Zone1 Bible verses that seem to contradict other Bible verses: 1 John 1:8 and 1 John 3:9

[DukeU]

Cool, ill ask for a door when i die. I asked just now, but it didnt appear, so i guess it happens after you die.

Free will is cool isn't it!

 

[theHawk]

It might be created by a higher power. Im not doubting God at the moment, im doubting certain Bible stories.

So this is your excuse to create your own version of God.

 

[Godboy]

So this is your excuse to create your own version of God.

Why cant i? Every other man on this planet did. Thats how the Bible was created... by men. There are shitloads of Christianity versions in this nation alone. Some of you have wildly differing beliefs. What makes YOU so special that i should believe YOU?

 

[theHawk]

Salvation? What happens to me if you guys fail to convince me that he is real? Im still safe, right? God is good, right? He isnt a petty being who would cast me into fire for eternity simply because his humans werent convincing enough, right? That would be evil as fuck!!! And also super petty for a higher being, wouldnt you agree?

He’d cast you into the fire to pay for your sins. The wages of sin is death. So it’s either your death, or Jesus’s death on the cross if you believe in it.

Is it really worth betting your eternal soul on this argument that God is “evil”?

 

[theHawk]

Why cant i? Every other man on this planet did. Thats how the Bible was created... by men. There are shitloads of Christianity versions in this nation alone. Some of you have wildly differing beliefs. What makes YOU so special that i should believe YOU?

Yes there many fake versions of Christianity. It’s your job to sift through them. It isn’t about believing me, I didn’t make this stuff up. I read the Bible and believe in it.

 

[Clyde 154]

Are 1 John 1:8 and 1 John 3:9 contradictory?​

In 1 John 1:8, John says

And in chapter 3, verse 9, he says

There is no contradiction when you read 1 John and retain its contextual integrity.

"If we say we have no sin (in our lives......implied), we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. (John explains that when we turn our lives over to the Christ.....He is faithful and just to forgive our sins.........) If we say we have not sinned (past tense, have never sinned), we make Him (the Lord) a liar, and His Word is not in us." -- 1 John 1:8

John has already explained that ".........God is light and there is no darkness in Him" -- 1 John 1:5 Thus, John is speaking about walking in the light (Jesus Christ is known as the light of the world, as declared by John in the gospel of John 8:12)......when you walk in the light as directed by Jesus Christ in THE WORD that is IN US as referenced by John in 1:8........its not possible for you to sin....if you walk in the light of Jesus Christ. Our past sins are forgiven when we are Baptized into Christ in a symbolic, death, burial and resurrection to walk as a new creature free from sin, just like a newborn, we are REBORN free from our past sins. (Romans 6:4, 1 Peter 3:21)

If water baptism cleanses us of our past sins that were garnered while Walking in Darkness without the Light of God......what cleanses us after we are transferred into the kingdom of God...i.e., the church and we happen to slip and sin without continued deliberate premeditation?

1 John Explains, further along, with this verse being rendered in the "present tense"....meaning, you have already been baptized into the kingdom/church, and its human nature (since none of us are Omniscient (all knowing)) for man to make mistakes/errors in judgments/decisions...aka, mistakes that can lead to sin. Therefore...........John explains......that it is impossible for you to sin as long as you walk in the light (follow the commandments of Jesus Christ found in the Word of God.......which should be residing within us if we are actually a practicing Christian. If you walk in the light.........you can't sin, because there is no darkness (sin) possible in God's light....which simply means that you are being directed by THE WORD (Jesus Christ who is the light of the world and God -- John 1)


1 John 3:9 explains what's necessary to walk in the light continually, when you slip into the shadows of darkness, the light will lead you back to the Word.

One must begin at 1 John 3:8 and continue to 3:9, "He that commits sin is of the devil (darkness as explained by John earlier); for the devil sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. WHOSOEVER IS BORN OF GOD (already saved, baptized in the kingdom/church)..........DOES NOT (not cannot, but does not) COMITT SIN, for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin (that seed is the ability to walk in the light of the Lord Christ), BECAUSE HE IS BORN OF GOD."

