Cliches that Christians should stop using.

[BULLDOG]

I get that the people who say these things are trying to be kind, loving, and even humble. However, if you want to be kind, loving, and humble, then instead of spouting useless platitudes, maybe you should think about the words coming out of your mouth, and how those words might be perceived by others.

A few examples:

• "Have you heard of Jesus?"
  Really??? Seriously??? Does anyone honestly think that in the 21st century there is anyone, who has not spent their entire life living in a bomb shelter with absolutely no contact with the outside world, who has not heard of Jesus??? Really?
  
  
• "Everything happens for a reason."
  No it doesn't. I understand that this is a statement meant to give comfort to those who are suffering, and see no purpose to the madness, and chaos around them. But, think about the implications of that comment. Implied in this is a very specific understanding of how God interacts with the world. Specifically, it says God directs all things. So, mass murders? God had a reason for that senseless act of violence. Stubbing your toe on the door frame? I guess God wanted to smite your toe.
  
  This statement denies the very existence of free will, and turns everyone into nothing more than chess pieces that God shuffles around on a playing field for no other purpose than his own amusement. Really? That's the God you want me to love? One who meddles in every aspect of my life, like a kid tipping an ant farm? This cliche is kind of tied to the next one.
  
  
• "God never gives us more than we can handle"
  Ever said that to someone who was considering suicide? Or, better yet, have you ever said that to someone who was left behind after a loved one committed suicide? No? Why not? Because it's just wrong, that's why! It’s wrong because factual circumstances of living prove that sometimes this life does bring with it more than we can handle, as evidenced by the fact that this person's loved one just committed suicide.
  
  
• "There, but for the grace of God, go I"
  Now, think about that for a second, and the implication of what that says about the person to whom you are referring.
  
  Are they where they are because they lack the grace of God that others receive?
  
  Does God pick and choose whom grace lands upon, intentionally withholding it from some people?
  
  I know that people who say this don’t mean it that way, but that is what they are saying – even if indirectly. Feel free to be thankful for where you are but let’s stop heaping coals on other people’s shoulders – even if unintentionally.
  
  
• "Love the sinner, Hate the sin"
  This one has been really popular these days, particularly in light of all of the LGBT issues that have been cropping up. The problem I have with this one is the comma. It should be a period.
  
  After further thought, I have a problem with the comma, everything that comes after it, and “the sinner.”
  
  Who am I (and who are you) to be deciding for someone else what is getting between them and God? I’m all for doing it in regard to our own lives but in someone else’s life? Hands off. Who do we think we are? God? Which brings us to the next one, but we'll get to that in a sec.
  
  The real problem I have with this one is that there’s not a period after love.
  
  Love. Period.
  
  
• "It's our responsibility to judge"
  Says who?!?! This has been a popular defence among moralist bloggers of late. Apparently, it's cool to judge.
  
  Well, I wanna be cool too, so I'm gonna judge them for trying to justify judging others. Don’t worry though – I’m loving the sinner, hating the sin when I do it. So, it’s OK. Right?
  
  Oh, give me just a minute though. It turns out I’ve got a log in my eye. I’ll need to take care of that first. (If you're not certain of that reference, check your bible. I'm sure you can find one at any local church.)
  
  
• "There are no atheists in foxholes"
  Really? There are atheists in church and you honestly think there are no atheists in foxholes?!?!
  
  Look, I get that the point is supposed to be that when faced with death we all turn to God. However, not only is that simply not true for everyone when faced with death, it is really bad logic.
  
  Allow me to illustrate:.
  
  When faced with death in a foxhole – grenades flying overhead and limbs being blown off the person next to me – I am likely to shit myself. It does not follow that I should always shit myself.
  
  In foxholes there are a whole bunch of people trying to stay alive and they pretty much don’t care what the other person believes about God. They just want to stay alive… and probably not shit themselves.

Now, I'm sure, given time, there are a plethora of other stupid platitudes that moralistic religious types use to try to console, cajole, and justify why everyone should bow down the the same "Magic-Man-in-the-Sky" that they do. But, I think this is enough to get people thinking, and maybe start a conversation.

Some of what you say here may have some merit, but what is the larger point you are trying to make?

Are you saying that Christians should be silent about their faith because it may hurt feelings and feelings is more important than the truth?
Are you saying leave other people alone because it is none of our business or it really does not matter what we think or do?
Or are you just saying God is a myth so quit harping about it?
Have you noticed how the world is turning how society has become so narcissistic, depraved and ignorant? Half the nation is on anti-depressants because they are so lost and lonely.

I would never try to speak for the OP, but what I got was say what you want about your own faith, but making judgments about other's is none of your business.

I am not sure what "making judgments" means, because it can mean a wide variation or degree of opinions.

Christians should never judge the worth of a soul or assign punishments, that much is clear. But to try to console another by bringing up God is not a judgment in many or most cases, IMO.

If someone wants to nitpick the misgivings of Christians they will find a million things to point to. But if they think Christianity is a menace to society because of various missteps or failings, they are blind. IMO

Saying some of those things would be perfect when consoling some people, because it aligns with their beliefs. If you are truly trying to console someone, you don't insult their basic beliefs, even if they aren't the same as yours, and it's not a time to proselytize.

 

[Picaro]

And instead of trying to score intellectual points with things like "No atheists in foxholes", or pascale's Retarded Wager, try having honest, discourse with people.

You should take your own advice. Asking a bunch of loaded questions, and then answering them yourself isn't honest discourse; most Christians I know never say that stuff, for one, and while it's true many Christians are not scholars that is even more the case with those playing 'atheist intellectuals' trolling the religion forums constantly with mindless idiotic BS they read from some crank site like infidels.org looking for confirmation bias.

Really?!?! You have never known a Christian to say "Well, God never gives us more than we can handle," Really?!?! "Or, "There, but for the grace of God, go I"? Not once? Really?!?!? You'll forgive me if I'm gonna call bullshit on that...

Since all of your posts are drivel and bullshit, I can't make myself care what you think. You're a troll and are to be mocked, not taken seriously.

 

[Czernobog]

I get that the people who say these things are trying to be kind, loving, and even humble. However, if you want to be kind, loving, and humble, then instead of spouting useless platitudes, maybe you should think about the words coming out of your mouth, and how those words might be perceived by others.

A few examples:

• "Have you heard of Jesus?"
  Really??? Seriously??? Does anyone honestly think that in the 21st century there is anyone, who has not spent their entire life living in a bomb shelter with absolutely no contact with the outside world, who has not heard of Jesus??? Really?
  
  
• "Everything happens for a reason."
  No it doesn't. I understand that this is a statement meant to give comfort to those who are suffering, and see no purpose to the madness, and chaos around them. But, think about the implications of that comment. Implied in this is a very specific understanding of how God interacts with the world. Specifically, it says God directs all things. So, mass murders? God had a reason for that senseless act of violence. Stubbing your toe on the door frame? I guess God wanted to smite your toe.
  
  This statement denies the very existence of free will, and turns everyone into nothing more than chess pieces that God shuffles around on a playing field for no other purpose than his own amusement. Really? That's the God you want me to love? One who meddles in every aspect of my life, like a kid tipping an ant farm? This cliche is kind of tied to the next one.
  
