Critique of Kath Hochul's housing plan.

[Andylusion]

https://www.governor.ny.gov/sites/default/files/2023-03/NY_Housing_Compact_info_deck_March_2023.pdf

So someone asked me what I thought of Kathy Hochel's housing plan, and I thought I'd give it a review.

So I’m a conservative, and my view of Democrats, and my view of New Yorkers, is basically below dirt.

Meaning my expectations that Kathy Hochul a New York Democrat, was that she would be a blithering idiot like AOC, and start saying stuff like she’s going to spend a tax cut… spending money not collected... on subways and teachers. (and yes AOC did say something that dumb). AOC has really lowered the bar of intelligence for New York Democrats.

But, I have to be totally honest, the proposal from Gov. Hochul does in fact have some intelligent points to be made.

For example on page 13 of their proposal they full admit that regulations and restrictive zoning laws, have driven up housing and rent prices. That's like a sacred cow of Democrats, and Hochul admitted it caused the problems they were having.

Now they have to mix in the stupid, and try tying in that somehow zoning laws causes global warming and racism…. which is AOC level stupid. But at least they actually admit that yes in fact our endless regulations and zoning laws and restrictions do drive up housing and rental prices.

Then they also admit that yes in fact allowing more housing to be built will in fact improve the entire market, and help everyone involved, from the richest to the poorest. Which is true, and shocking they admit this.

But the revelations continue, because they also admit that ‘throwing money at it’ does not work. They actually spent the time to review the “incentives” policies of California and other states, and found they didn’t fix the problem. Tossing money at problems, is not a solution, and never has been.

That is crazy that a Democrat admits their “we just need more money! Tax the rich will fix all!” answer to everything, doesn't work. That is next-level smart for a Democrat. So that was impressive.

See even people who are not conservative, and supposedly oppose conservative values, are eventually forced to admit we’re right. You can't look at the facts, and remove your partisan bigotry glasses, and not see that we're right.

So her proposal is to reduce zoning laws √

Allow mutli-purpose zones √

Allow basement apartments √

Allow office space to be used for apartments and the reverse √

Fast track for the approval process for construction and re-zoning √√

Allow property splits for higher density housing √

Allow more duplex and triplex housing √

Allow more townhouse construction √

(and by the way, yes New York was preventing the building of duplex and townhouses. Then you act shocked prices are high)

And they also want to reduce the ‘requirement of parking lot space’ that results in stores like Walmart being required to have an entire football field of parking lot that isn’t used, while all the cars are parked near the store. √

NOW THE DOWNSIDE.

No one gets everything perfect, and no Democrat policy would be complete without a little “let’s throw some money at it” aspect.

So she wants to also give millions of dollars in subsidies, to have old un-used buildings either demolished or renovated.

And the problem there is that the moment you throw money at it, wealthy rich people are going to find a way to get that money.

Not in favor of this at all. Say I’m a super rich guy. I have no intention of every using this building I own at all. None. You think I won’t take your money and renovate the building, so that my properties value goes up? Even if I never use it?

And additionally say I’m a rich guy and I’m already renovating the property. The moment I see this proposal, I call up all my contractors and stop all work. Then I wait and wait until this proposal is passed, and then I collect the subsidies, and have you pay for the renovations I was going to do anyway.

So, no, not in favor of the ‘throw money at it’ policies wrapped up in this proposal at all.

And lastly, this does not address the rent control laws.

Right now in NYC, there are an estimated one million empty apartments that are not even on the market, you can’t rent them at any price, because rent control makes them un-profitable to rent. So they are just are not available to rent.

And this is because of the rent control laws. Until those laws are repealed, no amount of other policies will fix this problem.

And rent prices will continue to climb higher and higher in NYC, because of rent control.

If you are a landlord, and right now you need to charge (I’m making up numbers to illustrate the point), let’s say you need to charge $1,500 for an apartment to make a profit. Do you charge $1,500 for the apartment? No.

Here’s why. The rent control laws limit your ability to raise prices to 5% a year. That means next year you can only charge $1,575. But what if your costs as the landlord increase 10%?

Well now you are losing money next year. Because you need to charge $1,650, but you can only charge $1,575. So you are losing money now.

So you need to charge as much as you possibly can this year, so that next year if your costs go up, you can still make a profit. So might try and rent it out for $1,700. Or even more. You don’t know how much your costs are going to go up. But you do know you’ll be limited to a 5% increase.

