Brain Dead Justifies Murder

[Vox]

If she had the bleeding complication after the surgery it can be blaimed on he surgeon and if it was so profuse that it impaired securing the airway and resulted in cardiac arrest ( as it clearly did) - then it is a malpractice issue. Does not mean the surgeon did anything wrong, it just happes sometimes, but still will be blamed on the surgeon. it would be the hospital who will be sued, but the blame is basically on the surgeon for the bleeding and anesthesiologist for not securing airway fast enough - although there is nor real blame as they did not do anything wrong.

To Vox: You’re pretty quick to exonerate. Obviously, they did something wrong when they performed the operation in the first place.

No. It is just the nature of the operation - it poses this risk and it happens, albeit not extremely often but often enough to be encountered at least once if you are an ENT surgeon, an anesthesiologist or a critical care physician.

Making the wrong decision that left a young girl in a coma is malpractice as surely as is butchery in the operating room. .

No, it is not. only in the United States.

Parenthetically, it’s exactly because of people like you that a majority of Americans better proceed with extreme caution when it comes to tort reform —— which is doublespeak for limiting the size of awards. You may not like lawyers, but they are the only thing standing between the weak and the butchers.

the more you want ignorant people to get the money where they do not deserve it - the higher the price of EVERYTHING you are going to pay.

Including severe complications from the unnecessary procedures, treatments and medications of the defensive medicine. which includes cardiac arrests and brain deaths as well. In any society outside the US this girl would be removed from the mother because she let her be extremely obese which eventually resulted in severe obstructive sleep apnea which might be treated by tonsillectomy. If it would not be politically incorrect to scorn the mother on the early stage that she is making her daughter an elephant and if not because of the threat of the lawsuit - this girl might have never required the operation to start with. But a pediatrician can not tell the mother - stop making your baby to be an elephant and can not complain to the child protective services that the child is clearly neglected - because the pediatrician is going to be labelled racist and sued by ACLU
The 36 immunizations by the age of 24 months existing in American pediatrics only - is the part of defensive medicine.

And you are paying for it. Together with the greedy people who will sue for anything out of the ignorance and greed which are prevalent in this society - like you just have demonstrated by your post.

I do not pay for it - I do not have the debt for medical school and I can pick and choose what is going to be done to me or my family or not.

Enjoy and don't complain

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Let me begin by saying that I could have put this thread in the Law and Justice forum. I posted it in this forum after deciding the premise is more about ethics than it is about law or religion.

The heart wrenching tragedy of Jahi McMath is worse than most “life-support” stories because all-powerful doctors and hospitals did it too her. You can be certain the tragedy will be compounded after the culture of death crowd marshals it forces —— the courts, the mainstream media, the “brain dead lobby” and the euthanasia crowd. They will all line up to end Jahi’s life. Brain dead is always the justification:

“As I am an expert in biblical theology, including Greek and Hebrew, with respect to the question of what evangelical Christians believe about death, I might be able to be of assistance in the way of providing expert testimony about what the conservative biblical tradition to which Ms. McMath’s mother belongs actually teaches, which is that death is defined not as absence of brain waves but rather the lack of a circulating blood supply,” he wrote.

“As the Bible states that the life of the flesh is in the blood (citing Leviticus in the Hebrew Scriptures) and not in brain wave activity, perhaps a compromise stipulation could be presented to ask the court to order that if Ms. McMath is disconnected from life support, if her heart continues to beat on its own that she should be maintained by fluid nutrition at the hospital’s expense, given that the hospital’s negligence is the proximate cause of this difficulty.”

Welty told WND that the Bible doesn’t define death as a cessation, reduction or absence of brain activity.

It defines life as being in the blood, and “as a closely held religious belief,” the family of the 13-year-old has a right to practice their faith.

Theologian: 'Brain-dead' doesn't really count
Offers to act as expert witness in case of 13-year-old incapacitated during surgery
Published: 15 hours ago
BOB UNRUH

Theologian: ?Brain-dead? doesn?t really count​

The culture of death pins the success of its agenda on “brain dead.” There is much about brain dead that always troubled me. Long before I knew that the Bible “. . . defines life as being in the blood . . .” I said there is a false belief that says thoughts, emotions, feelings, etc. originate in the brain. I’ve never been convinced that that is the case. When you cut your finger an impulse is sent to the brain telling you to feel the pain in your finger. The paralyzing fear a person feels in the pit of their stomach as their car skids towards an oncoming truck doesn’t originate in the brain. So who can deny that thoughts are only processed by the brain originating elsewhere as in pain or fear?

The brain is a processor and doesn’t feel pain. Even if it can be shown beyond a doubt that there is pain when the brain is not functioning the answer is painkillers not euthanasia.

