Can you be religious and pro science and technology?

[multificate]

I was raised on a farm. My dad always said," When I die whether I go to heaven or hell I pray that I'm always at the head of the canal."

Yes. I am.

.
.
... WHY ARE WE HERE?
there is a greater reality than we can imagine
this reality has a plan for each of us
for this reality to exist it must express
we are partners in this expression
for us to be able to complete our part
we chose to come to this world of apparent duality
the contrast provided will accelerate our ability
Envision yourself as a big circle
When you start your first quest your circle
is full of little circles of expectation
These expectations, when unmet, will tempt
you to see the other person as the cause
The other person is in fact your teacher,
reflecting back what you have given out
If you repeat this expectation long enough
you will come to a realization that it
is unprofitable
You will then eliminate it from your circle
It will be replaced by an experience
This experience will allow you to have
sympathy, compassion, empathy and love
for others still carrying this expectation
Experiences cannot be passed from one to
another, they must be earned
As you gather more and more experiences you
will become more and more 'enlightened'
You will no longer have to depend upon a
teacher, a book, or a friend for answers
Through your efforts of taking control of
your life, by controlling your thoughts,
taking responsibility for your actions,
and trying to make wherever you go better
than when you arrived, you will reach a
point in your development where others
will start coming to you for answers.
Then you will be able to share your
experiences with them and help them grow
By example you will become that teacher
you were searching for.
You are no longer the 'problem', you are
becoming the 'solution'
.
WHAT IS LOVE?
there is an eternal creative presence in each of us
our purpose is to allow this presence to express through us
this expression we call LOVE
by giving attention acknowledgment appreciation respect and admiration
to all we encounter
until it becomes so automatic we are no longer aware of doing it
we are becoming a channel for this expression
.
the more kindness we express the larger the channel we create
the 'one' flows through this channel to express itself
we can FEEL this flow and we call it Love
.
in the early stages of channel building
we will start feeling a 'tingling'
from the back of our neck down to our knees
we are being told we are 'in tune' with the 'one'
.
as our channel grows our feeling of Love grows
until we reach a point
where we are without loneliness emotion or desire
and we can remain in this state by expressing kindness
.
we all have felt this 'Love' flowing through us
we want it to stay but we don't know how
we mistakenly think another person can give this to us
.
this is not something that comes in yoga or meditation
it comes every time we express kindness
.
Mod Edit -- Cut this short in the interest of Copyright "fair use". Shouldn't even be here at all without a source attribution..


... FINDING PEACE
...
when we learn that we are at 'peace' twice each day
when we fall asleep and when we are waking up
and we can choose to be in this state of peace all of the time
then we 'know' peace is our very nature
and we must practice being in this state
anytime we allow the 'one' to express through us
we experience Love and are led to this place of peace
where fear loneliness emotions and contrast cannot exist
when we are attracted to someone we were drawn to them by the 'one'
the more we allow Love to flow through us the easier our life becomes
everything in our life unfolds for us without effort on our part
without this happening in our life we are in various degrees of stress
we can see this throughout our world because everyone is lonely
we are seeking attention from others with limited success
slowly we will realize our happiness peace contentment comes from the 'one'
as the world slowly realizes this harmony will begin to manifest

 

[multificate]

There is no conflict between science and a potential god.

The conflict is between science and organized religions.

.
... WHY ARE WE HERE?
there is a greater reality than we can imagine
this reality has a plan for each of us
for this reality to exist it must express
we are partners in this expression
for us to be able to complete our part
we chose to come to this world of apparent duality
the contrast provided will accelerate our ability
Envision yourself as a big circle
When you start your first quest your circle
is full of little circles of expectation
These expectations, when unmet, will tempt
you to see the other person as the cause
The other person is in fact your teacher,
reflecting back what you have given out
If you repeat this expectation long enough
you will come to a realization that it
is unprofitable
You will then eliminate it from your circle
It will be replaced by an experience
This experience will allow you to have
sympathy, compassion, empathy and love
for others still carrying this expectation
Experiences cannot be passed from one to
another, they must be earned
As you gather more and more experiences you
will become more and more 'enlightened'
You will no longer have to depend upon a
teacher, a book, or a friend for answers
Through your efforts of taking control of
your life, by controlling your thoughts,
taking responsibility for your actions,
and trying to make wherever you go better
than when you arrived, you will reach a
point in your development where others
will start coming to you for answers.
Then you will be able to share your
experiences with them and help them grow
By example you will become that teacher
you were searching for.
You are no longer the 'problem', you are
becoming the 'solution'

Mod Edit -- multificate If this is Copyrighted material -- it needs a link and a SHORTER pasted portion for "fair use". Also -- Please do not duplicate the exact same material as a reply to different posters in one thread.

 

[PK1]

...religion & science are not compatible regarding knowledge acquisition. Science is based on objective methods & evidence, while religion is based on dogma reflecting "easy button" explanations for simple-minded people.

Wrong.

Typical simple-minded retort.
You must be religious.

 

[PK1]

The Bible tells us that Creation was created in steps. Science tells us that the universe and everything in it was created in steps.

The Bible is mythological folklore.
How can anyone take that crap seriously in modern times?

Wow, thanks for sharing your personal opinion, masquerading as a statement of fact. I'll get right on not giving a crap about it.

My statement about the Bible folklore is fact. How is the Bible relevant in modern times other than group rituals?
Is there any knowledge there about how physical reality works ... other than cultural anthropology patterns?