  
• "God never gives us more than we can handle"
  Ever said that to someone who was considering suicide? Or, better yet, have you ever said that to someone who was left behind after a loved one committed suicide? No? Why not? Because it's just wrong, that's why! It’s wrong because factual circumstances of living prove that sometimes this life does bring with it more than we can handle, as evidenced by the fact that this person's loved one just committed suicide.
  
  
• "There, but for the grace of God, go I"
  Now, think about that for a second, and the implication of what that says about the person to whom you are referring.
  
  Are they where they are because they lack the grace of God that others receive?
  
  Does God pick and choose whom grace lands upon, intentionally withholding it from some people?
  
  I know that people who say this don’t mean it that way, but that is what they are saying – even if indirectly. Feel free to be thankful for where you are but let’s stop heaping coals on other people’s shoulders – even if unintentionally.
  
  
• "Love the sinner, Hate the sin"
  This one has been really popular these days, particularly in light of all of the LGBT issues that have been cropping up. The problem I have with this one is the comma. It should be a period.
  
  After further thought, I have a problem with the comma, everything that comes after it, and “the sinner.”
  
  Who am I (and who are you) to be deciding for someone else what is getting between them and God? I’m all for doing it in regard to our own lives but in someone else’s life? Hands off. Who do we think we are? God? Which brings us to the next one, but we'll get to that in a sec.
  
  The real problem I have with this one is that there’s not a period after love.
  
  Love. Period.
  
  
• "It's our responsibility to judge"
  Says who?!?! This has been a popular defence among moralist bloggers of late. Apparently, it's cool to judge.
  
  Well, I wanna be cool too, so I'm gonna judge them for trying to justify judging others. Don’t worry though – I’m loving the sinner, hating the sin when I do it. So, it’s OK. Right?
  
  Oh, give me just a minute though. It turns out I’ve got a log in my eye. I’ll need to take care of that first. (If you're not certain of that reference, check your bible. I'm sure you can find one at any local church.)
  
  
• "There are no atheists in foxholes"
  Really? There are atheists in church and you honestly think there are no atheists in foxholes?!?!
  
  Look, I get that the point is supposed to be that when faced with death we all turn to God. However, not only is that simply not true for everyone when faced with death, it is really bad logic.
  
  Allow me to illustrate:.
  
  When faced with death in a foxhole – grenades flying overhead and limbs being blown off the person next to me – I am likely to shit myself. It does not follow that I should always shit myself.
  
  In foxholes there are a whole bunch of people trying to stay alive and they pretty much don’t care what the other person believes about God. They just want to stay alive… and probably not shit themselves.

Now, I'm sure, given time, there are a plethora of other stupid platitudes that moralistic religious types use to try to console, cajole, and justify why everyone should bow down the the same "Magic-Man-in-the-Sky" that they do. But, I think this is enough to get people thinking, and maybe start a conversation.

Some of what you say here may have some merit, but what is the larger point you are trying to make?

Are you saying that Christians should be silent about their faith because it may hurt feelings and feelings is more important than the truth?
Are you saying leave other people alone because it is none of our business or it really does not matter what we think or do?
Or are you just saying God is a myth so quit harping about it?
Have you noticed how the world is turning how society has become so narcissistic, depraved and ignorant? Half the nation is on anti-depressants because they are so lost and lonely.

I would never try to speak for the OP, but what I got was say what you want about your own faith, but making judgments about other's is none of your business.

I am not sure what "making judgments" means, because it can mean a wide variation or degree of opinions.

Christians should never judge the worth of a soul or assign punishments, that much is clear. But to try to console another by bringing up God is not a judgment in many or most cases, IMO.

If someone wants to nitpick the misgivings of Christians they will find a million things to point to. But if they think Christianity is a menace to society because of various missteps or failings, they are blind. IMO

Saying some of those things would be perfect when consoling some people, because it aligns with their beliefs. If you are truly trying to console someone, you don't insult their basic beliefs, even if they aren't the same as yours, and it's not a time to proselytize.

I would agree to a point. From experience though, when someone is grieving, that whole "God never gives us..." thing rarely consoles, and typically ends up in an emotional explosion. I cannot recall a single time when that line actually worked. It really is better to just say nothing than to spout that silliness to someone who is grieving. I'm just sayin...

 

[Czernobog]

And instead of trying to score intellectual points with things like "No atheists in foxholes", or pascale's Retarded Wager, try having honest, discourse with people.

You should take your own advice. Asking a bunch of loaded questions, and then answering them yourself isn't honest discourse; most Christians I know never say that stuff, for one, and while it's true many Christians are not scholars that is even more the case with those playing 'atheist intellectuals' trolling the religion forums constantly with mindless idiotic BS they read from some crank site like infidels.org looking for confirmation bias.

Really?!?! You have never known a Christian to say "Well, God never gives us more than we can handle," Really?!?! "Or, "There, but for the grace of God, go I"? Not once? Really?!?!? You'll forgive me if I'm gonna call bullshit on that...

Since all of your posts are drivel and bullshit, I can't make myself care what you think. You're a troll and are to be mocked, not taken seriously.

...and yet, you feel the need to respond, implying you must care, at least a little, about what was written...

 

[turzovka]

I get that the people who say these things are trying to be kind, loving, and even humble. However, if you want to be kind, loving, and humble, then instead of spouting useless platitudes, maybe you should think about the words coming out of your mouth, and how those words might be perceived by others.

A few examples:

• "Have you heard of Jesus?"
  Really??? Seriously??? Does anyone honestly think that in the 21st century there is anyone, who has not spent their entire life living in a bomb shelter with absolutely no contact with the outside world, who has not heard of Jesus??? Really?
  
  
• "Everything happens for a reason."
  No it doesn't. I understand that this is a statement meant to give comfort to those who are suffering, and see no purpose to the madness, and chaos around them. But, think about the implications of that comment. Implied in this is a very specific understanding of how God interacts with the world. Specifically, it says God directs all things. So, mass murders? God had a reason for that senseless act of violence. Stubbing your toe on the door frame? I guess God wanted to smite your toe.
  
  This statement denies the very existence of free will, and turns everyone into nothing more than chess pieces that God shuffles around on a playing field for no other purpose than his own amusement. Really? That's the God you want me to love? One who meddles in every aspect of my life, like a kid tipping an ant farm? This cliche is kind of tied to the next one.
  
  
• "God never gives us more than we can handle"
  Ever said that to someone who was considering suicide? Or, better yet, have you ever said that to someone who was left behind after a loved one committed suicide? No? Why not? Because it's just wrong, that's why! It’s wrong because factual circumstances of living prove that sometimes this life does bring with it more than we can handle, as evidenced by the fact that this person's loved one just committed suicide.
  
  
• "There, but for the grace of God, go I"
  Now, think about that for a second, and the implication of what that says about the person to whom you are referring.
  
  Are they where they are because they lack the grace of God that others receive?
  
  Does God pick and choose whom grace lands upon, intentionally withholding it from some people?
  
  I know that people who say this don’t mean it that way, but that is what they are saying – even if indirectly. Feel free to be thankful for where you are but let’s stop heaping coals on other people’s shoulders – even if unintentionally.
  
