Assault rifles for self defense

[bayoubill]

I wonder if the German people ever thought their government or military would turn on them before the rise of Hitler and the Nazis?

Wow, you are sick bastard.

You just compared OUR beloved military to pre-1939 Nazi troops.

OUR TROOPS would not do that. OUR TROOPS would not do what the Nazis did.

I find it incredibly offensive that you would make that argument.

My history may be a little rusty... but, as I recall, the regular German armed forces (the Wehrmacht) at the time were, by and large, not members of the Nazi party, and were largely disdainful of Hitler... but, since they were professional, disciplined soldiers, and Hitler was the leader of the country, they saw little choice but to follow his lead...

btw, because of their restiveness, Hitler didn't trust the regular armed forces... and, in response, created his own designated armed forces from Nazi party loyalists... the Waffen SS... which often was at odds with the regular German armed forces...

 

[WillowTree]

Are we arming the Syrian people to fight the government? Is the Syrian military protecting the civillians? Should there be gun control in Syria? How about Egypt?

Hell, how about Mexico?

 

[eots]

perhapes Israelis would also be much safer with a gun ban and taking the guns out of school.. they can just call 911 if there is an incident

 

[NYcarbineer]

Ban all guns?

Who on USMB is the OP talking to?

 

[bayoubill]

I can easily understand why alotta folks think it's inconceivable that our government would ever become so out-of-control repressive that we, as a people, would be driven to the point where we seriously considered taking up arms in rebellion...

but who knows what the political landscape will be, say, 50 years from now...?


I 'spect that the colonial folks in 1726 wouldn't, in their wildest dreams, have been able to imagine that, 50 years hence, their children and grandchildren would rise up in armed insurrection against the Crown...


In the current ongoing debate regarding the 2nd Amendment, it is important to remember it's original purpose...

to remember why the framers thought the right to arms was important enough to insert it in the Bill of Rights, just after the right to speak your mind...

and it is up to us to insure that future generations... our progeny, yours and mine... will still have the protections against the prospect of a tyrannical government afforded by the 2nd Amendment...

One of the few sane responses who actually did what I asked: Justify WHY, rather than blabber on about nonsense.

Oh, and you did NOT compare our troops to pre1939 Nazi troops, like one right wing lunatic did.

thank you, buc...

btw, I appreciate the thoughtful, measured quality of your OP...

 

[Samson]

But...I dont fear our military instilling tyranny on me. They'd never do that. I dont know why so many nutjobs out there think they would. And NO COUNTRY will ever invade the US. Not possible.

Never say never.

One Word.

Waco:

 

[healthmyths]

Ban all guns?

Who on USMB is the OP talking to?

It is far past time to call for a total ban on guns. And if it takes a constitutional amendment, so be it.
Forget the assault weapons ban, it's time to ban guns completely

Yes, Really, Ban All the Guns
Yes, Really, Ban All The Guns | The New Republic

Ban all guns, now--Nobody needs to have a handgun in America — period
http://metrotimes.com/columns/ban-all-guns-now-1.1418281

Want to go on as there are more columns of ignorant pinheads calling for BANNING ALL GUNS!!

 

[Dick Tuck]

I can easily understand why alotta folks think it's inconceivable that our government would ever become so out-of-control repressive that we, as a people, would be driven to the point where we seriously considered taking up arms in rebellion...

but who knows what the political landscape will be, say, 50 years from now...?


I 'spect that the colonial folks in 1726 wouldn't, in their wildest dreams, have been able to imagine that, 50 years hence, their children and grandchildren would rise up in armed insurrection against the Crown...


In the current ongoing debate regarding the 2nd Amendment, it is important to remember it's original purpose...

to remember why the framers thought the right to arms was important enough to insert it in the Bill of Rights, just after the right to speak your mind...

and it is up to us to insure that future generations... our progeny, yours and mine... will still have the protections against the prospect of a tyrannical government afforded by the 2nd Amendment...

In the here and now, I'm more concerned about the fringe loons and their ever increasing firearms as a much greater threat than government.

 

[bayoubill]

But...I dont fear our military instilling tyranny on me. They'd never do that. I dont know why so many nutjobs out there think they would. And NO COUNTRY will ever invade the US. Not possible.

Never say never.

One Word.

Waco:

point of order: the Waco siege wasn't carried out by regular US armed forces...

but rather by an entirely separate armed wing of the US government... the FBI...


which, btw, now that I think about it, sorta reminds me of the stuff I described in a post I made earlier...

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...-you-need-an-assault-rifle-2.html#post6539106

 

[9thIDdoc]

I am a lifetime hunter and shooter and have experience with most types of small arms and other types of arms designed for use by the individual. In the Army i qualified expert with the M-16A1 and 1911A1 pistol both of which I carried in combat in Vietnam. At various times I instructed in their use, acted as armorer, and functioned as the capt. of a small rifle/pistol team. I consider myself very knowlegable about firearms and some other weapons.

