Children are born believers in God, academic claims

[koshergrl]

Technical definitions mean nothing to demagogues. They just change the meaning.

 

[koshergrl]

How would you know? You just admitted you only read portions of the thread, and missed supporting evidence altogether.

Yes, I missed it. And I have since read it, posted a response and dismissed it. As any reasoning person would.

Lol...yeah, Hamer is *dismissed* by reasoning people. That's why he's one of the top genetic researchers in the world.

 

[Underhill]

Atheists are in stellar company. I know you will recognize your own mindset in the following. Zealot atheists are fascists, pure and simple. Talk to us about hate. Atheists are anti-education, anti-Christian fascists who has committed some of the most heinous crimes the world has ever seen.:

"Most Communist governments have been officially anti-clerical, abolishing religious holidays, teaching atheism in schools, closing monasteries, church social and educational institutions and many churches.[52] In the Soviet Union, anti-clericalism was expressed through the state; in the first five years alone after the Bolshevik revolution, 28 bishops and 1,200 priests were executed."



Anti-clericalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hitler said (taken from the book Hitler's Table Talk, 1941-1944, His Private Conversatios):

"“It’s Christianity that’s the liar. It’s in perpetual conflict with itself.”

“As far as we are concerned, we’ve succeeded in chasing the Jews from our midst and excluding Christianity from our political life.”

"...Christianity is a prototype of Bolshevism: the mobilisation by the Jew of the masses of slaves with the object of undermining society. Thus one understands that the healthy elements of the Roman world were proof against this doctrine.”

“When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let’s be the only people who are immunised against the disease.”

“Pure Christianity—the Christianity of the catacombs—is concerned with translating the Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind.”

“Christianity is the worst of the regressions that mankind can ever have undergone, and it’s the Jew who, thanks to this diabolic invention, has thrown him back fifteen centuries.”

“The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity’s illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity. Bolshevism practises a lie of the same nature, when it claims to bring liberty to men, whereas in reality it seeks only to enslave them. In the ancient world, the relations between men and gods were founded on an instinctive respect. It was a world enlightened by the idea of tolerance. Christianity was the first creed in the world to exterminate its adversaries in the name of love. Its key-note is intolerance.”

“But Christianity is an invention of sick brains : one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery. A negro with his tabus is crushingly superior to the human being who seriously believes in Transubstantiation.”

“Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things.”

“We’ll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State. We shall continue to preach the doctrine of National Socialism, and the young will no longer be taught anything but the truth.”


“Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure.”

“But, even so, it’s impossible eternally to hold humanity in bondage with lies. After all, it was only between the sixth and eighth centuries that Christianity was imposed on our peoples by princes who had an alliance of interests with the shavelings. Our peoples had previously succeeded in living all right without this religion. I have six divisions of SS composed of men absolutely indifferent in matters of religion. It doesn’t prevent them from going to their deaths with serenity in their souls.”

Terrible thing, what the Nazi's did. Sounds vaguely similar to something else I read.

I believe it's in Numbers.

31:7 And they warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males.
31:8 And they slew the kings of Midian, beside the rest of them that were slain; namely, Evi, and Rekem, and Zur, and Hur, and Reba, five kings of Midian: Balaam also the son of Beor they slew with the sword.
31:9 And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods.
31:10 And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire.
31:11 And they took all the spoil, and all the prey, both of men and of beasts.
31:12 And they brought the captives, and the prey, and the spoil, unto Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and unto the congregation of the children of Israel, unto the camp at the plains of Moab, which are by Jordan near Jericho.
31:13 And Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the princes of the congregation, went forth to meet them without the camp.
31:14 And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle. (31:14) "Moses was wroth with the officers"

(31:15) "And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?"

(31:17) "Kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him."

(31:18) "But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."

31:15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?
31:16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD.
31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
31:18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

Then in Deuteronomy...

7:1 When the LORD thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou;
7:2 And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them:
7:3 Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son.
7:4 For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly.
7:5 But thus shall ye deal with them; ye shall destroy their altars, and break down their images, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven images with fire.
7:6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

Fucking atheist.

 

[koshergrl]

The difference is you concur with the Nazis.

 

[koshergrl]

Anti-education...all fascist atheists are. Educated people are dangerous to their proposed, enforced lifestyles.

Here we have underhill calling Hamer a fanatic..meanwhile, Hollie has decried Oxford researchers as discredited fundies.

See a pattern here?

Nazis and Commies alike not only persecuted Christians...they also cut a wide swath through the universities; imprisoning and killing all academics who refused to toe the party line and promote the weird science they wanted to replace reality and scholarly endeavor with.