 

[Divine Wind]

No, I say that like I'm speaking for NO denominations, but rather like I'm speaking for the overarching tenets of Christianity, irregardless of the individual quibblings of humans (which quibblings, by the way, would probably mean nothing to anyone outside the denominations involved, despite the secular world's insistence on trying to pretend they are huge, doctrinal schisms).

I just had this discussion with my husband the other night, as a matter of fact. As a significantly newer Christian than myself, he wanted to know why we - Christians - didn't simply focus on the teachings and ministry of Christ while he was on Earth, but instead also included studies of the many centuries before Christ - the Old Testament - and the writings of the Apostles who lived after Christ had already died, been resurrected, and returned to Heaven.

I told him there were two reasons. The first is context. The ministry of Christ means nothing whatsoever if you don't know the history of why He came to Earth to be born, crucified, and resurrected, and what the old Covenant was which His sacrifice replaced. (By the way, if you're asking yourself right now, "Covenant? What the heck is she talking about?" then you don't know enough about Christianity to be questioning it or criticizing it, and need to take yourself off to a really good church to be educated before propounding any further on the topic.)

The second is that Christianity is a fairly complex endeavor, a deeply textured and nuanced system of beliefs intended to be applied to every moment of one's day. (Yes, I'm quite aware that the secular world insists on telling us that it's something one does merely in a church building on Sundays that should be separated from everyday life, but no true Christian should be asking or caring what the world thinks on the subject.) Christ's ministry on Earth only lasted about three years, and was never intended to encompass everything God had to say to us on the subject of how to be a Christian. Therefore, we also include other divinely inspired writings and prophecies that He provided for us. (Please don't even bother trying to haggle with me over who was and wasn't divinely inspired, and who should and shouldn't be included in the Bible. I didn't ask for your opinion on what and who to believe, and won't listen to it even if you insist on giving it to me, anyway.)

And finally, in response to your second "question", I have little to no interest in your snarky little "Aha!" cherrypickings, as they only show the truth of the saying that "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing." If you truly wish to pick apart the beliefs of Christianity based on your vast knowledge of it, may I suggest that you first acquire that vast knowledge and then come back and see me?

Translation: Yes, I'm holier than thou because I say so, heathen. Yes, I eat pork and shrimp Po'boys like donuts at a Cop convention so quit acting so smart simply because you've read the Bible and have questions.

Sweetie, I have no desire to "pick apart the beliefs of Christianity", but I do question those believers who cherry-pick their beliefs. The message of Christ is "good news" and I agree using the OT as context is excellent, but when you cherry-pick out of the OT to support your own prejudices but disregard things like adultery and eating pork without justifying it, I question your honesty.

 

[Unkotare]

...religion & science are not compatible regarding knowledge acquisition. Science is based on objective methods & evidence, while religion is based on dogma reflecting "easy button" explanations for simple-minded people.

Wrong.

Typical simple-minded retort.
.....

Do you think that categorical, ignorant declarations deserve more?

 

[Mudda]

There is no conflict between science and a potential god.

The conflict is between science and organized religions.