Rent control drives up prices. Always does. And if rent control makes renting the apartment unprofitable, then you don’t rent it.

Rent control is a MASSIVE problem in NYC and honestly anywhere it’s ever been put into law. Kochul doesn’t want to deal with the Elephant in the room, and this proposal won’t fix this problem.

Still… I will give her credit, this is in fact a conservative step in the right direction.

 

[excalibur]

The leftoids wet-dream is to destroy single-family zoning and build apartments for the "poor".

Of course, this will never happen in their neighborhoods.

 

[Andylusion]

The leftoids wet-dream is to destroy single-family zoning and build apartments for the "poor".

Of course, this will never happen in their neighborhoods.

That implies they are smart enough to be malicious. I just think they are dumb people.

 

[1srelluc]

The leftoids wet-dream is to destroy single-family zoning and build apartments for the "poor".

Of course, this will never happen in their neighborhoods.

The thing is, given the current cost of housing, the slag gopers are all for it too since there's money to be made for themselves or their friends.

In my AO they have never seen a flat lot that they won't approve a bunch of townhouses or duplexes being built on, smack in the middle of a older single family home neighborhood.

 

[protectionist]

https://www.governor.ny.gov/sites/default/files/2023-03/NY_Housing_Compact_info_deck_March_2023.pdf

So someone asked me what I thought of Kathy Hochel's housing plan, and I thought I'd give it a review.

So I’m a conservative, and my view of Democrats, and my view of New Yorkers, is basically below dirt.

Meaning my expectations that Kathy Hochul a New York Democrat, was that she would be a blithering idiot like AOC, and start saying stuff like she’s going to spend a tax cut… spending money not collected... on subways and teachers. (and yes AOC did say something that dumb). AOC has really lowered the bar of intelligence for New York Democrats.

But, I have to be totally honest, the proposal from Gov. Hochul does in fact have some intelligent points to be made.

For example on page 13 of their proposal they full admit that regulations and restrictive zoning laws, have driven up housing and rent prices. That's like a sacred cow of Democrats, and Hochul admitted it caused the problems they were having.

Now they have to mix in the stupid, and try tying in that somehow zoning laws causes global warming and racism…. which is AOC level stupid. But at least they actually admit that yes in fact our endless regulations and zoning laws and restrictions do drive up housing and rental prices.

Then they also admit that yes in fact allowing more housing to be built will in fact improve the entire market, and help everyone involved, from the richest to the poorest. Which is true, and shocking they admit this.

But the revelations continue, because they also admit that ‘throwing money at it’ does not work. They actually spent the time to review the “incentives” policies of California and other states, and found they didn’t fix the problem. Tossing money at problems, is not a solution, and never has been.

That is crazy that a Democrat admits their “we just need more money! Tax the rich will fix all!” answer to everything, doesn't work. That is next-level smart for a Democrat. So that was impressive.

See even people who are not conservative, and supposedly oppose conservative values, are eventually forced to admit we’re right. You can't look at the facts, and remove your partisan bigotry glasses, and not see that we're right.

So her proposal is to reduce zoning laws √

Allow mutli-purpose zones √

Allow basement apartments √

Allow office space to be used for apartments and the reverse √

Fast track for the approval process for construction and re-zoning √√

Allow property splits for higher density housing √

Allow more duplex and triplex housing √

Allow more townhouse construction √

(and by the way, yes New York was preventing the building of duplex and townhouses. Then you act shocked prices are high)

And they also want to reduce the ‘requirement of parking lot space’ that results in stores like Walmart being required to have an entire football field of parking lot that isn’t used, while all the cars are parked near the store. √

NOW THE DOWNSIDE.

No one gets everything perfect, and no Democrat policy would be complete without a little “let’s throw some money at it” aspect.

So she wants to also give millions of dollars in subsidies, to have old un-used buildings either demolished or renovated.

And the problem there is that the moment you throw money at it, wealthy rich people are going to find a way to get that money.

Not in favor of this at all. Say I’m a super rich guy. I have no intention of every using this building I own at all. None. You think I won’t take your money and renovate the building, so that my properties value goes up? Even if I never use it?

And additionally say I’m a rich guy and I’m already renovating the property. The moment I see this proposal, I call up all my contractors and stop all work. Then I wait and wait until this proposal is passed, and then I collect the subsidies, and have you pay for the renovations I was going to do anyway.