 

[Hollie]

Atheists are in stellar company. I know you will recognize your own mindset in the following. Zealot atheists are fascists, pure and simple. Talk to us about hate. Atheists are anti-education, anti-Christian fascists who has committed some of the most heinous crimes the world has ever seen.:

"Most Communist governments have been officially anti-clerical, abolishing religious holidays, teaching atheism in schools, closing monasteries, church social and educational institutions and many churches.[52] In the Soviet Union, anti-clericalism was expressed through the state; in the first five years alone after the Bolshevik revolution, 28 bishops and 1,200 priests were executed."



Anti-clericalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hitler said (taken from the book Hitler's Table Talk, 1941-1944, His Private Conversatios):

"“It’s Christianity that’s the liar. It’s in perpetual conflict with itself.”

“As far as we are concerned, we’ve succeeded in chasing the Jews from our midst and excluding Christianity from our political life.”

"...Christianity is a prototype of Bolshevism: the mobilisation by the Jew of the masses of slaves with the object of undermining society. Thus one understands that the healthy elements of the Roman world were proof against this doctrine.”

“When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let’s be the only people who are immunised against the disease.”

“Pure Christianity—the Christianity of the catacombs—is concerned with translating the Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind.”

“Christianity is the worst of the regressions that mankind can ever have undergone, and it’s the Jew who, thanks to this diabolic invention, has thrown him back fifteen centuries.”

“The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity’s illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity. Bolshevism practises a lie of the same nature, when it claims to bring liberty to men, whereas in reality it seeks only to enslave them. In the ancient world, the relations between men and gods were founded on an instinctive respect. It was a world enlightened by the idea of tolerance. Christianity was the first creed in the world to exterminate its adversaries in the name of love. Its key-note is intolerance.”

“But Christianity is an invention of sick brains : one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery. A negro with his tabus is crushingly superior to the human being who seriously believes in Transubstantiation.”

“Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things.”

“We’ll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State. We shall continue to preach the doctrine of National Socialism, and the young will no longer be taught anything but the truth.”


“Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure.”

“But, even so, it’s impossible eternally to hold humanity in bondage with lies. After all, it was only between the sixth and eighth centuries that Christianity was imposed on our peoples by princes who had an alliance of interests with the shavelings. Our peoples had previously succeeded in living all right without this religion. I have six divisions of SS composed of men absolutely indifferent in matters of religion. It doesn’t prevent them from going to their deaths with serenity in their souls.”

Terrible thing, what the Nazi's did. Sounds vaguely similar to something else I read.

I believe it's in Numbers.

31:7 And they warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males.
31:8 And they slew the kings of Midian, beside the rest of them that were slain; namely, Evi, and Rekem, and Zur, and Hur, and Reba, five kings of Midian: Balaam also the son of Beor they slew with the sword.
31:9 And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods.
31:10 And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire.
31:11 And they took all the spoil, and all the prey, both of men and of beasts.
31:12 And they brought the captives, and the prey, and the spoil, unto Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and unto the congregation of the children of Israel, unto the camp at the plains of Moab, which are by Jordan near Jericho.
31:13 And Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the princes of the congregation, went forth to meet them without the camp.
31:14 And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle. (31:14) "Moses was wroth with the officers"

(31:15) "And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?"

(31:17) "Kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him."

(31:18) "But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."

31:15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?
31:16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD.
31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
31:18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

Then in Deuteronomy...

7:1 When the LORD thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou;
7:2 And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them:
7:3 Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son.
7:4 For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly.
7:5 But thus shall ye deal with them; ye shall destroy their altars, and break down their images, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven images with fire.
7:6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon tface of the earth.

Fucking atheist.

Nazism was deeply rooted in christianity. The gods of Christianity are deeply rooted in hate, destruction and mass murder.

There is a connection there that is difficult to miss.

 

[koshergrl]

The gods of Christianity?

Who are these *gods*?

Lol..

Nazism was not rooted in Christianity. Hitler was quite straightforward about it. He saw Christianity as a threat to nazism, as it was, and remains. He hoped to bring Germany around (by force, if necessary) to a sort of primitive paganism.

 

[koshergrl]

Not that it matters. You've written, almost word for word, the majority of the statements that here are attributed to Hitler.

Fascist zealots are fascist zealots. Strip them down to the core, they're all the same, with the same motives.

 

[koshergrl]

Ethics are what do what you claim

Thanks for sharing the above incomprehensible claptrap. When you have something coherent to say, let me know.

1) Just because I write at a level exceeding your reading level (I've always excelled at English writing and comprehension; math not so much) not mean it is not comprehensible to people with superior reading comprehension skills to your own.

2) Why would you assume I am an atheist? For one thing, I never stated as much. For another, I made a reference to 'my gods' earlier in this very thread. Perhaps you should makes less assumptions. You would appear less like an ignorant/arrogant bigot.

No, you don't write at a level exceeding my reading level. I also excel at English and comprehension. Eons ago I got the highest possible comprehension score on my SAT...and I tutored college English comp (at the request of the English dept. head).

