Commercial Electrolysis uses 53kwh of energy to produce 1kg of Hydrogen containing 33.6 Kwh of energy... Massively entropic!

[justoffal]

So the question here is where do you get the energy for the process? Hydrocarbons maybe? I haven't called any manufacturers yet to ask how they power their process but I'm sure they all have electric bills. Furthermore....it takes an additional 3Kwh per kg to liquefy it for transport and <> OH <> that's right! You have to transport it....in What? Electric tankers???... That have to be charged by um What??? A hydrogen powered generator perhaps?

how much energy does it take to concentrate hydrogen - Google Search

www.google.com

Jo

 

[ABikerSailor]

Not for nothing, but do you have a link for what you are ranting about?

 

[EMH]

What is known as

The IDIOCY of the *Co2* FRAUD


Meanwhile, Earth climate data continues to read precisely

NO WARMING in the ATMOSPHERE
NO WARMING in the OCEANS
NO ongoing NET ICE MELT
NO BREAKOUT in Canes
NO OCEAN RISE

 

[justoffal]

Not for nothing, but do you have a link for what you are ranting about?

Yeah....should have put them in. Gimme a sec.

Jo

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

So the question here is where do you get the energy for the process? Hydrocarbons maybe? I haven't called any manufacturers yet to ask how they power their process but I'm sure they all have electric bills. Furthermore....it takes an additional 3Kwh per kg to liquefy it for transport and <> OH <> that's right! You have to transport it....in What? Electric tankers???... That have to be charged by um What??? A hydrogen powered generator perhaps?

how much energy does it take to concentrate hydrogen - Google Search

www.google.com

Jo

I'd never accuse the greens of being good at physics or math.

 

[TroglocratsRdumb]

The whole concept of eclectic cars being "zero emissions" is bogus.
Climate Cultists don't understand the Laws of Thermodynamics.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

So the question here is where do you get the energy for the process? Hydrocarbons maybe? I haven't called any manufacturers yet to ask how they power their process but I'm sure they all have electric bills. Furthermore....it takes an additional 3Kwh per kg to liquefy it for transport and <> OH <> that's right! You have to transport it....in What? Electric tankers???... That have to be charged by um What??? A hydrogen powered generator perhaps?

how much energy does it take to concentrate hydrogen - Google Search

www.google.com

Jo

Nothing really surprising, here. No process can create energy from nothing. If any process could be 100% efficient (which none are) then you could get out as much usable energy as you put into that process. But being what it is, any process that you put energy into, and out of which you get energy, is going to lose some of it along the way, so what you get out is less than what you put in.


What makes fossil fuels so valuable, and so essential is that they already contain a great deal of energy. They contain so much energy that even after all the energy and resources that are expended to mine them out of the ground, transport them, process them, refine them, and transport the refined products to where they will be sold, the resulting product still contains much more energy, and much more value, that what it took to obtain it.

The same will never be true of electrical power, nor of hydrogen as a fuel. At least not until we finally achieve, if we ever do, efficient controlled fusion as an energy source, fueled by hydrogen.

 

[justoffal]

Nothing really surprising, here. No process can create energy from nothing. If any process could be 100% efficient (which none are) then you could get out as much usable energy as you put into that process. But being what it is, any process that you put energy into, and out of which you get energy, is going to lose some of it along the way, so what you get out is less than what you put in.


What makes fossil fuels so valuable, and so essential is that they already contain a great deal of energy. They contain so much energy that even after all the energy and resources that are expended to mine them out of the ground, transport them, process them, refine them, and transport the refined products to where they will be sold, the resulting product still contains much more energy, and much more value, that what it took to obtain it.

The same will never be true of electrical power, nor of hydrogen as a fuel. At least not until we finally achieve, if we ever do, efficient controlled fusion as an energy source, fueled by hydrogen.

Fossil fuels if that's what they actually are.. represent massive amounts of solar storage. The sun did the work over eons and we are merely stealing it.

Jo

 

[ABikerSailor]

So the question here is where do you get the energy for the process? Hydrocarbons maybe? I haven't called any manufacturers yet to ask how they power their process but I'm sure they all have electric bills. Furthermore....it takes an additional 3Kwh per kg to liquefy it for transport and <> OH <> that's right! You have to transport it....in What? Electric tankers???... That have to be charged by um What??? A hydrogen powered generator perhaps?

how much energy does it take to concentrate hydrogen - Google Search

www.google.com

Jo

Okay..................so you provided a link (a Google search which isn't really useful, but okay), but in your post you also put in something that isn't really necessary for using hydrogen for fuel, namely the liquefication of it.

From your Google search......................

Hydrogen electrolysis | AHDB

Find out how electrolysis can be used to produce hydrogen from renewable resources

ahdb.org.uk

How much energy is produced?​

Electrolysis of ammonia in waste water consumes just 1.55 kWh of electrical energy to produce 1 kg of hydrogen. When used as part of a fuel cell, 1 kg of hydrogen can produce 33 kWh of electrical energy.

If the electricity for electrolysis comes from renewables (wind and solar), there is no ‘direct’ release of CO2 when generating, or burning, the hydrogen.

So, you can see from the link that if hydrogen is extracted from ammonia via electrolysis, it will produce twice the energy required to extract it.

You gotta get better with your links dude.

 

[justoffal]

The whole concept of eclectic cars being "zero emissions" is bogus.
Climate Cultists don't understand the Laws of Thermodynamics.

Why can't I rate your posts?
Oh well...Great point!

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Electrolysis of ammonia in waste water consumes just 1.55 kWh of electrical energy to produce 1 kg of hydrogen. When used as part of a fuel cell, 1 kg of hydrogen can produce 33 kWh of electrical energy.

