Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
If you or someone you loved had been harmed in the child abuse scandals, would this apology be enough for you to forgive?
Not me.
The Church needs to open all its records. Cooperate totally with law enforcement. Pay restitution to the victims and their families. Defrock all clergy who are guilty. End the practice of canonical trials for crimes forever.
And Ratzinger needs to resign.
If all that happned, I think mebbe I could forgive.
I'm a lapsed Catholic, RetiredGySgt. According to Ratzinger, they do.
The Rat won't let priests marry because he wants to keep the clergy 100% homosexual. I mean c'mon, look at the way the pope and his homies dress. Anyways, when god told adam "don't eat the hetero fruit or I'll kick you out of gay heaven", He proved his preference for men. Jesus also is always portrayed as a gay looking man...
I'm a lapsed Catholic, RetiredGySgt. According to Ratzinger, they do.
Ya right, the Pope is not even a Prophet. How can he be the leader of God's church on Earth if he can not even speak to or be answered by God?
Catholic Church is a hypocrite. They have billions of dollars in gold and artifacts and doing nothing with it except keep it for the Pope and religious leaders in the Vatican. Yet they will beg grandma for her last penny.
The organization that is the Catholic church care about one thing, the Organization.
Could Ratzinger aka Pope Benedict XVI ever apologize enough?
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/19/world/europe/19pope.html?_r=1&hp=&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1284836570-H7H/snXSmFbdWYl7BZfy8Q
I'm not sure the two are comparable, The Light. There is no Chief Muslim In Charge. Doubtless various Muslim religious leaders have condemned terrorism; in the case of the current pope, he's (alleged to be) a direct participant in conspiracies to abuse children in the care of the RCC.
Do you agree he should resign?
I would like to forgive, Aqua Athena. For the most part, I have. But if Ratzinger wants to reach out to folks like me, who've left, I'd need Justice.
That would take a sea change in RCC clergy culture that IMO has not happened. I think it is critical he resign because, by doing so, he could signal there are inescapable consequences for failing to stamp this evil out.
I'm not sure the two are comparable, The Light. There is no Chief Muslim In Charge. Doubtless various Muslim religious leaders have condemned terrorism; in the case of the current pope, he's (alleged to be) a direct participant in conspiracies to abuse children in the care of the RCC.
Do you agree he should resign?
No, there isn't one in charge in Islam and that is just how they have intended it to be so that no one knows who is who. That way, people swallow the whole fruitcake before they know what hit them.
As for the pope, I don't know enough to say that it should be one way or another but I do think that there should be an investigation if he is thought to be involved, and if he is found to be involved then he should resign and be punished accordingly.
Similarly, I think that there should be an investigation into the funds being raised for the Ground Zero Mosque.
I would like to forgive, Aqua Athena. For the most part, I have. But if Ratzinger wants to reach out to folks like me, who've left, I'd need Justice.
That would take a sea change in RCC clergy culture that IMO has not happened. I think it is critical he resign because, by doing so, he could signal there are inescapable consequences for failing to stamp this evil out.
I'm not convinced they aren't dealing with it appropriately now, Maddie. I am pretty tight in ecumenical circles that includes the RCC, and I haven't heard of any recent scandals in which a pedophile priest was just reassigned rather than removed. If they aren't then a pox on their house. I have quite a few Catholic friends who left the Church when they were sweeping the problem under the rug. I don't think they are doing that now.
As for forgiveness, I don't know that it is our prerogative to forgive harm done to another. We can only forgive that harm that is done to us.
Our Sunday School class has been studying and discussing a series on heaven for some weeks now, and this morning, among other things, was whether we thought we would know people in Heaven and who we wanted to see. Many were anxious to be reuinited with parents and other family members who have passed on.
I thought of my father who was a thoroughly selfish, corrupt, and physically and emotionally abusive person from whom I suffered much and whom I neither loved nor respected. He's gone now, but though I don't feel seething resentment or hatred for him, I can honestly say the idea of meeting up with HIM in heaven is not something I look forward to. Does that mean I have not forgiven? I don't know. I no longer hold him responsible for who and what I am. I think that is about as close to forgiveness as I will probably get in this lifetime.
I would like to forgive, Aqua Athena. For the most part, I have. But if Ratzinger wants to reach out to folks like me, who've left, I'd need Justice.
That would take a sea change in RCC clergy culture that IMO has not happened. I think it is critical he resign because, by doing so, he could signal there are inescapable consequences for failing to stamp this evil out.
I'm not convinced they aren't dealing with it appropriately now, Maddie. I am pretty tight in ecumenical circles that includes the RCC, and I haven't heard of any recent scandals in which a pedophile priest was just reassigned rather than removed. If they aren't then a pox on their house. I have quite a few Catholic friends who left the Church when they were sweeping the problem under the rug. I don't think they are doing that now.
As for forgiveness, I don't know that it is our prerogative to forgive harm done to another. We can only forgive that harm that is done to us.
Our Sunday School class has been studying and discussing a series on heaven for some weeks now, and this morning, among other things, was whether we thought we would know people in Heaven and who we wanted to see. Many were anxious to be reuinited with parents and other family members who have passed on.
I thought of my father who was a thoroughly selfish, corrupt, and physically and emotionally abusive person from whom I suffered much and whom I neither loved nor respected. He's gone now, but though I don't feel seething resentment or hatred for him, I can honestly say the idea of meeting up with HIM in heaven is not something I look forward to. Does that mean I have not forgiven? I don't know. I no longer hold him responsible for who and what I am. I think that is about as close to forgiveness as I will probably get in this lifetime.
Thankies for your willingness to share, foxfyre. That takes courage, I'm sure, and will doubtless bring peace to someone else reading it.
I dunno if I feel "personally harmed". I was raised in a Catholic orphanage and saw these abuses go on, but I was not the victim. I feel survivor guilt galore, and I have terrible memories....but I wouldn't ever compare my suffering to those driven to suicide, etc. by what happened.
And I don't believe it is over. I'll believe that when the RCC proves that the criminals have been purged from its ranks.
I'm a lapsed Catholic, RetiredGySgt. According to Ratzinger, they do.
Ya right, the Pope is not even a Prophet. How can he be the leader of God's church on Earth if he can not even speak to or be answered by God?
Catholic Church is a hypocrite. They have billions of dollars in gold and artifacts and doing nothing with it except keep it for the Pope and religious leaders in the Vatican. Yet they will beg grandma for her last penny.
The organization that is the Catholic church care about one thing, the Organization.
I dun wanna argue dogma with you, RetiredGySgt. There are many reasons I'm lapsed, and I'm not in any position to defend the RCC. I think you mistake my Op. I'm not looking to bash Catholics...I'm asking, what would it take to forgive?
If the victim had been you, could you ever forgive? If you could, what would it take to get you to that place?