  
• "Love the sinner, Hate the sin"
  This one has been really popular these days, particularly in light of all of the LGBT issues that have been cropping up. The problem I have with this one is the comma. It should be a period.
  
  After further thought, I have a problem with the comma, everything that comes after it, and “the sinner.”
  
  Who am I (and who are you) to be deciding for someone else what is getting between them and God? I’m all for doing it in regard to our own lives but in someone else’s life? Hands off. Who do we think we are? God? Which brings us to the next one, but we'll get to that in a sec.
  
  The real problem I have with this one is that there’s not a period after love.
  
  Love. Period.
  
  
• "It's our responsibility to judge"
  Says who?!?! This has been a popular defence among moralist bloggers of late. Apparently, it's cool to judge.
  
  Well, I wanna be cool too, so I'm gonna judge them for trying to justify judging others. Don’t worry though – I’m loving the sinner, hating the sin when I do it. So, it’s OK. Right?
  
  Oh, give me just a minute though. It turns out I’ve got a log in my eye. I’ll need to take care of that first. (If you're not certain of that reference, check your bible. I'm sure you can find one at any local church.)
  
  
• "There are no atheists in foxholes"
  Really? There are atheists in church and you honestly think there are no atheists in foxholes?!?!
  
  Look, I get that the point is supposed to be that when faced with death we all turn to God. However, not only is that simply not true for everyone when faced with death, it is really bad logic.
  
  Allow me to illustrate:.
  
  When faced with death in a foxhole – grenades flying overhead and limbs being blown off the person next to me – I am likely to shit myself. It does not follow that I should always shit myself.
  
  In foxholes there are a whole bunch of people trying to stay alive and they pretty much don’t care what the other person believes about God. They just want to stay alive… and probably not shit themselves.

Now, I'm sure, given time, there are a plethora of other stupid platitudes that moralistic religious types use to try to console, cajole, and justify why everyone should bow down the the same "Magic-Man-in-the-Sky" that they do. But, I think this is enough to get people thinking, and maybe start a conversation.

Some of what you say here may have some merit, but what is the larger point you are trying to make?

Are you saying that Christians should be silent about their faith because it may hurt feelings and feelings is more important than the truth?
Are you saying leave other people alone because it is none of our business or it really does not matter what we think or do?
Or are you just saying God is a myth so quit harping about it?
Have you noticed how the world is turning how society has become so narcissistic, depraved and ignorant? Half the nation is on anti-depressants because they are so lost and lonely.

No. What I am saying is to take a minute, and think, before opening one's mouth. What I'm saying is that simplistic, sophomoric platitudes rarely make anyone feel better, and, quite often, make people feel worse. So, instead of trying to apply some proverbial band-aid, take the time to talk to the person, hear them, and engage with them.

And instead of trying to score intellectual points with things like "No atheists in foxholes", or pascale's Retarded Wager, try having honest, discourse with people.

no, you are either not saying much of anything --- because your advice is exactly what they are doing or trying to do.

or, you are saying to Christians if you cannot say the exactly proper thing for the moment (and who can ever be sure what that is) then keep you mouth closed and your God to yourself.

Either way, I do not really think your advice is all that fair. Yes, I agree, strong preaching and repeated preaching is an affront and not correct, but what you are implying is like a "don't you dare say a thing about it."

No it's not. Take the "Have you heard of Jesus" bit. Does that really strike you as a reasonable, rational, logical question in the 21st century? I mean, do you honestly believe that there is anyone that you are going to "witness" to that has never, once, in their lives heard pretty much all of the things you are going to say to them? If not, then to what purpose, other than being annoying, and self-righteous, are you wasting time telling someone something they have already heard - repeatedly, likely - and already know?

Instead, how about you tell them about your life. Don't hammer them with "Well God did this for me..." Just talk to them. Let your life, and your attitude be your "Witness". Do you really think God needs another town crier, shouting out the news that he exists? Ya don't think that narrative has already been pretty well spread?

I just think this your "nice way" of being not nice.

Christians are by and large far more kind and thoughtful of others than are those who have no use for God. It seems to me the latter is always totally lost at funerals, keep telling their pals how much they hate these events, and choose not to address the grieving in any meaningful way.

If that is what you want, then I do not think you are being much help to anyone.

And if someone asks you "have you heard of Jesus?" first of all it is not the literal interpretation, it is implying have you really thought about God and how it may impact your own life and future? It is merely an intro to a subject most choose to avoid because they are afraid to even think about it. It takes courage for one to bring it up.

Now having said that, I agree there is a time and place to talk to someone about their faith and there are other times and places not to bring it up. I can understand where or when it may not be welcome. But other times, one should be given credit for having the courage to do so.

 

[the_human_being]

I get that the people who say these things are trying to be kind, loving, and even humble. However, if you want to be kind, loving, and humble, then instead of spouting useless platitudes, maybe you should think about the words coming out of your mouth, and how those words might be perceived by others.

A few examples:

• "Have you heard of Jesus?"
  Really??? Seriously??? Does anyone honestly think that in the 21st century there is anyone, who has not spent their entire life living in a bomb shelter with absolutely no contact with the outside world, who has not heard of Jesus??? Really?
  
  
• "Everything happens for a reason."
  No it doesn't. I understand that this is a statement meant to give comfort to those who are suffering, and see no purpose to the madness, and chaos around them. But, think about the implications of that comment. Implied in this is a very specific understanding of how God interacts with the world. Specifically, it says God directs all things. So, mass murders? God had a reason for that senseless act of violence. Stubbing your toe on the door frame? I guess God wanted to smite your toe.
  
  This statement denies the very existence of free will, and turns everyone into nothing more than chess pieces that God shuffles around on a playing field for no other purpose than his own amusement. Really? That's the God you want me to love? One who meddles in every aspect of my life, like a kid tipping an ant farm? This cliche is kind of tied to the next one.
  
  
• "God never gives us more than we can handle"
  Ever said that to someone who was considering suicide? Or, better yet, have you ever said that to someone who was left behind after a loved one committed suicide? No? Why not? Because it's just wrong, that's why! It’s wrong because factual circumstances of living prove that sometimes this life does bring with it more than we can handle, as evidenced by the fact that this person's loved one just committed suicide.
  
  
• "There, but for the grace of God, go I"
  Now, think about that for a second, and the implication of what that says about the person to whom you are referring.
  
  Are they where they are because they lack the grace of God that others receive?
  
  Does God pick and choose whom grace lands upon, intentionally withholding it from some people?
  
  I know that people who say this don’t mean it that way, but that is what they are saying – even if indirectly. Feel free to be thankful for where you are but let’s stop heaping coals on other people’s shoulders – even if unintentionally.
  
  
• "Love the sinner, Hate the sin"
  This one has been really popular these days, particularly in light of all of the LGBT issues that have been cropping up. The problem I have with this one is the comma. It should be a period.
  
  After further thought, I have a problem with the comma, everything that comes after it, and “the sinner.”
  
  Who am I (and who are you) to be deciding for someone else what is getting between them and God? I’m all for doing it in regard to our own lives but in someone else’s life? Hands off. Who do we think we are? God? Which brings us to the next one, but we'll get to that in a sec.
  
  The real problem I have with this one is that there’s not a period after love.
  