That is very obviously bullshit.

What you are claiming, here, is a chain of processes that can give out more than twenty times as much energy as was put into it. That is physically impossible, and anyone with even the lightest grasp of physics can see that.

So, you can see from the link that if hydrogen is extracted from ammonia via electrolysis, it will produce twice the energy required to extract it.

And you're as bad at math as you are at physics.

 

[justoffal]

Okay..................so you provided a link (a Google search which isn't really useful, but okay), but in your post you also put in something that isn't really necessary for using hydrogen for fuel, namely the liquefication of it.

From your Google search......................

Hydrogen electrolysis | AHDB

Find out how electrolysis can be used to produce hydrogen from renewable resources

ahdb.org.uk

How much energy is produced?​

Electrolysis of ammonia in waste water consumes just 1.55 kWh of electrical energy to produce 1 kg of hydrogen. When used as part of a fuel cell, 1 kg of hydrogen can produce 33 kWh of electrical energy.

If the electricity for electrolysis comes from renewables (wind and solar), there is no ‘direct’ release of CO2 when generating, or burning, the hydrogen.

So, you can see from the link that if hydrogen is extracted from ammonia via electrolysis, it will produce twice the energy required to extract it.

You gotta get better with your links dude.

Yeah....I saw that too....
Don't really buy it though.
They're talking about
Sewage plant process for one thing and you simply have no idea what amounts of toxic release your talking about or how much machinery it would take to maintain it. The main source would necessarily be commercial production. What you would get from treatment plants ( if those numbers are even correct ) wouldn't be enough and would take too long. So no...I'm fine with the link and yes I read that one too.
There simply isn't enough SHIT in the world to make it viable.

Jo

 

[justoffal]

That is very obviously bullshit.

What you are claiming, here, is a chain of processes that can give out more than twenty times as much energy as was put into it. That is physically impossible, and anyone with even the lightest grasp of physics can see that.




And you're as bad at math as you are at physics.

I read that link.... Ammonia processing is so heavily regulated that the expense to run that kind of extraction would lie in the compliance costs. He is also forgetting that fuel cells do not grow on trees And wait to be harvested....they are labor intense components that have a large carbon footprint at the manufacturing plant.

Jo

 

[surada]

Okay..................so you provided a link (a Google search which isn't really useful, but okay), but in your post you also put in something that isn't really necessary for using hydrogen for fuel, namely the liquefication of it.

From your Google search......................

Hydrogen electrolysis | AHDB

Find out how electrolysis can be used to produce hydrogen from renewable resources

ahdb.org.uk

How much energy is produced?​

Electrolysis of ammonia in waste water consumes just 1.55 kWh of electrical energy to produce 1 kg of hydrogen. When used as part of a fuel cell, 1 kg of hydrogen can produce 33 kWh of electrical energy.

If the electricity for electrolysis comes from renewables (wind and solar), there is no ‘direct’ release of CO2 when generating, or burning, the hydrogen.

So, you can see from the link that if hydrogen is extracted from ammonia via electrolysis, it will produce twice the energy required to extract it.

You gotta get better with your links dude.

NEOM’s green hydrogen plant will secure Saudi Arabia’s clean energy transition: CEO

The $8.4 billion green hydrogen production plant in the heart of Saudi Arabia’s NEOM will put the Kingdom on the global map for clean energy transition,

english.alarabiya.net

 

[surada]

I read that link.... Ammonia processing is so heavily regulated that the expense to run that kind of extraction would lie in the compliance costs. He is also forgetting that fuel cells do not grow on trees And wait to be harvested....they are labor intense components that have a large carbon footprint at the manufacturing plant.

Jo

NEOM’s green hydrogen plant will secure Saudi Arabia’s clean energy transition: CEO

The $8.4 billion green hydrogen production plant in the heart of Saudi Arabia’s NEOM will put the Kingdom on the global map for clean energy transition,

english.alarabiya.net

 

[justoffal]

NEOM’s green hydrogen plant will secure Saudi Arabia’s clean energy transition: CEO

The $8.4 billion green hydrogen production plant in the heart of Saudi Arabia’s NEOM will put the Kingdom on the global map for clean energy transition,

english.alarabiya.net

Lol....wait till they have to pay for the finished product....sooo

NEOM’s green hydrogen plant will secure Saudi Arabia’s clean energy transition: CEO

The $8.4 billion green hydrogen production plant in the heart of Saudi Arabia’s NEOM will put the Kingdom on the global map for clean energy transition,

english.alarabiya.net

600 tons a day....a 10B installation for 600 tons??
Haven't done the numbers yet but I'm pretty sure that's not enough for medium sized city. Also where are you going to get all the Iridium you need for the fuel cells?

Jo

 

[surada]

Lol....wait till they have to pay for the finished product....sooo

600 tons a day....a 10B installation for 600 tons??
Haven't done the numbers yet but I'm pretty sure that's not enough for medium sized city. Also where are you going to get all the Iridium you need for the fuel cells?

Jo

KAUST has been doing research on this since the 1980. I've seen it, but I'm not that strong in science. I posted the article because I thought you would understand it.

 

[justoffal]

KAUST has been doing research on this since the 1980. I've seen it, but I'm not that strong in science. I posted the article because I thought you would understand it.

I would love to see it work...
Problem is it's a third hand product.... First you need energy (Solar Panels), then you need process (Electrolysis) ...then you need containment. Who knows...maybe we will have no choice...but it will certainly cost up to 10 bucks a mile to travel after all is said and done.