At what point will Americans stop buying stuff?

[Hum Dinger]

All the unions did was force employers to overpay workers. That doesn't mean squat. The only involvement government had in wages is the minimum wage which is also pretty stupid when you think of it; a dog and pony show to try and buy votes.

Cheating a worker is telling the worker you will pay them $15.00 an hour, and when you start working for them, pay you only $14.00 an hour. That's cheating because you were under the agreement of making $15.00 an hour. But when a person accepts a job for $10.00 an hour, and he or she is paid $10.00 an hour, nobody is cheated because you both lived up to your end of the agreement.

Now, I'm sure you want to respond by saying "but nobody will pay this guy more than $10.00 an hour so he has no choice but to take the job!" That would be wrong because this person does have a choice. Learn a trade or get into a career where you are worth more money.

That's nice coming from a guy that lived with his parents and was only able to save for training because his parents were supporting him (Or did your parents directly pay for the training). Not everyone has mommy and daddy to take care of them.

It's the workers that create the wealth - so workers deserve to be paid on par with the wealth they create. The only time Unions force employers to overpay is when the employer HAS to shutdown - which almost never happens.

If a worker does $100k worth of productive work in a year, then they deserve the lion's share of that money. The employer should still make a profit.

Your attitude that employers should pay as little as they can get away with, and employees should just 'better' themselves doesn't work. It just gives employers incentive to drive wages down - and to pay even highly skilled and educated workers next to nothing.

Ultimately, it's people like you that cause communist revolutions.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

The percentage of people that get lung cancer from smoking is way higher than the percentage of people that are mass murderers and who have smoked pot.
Comparing the 2 is idiotic.

Just because some psychotic people have smoked pot does not mean that pot causes psychosis.

The latest polls show that just about half of all Americans have tried pot, and a very large number smoke habitually.

Nearly Half of U.S. Adults Have Tried Marijuana

The percentage of Americans who have tried marijuana has increased to a new high of 49%, as younger generations have been more likely than older generations to have tried it.

news.gallup.com

If it were true that pot causes people to become psychotic murders, then there would be mass murders in every town in the U.S. everyday.

Statistically, it would be easier to prove that men who don't shave regularly are highly likely to become psychotic murderers.

You have predetermined bias on this subject, with no experience or knowledge at all. Anyone that has experience smoking pot, or knowing people who smoke pot would laugh at your assertions.

I've known NYPD officers that told me that they wish everyone in NYC would smoke pot - because it makes people peaceful and docile which is what every police officer wants.

Pot causes psychosis. I never suggested that pot-mass murderers were as frequent as smoking-lung-cancer victims. But the percentage of those who have problems with pot is comparable. Police advocating for pot is an ignorant rationalization.
Why do you potheads have such difficulty accepting what you don’t want to know?
Why are you so willing to put others at risk?

 

[Hum Dinger]

Pot causes psychosis. I never suggested that pot-mass murderers were as frequent as smoking-lung-cancer victims. But the percentage of those who have problems with pot is comparable. Police advocating for pot is an ignorant rationalization.
Why do you potheads have such difficulty accepting what you don’t want to know?
Why are you so willing to put others at risk?

Here's an example of over 400,000 pot smokers that were together for over 3 days straight and did absolutely no violence.

If that many people can be together for 4 days straight without significant violence, it proves that your assertions are pure BULLSHIT!

Do you think that 400,000 drunks could do the same?

Woodstock - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

That's nice coming from a guy that lived with his parents and was only able to save for training because his parents were supporting him (Or did your parents directly pay for the training). Not everyone has mommy and daddy to take care of them.

It's the workers that create the wealth - so workers deserve to be paid on par with the wealth they create. The only time Unions force employers to overpay is when the employer HAS to shutdown - which almost never happens.

If a worker does $100k worth of productive work in a year, then they deserve the lion's share of that money. The employer should still make a profit.