  Love. Period.
  
  
• "It's our responsibility to judge"
  Says who?!?! This has been a popular defence among moralist bloggers of late. Apparently, it's cool to judge.
  
  Well, I wanna be cool too, so I'm gonna judge them for trying to justify judging others. Don’t worry though – I’m loving the sinner, hating the sin when I do it. So, it’s OK. Right?
  
  Oh, give me just a minute though. It turns out I’ve got a log in my eye. I’ll need to take care of that first. (If you're not certain of that reference, check your bible. I'm sure you can find one at any local church.)
  
  
• "There are no atheists in foxholes"
  Really? There are atheists in church and you honestly think there are no atheists in foxholes?!?!
  
  Look, I get that the point is supposed to be that when faced with death we all turn to God. However, not only is that simply not true for everyone when faced with death, it is really bad logic.
  
  Allow me to illustrate:.
  
  When faced with death in a foxhole – grenades flying overhead and limbs being blown off the person next to me – I am likely to shit myself. It does not follow that I should always shit myself.
  
  In foxholes there are a whole bunch of people trying to stay alive and they pretty much don’t care what the other person believes about God. They just want to stay alive… and probably not shit themselves.

Now, I'm sure, given time, there are a plethora of other stupid platitudes that moralistic religious types use to try to console, cajole, and justify why everyone should bow down the the same "Magic-Man-in-the-Sky" that they do. But, I think this is enough to get people thinking, and maybe start a conversation.

Some of what you say here may have some merit, but what is the larger point you are trying to make?

Are you saying that Christians should be silent about their faith because it may hurt feelings and feelings is more important than the truth?
Are you saying leave other people alone because it is none of our business or it really does not matter what we think or do?
Or are you just saying God is a myth so quit harping about it?
Have you noticed how the world is turning how society has become so narcissistic, depraved and ignorant? Half the nation is on anti-depressants because they are so lost and lonely.

No. What I am saying is to take a minute, and think, before opening one's mouth. What I'm saying is that simplistic, sophomoric platitudes rarely make anyone feel better, and, quite often, make people feel worse. So, instead of trying to apply some proverbial band-aid, take the time to talk to the person, hear them, and engage with them.

And instead of trying to score intellectual points with things like "No atheists in foxholes", or pascale's Retarded Wager, try having honest, discourse with people.

no, you are either not saying much of anything --- because your advice is exactly what they are doing or trying to do.

or, you are saying to Christians if you cannot say the exactly proper thing for the moment (and who can ever be sure what that is) then keep you mouth closed and your God to yourself.

Either way, I do not really think your advice is all that fair. Yes, I agree, strong preaching and repeated preaching is an affront and not correct, but what you are implying is like a "don't you dare say a thing about it."

No it's not. Take the "Have you heard of Jesus" bit. Does that really strike you as a reasonable, rational, logical question in the 21st century? I mean, do you honestly believe that there is anyone that you are going to "witness" to that has never, once, in their lives heard pretty much all of the things you are going to say to them? If not, then to what purpose, other than being annoying, and self-righteous, are you wasting time telling someone something they have already heard - repeatedly, likely - and already know?

Instead, how about you tell them about your life. Don't hammer them with "Well God did this for me..." Just talk to them. Let your life, and your attitude be your "Witness". Do you really think God needs another town crier, shouting out the news that he exists? Ya don't think that narrative has already been pretty well spread?

You really are vermin aren't you. Your OP attacked Christians. I called you on your attack so in your Post # 9, you apologized for attacking Christians and here you go off again attacking Christians. How old are you? Twelve?

 

[Czernobog]

I get that the people who say these things are trying to be kind, loving, and even humble. However, if you want to be kind, loving, and humble, then instead of spouting useless platitudes, maybe you should think about the words coming out of your mouth, and how those words might be perceived by others.

A few examples:

• "Have you heard of Jesus?"
  Really??? Seriously??? Does anyone honestly think that in the 21st century there is anyone, who has not spent their entire life living in a bomb shelter with absolutely no contact with the outside world, who has not heard of Jesus??? Really?
  
  
• "Everything happens for a reason."
  No it doesn't. I understand that this is a statement meant to give comfort to those who are suffering, and see no purpose to the madness, and chaos around them. But, think about the implications of that comment. Implied in this is a very specific understanding of how God interacts with the world. Specifically, it says God directs all things. So, mass murders? God had a reason for that senseless act of violence. Stubbing your toe on the door frame? I guess God wanted to smite your toe.
  
  This statement denies the very existence of free will, and turns everyone into nothing more than chess pieces that God shuffles around on a playing field for no other purpose than his own amusement. Really? That's the God you want me to love? One who meddles in every aspect of my life, like a kid tipping an ant farm? This cliche is kind of tied to the next one.
  
  
• "God never gives us more than we can handle"
  Ever said that to someone who was considering suicide? Or, better yet, have you ever said that to someone who was left behind after a loved one committed suicide? No? Why not? Because it's just wrong, that's why! It’s wrong because factual circumstances of living prove that sometimes this life does bring with it more than we can handle, as evidenced by the fact that this person's loved one just committed suicide.
  
  
• "There, but for the grace of God, go I"
  Now, think about that for a second, and the implication of what that says about the person to whom you are referring.
  
  Are they where they are because they lack the grace of God that others receive?
  
  Does God pick and choose whom grace lands upon, intentionally withholding it from some people?
  
  I know that people who say this don’t mean it that way, but that is what they are saying – even if indirectly. Feel free to be thankful for where you are but let’s stop heaping coals on other people’s shoulders – even if unintentionally.
  
  
• "Love the sinner, Hate the sin"
  This one has been really popular these days, particularly in light of all of the LGBT issues that have been cropping up. The problem I have with this one is the comma. It should be a period.
  
  After further thought, I have a problem with the comma, everything that comes after it, and “the sinner.”
  
  Who am I (and who are you) to be deciding for someone else what is getting between them and God? I’m all for doing it in regard to our own lives but in someone else’s life? Hands off. Who do we think we are? God? Which brings us to the next one, but we'll get to that in a sec.
  
  The real problem I have with this one is that there’s not a period after love.
  
  Love. Period.
  
  
• "It's our responsibility to judge"
  Says who?!?! This has been a popular defence among moralist bloggers of late. Apparently, it's cool to judge.
  
  Well, I wanna be cool too, so I'm gonna judge them for trying to justify judging others. Don’t worry though – I’m loving the sinner, hating the sin when I do it. So, it’s OK. Right?
  
  Oh, give me just a minute though. It turns out I’ve got a log in my eye. I’ll need to take care of that first. (If you're not certain of that reference, check your bible. I'm sure you can find one at any local church.)
  
  
• "There are no atheists in foxholes"
  Really? There are atheists in church and you honestly think there are no atheists in foxholes?!?!
  
  Look, I get that the point is supposed to be that when faced with death we all turn to God. However, not only is that simply not true for everyone when faced with death, it is really bad logic.
  
  Allow me to illustrate:.
  
  When faced with death in a foxhole – grenades flying overhead and limbs being blown off the person next to me – I am likely to shit myself. It does not follow that I should always shit myself.
  
