Are cells conscious?

[scruffy]

This idea has been circulating for some time now.

Humans in their infinite arrogance have claimed repeatedly (in history) an exclusive on consciousness.

But science has proven repeatedly that this is not the case. (See for example, animal psychophysics, which is quantitative).

Now we know (as of last year) that DNA itself operates at the quantum level. There is both entanglement and tunneling in and along nucleotides.

Do Cells Have Sentience? New Framework For Understanding Life And Consciousness

This book argues for sentience at the level of cell or even in pre-cell form of matter.

swarajyamag.com

 

[Oddball]

There are documented cases of people (for example) who've been total health nuts getting an organ transplant, then developing cravings for junk food....So there's something hinky going on.

 

[Godboy]

This idea has been circulating for some time now.

Humans in their infinite arrogance have claimed repeatedly (in history) an exclusive on consciousness.

But science has proven repeatedly that this is not the case. (See for example, animal psychophysics, which is quantitative).

Now we know (as of last year) that DNA itself operates at the quantum level. There is both entanglement and tunneling in and along nucleotides.

Do Cells Have Sentience? New Framework For Understanding Life And Consciousness

This book argues for sentience at the level of cell or even in pre-cell form of matter.

swarajyamag.com

I dont think you can label it as such if the things brain power is limited to just enough to perform its basic functions as an organism. Can we call snail "sentient" (maybe by the most clinical definition)? If not a snail, then definitely not a cell.

If it isnt self aware, then it doesnt matter, as far as im concerned.

 

[scruffy]

I dont think you can label it as such if the things brain power is limited to just enough to perform its basic functions as an organism. Can we call snail "sentient" (maybe by the most clinical definition)? If not a snail, then definitely not a cell.

If it isnt self aware, then it doesnt matter, as far as im concerned.

A snail brain is actually very sophisticated, as studied by the famous neuroscientist Eric Kandel.

There are about 50,000 neurons in y'r average snail brain. Not a lot, but enough to establish a topology.

Snails exhibit true behavioral learning. They're not hard to train, either.

 

[Godboy]

A snail brain is actually very sophisticated, as studied by the famous neuroscientist Eric Kandel.

There are about 50,000 neurons in y'r average snail brain. Not a lot, but enough to establish a topology.

Snails exhibit true behavioral learning. They're not hard to train, either.

Yeah, not really though. One study doesnt unravel the history of dumb snails slithering to their death across hot pavement.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

This idea has been circulating for some time now.

Humans in their infinite arrogance have claimed repeatedly (in history) an exclusive on consciousness.

But science has proven repeatedly that this is not the case. (See for example, animal psychophysics, which is quantitative).

Now we know (as of last year) that DNA itself operates at the quantum level. There is both entanglement and tunneling in and along nucleotides.

Do Cells Have Sentience? New Framework For Understanding Life And Consciousness

This book argues for sentience at the level of cell or even in pre-cell form of matter.

swarajyamag.com

Animal psychophysics: The study of sensation in nonverbal organisms?

Okay

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Art. Looking up at the sky and wondering. Consciousness of self.

People are always misunderstanding things.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

This idea has been circulating for some time now.

Humans in their infinite arrogance have claimed repeatedly (in history) an exclusive on consciousness.

But science has proven repeatedly that this is not the case. (See for example, animal psychophysics, which is quantitative).

Now we know (as of last year) that DNA itself operates at the quantum level. There is both entanglement and tunneling in and along nucleotides.

Do Cells Have Sentience? New Framework For Understanding Life And Consciousness

This book argues for sentience at the level of cell or even in pre-cell form of matter.

swarajyamag.com

Is AI conscious in your assumptions?

 

[scruffy]

Art. Looking up at the sky and wondering. Consciousness of self.

People are always misunderstanding things.

Question: Are humans the only self-aware species?

(caution, government study and website)
A basic level of self-awareness is confirmed to be present in non-human animals that conclusively pass the mirror test, but it is unknown if this can be extended to include their knowledge of internal thoughts and emotions.

Sociality and self-awareness in animals

Recognizing one’s mirror reflection appears to be a simple task, but beyond humans, few animals have demonstrated this capability. Mirror self-recognition is indicative of self-awareness, which is one’s capacity for self-directed knowledge. ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I suppose you've never heard of mirror NEURONS, have you?

These are present in just about all vertebrates, and even some invertebrates. Certainly cats, which are only slightly social - and rats.

Mirror neurons in the rat anterior cingulate cortex mirror the EMOTIONS of other rats. Which goes well beyond simple physical recognition.