The problem with "assault weapons" legislation is there just ain't no such critter except for made up definions that vary widely and none of which make much sense. Why? Because the majority of the people deciding on regulations have no clue what they are talking about. And because of that people that use firarms are scared spitless all kinds of things will end up banned by well meaning but unintentional mistakes in wording or tech. ignorence.

I have used actual assault rifles and-like any other weapon-they have strong points and weak points but they are not "inately" the most lethal type of weapon around. A hunting shotgun will do anything a M-16 will do at closer ranges and the average deer rifle is more powerful and accurate at med. to long ranges.

 

[Dick Tuck]

But...I dont fear our military instilling tyranny on me. They'd never do that. I dont know why so many nutjobs out there think they would. And NO COUNTRY will ever invade the US. Not possible.

Never say never.

One Word.

Waco:

Yep, there are religious suicide cults out there. Nothing new.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Ban all guns?

Who on USMB is the OP talking to?

It is far past time to call for a total ban on guns. And if it takes a constitutional amendment, so be it.
Forget the assault weapons ban, it's time to ban guns completely

Yes, Really, Ban All the Guns
Yes, Really, Ban All The Guns | The New Republic

Ban all guns, now--Nobody needs to have a handgun in America — period
http://metrotimes.com/columns/ban-all-guns-now-1.1418281

Want to go on as there are more columns of ignorant pinheads calling for BANNING ALL GUNS!!

Ok, so you admit your thread isn't really applicable to anyone here. It's just another rant by you.

 

[Dick Tuck]

Ban all guns?

Who on USMB is the OP talking to?

It is far past time to call for a total ban on guns. And if it takes a constitutional amendment, so be it.
Forget the assault weapons ban, it's time to ban guns completely

Yes, Really, Ban All the Guns
Yes, Really, Ban All The Guns | The New Republic

Ban all guns, now--Nobody needs to have a handgun in America — period
http://metrotimes.com/columns/ban-all-guns-now-1.1418281

Want to go on as there are more columns of ignorant pinheads calling for BANNING ALL GUNS!!

You're a batshit loon. Stuff your strawman up your shit crusted ass.

 

[jillian]

Do you understand WHAT pawns you are?
Every day you idiots that favor BANNING ALL GUNS... make decisions that have been shaped because of advertising.
You idiots are total creatures of classic Pavlovian behavior modification. "Behavior modification" first identified by Pavlov who won the Nobel Prize for physiology in 1904 has been around a long time and you "ban the guns" idiots don't seem to know that!
You make decisions like "ban the guns" based totally on politically driven advertising and media content!

YET you totally discount the role "violence" in movies and video games have triggered especially with totally pliable young minds of 20 years like Lanza! You laugh at the fact these games have molded behavior i.e. like Pavlov's dogs!
YET explain to me why with machine guns available in the early 20th century WHEN there was NOT the violence in Movies and NO video games at that time?

The NRA has been around since 1871... so how come TODAY they are vilified?

The NRA does NOT produce any movies/videos glorifying KILLING people like Tarantino's 'Django Unchained' excessive killings!
Yet the Tarantinos of movie world are glorified AND EVERY ONE of you "ban the gun" idiots support them!!!

Disgusting!!!

who wants to "ban all guns"?

any more lies you'd like to post?

 

[bucs90]

What if four people invade your home and kill your wife and children! Don't let the libtards tell you that doesn't happen cause it does.

As I said, from working before as a cop in a very dangerous city in ATL, and just raw crime stats, stuff like what you mentioned is VERY rare. The only times there are 3 or more intruders is almost 99% of the time involving drug dealers robbing each other. I dont deal drugs, so Im not worried about a large group of intruders.

But...lets play. Lets say it did happen. And 4-6 people invaded. And I have a wife and 2 kids in the house.

An AK47 or M4/AR15 bullet will GO THROUGH the person, and the walls. It will penetrate very deeply and, especially on non-hits, will go right through walls. Thus, endangering my wife and kids from MY OWN ROUNDS.

A .45 hollow point wont do that. It expands on impact, by design, and thus making it a far better (and safer) home defense weapon.

I'd love to see some links of families murdered by 4 or more intruders in which the motive was NOT drug dealers being robbed.

It's no skin off my nose if you choose to just sit there and do nothing. I'm glad I married a real man.

A "real man" would know:

- A .223 bullet, fired from most assault rifles, is just that...a .22 caliber bullet, very small, with extremely high velocity, thus leaving a hole but maybe not stopping the bad guy. **Thats why US troops have complained about it's common lack of stopping power, and many have shifted to the far less common 6.8.