THERE IS NO CONTRADICTION. One passage is speaking of our past sins.........., and we are liars if we say we have never sinned (in simple logic.....if you claim you have never sinned, then Christ, and Christ crucified is worthless....there is no need for Grace/Forgiveness........you make Christianity into a LIE.

John is simply explaining that it is not possible to walk in the light and the darkness at the same time. If you walk in the light.........you cannot sin. But........we are born with free will, thus the need for Jesus to be advocate, standing between God and our Sinful natures (1 John 2:1)

 

[Meriweather]

Anyway, there was an explanation of this "contradiction"

Going back to the culture of the time...

People were thinking of the Present Age (sinful mankind) and the Age to Come (age without sin). In many respects it referred back to the Seed of Abraham who were to be the people of God. The divine spark within people cannot sin, as God is incapable of sin. However, we are also human, and thus capable of sin.

With Christ within us, we are in the new age, the age of no sin--Christians cannot be continually sinning and shrugging it off. When we sin, we must confess the sin with a penitent heart and are thus forgiven of the sin. We should always be alert to and avoid any act of sin.

It is good for people of God to ask themselves each day, even each hour, whose seed are they, are they living with the divine spark in the age without sin or the age of sin.

 

[BS Filter]

We have a sin nature before we are born again. After receiving Jesus we are a new creature and no longer have a sin nature. We can sin, but we are forgiven and cleansed because we now belong to God.

 

[norwegen]

Are 1 John 1:8 and 1 John 3:9 contradictory?​

In 1 John 1:8, John says

And in chapter 3, verse 9, he says

The chapter 3, verse 9 you quoted doesn't quite line up with the rest of the paragraph or even the verse itself. The context is the practice of sin, or a lifestyle of sin.

No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he was born of God.​

​

3:9, emphases added​

The whole paragraph is about making a practice of sinning, or of lawlessness.

1:9 is not about that. In that verse, John is telling his audience only that they are still potentially subject to sin.

 

[Clyde 154]

We have a sin nature before we are born again. After receiving Jesus we are a new creature and no longer have a sin nature. We can sin, but we are forgiven and cleansed because we now belong to God.

Sin is not inherited from Adam........the wages of sin are inherited from Adam (death), not sin itself (Romans 5:12). A doctrine of Original Sin is not found in the Word of God.

The wisest man in the O.T. confirms this truth, "Truly, this only I have found, that God made man UPRIGHT (of moral excellence), but they (mankind) have sought out many schemes (sinful schemes)" -- Eccl. 7:29 God created man without sin in his nature, man through free will chooses to sin..........Sin is defined as the breaking of God's Laws, "sin is the transgression of law" -- 1 John 3:4. In order to sin.......man must make a decision to Break the Law, with the knowledge that he is breaking the law of God. Sin is not inherited........one earns sin through free will choices.


Explain in detail what sin (breaking of God's law) is any newborn found guilty? Sin cannot be imputed where there is no law (Romans 5:13). A child still in a developing stage of his capacity to learn logic and reason.......cannot comprehend the law, thus there can be no sin until a person reaches the age of accountability.......knowing right from wrong. Even our court systems practice this scriptural truth........the worse thing a young criminal can hear are the words, "You will be tried as an Adult........" Why? Because they comprehend there will be no slap on wrist because of one's age.

Its a most illogical and idiotic thing to sprinkle water on a child and claim that he/she is now free from the sin inherited from their parents........a child that is yet to talk, walk, eat solid foods....etc., is supposed to comprehend the reason they are experiencing water thrown in their face? Your parents cannot take your sin upon themselves anymore than the child can be responsible for their parents sin.

