Big Brother's License To Steal: Feds Take Record $1.9 Trillion In Revenue...

[bripat9643]

only an idiot equates taxation with theft.

Only idiots think there's a difference.

 

[bripat9643]

only an idiot equates taxation with theft.

Record Profits, yet still not enough for ya. Shame on you Goose Stepper thieves.

again, only an idiot calls taxation - especially taxation by a duly elected representative government - theft.

Please show the difference. Theft by a "duly elected representative" is still theft.

 

[bripat9643]

Yep, we tried it during the industrial revolution. Most of society was treated like dog shit.

Yeah, millions of people left the farm to work in the factories because life on the farm was so much better than life in the city . . . . . no, wait.

Corporate America bought out the farms.

Duh . . . . wrong!

 

[Skylar]

Read the definition of theft. Then explain how taxation differs.

A common thing I hear from conservatives is that taxation is a form of theft, but those same conservatives make exceptions to that (like law enforcement, military etc) But if taxing is forcibly taking money from one group of people and giving it to another then how can you justify taxes at all--even for the military?

I'm a libertarian, and we don't make exceptions. All taxation is theft.

The constitution says otherwise.

The comparison with a private club isn't just wrong, it's positively absurd. In almost every detail government resembles a criminal gang, not a private club. It pursues its enterprises and enforces its whims over a specific geographical area.

A 'criminal gang' that is subject to the majority vote of those its supposedly committing crimes against? Your analogy collapses the moment its even casually reviewed.

Criminal gangs are the ultimate expression of Libertarianism. Private citizens exerting private power without the constraints of government.

Private clubs are entirely voluntary. To become a member you have to explicitly consent to the rules by signing a contract. No one ever consented to government. No one ever signed a contract agreeing to pay taxes. You can stop your club membership any time you like without relocating. Not so with government.

Sure you can. You can leave. About 1800 people a year do so. Go to a country without laws, without taxes, without any constraint on your freedoms.

I believe that would include Somalia....and certain portions of Afghanistan.

You're arguing for anarchy, where you are the only law. I think you might want to experience that a little more first hand in Moghadishu.....its a libertarian paradise. The government has virtually no power, private citizens do as they wish, and no taxes are collected by the government.

True, private power is rampantly abused. But libertarianism is a philosophy that utterly ignores any abuse of private power, no matter how egregious. So you'll be living your dreams!

I realize the truth about government is distressing to bootlicking drones like yourself. It has no ethical or moral justification. Government is a vicious, brutal unethical means to organize society. It's understandable that you, as one of its minions, would attempt to give it some respectability by comparing it with an institution that is respectable and not hated by most of humanity.

A vicious, brutal, unethical means.....in comparison to what? The utopian libertarian society where private power just happens to be perfectly checked by the rights and freedoms of the individual simply doesn't exist. Nor would last long in the real world if it were every instituted.

Libertarianism fails about half a dozen times over.

Anarchy with a libertarian coating is functionally unfeasible. As if instituted, the strong would begin imposing their will on the weak within minutes. Your version of anarchy has the shelf of tuna salad in the backseat of my car in July.

The concept of 'consent' in anarchical systems is an almost notional idea. If you live in squalor, sickness, crushing poverty, are on the edge of starvation.....if you agree to work for pennies a day, you've made a 'choice'. And thus, all the ivory tower requirements of libertarian 'morality and ethics' are met.

Back in reality, choice isn't a switch. Its a spectrum. And a wealthy man has far more than a poor one does. And the type of brutal exploitation that libertarian not only fosters, but mandates, is neither moral nor ethical. But an ethical and moral abyss where unspeakable travesties and tyrannical oppression are fastidiously protected for no other reason than their inflicted by private hands.

Lets follow the inevitable and logical outcome of 'the only laws that apply to me are those that I consent to personally,', shall we?

You know what your property rights are under your system? Whatever the guy with the most guns and most cronies says they are. If I have more....and I like your house, you're fucked. Because I can take all of your shyte. Your land, your wife, your kids....whatever I want. Oh, you can babble about 'morals' and 'ethics' all you like as the loot is divided. You can laudibly make empty declarations about your 'cold, dead fingers'. But in a land with no law, power prevails.....long after your fingers are cold and dead.