Your attitude that employers should pay as little as they can get away with, and employees should just 'better' themselves doesn't work. It just gives employers incentive to drive wages down - and to pay even highly skilled and educated workers next to nothing.

Ultimately, it's people like you that cause communist revolutions.

For one, I learned how to driver T/T on my own 15 years after leaving my parents home when I was 20. The prior ten years I spent in medical driving a van. When I decided I wanted better, I took the time to make myself better by getting my Class B to drive straight truck again. From there I upgraded to T/T all on my own with no help from anybody.

As I told you earlier, an employee IS NOT ENTITLED TO SHARE profits of a company unless they have profit sharing benefits. If you want to profit by how much work you do, that's called piece work: you get paid according to how much you produce. If you don't want to do physical work and still get paid by what you produce, you go into sales.

Employees do not make the profit for the company. It's the employer who buys or leases the facility, it's the employer that took the chance of losing everything or becoming a success. It's the employer who finds the work, sells the products or services he or she created. It's the employer that pays the property tax, maintains the building and property, buys all the equipment and office supplies, hires a payroll company and certified CPA to figure out all tax liabilities, pays for unemployment and workman's compensation benefits. The worker merely does the work and not entitled to anything the employer created.

 

[Hum Dinger]

For one, I learned how to driver T/T on my own 15 years after leaving my parents home when I was 20. The prior ten years I spent in medical driving a van. When I decided I wanted better, I took the time to make myself better by getting my Class B to drive straight truck again. From there I upgraded to T/T all on my own with no help from anybody.

As I told you earlier, an employee IS NOT ENTITLED TO SHARE profits of a company unless they have profit sharing benefits. If you want to profit by how much work you do, that's called piece work: you get paid according to how much you produce. If you don't want to do physical work and still get paid by what you produce, you go into sales.

Employees do not make the profit for the company. It's the employer who buys or leases the facility, it's the employer that took the chance of losing everything or becoming a success. It's the employer who finds the work, sells the products or services he or she created. It's the employer that pays the property tax, maintains the building and property, buys all the equipment and office supplies, hires a payroll company and certified CPA to figure out all tax liabilities, pays for unemployment and workman's compensation benefits. The worker merely does the work and not entitled to anything the employer created.

We're all aware that there are business expenses, which are not considered part of the profit, and of the risks of doing business (which are minimal if the employer does his due diligence).

Employees should be entitled to pay on par with the real value of their work. Perhaps Federally mandated universal profit sharing would be the fairest way.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

We're all aware that there are business expenses, which are not considered part of the profit, and of the risks of doing business (which are minimal if the employer does his due diligence).

Employees should be entitled to pay on par with the real value of their work. Perhaps Federally mandated universal profit sharing would be the fairest way.

Or the employee can buy stock in the company on their own.

Your value as an employee is not by how much profit your work made because you don't sell that work, your employer does. Your value is based on what your employer can pay another person do the same job and same quality of work that you do. When there are a lot of people that can do your job, supply and demand comes into play. Your value is worth less even if the employer is making a million dollars a year on your work.

It's like when I went to electronics school when I was younger. Working six days a week and going to school at night got real old real fast. So I asked my instructor how much I would make if I stayed for the year and got (what they had at the time) an FCC license? He told me about 16K a year. I followed up with what if I stayed 2 years and got my associates degree? He told me about 18K. Hell, I was making more than that on the job I had at the time.

So how is it there was such low pay for a field that required 2 years of education? Because back in the early 80's, everybody and their mother wanted to get into electronics. When I looked at the want ads in the paper (long before the internet) there were no jobs for an electronics tech. So I dropped out of the school. I ran into a former student of mine several years later. He installed my cable television. He said he wishes he did the same thing I did.

 

[Hum Dinger]

Or the employee can buy stock in the company on their own.

Your value as an employee is not by how much profit your work made because you don't sell that work, your employer does. Your value is based on what your employer can pay another person do the same job and same quality of work that you do. When there are a lot of people that can do your job, supply and demand comes into play. Your value is worth less even if the employer is making a million dollars a year on your work.

