Constitutional Law IS the Law of the Land AND comes from the same God of Nature

[emilynghiem]

Anyone have an issue with that?
That Constitutional Laws ARE the Law of the Land
and were given to the Founding Fathers to put natural
laws in writing, from the same Divine Source,
God of Nature, who is the same God in the Bible.

And Jesus as embodying and representing Universal Spirit of
Justice with Mercy, or Restorative Justice, and
"Equal Justice for All"
Equally fulfills the natural laws made statutory by the state
as the spiritual laws kept in sacred scriptures by the church.

Does anyone believe in that besides me on here?
Anyone okay or not okay with this being the same God
and the same Jesus fulfilling two separate realms of laws
for separate folds of the same flock?

The people as the government, under natural laws
the people as the church, under scriptural laws

Any problems reconciling these two while
recognizing their independence from each other at the same time?

Thank you!

I am starting threads for
Consensus on God if that is where the divisive issues are
Consensus on Law if it's our political process that's gotten off track from bullying/abuse
Unequally Yoked on how to resolve conflicts under different authorities of law

If you have ideas on how to ADDRESS points that you feel are critical
in why conflicts aren't being resolved, please post to whatever thread
you feel you want to hash this out and let's hash it out. Thank you, Emily

 

[Vandalshandle]

I have read the original Constitution at the National Archives, and I can attest that God has very good penmanship.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The Constitution is the seminal charter of the land.

That is all.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Anyone have an issue with that?
That Constitutional Laws ARE the Law of the Land
and were given to the Founding Fathers to put natural
laws in writing, from the same Divine Source,
God of Nature, who is the same God in the Bible.

And Jesus as embodying and representing Universal Spirit of
Justice with Mercy, or Restorative Justice, and
"Equal Justice for All"
Equally fulfills the natural laws made statutory by the state
as the spiritual laws kept in sacred scriptures by the church.

Does anyone believe in that besides me on here?
Anyone okay or not okay with this being the same God
and the same Jesus fulfilling two separate realms of laws
for separate folds of the same flock?

The people as the government, under natural laws
the people as the church, under scriptural laws

Any problems reconciling these two while
recognizing their independence from each other at the same time?

Thank you!

I am starting threads for
Consensus on God if that is where the divisive issues are
Consensus on Law if it's our political process that's gotten off track from bullying/abuse
Unequally Yoked on how to resolve conflicts under different authorities of law

If you have ideas on how to ADDRESS points that you feel are critical
in why conflicts aren't being resolved, please post to whatever thread
you feel you want to hash this out and let's hash it out. Thank you, Emily

The Constitution isn’t ‘laws’ per se, but codified principles upon which laws are based and judged.

The Constitution is the culmination of centuries of Anglo-American judicial tradition dating, back to the Magna Carta and the Assizes of Henry II.

Consequently, the Constitution was not ‘given’ to the Founding Generation; it has nothing to do with any ‘gods,’ ‘divine source,’ Jesus, or the bible.

The Constitution enshrines inalienable rights innate in all humans, rights that are a fundamental aspect of indeed being human; these rights can be neither taken nor bestowed by any government, constitution, or man.

The Constitution exists only in the context of its case law, its authority emanates from the people, who are thus subject only to the rule of law, not men, as men are incapable of ruling justly.

Given the personal, subjective nature of religion, it is problematic, untenable, and arrogant to attempt to contrive some ‘divine’ justification for the Constitution; the Constitution is a secular document, it addresses secular law only, and its First Amendment jurisprudence makes it abundantly clear that church and state must be kept at all times separate.

 

[emilynghiem]

The Constitution isn’t ‘laws’ per se, but codified principles upon which laws are based and judged.

The Constitution is the culmination of centuries of Anglo-American judicial tradition dating, back to the Magna Carta and the Assizes of Henry II.

Consequently, the Constitution was not ‘given’ to the Founding Generation; it has nothing to do with any ‘gods,’ ‘divine source,’ Jesus, or the bible.

The Constitution enshrines inalienable rights innate in all humans, rights that are a fundamental aspect of indeed being human; these rights can be neither taken nor bestowed by any government, constitution, or man.

The Constitution exists only in the context of its case law, its authority emanates from the people, who are thus subject only to the rule of law, not men, as men are incapable of ruling justly.

Given the personal, subjective nature of religion, it is problematic, untenable, and arrogant to attempt to contrive some ‘divine’ justification for the Constitution; the Constitution is a secular document, it addresses secular law only, and its First Amendment jurisprudence makes it abundantly clear that church and state must be kept at all times separate.

Yes, we agree that the Constitution expresses universal rights or principles for all humans, which I was calling "natural laws".