That's what libertarian anarchists never fucking figure out: systems of non-consensual power will assert themselves even when there are no laws. Government isn't the source of non-consensual power. Its the organization and awkward attempt to controll non-consensual power. That's all government is: the codified, organized assertions of power that will inevitably form when you have a specialist society with more than say, 300 people. And its ultimate authority is violence. Just like it is is your libertarian utopia.

Government exists because it necessary for the maintenance of any complex society. And democracy is the least egregious of governments that we've yet invented. Its morality and ethics are born of its necessity and its outcomes in comparison to its lack with the population densities that we possess. Its among the least-worst real world options we have available.

And certainly better than the festering shithole that anarchistic libertarianism inevitably delivers after making its litany of empty, foolish 'guns and roses' promises.

 

[Sallow]

Record Profits, yet still not enough for ya. Shame on you Goose Stepper thieves.

again, only an idiot calls taxation - especially taxation by a duly elected representative government - theft.

Please show the difference. Theft by a "duly elected representative" is still theft.

The Constitution provides a pretty simple guide line of what expected of the citizens of the United States.

If people consider taxation, theft, which is codified in the Constitution? They are free to find new digs.

Islands for Sale Worldwide - Private Islands Online

 

[Sallow]

A common thing I hear from conservatives is that taxation is a form of theft, but those same conservatives make exceptions to that (like law enforcement, military etc) But if taxing is forcibly taking money from one group of people and giving it to another then how can you justify taxes at all--even for the military?

I'm a libertarian, and we don't make exceptions. All taxation is theft.

The constitution says otherwise.


A 'criminal gang' that is subject to the majority vote of those its supposedly committing crimes against? Your analogy collapses the moment its even casually reviewed.

Criminal gangs are the ultimate expression of Libertarianism. Private citizens exerting private power without the constraints of government.

Private clubs are entirely voluntary. To become a member you have to explicitly consent to the rules by signing a contract. No one ever consented to government. No one ever signed a contract agreeing to pay taxes. You can stop your club membership any time you like without relocating. Not so with government.

Sure you can. You can leave. About 1800 people a year do so. Go to a country without laws, without taxes, without any constraint on your freedoms.

I believe that would include Somalia....and certain portions of Afghanistan.

You're arguing for anarchy, where you are the only law. I think you might want to experience that a little more first hand in Moghadishu.....its a libertarian paradise. The government has virtually no power, private citizens do as they wish, and no taxes are collected by the government.

True, private power is rampantly abused. But libertarianism is a philosophy that utterly ignores any abuse of private power, no matter how egregious. So you'll be living your dreams!

I realize the truth about government is distressing to bootlicking drones like yourself. It has no ethical or moral justification. Government is a vicious, brutal unethical means to organize society. It's understandable that you, as one of its minions, would attempt to give it some respectability by comparing it with an institution that is respectable and not hated by most of humanity.

A vicious, brutal, unethical means.....in comparison to what? The utopian libertarian society where private power just happens to be perfectly checked by the rights and freedoms of the individual simply doesn't exist. Nor would last long in the real world if it were every instituted.

Libertarianism fails about half a dozen times over.

Anarchy with a libertarian coating is functionally unfeasible. As if instituted, the strong would begin imposing their will on the weak within minutes. Your version of anarchy has the shelf of tuna salad in the backseat of my car in July.

The concept of 'consent' in anarchical systems is an almost notional idea. If you live in squalor, sickness, crushing poverty, are on the edge of starvation.....if you agree to work for pennies a day, you've made a 'choice'. And thus, all the ivory tower requirements of libertarian 'morality and ethics' are met.

Back in reality, choice isn't a switch. Its a spectrum. And a wealthy man has far more than a poor one does. And the type of brutal exploitation that libertarian not only fosters, but mandates, is neither moral nor ethical. But an ethical and moral abyss where unspeakable travesties and tyrannical oppression are fastidiously protected for no other reason than their inflicted by private hands.