It's like when I went to electronics school when I was younger. Working six days a week and going to school at night got real old real fast. So I asked my instructor how much I would make if I stayed for the year and got (what they had at the time) an FCC license? He told me about 16K a year. I followed up with what if I stayed 2 years and got my associates degree? He told me about 18K. Hell, I was making more than that on the job I had at the time.

So how is it there was such low pay for a field that required 2 years of education? Because back in the early 80's, everybody and their mother wanted to get into electronics. When I looked at the want ads in the paper (long before the internet) there were no jobs for an electronics tech. So I dropped out of the school. I ran into a former student of mine several years later. He installed my cable television. He said he wishes he did the same thing I did.

How can an employee buy stock in the company when they get paid next to nothing?

I saw the bottom drop out of the electronics field as well. Vocational schools were churning out people that didn't know a damn thing about electronic beyond change a PCB and soldering. Employers used them as a excuse to pay people who really knew electronics next to nothing.

According to your way of thinking, for people to survive, no matter how hard they work or how productive they are, everyone must get an advanced degree. Then we'll be a society of nothing but theoretical physicists, lawyers and professors. How will that go? No essential workers at all.

Of course at that point theoretical physicists, lawyers and professors will get paid shit.

Soceity NEEDS it's ditch diggers!!!

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

How can an employee buy stock in the company when they get paid next to nothing?

I saw the bottom drop out of the electronics field as well. Vocational schools were churning out people that didn't know a damn thing about electronic beyond change a PCB and soldering. Employers used them as a excuse to pay people who really knew electronics next to nothing.

According to your way of thinking, for people to survive, no matter how hard they work or how productive they are, everyone must get an advanced degree. Then we'll be a society of nothing but theoretical physicists, lawyers and professors. How will that go? No essential workers at all.

Of course at that point theoretical physicists, lawyers and professors will get paid shit.

Soceity NEEDS it's ditch diggers!!!

I never said that at all. Why are you putting words in my posts that I never wrote?

There mare plenty of jobs around that you can learn in a year or less. You can find truck driving schools that will have you licensed in about a month and guarantee you a job. It's only a few thousand bucks you should be able to payoff the loan in about two months, but people won't take the time to do it. Welding is another decent profession. I understand HVAC technicians make pretty good money. Plumbing is another one. Did you ever hire a plumber before?

The problem is people don't want to give up dope to get a decent paying job. They expect to do monkey jobs the rest of their lives and make outstanding money. At some point you have to wake up out of that dream world of yours and realize it's never going to happen because employers compete domestically and internationally and they simply can't pay everybody great wages and stay in business.

That's why the only solution to making better money is making yourself worth more money because your union world left a long time ago and it's never coming back.

 

[initforme]

I never said that at all. Why are you putting words in my posts that I never wrote?

There mare plenty of jobs around that you can learn in a year or less. You can find truck driving schools that will have you licensed in about a month and guarantee you a job. It's only a few thousand bucks you should be able to payoff the loan in about two months, but people won't take the time to do it. Welding is another decent profession. I understand HVAC technicians make pretty good money. Plumbing is another one. Did you ever hire a plumber before?

The problem is people don't want to give up dope to get a decent paying job. They expect to do monkey jobs the rest of their lives and make outstanding money. At some point you have to wake up out of that dream world of yours and realize it's never going to happen because employers compete domestically and internationally and they simply can't pay everybody great wages and stay in business.

That's why the only solution to making better money is making yourself worth more money because your union world left a long time ago and it's never coming back.

If they can't pay great wages then they have no business complaining that nobody wants to work anymore. That has never been more UNTRUE

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

If they can't pay great wages then they have no business complaining that nobody wants to work anymore. That has never been more UNTRUE

And if they pay great wages are you going to buy their products? Fuck no. You're going to do what most every American does and find those cheap Chinese products that save you money.