Incidentally, those who would kill the brain dead always say the patient is not feeling pain.

NOTE: Sci-fi myth says that computers (machines) will someday be capable of original thought. Not only is it nonsense it is political propaganda. Computers are processors. They function like a brain. Computers are silent until someone sends them instructions. The artificial intelligence mavens will have to prove that a computer is feeling physical pain before they convince me they know what they are talking about.

In the unlikely event a court orders the hospital to keep Jahi McMath alive ——at the hospital’s expense —— you can bet that the euthanasia crowd will be screaming about the government interfering in our lives. Of course, it is not government interference when a judge orders the removal of a feeding tube.

How can anyone say that brain dead also excludes the pleasure and curiosity that triggers giggles in an infant? The euthanasia crowd will never admit to that possibility because they only speak for themselves. They assume that because they don’t want to live in a so-called vegetative state no one else does either.

What I’m trying to say is that a vegetative state is a physical thing with no proof that thoughts and emotions aren’t alive and well somewhere else. The Chinese always thought that the liver was the most important organ. Christians assigned courage and cowardliness to the heart: “He has the heart of a lion” or “He’s fainthearted.” To me that shows that there has always been a suspicion that thoughts and emotions reside someplace other than the brain. I never heard of any great body of thought that put the brain at the center of life. Those who believe in euthanasia are the only ones making that claim. I don’t consider their ideology a great body of thought.

Let’s take a look at euthanasia’s connection to totalitarianism.

Conquerors throughout history were totalitarians. For the most part they conquered and enslaved the vanquished. The conquered treated as spoils of war is pretty much a thing of the past. Totalitarians have accepted cheap labor as the inevitable substitute for slavery. Cheap labor is so plentiful it forced totalitarians to take an approach other than conquest in their drive to control life and the Earth’s resources. When slavery began to disappear totalitarians flirted with the pseudo-science of eugenics. Now they’ve moved their efforts to euthanasia. Euthanasia is an incremental step toward resurrecting eugenics.

As in everything else, there is never a shortage of misguided sign-carriers willing to demonstrate against their own best interests —— life itself.

The law

The person who actually pulls the plug commits murder. Let me explain with a slightly edited excerpt from a message I posted about Terri Schiavo back in March of 2005:

I’d like to know who removed the feeding tube? And why the hell weren’t they arrested? TV viewers are bombarded with government propaganda depicting hard-hitting cops and district attorneys ever-ready to lockup the bad guys, yet someone commits a deliberate act that will lead to the death of another person and there are no cops or district attorneys in sight. In fact, the policeman on duty in Terri’s room was told to leave the room so he would not be a witness called to identify the murderer. In addition, judges in Terri’s case may very well be guilty of aiding and abetting a premeditated homicide.

Someone in authority at Terri’s hospice should have told those judges: “If you want that feeding tube removed come and do it yourself.” The Socialist priests in our courts issue orders while making damn sure that real blood doesn’t soil their precious robes. And don’t compare the court-ordered murder of an innocent woman to the execution of a criminal after a decade or more of tax dollar funded appeals. In any event Terri Schiavo didn’t hurt anyone, but she was killed without her consent anyway.

I know that if I worked at Terri’s hospice and someone ordered me to remove the lady’s feeding tube I would have told them where to shove the job. By exonerating the person that did the act, are not the courts endorsing the Nazi defense? I was following orders. Bottom line: The courts must always judge the act not the justification.

One of the arguments I’ve heard for killing Terri cites her Right to abstain from receiving artificial life support. The word abstain was actually used. Of all of the sick perversions in this tragedy the abstain claim is the worst; more so since no one knew what Terri wanted. The government does not allow Americans to abstain from anything these days, now it appears that an exception has been made to accommodate the Grim Reaper.

And of course there is always this: “America is a nation of laws.” What a joke that is. America is a nation of judges issuing orders. Neither judges nor anyone else had the Right to end Terri’s life just because she couldn’t speak for herself.

Finally, the Left is forever citing the Nazis as the only villains in the twentieth century. Some try to equate conservatives to Nazis, yet a close look always shows that Socialists are the Nazi clones. Not punishing Terri Schiavo’s murderer is only one such example.

Everything I said about Terri Schiavo can be applied to Jahi McMath.

NOTE: Under no circumstances should a free people ever give their government the authority to kill for “humane reasons.” Governments begin with whatever is fashionable ——brain dead in America’s case —— and end with killing the physically and mentally impaired. Fashionable abortion is already evolving into killing children in the Netherlands. “Quality of life” replaces brain dead as justification. That’s why I’ve always said the Nazi occupation in WWII was the last good thing to happen in Holland.