  In foxholes there are a whole bunch of people trying to stay alive and they pretty much don’t care what the other person believes about God. They just want to stay alive… and probably not shit themselves.

Now, I'm sure, given time, there are a plethora of other stupid platitudes that moralistic religious types use to try to console, cajole, and justify why everyone should bow down the the same "Magic-Man-in-the-Sky" that they do. But, I think this is enough to get people thinking, and maybe start a conversation.

Some of what you say here may have some merit, but what is the larger point you are trying to make?

Are you saying that Christians should be silent about their faith because it may hurt feelings and feelings is more important than the truth?
Are you saying leave other people alone because it is none of our business or it really does not matter what we think or do?
Or are you just saying God is a myth so quit harping about it?
Have you noticed how the world is turning how society has become so narcissistic, depraved and ignorant? Half the nation is on anti-depressants because they are so lost and lonely.

No. What I am saying is to take a minute, and think, before opening one's mouth. What I'm saying is that simplistic, sophomoric platitudes rarely make anyone feel better, and, quite often, make people feel worse. So, instead of trying to apply some proverbial band-aid, take the time to talk to the person, hear them, and engage with them.

And instead of trying to score intellectual points with things like "No atheists in foxholes", or pascale's Retarded Wager, try having honest, discourse with people.

no, you are either not saying much of anything --- because your advice is exactly what they are doing or trying to do.

or, you are saying to Christians if you cannot say the exactly proper thing for the moment (and who can ever be sure what that is) then keep you mouth closed and your God to yourself.

Either way, I do not really think your advice is all that fair. Yes, I agree, strong preaching and repeated preaching is an affront and not correct, but what you are implying is like a "don't you dare say a thing about it."

No it's not. Take the "Have you heard of Jesus" bit. Does that really strike you as a reasonable, rational, logical question in the 21st century? I mean, do you honestly believe that there is anyone that you are going to "witness" to that has never, once, in their lives heard pretty much all of the things you are going to say to them? If not, then to what purpose, other than being annoying, and self-righteous, are you wasting time telling someone something they have already heard - repeatedly, likely - and already know?

Instead, how about you tell them about your life. Don't hammer them with "Well God did this for me..." Just talk to them. Let your life, and your attitude be your "Witness". Do you really think God needs another town crier, shouting out the news that he exists? Ya don't think that narrative has already been pretty well spread?

I just think this your "nice way" of being not nice.

Christians are by and large far more kind and thoughtful of others than are those who have no use for God. It seems to me the latter is always totally lost at funerals, keep telling their pals how much they hate these events, and choose not to address the grieving in any meaningful way.

If that is what you want, then I do not think you are being much help to anyone.

Then you must know some really unintelligent non-christians. When I am consoling a friend at a funeral, i remind them that, not only is their loved one still with them in their heart, and memories, but they are physically still with us, as there universe is the great cosmic recycle - energy, and matter are never lost; only converted. So, their loved on is, literally, with us in the air we breathe, the atoms, and molecules around us, in the very cosmic stuff that surrounds us, and makes up each and every one of us. See? Comfort to be found, without relying on some "Magic-Man-in-the-Sky".

And if someone asks you "have you heard of Jesus?" first of all it is not the literal interpretation, it is implying have you really thought about God and how it may impact your own life and future? It is merely an intro to a subject most choose to avoid because they are afraid to even think about it. It takes courage for one to bring it up.

Now having said that, I agree there is a time and place to talk to someone about their faith and there are other times and places not to bring it up. I can understand where or when it may not be welcome. But other times, one should be given credit for having the courage to do so.

And you think that is any less condescending?!?! I am 50 years old. You don't think that I have had multiple opportunities in my life to consider cosmic events, the possible existence of divinity, and the possible consequences for choosing to reject any given theology?!? Really???? But you're being...how was it you put it? "Kind, and thoughtful" of me...

Do me a favour...be a little less kind...

 

[Czernobog]

I get that the people who say these things are trying to be kind, loving, and even humble. However, if you want to be kind, loving, and humble, then instead of spouting useless platitudes, maybe you should think about the words coming out of your mouth, and how those words might be perceived by others.

A few examples:

• "Have you heard of Jesus?"
  Really??? Seriously??? Does anyone honestly think that in the 21st century there is anyone, who has not spent their entire life living in a bomb shelter with absolutely no contact with the outside world, who has not heard of Jesus??? Really?
  
  
• "Everything happens for a reason."
  No it doesn't. I understand that this is a statement meant to give comfort to those who are suffering, and see no purpose to the madness, and chaos around them. But, think about the implications of that comment. Implied in this is a very specific understanding of how God interacts with the world. Specifically, it says God directs all things. So, mass murders? God had a reason for that senseless act of violence. Stubbing your toe on the door frame? I guess God wanted to smite your toe.
  
  This statement denies the very existence of free will, and turns everyone into nothing more than chess pieces that God shuffles around on a playing field for no other purpose than his own amusement. Really? That's the God you want me to love? One who meddles in every aspect of my life, like a kid tipping an ant farm? This cliche is kind of tied to the next one.
  
  
• "God never gives us more than we can handle"
  Ever said that to someone who was considering suicide? Or, better yet, have you ever said that to someone who was left behind after a loved one committed suicide? No? Why not? Because it's just wrong, that's why! It’s wrong because factual circumstances of living prove that sometimes this life does bring with it more than we can handle, as evidenced by the fact that this person's loved one just committed suicide.
  
  
• "There, but for the grace of God, go I"
  Now, think about that for a second, and the implication of what that says about the person to whom you are referring.
  
  Are they where they are because they lack the grace of God that others receive?
  
  Does God pick and choose whom grace lands upon, intentionally withholding it from some people?
  
  I know that people who say this don’t mean it that way, but that is what they are saying – even if indirectly. Feel free to be thankful for where you are but let’s stop heaping coals on other people’s shoulders – even if unintentionally.
  
  
• "Love the sinner, Hate the sin"
  This one has been really popular these days, particularly in light of all of the LGBT issues that have been cropping up. The problem I have with this one is the comma. It should be a period.
  
  After further thought, I have a problem with the comma, everything that comes after it, and “the sinner.”
  
  Who am I (and who are you) to be deciding for someone else what is getting between them and God? I’m all for doing it in regard to our own lives but in someone else’s life? Hands off. Who do we think we are? God? Which brings us to the next one, but we'll get to that in a sec.
  
  The real problem I have with this one is that there’s not a period after love.
  
  Love. Period.
  
  
• "It's our responsibility to judge"
  Says who?!?! This has been a popular defence among moralist bloggers of late. Apparently, it's cool to judge.
  
  Well, I wanna be cool too, so I'm gonna judge them for trying to justify judging others. Don’t worry though – I’m loving the sinner, hating the sin when I do it. So, it’s OK. Right?
  
  Oh, give me just a minute though. It turns out I’ve got a log in my eye. I’ll need to take care of that first. (If you're not certain of that reference, check your bible. I'm sure you can find one at any local church.)
  
  
• "There are no atheists in foxholes"
  Really? There are atheists in church and you honestly think there are no atheists in foxholes?!?!
  
  Look, I get that the point is supposed to be that when faced with death we all turn to God. However, not only is that simply not true for everyone when faced with death, it is really bad logic.
  