All children are born totally innocent because they do not possess the intelligence to comprehend right (the law) from wrong (transgression of the law).........Jesus compared the Little Children with an example of how the kingdom of God exists in total innocence. "But Jesus called them unto Him and said; suffer little children to come unto Me, and forbid them not; for of such is the kingdom of God" -- Luke 18:16)

If men are born into sin........can anyone explain how Jesus did not know sin? (1 Peter 2:22, 2 Cor. 5:21, Heb. 4:15). Jesus was "born of a woman, born under the law" (Gal 4:4).......the law that regulates and defines sin. This passage did not claim that Jesus was born of a woman WHO NEVER SINNED.......for there has been only 1 man born of a woman to walk this earth without sin (Jesus Christ), this is what was required to make null and void the Law and the Prophets (the perfect, without spot nor blemish, sacrifical lamb of God) .........Jesus nailed the Old Law to His cross with His sacrificial blood of the lamb. (Col. 2:14)

No where in the scriptures is there a command to worship Mary as the mother of God. One does not pray to Mary......as the scriptures declare that only God is to be worshiped....the RCC breaks this command when they actually offer prayer to Mary, which is a form of worship. God only is to be worshiped (Luke 4:8)

The doctrine of Oringal Sin is debunked in the O.T., "The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor shall the father bear the guilt of the son; the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself; and the wickedness of the wicked upon himself....." -- Ez. 18:20. This passage clearly states that the son is not responsible for the actions of his father......sin cannot be inherited.

What about Ps. 51:5? "Behold I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me." Some have forgotten to read Ps. 22:9-10, where David explains, He has trusted in God since He came from His mother's womb. Strange for someone that was supposedly born with sin. What did David declare in Ps. 51:5? It was His mother that conceived him in sin..........David is addressing the sin of his mother, not himself.

 

[BS Filter]

Sin is not inherited from Adam........the wages of sin are inherited from Adam, not sin itself (Romans 5:12). A doctrine of Original Sin is not found in the Word of God.

The wisest man in the O.T. confirms this truth, "Truly, this only I have found, that God made man UPRIGHT (of moral excellence), but they have (mankind) have sought out many schemes (sinful schemes)" -- Eccl. 7:29 God created man without sin in his nature, man through free will chooses to sin..........Sin is defined as the breaking of God's Laws, "sin is the transgression of law" -- 1 John 3:4. In order to sin.......man must make a decision to Break the Law, with the knowledge that he is breaking the law of God. Sin is not inherited........one earns sin through free will choices.

All children are born totally innocent because they do not possess the intelligence to comprehend right (the law) from wrong (transgression of the law).........Jesus compared the Little Children with an example of how the kingdom of God exists in total innocence. "But Jesus called them unto Him and said; suffer little children to come unto Me, and forbid them not; for of such is the kingdom of God" -- Luke 18:16)

If men are born into sin........can anyone explain how Jesus did not know sin? (1 Peter 2:22, 2 Cor. 5:21, Heb. 4:15). Jesus was "born of a woman, born under the law" (Gal 4:4).......the law that regulates and defines sin. This passage did not claim that Jesus was born of a woman WHO NEVER SINNED.......for there been only 1 man born of woman to walk this earth without sin (Jesus Christ), this is what was required to make null and void the Law and the Prophets .........Jesus nailed the Old Law to His cross (Col. 2:14)

No where in the scriptures is there a command to worship Mary as the mother of God. One does not pray to Mary......as the scriptures declare that only God is to be worshiped....the RCC breaks this command when they actually offer prayer to Mary, which is a form of worship. God only is to be worshiped (Luke 4:8)

The doctrine of Oringal Sin is debunked in the O.T., "The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor shall the father bear the guilt of the son; the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself; and the wickedness of the wicked upon himself....." -- Ez. 18:20. This passage clearly states that the son is not responsible for the actions of his father......sin cannot be inherited.

What about Ps. 51:5? "Behold I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me." Some have forgotten to read Ps. 22:9-10, where David explains, He has trusted in God since He came from His mother's womb. Strange for someone that was supposedly born with sin. What did David declare in Ps. 51:5? It was His mother that conceived him in sin..........David is addressing the sin of his mother, not himself.