Since humanity and these natural laws did not magically create themselves,
then whatever source you want to attribute them to, that is what is meant
by God of Nature that our Founding Fathers like Jefferson referred to.

You don't have to call it that, as long as we agree that these universal laws being "inalienable" come with human nature and human beings and the
natural order by which we relate to each other by social contracts and govt.

I happen to see it similar to the divine laws that exist independently
being "given through Moses" to put in writing; where here, the natural
laws of humanity and governance that already exist and are universal
are "put in writing" through the Constitution, so they are "given" to the
public this way, as in distributed as public knowledge as "self evident" type truths.

NOTE: I use the First Amendment to spell out the levels
that people as the government exercise power
free exercise of religion as executive power to act freely
freedom of speech as judicial power to speak your opinion and beliefs
freedom of the press as legislative power to write your own contracts and laws
and the right of the people peaceably to assemble and to
petition for redress of grievances
as democratic due process and checks and balances
in exercise all three powers in harmony with others

the balance in the law is between peace and freedom
you cannot take freedom to such an extreme that you violate
the same of others and cause a breach or disruption of the peace

nor can you impose rules for sake of peace to such an extreme
that you violate freedom

so the balance between freedom and peace
is where justice lies.

the spirit of the laws is based on consent of the governed,
respect for due process or the democratic process of petitioning
for redress of grievances, and equal protection of views/interests under the law.

So these are universal concepts and principles that govern humanity
independent of being written down or "given" to anyone in writing

but our Constitutional language and traditions GIVES us these
terms IN WRITING so we may establish agreement on what
these principles are. that is similar to how Christianity teaches
the written laws so people can agree in spirit.

So this is why I see a similarity in the process.
I see it as coming from the same God or source,
but I understand others may not see it this way.

because these laws govern all people, by human nature which is universal,
then whatever source you see all people and human nature coming from,
that is what I mean by coming from God.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Anyone have an issue with that?
That Constitutional Laws ARE the Law of the Land
and were given to the Founding Fathers to put natural
laws in writing, from the same Divine Source,
God of Nature, who is the same God in the Bible.

And Jesus as embodying and representing Universal Spirit of
Justice with Mercy, or Restorative Justice, and
"Equal Justice for All"
Equally fulfills the natural laws made statutory by the state
as the spiritual laws kept in sacred scriptures by the church.

Does anyone believe in that besides me on here?
Anyone okay or not okay with this being the same God
and the same Jesus fulfilling two separate realms of laws
for separate folds of the same flock?

The people as the government, under natural laws
the people as the church, under scriptural laws

Any problems reconciling these two while
recognizing their independence from each other at the same time?

Thank you!

I am starting threads for
Consensus on God if that is where the divisive issues are
Consensus on Law if it's our political process that's gotten off track from bullying/abuse
Unequally Yoked on how to resolve conflicts under different authorities of law

If you have ideas on how to ADDRESS points that you feel are critical
in why conflicts aren't being resolved, please post to whatever thread
you feel you want to hash this out and let's hash it out. Thank you, Emily

Proving that government, as described in the ancient story called The Bible, was inspiration for some of concepts and rules that became the founding documents of The United States does NOT prove that those concepts came from a God.

The first step in proving that God created America is proving that there is a God.

Let's start there before jumping to the conclusion that the goal of Americas founders was to codify Christian morals in to Civil Law.
On the contrary, thank (insert your preferred Deity here) that they seemed to have taken steps to make it difficult to codify ANY religion here.

 

[PratchettFan]

The Constitution was written by people and enforced by people. God has absolutely nothing to do with it.

 

[Intense]

Constitutional Law IS the Law of the Land AND comes from the same God of Nature

It's at best an interpretation and compromise of Our Interpretation, born of those at the Constitutional Convention, of what is right and just. At worst it says and means whatever the Supreme Court says it does, and that is always subject to change.

 

[AVG-JOE]

The Constitution was written by people and enforced by people. God has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Which is not to say that The Bible didn't have something to do with it, The Bible being a very influential piece of literature at the time.

The new (at that time) line of thinking known as 'Liberalism' and the writings that accompanied it also contributed a LOT to our founding documents.

 

[tjvh]

The Constitution merely reaffirms our God given Rights, it doesn't grant them... Those Rights were granted a lot longer than the Constitution has been around. People have always had the Right to protect themselves before it was written, it's when certain people believe the Constitution grants Rights, is where we get into problems.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Prove to me that God has EVER defended any rights and I'll accept that those rights were given by God.

Any and all rights that you think you have were given by to you by your fellow Monkeys.

Proof? Any and all rights a Monkey has are defended by Monkeys and Monkeys alone. When was the last time you saw the finger of God defending the rights of a weak Monkey against the will of the strong?