  Allow me to illustrate:.
  
  When faced with death in a foxhole – grenades flying overhead and limbs being blown off the person next to me – I am likely to shit myself. It does not follow that I should always shit myself.
  
  In foxholes there are a whole bunch of people trying to stay alive and they pretty much don’t care what the other person believes about God. They just want to stay alive… and probably not shit themselves.

Now, I'm sure, given time, there are a plethora of other stupid platitudes that moralistic religious types use to try to console, cajole, and justify why everyone should bow down the the same "Magic-Man-in-the-Sky" that they do. But, I think this is enough to get people thinking, and maybe start a conversation.

Some of what you say here may have some merit, but what is the larger point you are trying to make?

Are you saying that Christians should be silent about their faith because it may hurt feelings and feelings is more important than the truth?
Are you saying leave other people alone because it is none of our business or it really does not matter what we think or do?
Or are you just saying God is a myth so quit harping about it?
Have you noticed how the world is turning how society has become so narcissistic, depraved and ignorant? Half the nation is on anti-depressants because they are so lost and lonely.

No. What I am saying is to take a minute, and think, before opening one's mouth. What I'm saying is that simplistic, sophomoric platitudes rarely make anyone feel better, and, quite often, make people feel worse. So, instead of trying to apply some proverbial band-aid, take the time to talk to the person, hear them, and engage with them.

And instead of trying to score intellectual points with things like "No atheists in foxholes", or pascale's Retarded Wager, try having honest, discourse with people.

no, you are either not saying much of anything --- because your advice is exactly what they are doing or trying to do.

or, you are saying to Christians if you cannot say the exactly proper thing for the moment (and who can ever be sure what that is) then keep you mouth closed and your God to yourself.

Either way, I do not really think your advice is all that fair. Yes, I agree, strong preaching and repeated preaching is an affront and not correct, but what you are implying is like a "don't you dare say a thing about it."

No it's not. Take the "Have you heard of Jesus" bit. Does that really strike you as a reasonable, rational, logical question in the 21st century? I mean, do you honestly believe that there is anyone that you are going to "witness" to that has never, once, in their lives heard pretty much all of the things you are going to say to them? If not, then to what purpose, other than being annoying, and self-righteous, are you wasting time telling someone something they have already heard - repeatedly, likely - and already know?

Instead, how about you tell them about your life. Don't hammer them with "Well God did this for me..." Just talk to them. Let your life, and your attitude be your "Witness". Do you really think God needs another town crier, shouting out the news that he exists? Ya don't think that narrative has already been pretty well spread?

You really are vermin aren't you. Your OP attacked Christians. I called you on your attack so in your Post # 9, you apologized for attacking Christians and here you go off again attacking Christians. How old are you? Twelve?

Look. I made the point in post #9 that I was referring to moralists, not all Christians. If, after that, anything I say offends you, personally, either you are far too thin-skinned, or you are one of those moralists, and just don't like having your shit told about you to your face.

I don't care which. Get over yourself.

 

[turzovka]

Then you must know some really unintelligent non-christians. When I am consoling a friend at a funeral, i remind them that, not only is their loved one still with them in their heart, and memories, but they are physically still with us, as there universe is the great cosmic recycle - energy, and matter are never lost; only converted. So, their loved on is, literally, with us in the air we breathe, the atoms, and molecules around us, in the very cosmic stuff that surrounds us, and makes up each and every one of us. See? Comfort to be found, without relying on some "Magic-Man-in-the-Sky".

FYI, I welcome strong criticism and am never offended. So I assume you are similar? Because what you just said there strikes me as total new age rubbish. Why rubbish? Because it is a lie that keeps people in total darkness. If they are “still with us” then why does a mother cry for all her remaining 20 or 30 years having lost a child? Because she can no longer see him, talk to him, touch him, or witness his own life and joys. Your words offer no consolation, just worthless baloney.

Only in heaven will that reality come true. And it will last forever. But you want to squelch all that hope because you sound so sure that God is a myth, well then until we can work through that fundamental difference there is no way we agree on anything along these lines.

And you think that is any less condescending?!?! I am 50 years old. You don't think that I have had multiple opportunities in my life to consider cosmic events, the possible existence of divinity, and the possible consequences for choosing to reject any given theology?!? Really???? But you're being...how was it you put it? "Kind, and thoughtful" of me...

As St. Augustine said “our hearts are restless until they rest in God.” I see it ALL THE TIME. The only people I know who are at peace in this life and with all their struggles and setbacks are Christians who are comforted knowing if they are obedient and kind then heaven awaits for them and those dear to them. That will bring comfort to anyone of any age, 50, 80 or 100.

 

[the_human_being]

Some of what you say here may have some merit, but what is the larger point you are trying to make?

Are you saying that Christians should be silent about their faith because it may hurt feelings and feelings is more important than the truth?
Are you saying leave other people alone because it is none of our business or it really does not matter what we think or do?
Or are you just saying God is a myth so quit harping about it?
Have you noticed how the world is turning how society has become so narcissistic, depraved and ignorant? Half the nation is on anti-depressants because they are so lost and lonely.

No. What I am saying is to take a minute, and think, before opening one's mouth. What I'm saying is that simplistic, sophomoric platitudes rarely make anyone feel better, and, quite often, make people feel worse. So, instead of trying to apply some proverbial band-aid, take the time to talk to the person, hear them, and engage with them.

And instead of trying to score intellectual points with things like "No atheists in foxholes", or pascale's Retarded Wager, try having honest, discourse with people.

no, you are either not saying much of anything --- because your advice is exactly what they are doing or trying to do.

or, you are saying to Christians if you cannot say the exactly proper thing for the moment (and who can ever be sure what that is) then keep you mouth closed and your God to yourself.

Either way, I do not really think your advice is all that fair. Yes, I agree, strong preaching and repeated preaching is an affront and not correct, but what you are implying is like a "don't you dare say a thing about it."

No it's not. Take the "Have you heard of Jesus" bit. Does that really strike you as a reasonable, rational, logical question in the 21st century? I mean, do you honestly believe that there is anyone that you are going to "witness" to that has never, once, in their lives heard pretty much all of the things you are going to say to them? If not, then to what purpose, other than being annoying, and self-righteous, are you wasting time telling someone something they have already heard - repeatedly, likely - and already know?

Instead, how about you tell them about your life. Don't hammer them with "Well God did this for me..." Just talk to them. Let your life, and your attitude be your "Witness". Do you really think God needs another town crier, shouting out the news that he exists? Ya don't think that narrative has already been pretty well spread?

You really are vermin aren't you. Your OP attacked Christians. I called you on your attack so in your Post # 9, you apologized for attacking Christians and here you go off again attacking Christians. How old are you? Twelve?

Look. I made the point in post #9 that I was referring to moralists, not all Christians. If, after that, anything I say offends you, personally, either you are far too thin-skinned, or you are one of those moralists, and just don't like having your shit told about you to your face.

I don't care which. Get over yourself.

It appears you can't take the heat. It's your stupid OP. It is YOU who wishes to dictate to others how they y-should speak and what they should discuss. To most of us, you are like an old busy-bodied gossipy and meddlesome woman putting your nose into other people's business.

