Baseball HOF anomalies

[Xenophon]

I don't know man...I go by the ERA first.

I'll take the guy with a 2.5 era and 100 wins over the guy with a 4.5 era and 300 wins any day of the week.

Therein is teh entire point.

Remove those 7 years and you have an average pitcher at best.

11 years of ho-hum.

That isn't a HoFer, no matter what he did in that small window.

 

[Paulie]

I don't understand why wins are so important in deciding a pitcher's overall worth.

If you have high K's, and low ERA, but don't win 20 games, how many times could it possibly be YOUR fault?

What if you were taken out with guys on, and the reliever gave up more runs?

What if the bullpen just blew it sometimes?

If you are striking guys out, and not giving up runs, you are doing your job. There are 8 other guys who have to contribute to the rest of the game.

It's not such a quandry. One would have to literally go over every scorecard from every game where he didn't get 20 wins but had high K's and low ERA, to figure out who's MOST to blame.

Just sayin,

 

[Andrew2382]

I remember the 94 expos were doing great till the strike happened...as were the 94 yankees

 

[Andrew2382]

I don't know man...I go by the ERA first.

I'll take the guy with a 2.5 era and 100 wins over the guy with a 4.5 era and 300 wins any day of the week.

Therein is teh entire point.

Remove those 7 years and you have an average pitcher at best.

11 years of ho-hum.

That isn't a HoFer, no matter what he did in that small window.

yeah but xeno

his CAREER era is under 3

thats fantastic

 

[Andrew2382]

omg

I can;t believe I'm actually defending Pedro Martinez

I feel sick

 

[Xenophon]

Guys, LOOK AT HIS STATS.

Average pitcher for TWO THIRDS of his career.

You want to put the guy in the hall who 2/3 of his career was nothing.

 

[Modbert]

omg

I can;t believe I'm actually defending Pedro Martinez

I feel sick

Pedro's numbers are excellent. He had virtually no run support for years. He would of had 300 wins possibly if not for crappy relievers and no run support.

He led the league many times in ERA and strikeouts.

 

[del]

omg

I can;t believe I'm actually defending Pedro Martinez

I feel sick

i was wondering when you'd notice.

a long strange trip......

 

[Xenophon]

You guys need perspective, THIS is a first round HoFer:

Tom Seaver Statistics and History - Baseball-Reference.com

Notice Tom terrific's ERA is LOWER then Pedro's, he played on teams that didn't hit, one a WS title, 3 Cy youngs, Rookie of the year.

 

[Andrew2382]

omg

I can;t believe I'm actually defending Pedro Martinez

I feel sick

i was wondering when you'd notice.

a long strange trip......

lol....yeah I;m done defending him

in fact

fuck him

rat bastard

 

[del]

omg

I can;t believe I'm actually defending Pedro Martinez

I feel sick

i was wondering when you'd notice.

a long strange trip......

lol....yeah I;m done defending him

in fact

fuck him

rat bastard

i think i just felt the earth settle back on its axis.

 

[rightwinger]

He isn't getting in with 219 wins.

It's that simple.

And as you look at the numbers you see he wasn't that lights out, and that ERA matter is highly suspect, he suddenly figurs it out in his 6th year, and losses it just as fast?

Pedro wants in, he will have to pitch at least 2 more years and win 30 or more games, or its no way.

Pedro is automatic first ballot HOF...no question

No pitcher who has 3 Cy Youngs was not first ballot. HOF looks at two things. Did you dominate your era and did you have the longevity. Longevity is defined as 10 years.


219 wins won't get you in?

Koufax had 165
Dizzy Dean had 150

Both dominated their era

Pedro put up ridiculously low ERAs (below 2.00) in an era where steroids pushed ERAs above 4.00.

Pedro, along with Clemons, Maddox and Johnson were the dominant pitchers of this era.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Guaranteed First Round HOF:

Derek Jeter
Mariano Rivera
ARod
Andy Petite

Jorge Posada (?)

 

[rightwinger]

Guaranteed First Round HOF:

Derek Jeter
Mariano Rivera
ARod
Andy Petite

Jorge Posada (?)

Jeter- First round
Rivera- First Round
ARod- Should be first round but will get Steroid protest votes

Petite- Won't make it
Posada- Maybe a veterans selection

 

[Xenophon]

yeah but dude...now you are sort of contradicting yourself...you said its based over a career not over a few short great years....Over their career Catfish and Lemon shouldn't be in the hall with those types of wins.

There's also like 7 other pitchers with wins under 250 in the hall from the old days of baseball but it was a diff time back then

I wasn't the only one to notice that then.

Too bad you can't 'notice' what didn't happen.

It these stupid posts by you that are teh reason I don't respect you.

 

[Xenophon]

The wins by year is what jumps out at me with pedro.

14
13
17
19
23
18
7
20
14
16
15

For all that ERA and Ks, he should have been winning 20 every year.

What about all the years with the Expos who couldn't BUY a run?

When his ERA hovered near 4?

We already covered that the spos had a decent hitting team when he was there.

 

[Xenophon]

Pedro is automatic first ballot HOF...no question

Try reading the thread.

He is not even close, and a lot of you surprise me how little you know the game, you think a guy who was shit for 11 years go to the hall, on the first ballot no less!

Koufax had 165
Dizzy Dean had 150

Both careers ended by severe injuries.

You want to comapre that with a guy who just stinks it up for 11 years?

 

[rightwinger]

Pedro is automatic first ballot HOF...no question

Try reading the thread.

He is not even close, and a lot of you surprise me how little you know the game, you think a guy who was shit for 11 years go to the hall, on the first ballot no less!

Koufax had 165
Dizzy Dean had 150

Both careers ended by severe injuries.

You want to comapre that with a guy who just stinks it up for 11 years?

Now you are just trolling

Your anti-Pedro bias is getting pretty lame

Can you name one pitcher....just one....who has 100 more wins than losses and is not in the HOF?

Can you name one pitcher with 3 Cy Youngs that was retired and isn't in the HOF?

First ballot....No brainer

 

[Andrew2382]

Hall of famer yes


First ballot

eek...Don't know

 

[Paulie]

He's more famous for airing out Don Zimmer, than any particular pitch.

And Xeno, it's so hard for me to remember the Expos having a good team, they remind me of the Nationals of now. I think they had Vlad though, didn't they? That might have been after Pedro had already left though.

I don't know. First ballot probably not.

But sports writers seem to love him, and that's what it's going to ultimately come down to. A lot of the bobbleheads refer to him as being the best they've ever seen from a pitcher when he was on his game. I've also heard them say they've never seen a better change-up from any other pitcher in history, when his fastball was hitting mid 90's with pin-point location.

This is ultimately a stupid debate though. There's certainly been WORSE who've gotten in. I don't agree that wins is most important.

He dominated both leagues, and actually had some of his better years in the AL where the bats are tougher.

Who knows.

I think when all is said and done, he's in there at some point. A good performance this post-season could actually help solidify his chances.

I always downgrade a player's overall worth when they try and play past their prime and tarnish their once-great numbers.

Jerry Rice, for example. even though he's auto first-ballot regardless.

Favre, could redeem all these past failures with a stellar year this year.