.
... WHY ARE WE HERE?
there is a greater reality than we can imagine
this reality has a plan for each of us
for this reality to exist it must express
we are partners in this expression
for us to be able to complete our part
we chose to come to this world of apparent duality
the contrast provided will accelerate our ability
Envision yourself as a big circle
When you start your first quest your circle
is full of little circles of expectation
These expectations, when unmet, will tempt
you to see the other person as the cause
The other person is in fact your teacher,
reflecting back what you have given out
If you repeat this expectation long enough
you will come to a realization that it
is unprofitable
You will then eliminate it from your circle
It will be replaced by an experience
This experience will allow you to have
sympathy, compassion, empathy and love
for others still carrying this expectation
Experiences cannot be passed from one to
another, they must be earned
As you gather more and more experiences you
will become more and more 'enlightened'
You will no longer have to depend upon a
teacher, a book, or a friend for answers
Through your efforts of taking control of
your life, by controlling your thoughts,
taking responsibility for your actions,
and trying to make wherever you go better
than when you arrived, you will reach a
point in your development where others
will start coming to you for answers.
Then you will be able to share your
experiences with them and help them grow
By example you will become that teacher
you were searching for.
You are no longer the 'problem', you are
becoming the 'solution'
.
WHAT IS LOVE?
there is an eternal creative presence in each of us
our purpose is to allow this presence to express through us
this expression we call LOVE
by giving attention acknowledgment appreciation respect and admiration
to all we encounter
until it becomes so automatic we are no longer aware of doing it
we are becoming a channel for this expression
.
the more kindness we express the larger the channel we create
the 'one' flows through this channel to express itself
we can FEEL this flow and we call it Love
.
in the early stages of channel building
we will start feeling a 'tingling'
from the back of our neck down to our knees
we are being told we are 'in tune' with the 'one'
.
as our channel grows our feeling of Love grows
until we reach a point
where we are without loneliness emotion or desire
and we can remain in this state by expressing kindness
.
we all have felt this 'Love' flowing through us
we want it to stay but we don't know how
we mistakenly think another person can give this to us
.
this is not something that comes in yoga or meditation
it comes every time we express kindness
.
VIEWS OF WHAT LOVE IS
we may all have our different views of what love is
but we all know what it feels like when it expresses through us
it is not something we can create or give to another
but we can allow it to happen
when we are in a non threatening environment, like with family
we are able to lower our defenses and this opens up a channel
for love to flow through
if we were told to go love the man on the corner
we would be unable to do it
but if we went up the man on the corner
and expressed kindness towards him
we again would open up a channel for love to flow through
love can happen at any moment, we can't control when
but we can create the conditions for love to happen
there is nothing as powerful as the effect of love flowing through us
we all want it to happen, but we think we don't know how
yet, we are the ones that allow it to happen
.
.................................................
.................................................
.
spirit is expressing through us all the time
spirit needs all of us to complete the expression
this expression of spirit through us we feel as Love
we can join spirit as a partner in this expression and be at peace
intuition is one word we use to acknowledge we are being spoken to by spirit
...
........THE JOURNEY TO ENLIGHTENMENT
........BECOMING A MORE LOVING PERSON
.....DISCOVERING EVERYONE IS YOUR FRIEND
...
................ STEP 1 ................
when someone upsets you seek a quiet place
calm down by visualizing LOVE flowing through you
................ STEP 2 ................
write down what you think the other person was trying to tell you
................ STEP 3 ................
return and thank him for having the courage and taking the time
to point out areas for you to improve making you a more loving person
this step is very very difficult as you must first overcome your fear
................ STEP 4 ................
show him your list of ideas he suggested
ask him if this is what he meant to tell you
he will be happy to point out where your list is correct
and where it needs to be revised
thank him again for his suggestions
and tell him you will be working on them
and want him to keep an eye on you
and let you know when you need more help
................ STEP 5 ................
return to your quiet place
divide the list into three piles
put the most difficult one's on your mental shelf
to be worked on when you are able to address them
make a second almost able to do pile
now start working on the easiest pile
................ STEP 6 ................
watch the other person’s reaction to your efforts
to remove your faults using his suggestions
you have turned an enemy into a teacher into a friend
................ STEP 7 ................
when the student is ready the teacher will appear
*** and you have just met one ***
................ STEP 8 ................
anytime someone upsets you repeat these steps
you will eventually reach a point
where you will be seeking out people who can upset you
and they will become harder and harder to find
...
... ABSOLUTE JUSTICE
...
your thoughts are magnets attracting similar magnets in others
the two coming in contact will dissipate each other
result will be as pleasant or unpleasant as the thought you created
this is an absolute system of justice
and by your choices you are your own judge
...
... MILE MARKERS ON YOUR JOURNEY
...
self........................individual consciousness
self centered.........focused upon your own interests
self serving...........advancing your own interests
self willed...............tenacious adherence to your own interests
self doubt..............questioning your direction
self judgment.........evaluating your direction
self pity..................seeing your lack of concern for others
self evaluation.......determining your worth
self mastery...........removing ego from all decisions
self less.................your primary concern is your effect upon others
self........................group consciousness
.
all of us will reach this last 'self'
where we are over qualified to be famous
and under qualified to be invisible
by allowing love to express through us
we are becoming a quiet helper a teacher
some call these angels
...
... LIVING AN IMPERSONAL LIFE
...
use 'i' and 'me' with an apology
'you' with a compliment
refer to 'self' by first name
...
... INTEGRITY
...
integrity has he who is what he believes others should be
...
... IS THE CUP HALF FULL OR HALF EMPTY ?
...
assume the cup is our mind
and can hold only negative and positive thoughts
if it is half full of negative thoughts
trying to remove them one by one
we end up with an empty cup
but if we keep putting positive thoughts into the cup
each positive will push a negative one out of the cup
we end up with a cup full of positive thoughts
...
... EXPERIENCE
...
understanding (belief) is what you read or were told
the stove is hot
knowing (faith) is the 'action' of personal discovery
touching the stove
the difference between understanding and knowing is 'experience'
and each new experience creates more compassion and less fear
moving you closer to your 'ideal'
...
... IDEAL
...
a moral guide post or compass
i am light going to meet light and only goodness can result
let there be more love in the world and let some flow through me
I AM expressing I AM THAT I AM
create your own ideal
refer to it frequently
and only make decisions that match this 'ideal'
...
... CRITICISM AND SUGGESTION ARE THE SAME WORD
...
criticism -- being reminded you are not following your 'ideal'
and unhappy you were reminded
suggestion --being reminded you are not following your 'ideal'
and thankful someone took the time to tell you
seek out people who can upset you
and thank them for pointing out your faults
refer to 'Discovering Everyone Is Your Friend' above
...
... HOW DO YOU FIND A TRUE TEACHER ?
...
criticize him
a 'true' teacher will never react feeling it was a criticism
he will know it was a suggestion
to him criticism and suggestion are the same word
there will be a pause
as he analyzes your input
using the eight step program above
then he will thank you
we have found a friend, a role model without emotion
...
... FORGIVENESS CLOSURE
...
you cannot forgive another only yourself
for holding such anger against another
forgiveness happens when you accept others
anger attracts anger
calm attracts peace 'closure'
'Absolute Justice' will establish balance
...
... JUST A SUGGESTION
...
"be more aware of my presence"
"i am your voice of intuition"
"i will guide you when you listen"
...
... LOVE
...
there is an eternal creative presence in each of us
our purpose is to allow this presence to express through us
this expression we call LOVE
by giving attention acknowledgment appreciation respect and admiration
to all we encounter
until it becomes so automatic we are no longer aware of doing it
we have become a channel for this expression
by giving what we wanted to receive
we became that which we sought
…
… THE SILENCE
…
yoga and meditation are the first steps to becoming quiet
our goal is to merge our consciousness with the ‘one’
this is a five step process to removing what is temporary
by going deeper and deeper into our consciousness
level 1) awake - when the tiger attacks we react in fear to the threat
this must be our permanent home
level 2) sleep - detached from our body we discover
when the tiger attacks we react in fear to the threat
they both can’t be our permanent home, we go deeper
level 3) dreamless sleep, there is no tiger, there is no fear
we are detached from our body and mind, this must be our home
level 4) we join with our 'self' and cannot go any deeper
we are pure consciousness
level 5) we discover there are many 'selfs' of which we are but one
the 'one' is expressing through us, our focus is absolute without time
we are 'home', our whole life changes
becoming easier, more fulfilling, healthier
we are only responsible for remaining 'receptive'
looking forward to our next assignment
this is called
…
… ENLIGHTENMENT
… THE AWAKENING
.
.
...
... FILLING THE 'VOID' WITHIN
...
we each have an 'empty' spot within
and we spend our time seeking to fill this emptiness
we call this being 'lonely'
imagine we each have a 'love' tank within us
and the degree of empty or lonely we feel
is how much 'love' we have in our tank
happy, content, sad, worried, depressed all describe this
...
we say there are 'good' and 'bad' people
these words only describe how much love is in someone's tank
our purpose is to acquire more love and this happens
each time we allow the 'presence' to express through us
...
we are not here to change others
we are here to change ourself
others will notice this 'enlightened' change
and through admiration of our efforts
they will seek to make similar changes in their lives
and when they encounter difficulties
they will ask us how we were able to overcome them
we have become the 'teacher' we have always sought
...
... FINDING PEACE
...
when we learn that we are at 'peace' twice each day
when we fall asleep and when we are waking up
and we can choose to be in this state of peace all of the time
then we 'know' peace is our very nature
and we must practice being in this state
anytime we allow the 'one' to express through us
we experience Love and are led to this place of peace
where fear loneliness emotions and contrast cannot exist
when we are attracted to someone we were drawn to them by the 'one'
the more we allow Love to flow through us the easier our life becomes
everything in our life unfolds for us without effort on our part
without this happening in our life we are in various degrees of stress
we can see this throughout our world because everyone is lonely
we are seeking attention from others with limited success
slowly we will realize our happiness peace contentment comes from the 'one'
as the world slowly realizes this harmony will begin to manifest