 

[Czernobog]

Then you must know some really unintelligent non-christians. When I am consoling a friend at a funeral, i remind them that, not only is their loved one still with them in their heart, and memories, but they are physically still with us, as there universe is the great cosmic recycle - energy, and matter are never lost; only converted. So, their loved on is, literally, with us in the air we breathe, the atoms, and molecules around us, in the very cosmic stuff that surrounds us, and makes up each and every one of us. See? Comfort to be found, without relying on some "Magic-Man-in-the-Sky".

FYI, I welcome strong criticism and am never offended. So I assume you are similar? Because what you just said there strikes me as total new age rubbish. Why rubbish? Because it is a lie that keeps people in total darkness. If they are “still with us” then why does a mother cry for all her remaining 20 or 30 years having lost a child? Because she can no longer see him, talk to him, touch him, or witness his own life and joys. Your words offer no consolation, just worthless baloney.

Uh...if a mother is that inconsolable over the loss of a child for the next 20 years, she doesn't need a friendly shoulder to cry on; she needs fucking counseling! I lost a child 15 years ago. Do I remember her? Sure. Do I take a moment on her birthday, and the day of her death? Sure. Am I still overcome with grief? Nope. It happened. It sucked. I had other children. I moved on with my life. That's what rational people do.

Only in heaven will that reality come true. And it will last forever. But you want to squelch all that hope because you sound so sure that God is a myth, well then until we can work through that fundamental difference there is no way we agree on anything along these lines.

Hey. If that fairy tale helps you sleep at night, good on ya. But don't presume that just because some of us choose not to rely on a fairy tale, that relying on the reality proven scientific law cannot be comforting, or is "baloney".

And you think that is any less condescending?!?! I am 50 years old. You don't think that I have had multiple opportunities in my life to consider cosmic events, the possible existence of divinity, and the possible consequences for choosing to reject any given theology?!? Really???? But you're being...how was it you put it? "Kind, and thoughtful" of me...

As St. Augustine said “our hearts are restless until they rest in God.” I see it ALL THE TIME. The only people I know who are at peace in this life and with all their struggles and setbacks are Christians who are comforted knowing if they are obedient and kind then heaven awaits for them and those dear to them. That will bring comfort to anyone of any age, 50, 80 or 100.

Hi. Perfectly at peace. Yup. I'm well aware that if I "chose wrong", I go to Hell. Complete with eternal suffering, pain, blah, blah, blah. Okay. You see, the one thing that I am a big proponent of is ":Choices have consequences". I made my choice. A long time ago. Once a decision has been made, I don't believe in spending a lot of time second guessing your decision. Doing that only erodes self-confidence, leads to indecision, and an inability to act in your own life. I make a choice. I accept whatever consequences that choice brings.

I suspect from your comments that your experience with non-christians is either severely lacking, or skewed by your own pre-conceptions. For example, I suspect that, at least in your own mind, you're calling "Bullshit" on my position, that I can't really be comfortable with my decision. But, I can be, and I am.

 

[turzovka]

Then you must know some really unintelligent non-christians. When I am consoling a friend at a funeral, i remind them that, not only is their loved one still with them in their heart, and memories, but they are physically still with us, as there universe is the great cosmic recycle - energy, and matter are never lost; only converted. So, their loved on is, literally, with us in the air we breathe, the atoms, and molecules around us, in the very cosmic stuff that surrounds us, and makes up each and every one of us. See? Comfort to be found, without relying on some "Magic-Man-in-the-Sky".

FYI, I welcome strong criticism and am never offended. So I assume you are similar? Because what you just said there strikes me as total new age rubbish. Why rubbish? Because it is a lie that keeps people in total darkness. If they are “still with us” then why does a mother cry for all her remaining 20 or 30 years having lost a child? Because she can no longer see him, talk to him, touch him, or witness his own life and joys. Your words offer no consolation, just worthless baloney.

Uh...if a mother is that inconsolable over the loss of a child for the next 20 years, she doesn't need a friendly shoulder to cry on; she needs fucking counseling! I lost a child 15 years ago. Do I remember her? Sure. Do I take a moment on her birthday, and the day of her death? Sure. Am I still overcome with grief? Nope. It happened. It sucked. I had other children. I moved on with my life. That's what rational people do.

Only in heaven will that reality come true. And it will last forever. But you want to squelch all that hope because you sound so sure that God is a myth, well then until we can work through that fundamental difference there is no way we agree on anything along these lines.

Hey. If that fairy tale helps you sleep at night, good on ya. But don't presume that just because some of us choose not to rely on a fairy tale, that relying on the reality proven scientific law cannot be comforting, or is "baloney".

And you think that is any less condescending?!?! I am 50 years old. You don't think that I have had multiple opportunities in my life to consider cosmic events, the possible existence of divinity, and the possible consequences for choosing to reject any given theology?!? Really???? But you're being...how was it you put it? "Kind, and thoughtful" of me...

As St. Augustine said “our hearts are restless until they rest in God.” I see it ALL THE TIME. The only people I know who are at peace in this life and with all their struggles and setbacks are Christians who are comforted knowing if they are obedient and kind then heaven awaits for them and those dear to them. That will bring comfort to anyone of any age, 50, 80 or 100.

Hi. Perfectly at peace. Yup. I'm well aware that if I "chose wrong", I go to Hell. Complete with eternal suffering, pain, blah, blah, blah. Okay. You see, the one thing that I am a big proponent of is ":Choices have consequences". I made my choice. A long time ago. Once a decision has been made, I don't believe in spending a lot of time second guessing your decision. Doing that only erodes self-confidence, leads to indecision, and an inability to act in your own life. I make a choice. I accept whatever consequences that choice brings.

I suspect from your comments that your experience with non-christians is either severely lacking, or skewed by your own pre-conceptions. For example, I suspect that, at least in your own mind, you're calling "Bullshit" on my position, that I can't really be comfortable with my decision. But, I can be, and I am.

Actually, I feel very sympathetic towards you and having lost someone so young and dear to you.

I will respond later on your other comments.

 

[Czernobog]

Then you must know some really unintelligent non-christians. When I am consoling a friend at a funeral, i remind them that, not only is their loved one still with them in their heart, and memories, but they are physically still with us, as there universe is the great cosmic recycle - energy, and matter are never lost; only converted. So, their loved on is, literally, with us in the air we breathe, the atoms, and molecules around us, in the very cosmic stuff that surrounds us, and makes up each and every one of us. See? Comfort to be found, without relying on some "Magic-Man-in-the-Sky".

FYI, I welcome strong criticism and am never offended. So I assume you are similar? Because what you just said there strikes me as total new age rubbish. Why rubbish? Because it is a lie that keeps people in total darkness. If they are “still with us” then why does a mother cry for all her remaining 20 or 30 years having lost a child? Because she can no longer see him, talk to him, touch him, or witness his own life and joys. Your words offer no consolation, just worthless baloney.

Uh...if a mother is that inconsolable over the loss of a child for the next 20 years, she doesn't need a friendly shoulder to cry on; she needs fucking counseling! I lost a child 15 years ago. Do I remember her? Sure. Do I take a moment on her birthday, and the day of her death? Sure. Am I still overcome with grief? Nope. It happened. It sucked. I had other children. I moved on with my life. That's what rational people do.