Lets follow the inevitable and logical outcome of 'the only laws that apply to me are those that I consent to personally,', shall we?

You know what your property rights are under your system? Whatever the guy with the most guns and most cronies says they are. If I have more....and I like your house, you're fucked. Because I can take all of your shyte. Your land, your wife, your kids....whatever I want. Oh, you can babble about 'morals' and 'ethics' all you like as the loot is divided. You can laudibly make empty declarations about your 'cold, dead fingers'. But in a land with no law, power prevails.....long after your fingers are cold and dead.

That's what libertarian anarchists never fucking figure out: systems of non-consensual power will assert themselves even when there are no laws. Government isn't the source of non-consensual power. Its the organization and awkward attempt to controll non-consensual power. That's all government is: the codified, organized assertions of power that will inevitably form when you have a specialist society with more than say, 300 people. And its ultimate authority is violence. Just like it is is your libertarian utopia.

Government exists because it necessary for the maintenance of any complex society. And democracy is the least egregious of governments that we've yet invented. Its morality and ethics are born of its necessity and its outcomes in comparison to its lack with the population densities that we possess. Its among the least-worst real world options we have available.

And certainly better than the festering shithole that anarchistic libertarianism inevitably delivers after making its litany of empty, foolish 'guns and roses' promises.

 

[Politico]

only an idiot equates taxation with theft.

Record Profits, yet still not enough for ya. Shame on you Goose Stepper thieves.

Yeah shame you don't know the definition of theft. This is a budgeting issue. The title is a lie.

 

[Geaux4it]

only an idiot equates taxation with theft.

Record Profits, yet still not enough for ya. Shame on you Goose Stepper thieves.

again, only an idiot calls taxation - especially taxation by a duly elected representative government - theft.

As Corso says... 'Not so fast'. I take issue with duly elected.

Obama IMO, and many others, suppressed the vote in 2012 via the IRS

-Geaux

 

[Skylar]

As Corso says... 'Not so fast'. I take issue with duly elected.

Obama IMO, and many others, suppressed the vote in 2012 via the IRS

-Geaux

Save of course, there's no evidence that actually happened. After a 3 year investigation, there's exactly zero evidence that Obama had a thing to do with any IRS 'suppression', that the scrutiny of Tea Party was politically motivated, or that the tax exempt status of a comparative handful of Tea Party 503 groups would have had any significant impact on the election.

All of which would have to be true for your narrative to work.

In the 2012 retcon that some conservatives try to spew, they run headlong into one rather inconvenient truth: It wasn't even close. Obama won by more than 4 million popular votes over 100 electoral votes.

 

[Sallow]

Record Profits, yet still not enough for ya. Shame on you Goose Stepper thieves.

again, only an idiot calls taxation - especially taxation by a duly elected representative government - theft.

As Corso says... 'Not so fast'. I take issue with duly elected.

Obama IMO, and many others, suppressed the vote in 2012 via the IRS

-Geaux

 

[Geaux4it]

A common thing I hear from conservatives is that taxation is a form of theft, but those same conservatives make exceptions to that (like law enforcement, military etc) But if taxing is forcibly taking money from one group of people and giving it to another then how can you justify taxes at all--even for the military?

I'm a libertarian, and we don't make exceptions. All taxation is theft.

The constitution says otherwise.


A 'criminal gang' that is subject to the majority vote of those its supposedly committing crimes against? Your analogy collapses the moment its even casually reviewed.

Criminal gangs are the ultimate expression of Libertarianism. Private citizens exerting private power without the constraints of government.

Private clubs are entirely voluntary. To become a member you have to explicitly consent to the rules by signing a contract. No one ever consented to government. No one ever signed a contract agreeing to pay taxes. You can stop your club membership any time you like without relocating. Not so with government.

Sure you can. You can leave. About 1800 people a year do so. Go to a country without laws, without taxes, without any constraint on your freedoms.

I believe that would include Somalia....and certain portions of Afghanistan.

You're arguing for anarchy, where you are the only law. I think you might want to experience that a little more first hand in Moghadishu.....its a libertarian paradise. The government has virtually no power, private citizens do as they wish, and no taxes are collected by the government.