I don't read copy&paste. Please try again.

 

[Unkotare]

The Bible tells us that Creation was created in steps. Science tells us that the universe and everything in it was created in steps.

The Bible is mythological folklore.
How can anyone take that crap seriously in modern times?

Wow, thanks for sharing your personal opinion, masquerading as a statement of fact. I'll get right on not giving a crap about it.

My statement about the Bible folklore is fact. How is the Bible relevant in modern times other than group rituals?
.....?

You admit ignorance, but insist that your objective claims be taken as "fact"? Perhaps you don't understand the terms in use.

 

[RWNJ]

.
all 12 fragments - 400 BCE is not the 4th century bible, try 1CE > - and do they vilify the writings excluded in the 4th century. where are your etchings in stone made during the period for the events from early to mid 1st century. the corruption does not need to be rampant to be effective. they had their way in the 4th the same as having their way from that time to the present.

That's funny, because they specifically compared the current day, in my hands, Bible, to the fragments in the dead sea scrolls and they matched up.

So you say they are not the same... but the fact remains they are.

The earliest fragments of the bible is dated to several generations after the facts where supposed to have happened.

So, you are repeating yourself. So I will repeat myself.

The fragments dated 400 BCE, match exactly what I'm reading in my Bible today. Word for word.

This is 'fact'.

I'm talking about the NT. Written several generations after the facts.

You said Bible. That means..... the Bible.

Further, there is no reason to assume that if the old testament, which of course is much older, is accurate to 400 BCE, that somehow the new testament, which is not nearly as old, is less accurate.

Moreover, the oldest semi-complete text is Papyrus 46, which is currently at the University of Michigan. This text contains all of Paul's letters, Hebrews and other parts of the New Testament Bible.

P46 is dated at 200 CE. That means it was only 130 years removed from the authors, since Hebrew was written 70 CE.

Now compare that to any other text of history.

The Gallic Wars By Julius Caesar: Written 75 BCE. Oldest manuscript 900 CE.

The Histories of Herodotus: Written 400 BCE. Oldest manuscript 900 CE.

Homer’s Iliad: Written 800 BCE. Oldest manuscripts 400 BCE.

Annals by Roman historian and senator Tacitus: Written 100 CE. Oldest manuscript 1100 CE.

Are you claiming that Herodotus, The Gallic Wars, Homer, and Tacitus are all discredited? You would be laughed off the planet. No one anywhere would take you seriously.

Moreover, we only have 640 manuscripts of Homer. That's considered a lot.

We have over 5300 manuscripts of the Bible.

For you, or anyone to question the integrity of the Bible we have today, is ridiculous, because you would also have to completely write off every other ancient text we have.

Your wasting your time. There were people who saw Jesus perform miracles, yet they still rejected Him. No amount of evidence will convince someone like him. Reprobate minds. You can't reach them. Time to shake the dust off your feet, brother.

 

[Mudda]

That's funny, because they specifically compared the current day, in my hands, Bible, to the fragments in the dead sea scrolls and they matched up.

So you say they are not the same... but the fact remains they are.

The earliest fragments of the bible is dated to several generations after the facts where supposed to have happened.

So, you are repeating yourself. So I will repeat myself.