Jesus didn't have a sin nature because his father is God. Mary conceived by the Holy Spirit, not man. Jesus took on our sin while on the cross. He became sin.

 

[Clyde 154]

Jesus didn't have a sin nature because his father is God. Mary conceived by the Holy Spirit, not man. Jesus took on our sin while on the cross. He became sin.

If it was impossible for Jesus to sin because of His Father............how could He be tempted like any other man?

And His mother was human. Show me the passage that states that Jesus had no sin because His Father is God. What the scriptures do declare is the fact that Jesus was born a natural birth, "Born of Woman, Born under the Law....." Jesus was sent to redeem those born under the law (Gal. 4:4-7) Jesus is known in scripture as the Son of Man as well as the Son of God. Jesus is called the "Son of Man" 82 times in the N.T. (example: Matt. 12:32, Luke 12:28, John 1:51) This literally means that Jesus, through His earthly lineage was a descendent of both Adam and King David. This is explained in the lineages of Christ presented in Matthew and Luke, one line goes through the His adopted legal fathe (Joseph) and through Mary's lineage based upon the father of Mary.

You forget that Jesus gave up His divine nature as God when He was born into this world..........it was necessary to become a man that was tempted like every other man on earth. Jesus gave up His position as God to become man's equal........Jesus took upon Himself ".........the form of a servant and was made in the likeness of man........" -- Phil. 2:6-10. When and where is someone MADE? They are made/conceived in their mothers' womb and born into this world approx. 9 months later. Jesus was tempted like any other man born of a woman (Heb. 4:15-16) but sinned not.

Jesus never preformed any acts of a miraculous nature from birth into His early 30's .............His divine ministry lasted but 3.5 years, after the Holy Spirit fell upon Him while He was being baptized in the Jordon river by John the Baptist (Luke 3:22) ..it was only after His baptism that Jesus confirmed the Word of God through signs and wonders. For the first 3 decades of Jesus' life..........He was a man, born of a woman.

 

[BS Filter]

If it was impossible for Jesus to sin because of His Father............how could He be tempted like any other man?

And His mother was human. Show me the passage that states that Jesus had no sin because His Father is God. What the scriptures do declare is the fact that Jesus was born a natural birth, "Born of Woman, Born under the Law....." Jesus was sent to redeem those born under the law (Gal. 4:4-7) Jesus is known in scripture as the Son of Man as well as the Son of God. Jesus is called the "Son of Man" 82 times in the N.T. (example: Matt. 12:32, Luke 12:28, John 1:51) This literally means that Jesus, through His earthly lineage was a descendent of both Adam and King David. This is explained in the lineages of Christ presented in Matthew and Luke, one line goes through the His adopted legal fathe (Joseph) and through Mary's lineage based upon the father of Mary.

You forget that Jesus gave up His divine nature as God when He was born into this world..........it was necessary to become a man that was tempted like every other man on earth. Jesus gave up His position as God to become man's equal........Jesus took upon Himself ".........the form of a servant and was made in the likeness of man........" -- Phil. 2:6-10. Jesus was tempted like any other man born of a woman (Heb. 4:15-16) but sinned not.

Jesus never preformed any acts of a miraculous nature from birth into His early 30's .............His divine ministry lasted but 3.5 years, after the Holy Spirit fell upon Him while He was being baptized in the Jordon river by John the Baptist (Luke 3:22) ..it was only after His baptism that Jesus confirmed the Word of God through signs and wonders. For the first 3 decades of Jesus' life..........He was a man, born of a woman.

2 Corinthians 5:21
21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him

 

[Clyde 154]

2 Corinthians 5:21
21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him

There is nothing like going shopping for a Cherry Picked passage of scripture while totally ignoring all other passages that address the same topic.