Let me close with a bit of gallows humor:

Parts of the human body had a meeting to decide who was in charge.

"I should be in charge," said the brain, "because I run all the body's systems, so without me nothing would happen."

"I should be in charge," said the blood, "because I circulate oxygen all over so without me you'd all waste away."

"I should be in charge," said the stomach," because I process food and give all of you energy."

"I should be in charge," said the legs, "because I carry the body wherever it needs to go."

"I should be in charge," said the eyes, "because I allow the body to see where it goes."

"I should be in charge," said the rectum, "Because I'm responsible for waste removal."

All the other body parts laughed at the rectum and insulted him; so in a huff he shut down tight.

Within a few days, the brain had a terrible headache, the stomach was bloated, the legs got wobbly, the eyes got watery, and the blood was toxic. They quickly decided that the rectum should be the boss.

The moral of the story?

The asshole is usually in charge!​

"All-powerful doctors and hospitals did it too her." Really? It's called an accident. Mistakes happen and sometimes people just don't do well during operations. All operations have risks.

The girl bled profusely and suffered cardiac arrest. How did doctors do that?

"They will all line up to end Jahi’s life." She's dead, period.

Who gives two-shits how a bible defines death? This ain't a church.


"What I’m trying to say is that a vegetative state is a physical thing with no proof that thoughts and emotions aren’t alive and well somewhere else."

Is she in a veggie state? Doctors do not say that.

Terri Schiavo's brain: An autopsy on Terri Schiavo, the severely brain damaged woman whose death sparked an intense debate over a person's right-to-die, showed that her brain was severely "atrophied," weighed less than half of what it should have, and that no treatment could have reversed the damage. http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/15/national/15cnd-schiavo.html?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Brain death shouldn't matter or define life. We don't bury conservatives afterall. ...Sorry, humour is my defense mechanism.

This girl's state has gone on now for over 2 weeks. If the parents wanna pay to keep her body functioning, except her brain, that's up to them. I'm unfamiliar with brain death issues as to whether anyone's ever 'come back,' but if her heart's pumping blood to her brain then it has the oxygen it needs. Maybe that'd be sufficient to stave off brain damage. But I think we're well into uncharted territory now and any miraculous recovery would be unprecedented. And even if brain activity resumed it's a question how damaged her brain would be. Whether enough of her would be left that she's like the daughter she was before.

Everything in the body heals with time, and as we know now even brain cells can grow back contrary to what some have been saying on tv. Google 'can neurons grow back?' to see the latest discoveries.

Google,
has anyone ever come back after being declared brain dead?

Seems there are some cases.

It's NOT up to them. That is the point. She is in the care of a hospital. The family cannot touch any machines and neither can anyone else. She is dead. The family needs to grieve and stop playing games with the lifers

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

The parents have said over and over..... they want god to work a miracle.

fine.... take her off human medical support....and LET GOD work it out.



All this is... is parents not wanting to let go....and also looking for a HUGE pay out. They got their second and third opinions.... and the nursing home that had initially said they would take her have backed out.....

I am all for sending her home with the parents.

sadly, a great post

 

[Luddly Neddite]

If she had the bleeding complication after the surgery it can be blaimed on he surgeon and if it was so profuse that it impaired securing the airway and resulted in cardiac arrest ( as it clearly did) - then it is a malpractice issue. Does not mean the surgeon did anything wrong, it just happes sometimes, but still will be blamed on the surgeon. it would be the hospital who will be sued, but the blame is basically on the surgeon for the bleeding and anesthesiologist for not securing airway fast enough - although there is nor real blame as they did not do anything wrong.

To Vox: You’re pretty quick to exonerate. Obviously, they did something wrong when they performed the operation in the first place.

No. It is just the nature of the operation - it poses this risk and it happens, albeit not extremely often but often enough to be encountered at least once if you are an ENT surgeon, an anesthesiologist or a critical care physician.

Making the wrong decision that left a young girl in a coma is malpractice as surely as is butchery in the operating room. .

No, it is not. only in the United States.edit- is girl would be removed from the mother because she let her be extremely obese which eventually resulted in severe obstructive sleep apnea which might be treated by tonsillectomy. If it would not be politically incorrect to scorn the mother on the early stage that she is making her daughter an elephant and if not because of the threat of the lawsuit - this girl might have never required the operation to start with. But a pediatrician can not tell the mother - stop making your baby to be an elephant and can not complain to the child protective services that the child is clearly neglected - because the pediatrician is going to be labelled racist and sued by ACLU
The 36 immunizations by the age of 24 months existing in American pediatrics only - is the part of defensive medicine.

And you are paying for it. Together with the greedy people who will sue for anything out of the ignorance and greed which are prevalent in this society - like you just have demonstrated by your post.