The fragments dated 400 BCE, match exactly what I'm reading in my Bible today. Word for word.

This is 'fact'.

I'm talking about the NT. Written several generations after the facts.

You said Bible. That means..... the Bible.

Further, there is no reason to assume that if the old testament, which of course is much older, is accurate to 400 BCE, that somehow the new testament, which is not nearly as old, is less accurate.

Moreover, the oldest semi-complete text is Papyrus 46, which is currently at the University of Michigan. This text contains all of Paul's letters, Hebrews and other parts of the New Testament Bible.

P46 is dated at 200 CE. That means it was only 130 years removed from the authors, since Hebrew was written 70 CE.

Now compare that to any other text of history.

The Gallic Wars By Julius Caesar: Written 75 BCE. Oldest manuscript 900 CE.

The Histories of Herodotus: Written 400 BCE. Oldest manuscript 900 CE.

Homer’s Iliad: Written 800 BCE. Oldest manuscripts 400 BCE.

Annals by Roman historian and senator Tacitus: Written 100 CE. Oldest manuscript 1100 CE.

Are you claiming that Herodotus, The Gallic Wars, Homer, and Tacitus are all discredited? You would be laughed off the planet. No one anywhere would take you seriously.

Moreover, we only have 640 manuscripts of Homer. That's considered a lot.

We have over 5300 manuscripts of the Bible.

For you, or anyone to question the integrity of the Bible we have today, is ridiculous, because you would also have to completely write off every other ancient text we have.

Your wasting your time. There were people who saw Jesus perform miracles, yet they still rejected Him. No amount of evidence will convince someone like him. Reprobate minds. You can't reach them. Time to shake the dust off your feet, brother.

There's no actual proof that Jesus performed any miracles.

 

[PK1]

The Bible tells us that Creation was created in steps. Science tells us that the universe and everything in it was created in steps.

The Bible is mythological folklore.
How can anyone take that crap seriously in modern times?

Wow, thanks for sharing your personal opinion, masquerading as a statement of fact. I'll get right on not giving a crap about it.

My statement about the Bible folklore is fact. How is the Bible relevant in modern times other than group rituals?
.....?

You admit ignorance, but insist that your objective claims be taken as "fact"? Perhaps you don't understand the terms in use.

It appears you don't understand scientific agnosticism. If you make a claim, it's up to you to support that claim. Are there any claims of knowledge in the Bible supported by modern criteria?

The null hypothesis is: the Bible represents only primitive folklore.
Unless anyone can provide evidence to the contrary, folklore it is. as is the Quran ... and all religious claims.

 

[RWNJ]

The Bible tells us that Creation was created in steps. Science tells us that the universe and everything in it was created in steps.

The Bible is mythological folklore.
How can anyone take that crap seriously in modern times?

Wow, thanks for sharing your personal opinion, masquerading as a statement of fact. I'll get right on not giving a crap about it.

My statement about the Bible folklore is fact. How is the Bible relevant in modern times other than group rituals?
.....?

You admit ignorance, but insist that your objective claims be taken as "fact"? Perhaps you don't understand the terms in use.

It appears you don't understand scientific agnosticism. If you make a claim, it's up to you to support that claim. Are there any claims of knowledge in the Bible supported by modern criteria?

The null hypothesis is: the Bible represents only primitive folklore.
Unless anyone can provide evidence to the contrary, folklore it is. as is the Quran ... and all religious claims.

You are wrong. The Bible is a historical document. One that has never been proven wrong about what it says.

 

[ding]

Only people like you. People like me say it is allegorical and is true.

So if it's true, how did Noah get marsupials from OZ and back?

You really struggle with the concept of allegory, don't you?

Is the Virgin birth an allegory?

I don't think so.

Do you watch Blackish? It is a very well written show. The uncle and oldest daughter were atheists. In the end the girl converted back to theism. But they didn't try to prove Christianity. When someone tried to suggest the stories were not believable the grandmother yelled oh lord jesus and they changed the subject.

I have decided if you believe in God you need it. It's in you and whatever that gene is, people who choose to believe need it and should not be denied it. I just don't want cults pushing their ways. Not Muslims Christians Jews or even us atheists. I would never mock someone in person. These threads it's fair game because you know everyone here is looking for a discussion.

My hope is that people wise up. I think it's good people are not swallowing organized religion because I think they are a big scam. But belief in generic God is completely fine. Generic God doesn't have 78 virgins waiting if you blow yourself up, if you know what I mean

Articles: How the Left Moved into Religion

 

[ding]

.
all 12 fragments - 400 BCE is not the 4th century bible, try 1CE > - and do they vilify the writings excluded in the 4th century. where are your etchings in stone made during the period for the events from early to mid 1st century. the corruption does not need to be rampant to be effective. they had their way in the 4th the same as having their way from that time to the present.

That's funny, because they specifically compared the current day, in my hands, Bible, to the fragments in the dead sea scrolls and they matched up.

So you say they are not the same... but the fact remains they are.

The earliest fragments of the bible is dated to several generations after the facts where supposed to have happened.

So, you are repeating yourself. So I will repeat myself.

The fragments dated 400 BCE, match exactly what I'm reading in my Bible today. Word for word.

This is 'fact'.

I'm talking about the NT. Written several generations after the facts.

You said Bible. That means..... the Bible.

Further, there is no reason to assume that if the old testament, which of course is much older, is accurate to 400 BCE, that somehow the new testament, which is not nearly as old, is less accurate.