Your writing reads like the ramblings of a schizophrenic. Atheist, multiple gods, it doesn't matter. You're a loon.

 

[Underhill]

How would you know? You just admitted you only read portions of the thread, and missed supporting evidence altogether.

Yes, I missed it. And I have since read it, posted a response and dismissed it. As any reasoning person would.

Lol...yeah, Hamer is *dismissed* by reasoning people. That's why he's one of the top genetic researchers in the world.

Oh, I don't dismiss him or his work. I think he is a guy looking for a theory, but that is a separate issue. I dismissed your absurd interpretation of what he found.

 

[Underhill]

The difference is you concur with the Nazis.

You can bend over and fuck yourself.

That is a disgusting and demeaning lie.

And you should seriously be ashamed of yourself. Until you apologize, you will find yourself talking to someone else.

 

[varelse]

The gods of Christianity?

Who are these *gods*?

YHWH and El, mostly

Nazism was not rooted in Christianity. Hitler was quite straightforward about it. He saw Christianity as a threat to nazism, as it was, and remains. He hoped to bring Germany around (by force, if necessary) to a sort of primitive paganism.

I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator. - Adolf Hitler

Hitler's views on religion, let alone his religious faith, seems to have been his own psychotic interpretation of whatever suited his purpose at any given time. Personally, I suspect he might have been a certifiable Narcissist (his family was full of the mentally ill; his negative-eugenics programs swept up a few of his cousins as mentally unfit, if I recall correctly)
​

 

[varelse]

come to think of it, KG's self-title sounds like something Hitler, Manson, or some other Narcissist would say about themselves...

 

[varelse]

All atheists are fools, but remember it is not them that you're hearing, but Satan. As maddening and frightening as they are, their souls also need Christ, and they also need to hear the word. They, more than anyone.

Yes.

Religious fundamentalism is a disease that breeds hate.

Edited for increased truth.

Atheists are in stellar company. I know you will recognize your own mindset in the following. Zealot atheists are fascists, pure and simple. Talk to us about hate. Atheists are anti-education, anti-Christian fascists who has committed some of the most heinous crimes the world has ever seen.:
...
Hitler said...

Oh, btw, Godwin

You are applying the suffix to the root before you apply the prefix. If you apply the prefix first you get a atheos - ism. The belief there is no god. While that may not be the popular defintion currently, I think it is far more accurate.

-ism is a suffix, a- is a prefix

Pre- comes before, as in preschool, or premeditation

the root is theo

 

[Mr. H.]

Another nice song...

Some are born to run
Some are born to fly
It's the essence of the love inbuilt in everyman

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIXdwxF2-L4]Jon Anderson - Some Are Born - live 1980 - YouTube[/ame]

 

[koshergrl]

The difference is you concur with the Nazis.

You can bend over and fuck yourself.

That is a disgusting and demeaning lie.

And you should seriously be ashamed of yourself. Until you apologize, you will find yourself talking to someone else.

Yeah, tell me which of his statements you disagree with.

Oh wait, you can't. You're disgusted. How convenient.

 

[koshergrl]

Yeah, the stupid godwin's law meme is trotted out every time unfortunate parallels are made between today's fascists, and the fascists of yesterday...it's an effective way of ending the conversation without actually having to refute anything.

 

[Underhill]

The difference is you concur with the Nazis.

You can bend over and fuck yourself.

That is a disgusting and demeaning lie.

And you should seriously be ashamed of yourself. Until you apologize, you will find yourself talking to someone else.

Yeah, tell me which of his statements you disagree with.

Listen up fucknuts. I'm only going to say this once.

You believe in God. The inquisitors believed in God. They even called themselves christians. That doesn't mean you agree with everything they said and did.

You believe in God, the 9-11 terrorist believed in god. That doesn't mean you would fly a plane into a building.

You believe in God. the old testament god ordered the jews to slaughter men women and children. That doesn't mean you are going to slaughter men women and children.

And because I happen to share a few harmless views with an asshole and a monster, means absofuckinglutely nothing whatsoever.

It's the kind of thing only a true asshole would do. It's certainly not the kind of thing I would do. Hell, I've defended christians in other threads against the same kind of bullshit. Told others it has more to do with the individual than the beliefs.

Well you specifically are part of the problem. You are a deceitful shit.

Oh wait, you can't. You're disgusted. How convenient.

You lie through your teeth and claim atheist are morally inferior. This alone shows the lie that is you, and your beliefs. You should be proud.

 

[freedombecki]

Atheists are in stellar company. I know you will recognize your own mindset in the following. Zealot atheists are fascists, pure and simple. Talk to us about hate. Atheists are anti-education, anti-Christian fascists who has committed some of the most heinous crimes the world has ever seen.:

"Most Communist governments have been officially anti-clerical, abolishing religious holidays, teaching atheism in schools, closing monasteries, church social and educational institutions and many churches.[52] In the Soviet Union, anti-clericalism was expressed through the state; in the first five years alone after the Bolshevik revolution, 28 bishops and 1,200 priests were executed."