I do not pay for it - I do not have the debt for medical school and I can pick and choose what is going to be done to me or my family or not.

Enjoy and don't complain

I have no doubt that you don't have debt for any education beyond middle school. Hell, it might be the first honest thing you've ever written.

Your posts ignorant and vicious. If you hate the Constitution so much, why don't you go live in a backward country where the ACLU would not be allowed to fight for your rights.

Seriously. Why do the most ignorant always bash the ACLU? They have no idea what they're talking about and it always shows.

As for this case, the girl is dead but that does not mean an end to her rights or the rights of her family. They have a right to real answers. No pats on the head because the "doctors know best". If you had any real knowledge of medicine, you would know that.

 

[Vox]

To Vox: You’re pretty quick to exonerate. Obviously, they did something wrong when they performed the operation in the first place.

No. It is just the nature of the operation - it poses this risk and it happens, albeit not extremely often but often enough to be encountered at least once if you are an ENT surgeon, an anesthesiologist or a critical care physician.

Making the wrong decision that left a young girl in a coma is malpractice as surely as is butchery in the operating room. .

No, it is not. only in the United States.

the more you want ignorant people to get the money where they do not deserve it - the higher the price of EVERYTHING you are going to pay.

Including severe complications from the unnecessary procedures, treatments and medications of the defensive medicine. which includes cardiac arrests and brain deaths as well. In any society outside the US this girl would be removed from the mother because she let her be extremely obese which eventually resulted in severe obstructive sleep apnea which might be treated by tonsillectomy. If it would not be politically incorrect to scorn the mother on the early stage that she is making her daughter an elephant and if not because of the threat of the lawsuit - this girl might have never required the operation to start with. But a pediatrician can not tell the mother - stop making your baby to be an elephant and can not complain to the child protective services that the child is clearly neglected - because the pediatrician is going to be labelled racist and sued by ACLU
The 36 immunizations by the age of 24 months existing in American pediatrics only - is the part of defensive medicine.

And you are paying for it. Together with the greedy people who will sue for anything out of the ignorance and greed which are prevalent in this society - like you just have demonstrated by your post.

I do not pay for it - I do not have the debt for medical school and I can pick and choose what is going to be done to me or my family or not.

Enjoy and don't complain

I have no doubt that you don't have debt for any education beyond middle school. Hell, it might be the first honest thing you've ever written.

Your posts ignorant and vicious. If you hate the Constitution so much, why don't you go live in a backward country where the ACLU would not be allowed to fight for your rights.

Seriously. Why do the most ignorant always bash the ACLU? They have no idea what they're talking about and it always shows.

As for this case, the girl is dead but that does not mean an end to her rights or the rights of her family. They have a right to real answers. No pats on the head because the "doctors know best". If you had any real knowledge of medicine, you would know that.

fuck off, retard

 

[Flanders]

Making the wrong decision that left a young girl in a coma is malpractice as surely as is butchery in the operating room.

No, it is not. only in the United States.

To Vox: That’s the country I’m talking about. If you think there are fewer butchers in a foreign country go live there. Before you make the move you might want to check out the medical horror stories as a result of the protection the government gives to doctors.

Parenthetically, it’s exactly because of people like you that a majority of Americans better proceed with extreme caution when it comes to tort reform —— which is doublespeak for limiting the size of awards. You may not like lawyers, but they are the only thing standing between the weak and the butchers.

the more you want ignorant people to get the money where they do not deserve it - the higher the price of EVERYTHING you are going to pay.

To Vox: You just described socialized medicine.

Seriously. Why do the most ignorant always bash the ACLU?

To Luddly Neddite: Just to clarify my position. THE ACLU SUCKS. I was talking about trial lawyers.

 

[Vox]

Making the wrong decision that left a young girl in a coma is malpractice as surely as is butchery in the operating room.

No, it is not. only in the United States.

To Vox: That’s the country I’m talking about. If you think there are fewer butchers in a foreign country go live there. Before you make the move you might want to check out the medical horror stories as a result of the protection the government gives to doctors.

there are the exact amount of medical horror stories because of the defensive medicine in the US as there are on the other side. Or, maybe , even more here than there.

Nobody in the world pumps 36 vaccines in the child before he/she reaches 24 months of age.
And then Americans complain about the rise of autism and mental problems - enjoy the results of defensive medicine

the more you want ignorant people to get the money where they do not deserve it - the higher the price of EVERYTHING you are going to pay]

To Vox: You just described socialized medicine.

No I just described American medicine with trial lawyers on steroids. Socialized medicine has it's own ills, but having at least half of it as absolutely unnecessary defensive one is not one of those.

enjoy the trial medicine even more

 

[rightwinger]

Brain dead means dead