Moreover, the oldest semi-complete text is Papyrus 46, which is currently at the University of Michigan. This text contains all of Paul's letters, Hebrews and other parts of the New Testament Bible.

P46 is dated at 200 CE. That means it was only 130 years removed from the authors, since Hebrew was written 70 CE.

Now compare that to any other text of history.

The Gallic Wars By Julius Caesar: Written 75 BCE. Oldest manuscript 900 CE.

The Histories of Herodotus: Written 400 BCE. Oldest manuscript 900 CE.

Homer’s Iliad: Written 800 BCE. Oldest manuscripts 400 BCE.

Annals by Roman historian and senator Tacitus: Written 100 CE. Oldest manuscript 1100 CE.

Are you claiming that Herodotus, The Gallic Wars, Homer, and Tacitus are all discredited? You would be laughed off the planet. No one anywhere would take you seriously.

Moreover, we only have 640 manuscripts of Homer. That's considered a lot.

We have over 5300 manuscripts of the Bible.

For you, or anyone to question the integrity of the Bible we have today, is ridiculous, because you would also have to completely write off every other ancient text we have.

5300 written in Greek. More than 19,000 in other languages.

 

[Andylusion]

There is no conflict between science and a potential god.

The conflict is between science and organized religions.

.
... WHY ARE WE HERE?
there is a greater reality than we can imagine
this reality has a plan for each of us
for this reality to exist it must express
we are partners in this expression
for us to be able to complete our part
we chose to come to this world of apparent duality
the contrast provided will accelerate our ability
Envision yourself as a big circle
When you start your first quest your circle
is full of little circles of expectation
These expectations, when unmet, will tempt
you to see the other person as the cause
The other person is in fact your teacher,
reflecting back what you have given out
If you repeat this expectation long enough
you will come to a realization that it
is unprofitable
You will then eliminate it from your circle
It will be replaced by an experience
This experience will allow you to have
sympathy, compassion, empathy and love
for others still carrying this expectation
Experiences cannot be passed from one to
another, they must be earned
As you gather more and more experiences you
will become more and more 'enlightened'
You will no longer have to depend upon a
teacher, a book, or a friend for answers
Through your efforts of taking control of
your life, by controlling your thoughts,
taking responsibility for your actions,
and trying to make wherever you go better
than when you arrived, you will reach a
point in your development where others
will start coming to you for answers.
Then you will be able to share your
experiences with them and help them grow
By example you will become that teacher
you were searching for.
You are no longer the 'problem', you are
becoming the 'solution'
.
WHAT IS LOVE?
there is an eternal creative presence in each of us
our purpose is to allow this presence to express through us
this expression we call LOVE
by giving attention acknowledgment appreciation respect and admiration
to all we encounter
until it becomes so automatic we are no longer aware of doing it
we are becoming a channel for this expression
.
the more kindness we express the larger the channel we create
the 'one' flows through this channel to express itself
we can FEEL this flow and we call it Love
.
in the early stages of channel building
we will start feeling a 'tingling'
from the back of our neck down to our knees
we are being told we are 'in tune' with the 'one'
.
as our channel grows our feeling of Love grows
until we reach a point
where we are without loneliness emotion or desire
and we can remain in this state by expressing kindness
.
we all have felt this 'Love' flowing through us
we want it to stay but we don't know how
we mistakenly think another person can give this to us
.
this is not something that comes in yoga or meditation
it comes every time we express kindness
.
VIEWS OF WHAT LOVE IS
we may all have our different views of what love is
but we all know what it feels like when it expresses through us
it is not something we can create or give to another
but we can allow it to happen
when we are in a non threatening environment, like with family
we are able to lower our defenses and this opens up a channel
for love to flow through
if we were told to go love the man on the corner
we would be unable to do it
but if we went up the man on the corner
and expressed kindness towards him
we again would open up a channel for love to flow through
love can happen at any moment, we can't control when
but we can create the conditions for love to happen
there is nothing as powerful as the effect of love flowing through us
we all want it to happen, but we think we don't know how
yet, we are the ones that allow it to happen
.
.................................................
.................................................
.
spirit is expressing through us all the time
spirit needs all of us to complete the expression
this expression of spirit through us we feel as Love
we can join spirit as a partner in this expression and be at peace
intuition is one word we use to acknowledge we are being spoken to by spirit
...
........THE JOURNEY TO ENLIGHTENMENT
........BECOMING A MORE LOVING PERSON
.....DISCOVERING EVERYONE IS YOUR FRIEND
...
................ STEP 1 ................
when someone upsets you seek a quiet place
calm down by visualizing LOVE flowing through you
................ STEP 2 ................
write down what you think the other person was trying to tell you
................ STEP 3 ................
return and thank him for having the courage and taking the time
to point out areas for you to improve making you a more loving person
this step is very very difficult as you must first overcome your fear
................ STEP 4 ................
show him your list of ideas he suggested
ask him if this is what he meant to tell you
he will be happy to point out where your list is correct
and where it needs to be revised
thank him again for his suggestions
and tell him you will be working on them
and want him to keep an eye on you
and let you know when you need more help
................ STEP 5 ................
return to your quiet place
divide the list into three piles
put the most difficult one's on your mental shelf
to be worked on when you are able to address them
make a second almost able to do pile
now start working on the easiest pile
................ STEP 6 ................
watch the other person’s reaction to your efforts
to remove your faults using his suggestions
you have turned an enemy into a teacher into a friend
................ STEP 7 ................
when the student is ready the teacher will appear
*** and you have just met one ***
................ STEP 8 ................
anytime someone upsets you repeat these steps
you will eventually reach a point
where you will be seeking out people who can upset you