Anti-clericalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hitler said (taken from the book Hitler's Table Talk, 1941-1944, His Private Conversatios):

"“It’s Christianity that’s the liar. It’s in perpetual conflict with itself.”

“As far as we are concerned, we’ve succeeded in chasing the Jews from our midst and excluding Christianity from our political life.”

"...Christianity is a prototype of Bolshevism: the mobilisation by the Jew of the masses of slaves with the object of undermining society. Thus one understands that the healthy elements of the Roman world were proof against this doctrine.”

“When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let’s be the only people who are immunised against the disease.”

“Pure Christianity—the Christianity of the catacombs—is concerned with translating the Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind.”

“Christianity is the worst of the regressions that mankind can ever have undergone, and it’s the Jew who, thanks to this diabolic invention, has thrown him back fifteen centuries.”

“The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity’s illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity. Bolshevism practises a lie of the same nature, when it claims to bring liberty to men, whereas in reality it seeks only to enslave them. In the ancient world, the relations between men and gods were founded on an instinctive respect. It was a world enlightened by the idea of tolerance. Christianity was the first creed in the world to exterminate its adversaries in the name of love. Its key-note is intolerance.”

“But Christianity is an invention of sick brains : one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery. A negro with his tabus is crushingly superior to the human being who seriously believes in Transubstantiation.”

“Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things.”

“We’ll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State. We shall continue to preach the doctrine of National Socialism, and the young will no longer be taught anything but the truth.”


“Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure.”

“But, even so, it’s impossible eternally to hold humanity in bondage with lies. After all, it was only between the sixth and eighth centuries that Christianity was imposed on our peoples by princes who had an alliance of interests with the shavelings. Our peoples had previously succeeded in living all right without this religion. I have six divisions of SS composed of men absolutely indifferent in matters of religion. It doesn’t prevent them from going to their deaths with serenity in their souls.”

Thanks for the quotes. It proves to me his regime was not a Christian one, but just the opposite.

 

[Underhill]

Atheists are in stellar company. I know you will recognize your own mindset in the following. Zealot atheists are fascists, pure and simple. Talk to us about hate. Atheists are anti-education, anti-Christian fascists who has committed some of the most heinous crimes the world has ever seen.:

"Most Communist governments have been officially anti-clerical, abolishing religious holidays, teaching atheism in schools, closing monasteries, church social and educational institutions and many churches.[52] In the Soviet Union, anti-clericalism was expressed through the state; in the first five years alone after the Bolshevik revolution, 28 bishops and 1,200 priests were executed."

Anti-clericalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hitler said (taken from the book Hitler's Table Talk, 1941-1944, His Private Conversatios):

"“It’s Christianity that’s the liar. It’s in perpetual conflict with itself.”

“As far as we are concerned, we’ve succeeded in chasing the Jews from our midst and excluding Christianity from our political life.”

"...Christianity is a prototype of Bolshevism: the mobilisation by the Jew of the masses of slaves with the object of undermining society. Thus one understands that the healthy elements of the Roman world were proof against this doctrine.”

“When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let’s be the only people who are immunised against the disease.”

“Pure Christianity—the Christianity of the catacombs—is concerned with translating the Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind.”

“Christianity is the worst of the regressions that mankind can ever have undergone, and it’s the Jew who, thanks to this diabolic invention, has thrown him back fifteen centuries.”

“The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity’s illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity. Bolshevism practises a lie of the same nature, when it claims to bring liberty to men, whereas in reality it seeks only to enslave them. In the ancient world, the relations between men and gods were founded on an instinctive respect. It was a world enlightened by the idea of tolerance. Christianity was the first creed in the world to exterminate its adversaries in the name of love. Its key-note is intolerance.”

“But Christianity is an invention of sick brains : one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery. A negro with his tabus is crushingly superior to the human being who seriously believes in Transubstantiation.”

“Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things.”

“We’ll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State. We shall continue to preach the doctrine of National Socialism, and the young will no longer be taught anything but the truth.”


“Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure.”

“But, even so, it’s impossible eternally to hold humanity in bondage with lies. After all, it was only between the sixth and eighth centuries that Christianity was imposed on our peoples by princes who had an alliance of interests with the shavelings. Our peoples had previously succeeded in living all right without this religion. I have six divisions of SS composed of men absolutely indifferent in matters of religion. It doesn’t prevent them from going to their deaths with serenity in their souls.”

Thanks for the quotes. It proves to me his regime was not a Christian one, but just the opposite.

It proves to me that he used Christianity to farther his cause but didn't believe a word of it. A common enough practice since the origins of the faith...