And? This passage simply explains that Jesus became Sin for the World........because Jesus did commit any sinful action, even though He was tempted like all men (Heb. 4:15).......in order to REDEM the world from the Law as Explained previously (Gal. 4:4-7) This passage does not claim that Jesus could not be tempted because His Father was God. Again........show me book, chapter and verse that states, Jesus did not sin because His Father was God.

Your logic or lack thereof make the other passages into lies.........such as (Gal. 4:4-7, Phil. 2:6-10(where the scripture declares that Jesus was born/made in the likeness of man)....etc.)

What? Do you assume that the Holy Spirit of Truth...i.e, the Holy Spirit would contradict Himself? All scripture (all, every passage) is inspired of God.........(2 Tim. 3:16-17)
CHERRY PICKED: Selecting only what you think you agrees with you somehow.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

The Bible is not inerrant, and the Bible is contradictory.

 

[Clyde 154]

The Bible is not inerrant, and the Bible is contradictory.

Prove it. Ad Hominem Bull Shit does not count. More Fake native American BS? I wonder how many "Sock Puppets" exist on this site? What? Is the claim of native american lineage the new left wing, in vouge thing? When it talks like duck, walks like a duck, swims like a duck..................its a duck. No one can hide from their "ID", their subconscious.

Sock Puppet Account: Sock puppet account - Wikipedia

 

[BS Filter]

There is nothing like going shopping for a Cherry Picked passage of scripture while totally ignoring all other passages that address the same topic.

And? This passage simply explains that Jesus became Sin for the World........because Jesus did commit any sinful action, even though He was tempted like all men (Heb. 4:15).......in order to REDEM the world from the Law as Explained previously (Gal. 4:4-7) This passage does not claim that Jesus could not be tempted because His Father was God. Again........show me book, chapter and verse that states, Jesus did not sin because His Father was God.

Your logic or lack thereof make the other passages into lies.........such as (Gal. 4:4-7, Phil. 2:6-10(where the scripture declares that Jesus was born/made in the likeness of man)....etc.)

What? Do you assume that the Holy Spirit of Truth...i.e, the Holy Spirit would contradict Himself? All scripture (all, every passage) is inspired of God.........(2 Tim. 3:16-17)
CHERRY PICKED: Selecting only what you think you agrees with you somehow.

The Scripture says that He never sinned.

 

[BS Filter]

The Scripture says that He never sinned.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Prove it. Ad Hominem Bull Shit does not count. More Fake native American BS? I wonder how many "Sock Puppets" exist on this site? What? Is the claim of native american lineage the new left wing, in vouge thing? When it talks like duck, walks like a duck, swims like a duck..................its a duck. No one can hide from their "ID", their subconscious.

Sock Puppet Account: Sock puppet account - Wikipedia

I has been proved for almost two thousand years.

And you can't prove differently.

 

[Clyde 154]

The Scripture says that He never sinned.

And? Other passages declare the same thing. There are no passages of scripture that declare He never sinned because He was God's Son and was incapable of sinning. In Fact the scriptures state the opposite........He did not sin even though He was made a man, and was tempted in every way as any other man. (Hebrews 4:15)

Read Comprehend: He was a man like any other man for the first 3 decades of His life. "Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Jesus Christ, who was in the form of God, DID NOT COUNT IT EQUALITY with God a thing to be grasped, But EMPTIED HIMSELF (emptied Himself of what? His divine nature), by taking the form of a servant, BEING BORN IN THE LIKENESS OF MEN (not the likeness of His Father who can't sin, everyone is born in the likeness of God, in a spiritual form -- Gensis 1:26, how then can any man be born with sin? via you logic? )........................." -- Phil. 2:5-10 Jesus was emptied of His God nature when He was made/conceived in the likeness of man.

Again.....explain how Jesus was born in the likeness of man.....born of a woman, born under the law.......was born without sin if a doctrine of original sin is found in the word of God.

What's next? With your lack of logic? Was Mary born sinless as well? If not, how was her son born without her sin? I would suggest you present the passage, book, chapter and verse that requires anyone to declare Mary as divine.