is vanishing.

By Religiously Stupid, you mean people that refer to "Noah's Flood."

Religiously smart people understand it was Noah's Ark.

No, making a distinction between Noah's Flood and the Floods of other mythological characters...

Man, this argument has the stink of desperation on it...

 

[JoeB131]

Sun Pictures and the Noah's Ark Hoax

On February 20, 1993, CBS aired "The Incredible Discovery of Noah's Ark," Sun International Pictures' rehash of its 1976 film "In Search of Noah's Ark."[1] At the end of June, Skeptics Society advisor Gerald Larue publicly revealed (via Associated Press and Time magazine) that George Jammal, one of the alleged eyewitnesses of Noah's Ark on Mt. Ararat, was a hoaxer, and that Larue himself had played a role in the hoax.[2] The purpose: to demonstrate the shoddy research of Sun International Pictures.

It should not have taken 19 years to prove Sun International did shoddy films. They also did movies on UFO's, Nostradamus, etc. that were equally cheaply produced. But it was the 1970's, and there was an interest in that kind of stuff back then.

 

[JoeB131]

[

This is very true. However the Democrats are just as culpable (if not more so) by their effort to bring everyone to the same level. It is far more difficult to elevate people...far more. So they take the easy route and take everybody down to the lowest common denominator.

Taxes and fuel and energy prices are destroying the middle class while you watch.

Guy, this is the lamest argument yet. Taxes on fuel are used to pay for the roads to use the cars on.

If energy prices are going up, it's becuase China and India are rushing to live like Americans, which means we are just wasting the fuel even faster.

 

[Hollie]

They haven't found Jimmy Hoffa's body either, but that doesn't mean he's not dead.

You do realize that such an attempted analogy is pretty silly, right?

Not if your post was an attempt to discredit Noah's ark.

If it wasn't? Well....ya win some, ya lose some!

I dont have a need or desire to discredit such tales and fables. The stories discredit themselves.

I do think it's a shame that people will exploit the fears and superstitions of those who have a willingness to believe such tales and fables as literal fact.

You're familiar with the "saying" attributed to P.T. Barnum?

 

[LittleNipper]

You do realize that such an attempted analogy is pretty silly, right?

Not if your post was an attempt to discredit Noah's ark.

If it wasn't? Well....ya win some, ya lose some!

I dont have a need or desire to discredit such tales and fables. The stories discredit themselves.

I do think it's a shame that people will exploit the fears and superstitions of those who have a willingness to believe such tales and fables as literal fact.

You're familiar with the "saying" attributed to P.T. Barnum?

The bible stories do not discredit themselves. Each is filled with details that would be meaningless if they were fiction and yet make perfect sense in the context of the unfolding biblical narritive. It is the details and interconnections that sets the Bible apart from fiction. Reaffirmed by Jesus Himself --- Jesus spoke far ahead of his time relating to us what life would be just prior to his coming. He says in Matt. 24:37-38: “But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,”

 

[Hollie]

Not if your post was an attempt to discredit Noah's ark.

If it wasn't? Well....ya win some, ya lose some!

I dont have a need or desire to discredit such tales and fables. The stories discredit themselves.

I do think it's a shame that people will exploit the fears and superstitions of those who have a willingness to believe such tales and fables as literal fact.

You're familiar with the "saying" attributed to P.T. Barnum?

The bible stories do not discredit themselves. Each is filled with details that would be meaningless if they were fiction and yet make perfect sense in the context of the unfolding biblical narritive. It is the details and interconnections that sets the Bible apart from fiction.

I suppose with creative interpretation, you can make the tales and fables mean whatever you wish them to mean. One reason that religions splinter into so many sects and subdivisions is because there is rarely agreement on those interpretations.

As to Arks, men walking on water, men rising from the dead, believe all or part of it. You will find, however, that even in these threads, there is disagreement as to what is literal and what is to be taken as allegory.

The gods have spoken and I will be the final arbiter.