Emotional Mirror Neurons in the Rat’s Anterior Cingulate Cortex

How do the emotions of others affect us? The human anterior cingulate cortex (ACC) responds while experiencing pain in the self and witnessing pain in others, but the underlying cellular mechanisms remain poorly understood. Here we show the rat ACC (area 24) ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

...

 

[scruffy]

And besides:

These fish can recognize themselves in photos, hinting at self-awareness

Cleaner fish recognize themselves in mirrors and photos, suggesting that far more animals may be self-aware than previously thought.

www.sciencenews.org

 

[Care4all]

Is this theory for just cells in animals, or for cells in a living tree as well?

 

[DudleySmith]

Is this theory for just cells in animals, or for cells in a living tree as well?

Doesn't matter, leftists and faggots will want to kill them all anyway. It's what they enjoy, especially babies.

 

[Care4all]

Doesn't matter, leftists and faggots will want to kill them all anyway. It's what they enjoy, especially babies.

You're being silly!

 

[scruffy]

Is this theory for just cells in animals, or for cells in a living tree as well?

Great question.

Since we don't know the mechanisms yet, I can't answer.

What I know is, sentience requires a change of basis from allocentric to egocentric. It's much like a perspective transformation in computer graphics.

There are many ways to accomplish it, but for living things it amounts to this: in any cell there are sensory events and motor events, and the ego center is in between. A simple feedback loop might suffice with the right infrastructure.

 

[scruffy]

This is an interesting topic, which science is just beginning to study.

This is one of the important papers, from 3 years ago:

Memory-making involves extensive DNA breaking

To provide access to genes needed for the encoding and storage of memories, brain cells snap open their DNA, breaking both strands. A new study finds this happens more extensively than previously realized and it occurs not only in neurons but other supporting cell types.

news.mit.edu

But there is also a bottom up approach from this year:

DNA as a perfect quantum computer based on the quantum physics principles - Scientific Reports

DNA is a complex multi-resolution molecule whose theoretical study is a challenge. Its intrinsic multiscale nature requires chemistry and quantum physics to understand the structure and quantum informatics to explain its operation as a perfect quantum computer. Here, we present theoretical...

www.nature.com

Quantum mechanisms are older and simpler than the sophisticated stuff in a human brain. DNA is known to use both entanglement and tunneling. The requirement is that the memory persist during the amount of time through the feedback loop. For example - the MIT group studied fear in mice. In a single cell, if there is an "attack" resulting in a chemical signal inside the cell, and the cell responds with motility or any other form of defense, the memory must persist between the sensory event and the motor event. Looked at this way, the "event" may not actually be the trans-membrane signalling, it might be what happens in the nucleus afterwards. And similarly, the motor event may be the resulting change in nucleotide conformation, in which case the required memory duration may be very short.

 

[Cougarbear]

A snail brain is actually very sophisticated, as studied by the famous neuroscientist Eric Kandel.

There are about 50,000 neurons in y'r average snail brain. Not a lot, but enough to establish a topology.

Snails exhibit true behavioral learning. They're not hard to train, either.

Try ants. They are incredible creatures. They obviously are aware of where they are and their surroundings.

 

[ding]

This idea has been circulating for some time now.

Humans in their infinite arrogance have claimed repeatedly (in history) an exclusive on consciousness.

But science has proven repeatedly that this is not the case. (See for example, animal psychophysics, which is quantitative).

Now we know (as of last year) that DNA itself operates at the quantum level. There is both entanglement and tunneling in and along nucleotides.

Do Cells Have Sentience? New Framework For Understanding Life And Consciousness

This book argues for sentience at the level of cell or even in pre-cell form of matter.

swarajyamag.com

Consciousness? No. Sentience? Yes. At least to some degree as they can sense their surroundings and respond to their surroundings. It's actually a characteristic of living things.

 

[scruffy]

Consciousness? No. Sentience? Yes. At least to some degree as they can sense their surroundings and respond to their surroundings. It's actually a characteristic of living things.

Interesting statement.

What is the difference between consciousness and sentience?

 

[scruffy]

Consciousness? No. Sentience? Yes. At least to some degree as they can sense their surroundings and respond to their surroundings. It's actually a characteristic of living things.

As I just mentioned in the other thread, it is also a characteristic of every entangled pair.

("Pair" being a deliberate euphemism for purposes of discussion, since we already know both "members" are part of the same wave function).

Here is today's exercise for Scruffy 101.

Describe the (relativistic) "reference frame" for the entangled pair.

Since there's only one wave function, there can be only one reference frame. Correct?