and they will become harder and harder to find
...
... ABSOLUTE JUSTICE
...
your thoughts are magnets attracting similar magnets in others
the two coming in contact will dissipate each other
result will be as pleasant or unpleasant as the thought you created
this is an absolute system of justice
and by your choices you are your own judge
...
... MILE MARKERS ON YOUR JOURNEY
...
self........................individual consciousness
self centered.........focused upon your own interests
self serving...........advancing your own interests
self willed...............tenacious adherence to your own interests
self doubt..............questioning your direction
self judgment.........evaluating your direction
self pity..................seeing your lack of concern for others
self evaluation.......determining your worth
self mastery...........removing ego from all decisions
self less.................your primary concern is your effect upon others
self........................group consciousness
.
all of us will reach this last 'self'
where we are over qualified to be famous
and under qualified to be invisible
by allowing love to express through us
we are becoming a quiet helper a teacher
some call these angels
...
... LIVING AN IMPERSONAL LIFE
...
use 'i' and 'me' with an apology
'you' with a compliment
refer to 'self' by first name
...
... INTEGRITY
...
integrity has he who is what he believes others should be
...
... IS THE CUP HALF FULL OR HALF EMPTY ?
...
assume the cup is our mind
and can hold only negative and positive thoughts
if it is half full of negative thoughts
trying to remove them one by one
we end up with an empty cup
but if we keep putting positive thoughts into the cup
each positive will push a negative one out of the cup
we end up with a cup full of positive thoughts
...
... EXPERIENCE
...
understanding (belief) is what you read or were told
the stove is hot
knowing (faith) is the 'action' of personal discovery
touching the stove
the difference between understanding and knowing is 'experience'
and each new experience creates more compassion and less fear
moving you closer to your 'ideal'
...
... IDEAL
...
a moral guide post or compass
i am light going to meet light and only goodness can result
let there be more love in the world and let some flow through me
I AM expressing I AM THAT I AM
create your own ideal
refer to it frequently
and only make decisions that match this 'ideal'
...
... CRITICISM AND SUGGESTION ARE THE SAME WORD
...
criticism -- being reminded you are not following your 'ideal'
and unhappy you were reminded
suggestion --being reminded you are not following your 'ideal'
and thankful someone took the time to tell you
seek out people who can upset you
and thank them for pointing out your faults
refer to 'Discovering Everyone Is Your Friend' above
...
... HOW DO YOU FIND A TRUE TEACHER ?
...
criticize him
a 'true' teacher will never react feeling it was a criticism
he will know it was a suggestion
to him criticism and suggestion are the same word
there will be a pause
as he analyzes your input
using the eight step program above
then he will thank you
we have found a friend, a role model without emotion
...
... FORGIVENESS CLOSURE
...
you cannot forgive another only yourself
for holding such anger against another
forgiveness happens when you accept others
anger attracts anger
calm attracts peace 'closure'
'Absolute Justice' will establish balance
...
... JUST A SUGGESTION
...
"be more aware of my presence"
"i am your voice of intuition"
"i will guide you when you listen"
...
... LOVE
...
there is an eternal creative presence in each of us
our purpose is to allow this presence to express through us
this expression we call LOVE
by giving attention acknowledgment appreciation respect and admiration
to all we encounter
until it becomes so automatic we are no longer aware of doing it
we have become a channel for this expression
by giving what we wanted to receive
we became that which we sought
…
… THE SILENCE
…
yoga and meditation are the first steps to becoming quiet
our goal is to merge our consciousness with the ‘one’
this is a five step process to removing what is temporary
by going deeper and deeper into our consciousness
level 1) awake - when the tiger attacks we react in fear to the threat
this must be our permanent home
level 2) sleep - detached from our body we discover
when the tiger attacks we react in fear to the threat
they both can’t be our permanent home, we go deeper
level 3) dreamless sleep, there is no tiger, there is no fear
we are detached from our body and mind, this must be our home
level 4) we join with our 'self' and cannot go any deeper
we are pure consciousness
level 5) we discover there are many 'selfs' of which we are but one
the 'one' is expressing through us, our focus is absolute without time
we are 'home', our whole life changes
becoming easier, more fulfilling, healthier
we are only responsible for remaining 'receptive'
looking forward to our next assignment
this is called
…
… ENLIGHTENMENT
… THE AWAKENING
.
.
...
... FILLING THE 'VOID' WITHIN
...
we each have an 'empty' spot within
and we spend our time seeking to fill this emptiness
we call this being 'lonely'
imagine we each have a 'love' tank within us
and the degree of empty or lonely we feel
is how much 'love' we have in our tank
happy, content, sad, worried, depressed all describe this
...
we say there are 'good' and 'bad' people
these words only describe how much love is in someone's tank
our purpose is to acquire more love and this happens
each time we allow the 'presence' to express through us
...
we are not here to change others
we are here to change ourself
others will notice this 'enlightened' change
and through admiration of our efforts
they will seek to make similar changes in their lives
and when they encounter difficulties
they will ask us how we were able to overcome them
we have become the 'teacher' we have always sought
...
... FINDING PEACE
...
when we learn that we are at 'peace' twice each day
when we fall asleep and when we are waking up
and we can choose to be in this state of peace all of the time
then we 'know' peace is our very nature
and we must practice being in this state
anytime we allow the 'one' to express through us
we experience Love and are led to this place of peace
where fear loneliness emotions and contrast cannot exist
when we are attracted to someone we were drawn to them by the 'one'
the more we allow Love to flow through us the easier our life becomes
everything in our life unfolds for us without effort on our part
without this happening in our life we are in various degrees of stress
we can see this throughout our world because everyone is lonely
we are seeking attention from others with limited success
slowly we will realize our happiness peace contentment comes from the 'one'
as the world slowly realizes this harmony will begin to manifest

You need to learn to follow the forum rules. You can't simply copy and paste posts into the forum. This is place for discussion, not simply pasting into the forum other people's answers.