Meaning, it'll go right through the guy, and then through the wall, and possibly hit you and your kid along with the bad guy.

- A .45 hollow point is designed to expand and fragment internally after impact, expand internally, and release ALL its power inside the body, rather than penetrate and go through a wall. Its why cops carry those on their belts for close quarter encounters.

So, if your real man fires at intruders with an AR15, and bullet go through the wall and towards you, or your neighbor, or hits the bad guy but doesnt actually stop the guy because of the small bullet/high penetration performance of the .223........well, now you know why.

Assault rifles are for long distance, and very high numbers of enemy targets. .45's are for the shithead that breaks into the house.

 

[bucs90]

I wonder if the German people ever thought their government or military would turn on them before the rise of Hitler and the Nazis?

Wow, you are sick bastard.

You just compared OUR beloved military to pre-1939 Nazi troops.

OUR TROOPS would not do that. OUR TROOPS would not do what the Nazis did.

I find it incredibly offensive that you would make that argument.

I did no such thing I asked a question about what the German people thought possible before the rise of Hitler and the Nazis. To make a comparison I would have had to list things the that Nazi troops did and then things our military has done that are the same are comparable which I did not. If you don't know the difference between asking a question and making a comparison you are truly one stupid son of a bitch.

If this thread was in a history forum about European wars, you'd have a point.

Its not. It was a question about, with our incredibly powerful and noble military, who in my opinion would NEVER turn on it's own people who love them so much.....why would one need a weapon of war? We have no threat of invasion, and no threat of our own military turning on us.

You responded by asking if the German people felt they had nothing to fear from the rising Nazi party.

You implied that current day Americans were similar to 1930's Germans, before their military turned on them and they couldnt fight back.

YOU...just compared our modern day situation to that of the Nazi led German military turning on it's own people.

SO......you believe our Marines and soldiers could one day act like the Nazis did? You implied just that, you sick fuck.

 

[occupied]

Your theory that people are clueless is incorrect, you were in the military, what did they tell you about the auto/semi setting on your M16? They told you that except for a situation where squad suppressing fire was needed you kept it and used it on semi. In this sense there is no difference between military models and semi only civilian models. Not in favor of banning them but this distinction is much the same as people calling everything left of Limbaugh "communism" a disingenuous redefinition that has nothing to do with accuracy and everything to do with politics. As far as I am concerned any compact rifle with a pistol grip and high capacity magazines delivering rifle ammunition is an assault rifle. Don't like my definition? Don't bother trying to explain why I am wrong because I don't like your definition either.

 

[Meister]

Merged

 

[bucs90]

But...I dont fear our military instilling tyranny on me. They'd never do that. I dont know why so many nutjobs out there think they would. And NO COUNTRY will ever invade the US. Not possible.

Never say never.

One Word.

Waco:

point of order: the Waco siege wasn't carried out by regular US armed forces...

but rather by an entirely separate armed wing of the US government... the FBI...


which, btw, now that I think about it, sorta reminds me of the stuff I described in a post I made earlier...

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...-you-need-an-assault-rifle-2.html#post6539106

Ah, Waco is a great argument. And once again, this is among the few sane arguments anyone has posted on this thread.

So...Waco. Yep, the Feds have turned many of their agencies into paramilitary type groups, with tanks, assault rifles, high level tactical training. BUT...so have local and state SWAT teams. Nothing new there. As society becomes more globalized and dangerous, the Andy Griffith style of policing is gonna fade away.

So, you bring up a very interesting argument. Our miltary, in my opinion, would NEVER turn on the people. And, I dont think local and state police (as a whole, not regarding the bad apple individuals) would either.

But the massive Federal agencies? They are huge, well funded, well trained, well armed. But...those are humans also. THey have families, friends, etc, in the community. They have kids in the same schools we do. But unlike the military, they can act on US soil without martial law, and they supercede the local and state cops, who would likely be far more emotionally tied to the local people.

I personally dont think the FBI, ATF, DEA, etc, are wicked agencies full of evil men. Most are former local cops who applied. I do think they have corrupt politicians directing them, and sometimes they may be doing what they THINK is a noble action, but behind covers of bullshit there are higher-ups with bad motives.

And that is one legit argument. Not to "fight back", but to simply have a well armed population, so that those honest men and women of the Federal Law Enforcement agencies ONLY act on causes they really believe are for the good of the country, because there is always the chance of a Waco happening, and if it does, it better be a worthy cause.

Prevent beaurocratic bullying perhaps?

Which is why no one will EVER confiscate our guns. Ever. The military wont do it. The cops wont do it. Never gonna happen.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Merged

It's about time. damn this was hard keeping up with all the gun threads.
Maybe a new board might be in order
second amendment or guns nut and grabbers of America.