Only in heaven will that reality come true. And it will last forever. But you want to squelch all that hope because you sound so sure that God is a myth, well then until we can work through that fundamental difference there is no way we agree on anything along these lines.

Hey. If that fairy tale helps you sleep at night, good on ya. But don't presume that just because some of us choose not to rely on a fairy tale, that relying on the reality proven scientific law cannot be comforting, or is "baloney".

And you think that is any less condescending?!?! I am 50 years old. You don't think that I have had multiple opportunities in my life to consider cosmic events, the possible existence of divinity, and the possible consequences for choosing to reject any given theology?!? Really???? But you're being...how was it you put it? "Kind, and thoughtful" of me...

As St. Augustine said “our hearts are restless until they rest in God.” I see it ALL THE TIME. The only people I know who are at peace in this life and with all their struggles and setbacks are Christians who are comforted knowing if they are obedient and kind then heaven awaits for them and those dear to them. That will bring comfort to anyone of any age, 50, 80 or 100.

Hi. Perfectly at peace. Yup. I'm well aware that if I "chose wrong", I go to Hell. Complete with eternal suffering, pain, blah, blah, blah. Okay. You see, the one thing that I am a big proponent of is ":Choices have consequences". I made my choice. A long time ago. Once a decision has been made, I don't believe in spending a lot of time second guessing your decision. Doing that only erodes self-confidence, leads to indecision, and an inability to act in your own life. I make a choice. I accept whatever consequences that choice brings.

I suspect from your comments that your experience with non-christians is either severely lacking, or skewed by your own pre-conceptions. For example, I suspect that, at least in your own mind, you're calling "Bullshit" on my position, that I can't really be comfortable with my decision. But, I can be, and I am.

Actually, I feel very sympathetic towards you and having lost someone so young and dear to you.

I will respond later on your other comments.

Thank you, but really not necessary. As I said, I dealt with my grief years ago. She is out there in the cosmos, being a part of everything, including myself. And I have two wonderful kids, as well as a step-son I couldn't love more if he were my own kid. My life has been, and continues to be full, and rewarding.

 

[Meriweather]

I get that the people who say these things are trying to be kind, loving, and even humble. However, if you want to be kind, loving, and humble, then instead of spouting useless platitudes, maybe you should think about the words coming out of your mouth, and how those words might be perceived by others.

A few examples:

• "Have you heard of Jesus?"
  Really??? Seriously??? Does anyone honestly think that in the 21st century there is anyone, who has not spent their entire life living in a bomb shelter with absolutely no contact with the outside world, who has not heard of Jesus??? Really?
  
  
• "Everything happens for a reason."
  No it doesn't. I understand that this is a statement meant to give comfort to those who are suffering, and see no purpose to the madness, and chaos around them. But, think about the implications of that comment. Implied in this is a very specific understanding of how God interacts with the world. Specifically, it says God directs all things. So, mass murders? God had a reason for that senseless act of violence. Stubbing your toe on the door frame? I guess God wanted to smite your toe.
  
  This statement denies the very existence of free will, and turns everyone into nothing more than chess pieces that God shuffles around on a playing field for no other purpose than his own amusement. Really? That's the God you want me to love? One who meddles in every aspect of my life, like a kid tipping an ant farm? This cliche is kind of tied to the next one.
  
  
• "God never gives us more than we can handle"
  Ever said that to someone who was considering suicide? Or, better yet, have you ever said that to someone who was left behind after a loved one committed suicide? No? Why not? Because it's just wrong, that's why! It’s wrong because factual circumstances of living prove that sometimes this life does bring with it more than we can handle, as evidenced by the fact that this person's loved one just committed suicide.
  
  
• "There, but for the grace of God, go I"
  Now, think about that for a second, and the implication of what that says about the person to whom you are referring.
  
  Are they where they are because they lack the grace of God that others receive?
  
  Does God pick and choose whom grace lands upon, intentionally withholding it from some people?
  
  I know that people who say this don’t mean it that way, but that is what they are saying – even if indirectly. Feel free to be thankful for where you are but let’s stop heaping coals on other people’s shoulders – even if unintentionally.
  
  
• "Love the sinner, Hate the sin"
  This one has been really popular these days, particularly in light of all of the LGBT issues that have been cropping up. The problem I have with this one is the comma. It should be a period.
  
  After further thought, I have a problem with the comma, everything that comes after it, and “the sinner.”
  
  Who am I (and who are you) to be deciding for someone else what is getting between them and God? I’m all for doing it in regard to our own lives but in someone else’s life? Hands off. Who do we think we are? God? Which brings us to the next one, but we'll get to that in a sec.
  
  The real problem I have with this one is that there’s not a period after love.
  
  Love. Period.
  
  
• "It's our responsibility to judge"
  Says who?!?! This has been a popular defence among moralist bloggers of late. Apparently, it's cool to judge.
  
  Well, I wanna be cool too, so I'm gonna judge them for trying to justify judging others. Don’t worry though – I’m loving the sinner, hating the sin when I do it. So, it’s OK. Right?
  
  Oh, give me just a minute though. It turns out I’ve got a log in my eye. I’ll need to take care of that first. (If you're not certain of that reference, check your bible. I'm sure you can find one at any local church.)
  
  
• "There are no atheists in foxholes"
  Really? There are atheists in church and you honestly think there are no atheists in foxholes?!?!
  
  Look, I get that the point is supposed to be that when faced with death we all turn to God. However, not only is that simply not true for everyone when faced with death, it is really bad logic.
  
  Allow me to illustrate:.
  
  When faced with death in a foxhole – grenades flying overhead and limbs being blown off the person next to me – I am likely to shit myself. It does not follow that I should always shit myself.
  
  In foxholes there are a whole bunch of people trying to stay alive and they pretty much don’t care what the other person believes about God. They just want to stay alive… and probably not shit themselves.

Now, I'm sure, given time, there are a plethora of other stupid platitudes that moralistic religious types use to try to console, cajole, and justify why everyone should bow down the the same "Magic-Man-in-the-Sky" that they do. But, I think this is enough to get people thinking, and maybe start a conversation.

I would not say "stop" using, but perhaps should consider using sparingly. On the other side of the coin: A few years ago, within days of each other, I lost my best friend, my dad, and two favorite aunts. Right before Christmas of that year. All but one death were quite unexpected. What do you say to someone who has just suffered such terrible loss? People don't know what to say in such circumstances, and the best thing to do when offered a platitude by someone who is struggling to find some words of comfort is to hug them and thank them sincerely for well meant condolences.

Keep in mind that a wordless hug or a comforting pat is perfectly acceptable. People do the best they can in these circumstances, so appreciate the well meant thought and cut them some slack.

 

[Blackrook]

Believe it or not, some people find comfort in the belief that we are more than bags of meat hanging off bones, doomed to die and become wormfood.

 

[Czernobog]

Believe it or not, some people find comfort in the belief that we are more than bags of meat hanging off bones, doomed to die and become wormfood.

But few people find comfort in worthless platitudes, or worn out cliches.

 

[foggedinn]

God does give men more than they can handle. It is a truth of life and a truth of scripture. When this happens, the options are limited. One can either trust in the Word, or lay down and die.