True, private power is rampantly abused. But libertarianism is a philosophy that utterly ignores any abuse of private power, no matter how egregious. So you'll be living your dreams!

I realize the truth about government is distressing to bootlicking drones like yourself. It has no ethical or moral justification. Government is a vicious, brutal unethical means to organize society. It's understandable that you, as one of its minions, would attempt to give it some respectability by comparing it with an institution that is respectable and not hated by most of humanity.

A vicious, brutal, unethical means.....in comparison to what? The utopian libertarian society where private power just happens to be perfectly checked by the rights and freedoms of the individual simply doesn't exist. Nor would last long in the real world if it were every instituted.

Libertarianism fails about half a dozen times over.

Anarchy with a libertarian coating is functionally unfeasible. As if instituted, the strong would begin imposing their will on the weak within minutes. Your version of anarchy has the shelf of tuna salad in the backseat of my car in July.

The concept of 'consent' in anarchical systems is an almost notional idea. If you live in squalor, sickness, crushing poverty, are on the edge of starvation.....if you agree to work for pennies a day, you've made a 'choice'. And thus, all the ivory tower requirements of libertarian 'morality and ethics' are met.

Back in reality, choice isn't a switch. Its a spectrum. And a wealthy man has far more than a poor one does. And the type of brutal exploitation that libertarian not only fosters, but mandates, is neither moral nor ethical. But an ethical and moral abyss where unspeakable travesties and tyrannical oppression are fastidiously protected for no other reason than their inflicted by private hands.

Lets follow the inevitable and logical outcome of 'the only laws that apply to me are those that I consent to personally,', shall we?

You know what your property rights are under your system? Whatever the guy with the most guns and most cronies says they are. If I have more....and I like your house, you're fucked. Because I can take all of your shyte. Your land, your wife, your kids....whatever I want. Oh, you can babble about 'morals' and 'ethics' all you like as the loot is divided. You can laudibly make empty declarations about your 'cold, dead fingers'. But in a land with no law, power prevails.....long after your fingers are cold and dead.

That's what libertarian anarchists never fucking figure out: systems of non-consensual power will assert themselves even when there are no laws. Government isn't the source of non-consensual power. Its the organization and awkward attempt to controll non-consensual power. That's all government is: the codified, organized assertions of power that will inevitably form when you have a specialist society with more than say, 300 people. And its ultimate authority is violence. Just like it is is your libertarian utopia.

Government exists because it necessary for the maintenance of any complex society. And democracy is the least egregious of governments that we've yet invented. Its morality and ethics are born of its necessity and its outcomes in comparison to its lack with the population densities that we possess. Its among the least-worst real world options we have available.

And certainly better than the festering shithole that anarchistic libertarianism inevitably delivers after making its litany of empty, foolish 'guns and roses' promises.

A vicious, brutal, unethical means.....in comparison to what?

-

Not by comparison, but by definition.

Back in reality, choice isn't a switch. Its a spectrum. And a wealthy man has far more than a poor one does.

-

Of course he does.

And the type of brutal exploitation that libertarian not only fosters, but mandates, is neither moral nor ethical. But an ethical and moral abyss where unspeakable travesties and tyrannical oppression are fastidiously protected for no other reason than their inflicted by private hand

You know what your property rights are under your system? Whatever the guy with the most guns and most cronies says they are. If I have more....and I like your house, you're fucked. Because I can take all of your shyte. Your land, your wife, your kids....whatever I want. Oh, you can babble about 'morals' and 'ethics' all you like as the loot is divided. You can laudibly make empty declarations about your 'cold, dead fingers'. But in a land with no law, power prevails.....long after your fingers are cold and dead.

I'll take my chances with Joe Q Citizen vice the government. I trust him more.

Government exists because it necessary

Within the constraints of the Constitution

 

[bripat9643]

only an idiot equates taxation with theft.

Record Profits, yet still not enough for ya. Shame on you Goose Stepper thieves.

Yeah shame you don't know the definition of theft. This is a budgeting issue. The title is a lie.

Post the definition and show us how taxation differs.