If God was the source of rights, police and government would be irrelevant, because God Himself would defend those rights.

 

[AVG-JOE]

The Constitution merely reaffirms our God given Rights, it doesn't grant them... Those Rights were granted a lot longer than the Constitution has been around. People have always had the Right to protect themselves before it was written, it's when certain people believe the Constitution grants Rights, is where we get into problems.

Always? Tell that tale to the guy who helplessly watched his daughter being dragged off by the kings men for the king to enjoy in 16th century Europe.

Tell that tale to the African whose life was cut short in the sugar plantations of 18th Century Cuba.

Unless a Monkey truly lives as a hermit, Monkeys have no rights except those given and protected by the baddest son-of-a-bitch in the valley.

 

[Underhill]

The Constitution merely reaffirms our God given Rights, it doesn't grant them... Those Rights were granted a lot longer than the Constitution has been around. People have always had the Right to protect themselves before it was written, it's when certain people believe the Constitution grants Rights, is where we get into problems.

Always? Tell that tale to the guy who helplessly watched his daughter being dragged off by the kings men for the king to enjoy in 16th century Europe.

Tell that tale to the African whose life was cut short in the sugar plantations of 18th Century Cuba.

Unless a Monkey truly lives as a hermit, Monkeys have no rights except those given and protected by the baddest son-of-a-bitch in the valley.

The US government being the baddest son of a bitch... sounds about right.

 

[konradv]

That Constitutional Laws ARE the Law of the Land
and were given to the Founding Fathers to put natural
laws in writing, from the same Divine Source,
God of Nature, who is the same God in the Bible.

In nature there is no law except that the strong take what they want without consequence. The Constitution is supposed to create a society in opposition to natural law, NOT in support of it.

 

[tjvh]

The Constitution merely reaffirms our God given Rights, it doesn't grant them... Those Rights were granted a lot longer than the Constitution has been around. People have always had the Right to protect themselves before it was written, it's when certain people believe the Constitution grants Rights, is where we get into problems.

Always? Tell that tale to the guy who helplessly watched his daughter being dragged off by the kings men for the king to enjoy in 16th century Europe.

Tell that tale to the African whose life was cut short in the sugar plantations of 18th Century Cuba.

Unless a Monkey truly lives as a hermit, Monkeys have no rights except those given and protected by the baddest son-of-a-bitch in the valley.

Those people had the Right to take action on their oppressors... History has shown that some did, and others did not.

 

[Mad Scientist]

In nature there is no law except that the strong take what they want without consequence. The Constitution is supposed to create a society in opposition to natural law, NOT in support of it.

The Constitution is the framework of our System of Government.

It doesn't create a society.

 

[tjvh]

Prove to me that God has EVER defended any rights and I'll accept that those rights were given by God.

Any and all rights that you think you have were given by to you by your fellow Monkeys.

Proof? Any and all rights a Monkey has are defended by Monkeys and Monkeys alone. When was the last time you saw the finger of God defending the rights of a weak Monkey against the will of strong?

If God was the source of rights, police and government would be irrelevant.

I used the term God to mean whatever your beliefs want it to. My point is the Constitution doesn't grant us Rights, it reaffirms Rights we already had.

 

[AVG-JOE]

That Constitutional Laws ARE the Law of the Land
and were given to the Founding Fathers to put natural
laws in writing, from the same Divine Source,
God of Nature, who is the same God in the Bible.

In nature there is no law except that the strong take what they want without consequence. The Constitution is supposed to create a society in opposition to natural law, NOT in support of it.

Sentient Monkeys are proof that evolution works.

Sentience means a growing understanding of survival of the species over survival of the strongest individuals. Religion is a significant contribution to that concept, but not the final step.

 

[PratchettFan]

The Constitution was written by people and enforced by people. God has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Which is not to say that The Bible didn't have something to do with it, The Bible being a very influential piece of literature at the time.

The new (at that time) line of thinking known as 'Liberalism' and the writings that accompanied it also contributed a LOT to our founding documents.

Agreed. Of course, the Bible was written by people and enforced by people as well. God has nothing to do with it either.

 

[PratchettFan]

Prove to me that God has EVER defended any rights and I'll accept that those rights were given by God.

Any and all rights that you think you have were given by to you by your fellow Monkeys.

Proof? Any and all rights a Monkey has are defended by Monkeys and Monkeys alone. When was the last time you saw the finger of God defending the rights of a weak Monkey against the will of strong?

If God was the source of rights, police and government would be irrelevant.

I used the term God to mean whatever your beliefs want it to. My point is the Constitution doesn't grant us Rights, it reaffirms Rights we already had.

No. It doesn't. It established a framework under which rights can be created. But those rights do not exist on their own. They exist only in the context of the community and only with the agreement of the community.