Second, you can't spam the board with a dozen identical posts. If you have nothing new to add... shut up.

 

[PK1]

The Bible is mythological folklore.
How can anyone take that crap seriously in modern times?

Wow, thanks for sharing your personal opinion, masquerading as a statement of fact. I'll get right on not giving a crap about it.

My statement about the Bible folklore is fact. How is the Bible relevant in modern times other than group rituals?
.....?

You admit ignorance, but insist that your objective claims be taken as "fact"? Perhaps you don't understand the terms in use.

It appears you don't understand scientific agnosticism. If you make a claim, it's up to you to support that claim. Are there any claims of knowledge in the Bible supported by modern criteria?

The null hypothesis is: the Bible represents only primitive folklore.
Unless anyone can provide evidence to the contrary, folklore it is. as is the Quran ... and all religious claims.

You are wrong. The Bible is a historical document. One that has never been proven wrong about what it says.

Of course all the Bible versions are historical documents, as is written folklore.

 

[RWNJ]

Wow, thanks for sharing your personal opinion, masquerading as a statement of fact. I'll get right on not giving a crap about it.

My statement about the Bible folklore is fact. How is the Bible relevant in modern times other than group rituals?
.....?

You admit ignorance, but insist that your objective claims be taken as "fact"? Perhaps you don't understand the terms in use.

It appears you don't understand scientific agnosticism. If you make a claim, it's up to you to support that claim. Are there any claims of knowledge in the Bible supported by modern criteria?

The null hypothesis is: the Bible represents only primitive folklore.
Unless anyone can provide evidence to the contrary, folklore it is. as is the Quran ... and all religious claims.

You are wrong. The Bible is a historical document. One that has never been proven wrong about what it says.

Of course all the Bible versions are historical documents, as is written folklore.

There is only ONE Bible. Don't know why you are going on about different versions.

 

[Andylusion]

Wow, thanks for sharing your personal opinion, masquerading as a statement of fact. I'll get right on not giving a crap about it.

My statement about the Bible folklore is fact. How is the Bible relevant in modern times other than group rituals?
.....?

You admit ignorance, but insist that your objective claims be taken as "fact"? Perhaps you don't understand the terms in use.

It appears you don't understand scientific agnosticism. If you make a claim, it's up to you to support that claim. Are there any claims of knowledge in the Bible supported by modern criteria?

The null hypothesis is: the Bible represents only primitive folklore.
Unless anyone can provide evidence to the contrary, folklore it is. as is the Quran ... and all religious claims.

You are wrong. The Bible is a historical document. One that has never been proven wrong about what it says.

Of course all the Bible versions are historical documents, as is written folklore.

The Bible is a historical book, meaning that it is of real events, in real places, involving real people. Not folklore.

 

[PK1]

My statement about the Bible folklore is fact. How is the Bible relevant in modern times other than group rituals?
.....?

You admit ignorance, but insist that your objective claims be taken as "fact"? Perhaps you don't understand the terms in use.

It appears you don't understand scientific agnosticism. If you make a claim, it's up to you to support that claim. Are there any claims of knowledge in the Bible supported by modern criteria?

The null hypothesis is: the Bible represents only primitive folklore.
Unless anyone can provide evidence to the contrary, folklore it is. as is the Quran ... and all religious claims.

You are wrong. The Bible is a historical document. One that has never been proven wrong about what it says.

Of course all the Bible versions are historical documents, as is written folklore.

The Bible is a historical book, meaning that it is of real events, in real places, involving real people. Not folklore.

It definitely is historical, and so is folklore. How many facts are mixed in with the fiction is a matter of faith in dogma.
We don't even know who most of the authors were, let alone their biases.
Most scholars agree that much of the text was pseudonymous.

 

[BreezeWood]

My statement about the Bible folklore is fact. How is the Bible relevant in modern times other than group rituals?
.....?

You admit ignorance, but insist that your objective claims be taken as "fact"? Perhaps you don't understand the terms in use.

It appears you don't understand scientific agnosticism. If you make a claim, it's up to you to support that claim. Are there any claims of knowledge in the Bible supported by modern criteria?

The null hypothesis is: the Bible represents only primitive folklore.
Unless anyone can provide evidence to the contrary, folklore it is. as is the Quran ... and all religious claims.

You are wrong. The Bible is a historical document. One that has never been proven wrong about what it says.

Of course all the Bible versions are historical documents, as is written folklore.

There is only ONE Bible. Don't know why you are going on about different versions.

.

There is only ONE Bible. Don't know why you are going on about different versions.

what you read as a bible is an extraction derived in the late 4th century that is a political document disguised as a religion, historical notations included. the "versions" are the attempts to right the deception of the 4th century and to find the true religion that can only be accomplished by abandoning their book.

by not doing so, you are their product and reflect the history from that time to the present of oppression and persecution the same as the others posting on its behalf as similarly of the same persuasion.