 

[warwulf]

of course this is theft. Just like that illegal kosher tax the 2% jew population puts on our foods.
The fed reserve. Who runs it? A jew named Bernanke. Anyone else see the connections? Israel needs more money for bombs to kill and maim civilians. Higher gas prices, higher costs for foods like milk and wheat products.
Geee....according to the Constitution, taxes were only supposed to be levied during times of war!

 

[Skylar]

Not by comparison, but by definition.

Yes, by comparison. Unlike the dreamy utopian libertarian fantasy, where private power is never abused, where there's an inexplicably perfect balance between your rights and freedoms and the excursion of power in private hands......the world we live in actually exists.

If we're going to measure the successes and failures of democracy, we have to do so against the results of other, viable systems.

And the libertarian pipe dream isn't feasible. As its based on a fundamental fallacy: that the government is the cause of non-consensual power. That's utter bullshyte. Non-consensual power is exerted even when there are no laws. And in libertarian anarchy, power will be exerted. Its only check?

Wait for it.....

....wait for it.....

Violence. Brutal, viscous, violence. The foundational source of authority. Which will just as foundational in libertarian anarchy as it is our democratic republic.

Of course he does.

No, he doesn't. The libertarian argument fails the moment we take it out of the ivory tower, where black and white absolutist thinking with no care of consequence or real world realities need sully your pristine principle.

Back in the world we *actually* live in, the power and choices that a wealthy man has in comparison to a poor one are radically different. And libertarian has nothing, absolutely nothing, to check the rampant abuse of power concentrated in private hands.

Abuses that will inevitably occur, as libertarianism is an Oligarch's wet dream. Abuses that demonstrate the absurdity of anarchy as a viable system.

I'll take my chances with Joe Q Citizen vice the government. I trust him more.

Then you'll love Somalia. As its all about taking your chance with your fellow man rather than government. And they being able to exert their 'liberties' with your house, your wife, your children. Free from government constraint.

Live the dream!

Government exists because it necessary

Within the constraints of the Constitution

.....which doesn't recognize taxation as theft. Ending the very premise of this entire thread.

 

[JWBooth]

only an idiot equates taxation with theft.

 

[Skylar]

of course this is theft. Just like that illegal kosher tax the 2% jew population puts on our foods.
The fed reserve. Who runs it? A jew named Bernanke. Anyone else see the connections? Israel needs more money for bombs to kill and maim civilians. Higher gas prices, higher costs for foods like milk and wheat products.
Geee....according to the Constitution, taxes were only supposed to be levied during times of war!

The constitution says no such thing. You've clearly never read the document, bigot. Rendering your opinion uselessly uninformed.

 

[zeke]

skylar has absolutely OWNED this thread. Nice job.

You who believe taxes equal theft really need to step up your game to play with this poster. He/she has KICKED your alls ass. Again.

Or have all the taxes equal theft posters moved to Somalia? Either way, nice job sky.

 

[eagle1462010]

It is theft when it comes from my pocket and into a politicians pocket.

It is theft when I buy a cell phone for an American and I can't afford to get all my kids one.

It is theft when it is abused.

The Constitution allows taxes to be collected. They just did it differently. Gov't needs funds to operate and that is reality. How much so, is based on your perception of what Gov't should be.

And that is all.

 

[toastman]

of course this is theft. Just like that illegal kosher tax the 2% jew population puts on our foods.
The fed reserve. Who runs it? A jew named Bernanke. Anyone else see the connections? Israel needs more money for bombs to kill and maim civilians. Higher gas prices, higher costs for foods like milk and wheat products.
Geee....according to the Constitution, taxes were only supposed to be levied during times of war!

Lol of course. It's always the Jooos who are behind this.

You're nothing but an anti Semitic wacko, and I saw your post where you said you hope Israels gets nuked and all the Jews suffer immensly, before you deleted it.
Scumbag troll. It's no wonder your rep meter is all red, you started this account for trolling and posting hateful comments against Blacks and Jews.

 

[paulitician]

Ha, the U.S. Government is the largest most brutal corrupt Mafia/Corporation on Earth. Americans' naive ignorance of that is actually kinda humorous. Such childlike naivete.