So, no, not in favor of the ‘throw money at it’ policies wrapped up in this proposal at all.

And lastly, this does not address the rent control laws.

Right now in NYC, there are an estimated one million empty apartments that are not even on the market, you can’t rent them at any price, because rent control makes them un-profitable to rent. So they are just are not available to rent.

And this is because of the rent control laws. Until those laws are repealed, no amount of other policies will fix this problem.

And rent prices will continue to climb higher and higher in NYC, because of rent control.

If you are a landlord, and right now you need to charge (I’m making up numbers to illustrate the point), let’s say you need to charge $1,500 for an apartment to make a profit. Do you charge $1,500 for the apartment? No.

Here’s why. The rent control laws limit your ability to raise prices to 5% a year. That means next year you can only charge $1,575. But what if your costs as the landlord increase 10%?

Well now you are losing money next year. Because you need to charge $1,650, but you can only charge $1,575. So you are losing money now.

So you need to charge as much as you possibly can this year, so that next year if your costs go up, you can still make a profit. So might try and rent it out for $1,700. Or even more. You don’t know how much your costs are going to go up. But you do know you’ll be limited to a 5% increase.

Rent control drives up prices. Always does. And if rent control makes renting the apartment unprofitable, then you don’t rent it.

Rent control is a MASSIVE problem in NYC and honestly anywhere it’s ever been put into law. Kochul doesn’t want to deal with the Elephant in the room, and this proposal won’t fix this problem.

Still… I will give her credit, this is in fact a conservative step in the right direction.

FALSE! Rent control does exactly the opposite of what you say. It keeps rents low, and that is what has done for NYC renters for many decades.

When people visit New York for the first time, they are astounded by how big it is (all 5 boroughs), and by the thousands of apartment buildings stretching for miles.

Even more impressive is that people have had a home in these apartments for their whole lives. Rent control is what made that possible.

 

[protectionist]

https://www.governor.ny.gov/sites/default/files/2023-03/NY_Housing_Compact_info_deck_March_2023.pdf

So someone asked me what I thought of Kathy Hochel's housing plan, and I thought I'd give it a review.

So I’m a conservative, and my view of Democrats, and my view of New Yorkers, is basically below dirt.

Meaning my expectations that Kathy Hochul a New York Democrat, was that she would be a blithering idiot like AOC, and start saying stuff like she’s going to spend a tax cut… spending money not collected... on subways and teachers. (and yes AOC did say something that dumb). AOC has really lowered the bar of intelligence for New York Democrats.

But, I have to be totally honest, the proposal from Gov. Hochul does in fact have some intelligent points to be made.

For example on page 13 of their proposal they full admit that regulations and restrictive zoning laws, have driven up housing and rent prices. That's like a sacred cow of Democrats, and Hochul admitted it caused the problems they were having.

Now they have to mix in the stupid, and try tying in that somehow zoning laws causes global warming and racism…. which is AOC level stupid. But at least they actually admit that yes in fact our endless regulations and zoning laws and restrictions do drive up housing and rental prices.

Then they also admit that yes in fact allowing more housing to be built will in fact improve the entire market, and help everyone involved, from the richest to the poorest. Which is true, and shocking they admit this.

But the revelations continue, because they also admit that ‘throwing money at it’ does not work. They actually spent the time to review the “incentives” policies of California and other states, and found they didn’t fix the problem. Tossing money at problems, is not a solution, and never has been.

That is crazy that a Democrat admits their “we just need more money! Tax the rich will fix all!” answer to everything, doesn't work. That is next-level smart for a Democrat. So that was impressive.

See even people who are not conservative, and supposedly oppose conservative values, are eventually forced to admit we’re right. You can't look at the facts, and remove your partisan bigotry glasses, and not see that we're right.

So her proposal is to reduce zoning laws √

Allow mutli-purpose zones √

Allow basement apartments √

Allow office space to be used for apartments and the reverse √

Fast track for the approval process for construction and re-zoning √√

Allow property splits for higher density housing √

Allow more duplex and triplex housing √

Allow more townhouse construction √

(and by the way, yes New York was preventing the building of duplex and townhouses. Then you act shocked prices are high)

And they also want to reduce the ‘requirement of parking lot space’ that results in stores like Walmart being required to have an entire football field of parking lot that isn’t used, while all the cars are parked near the store. √

NOW THE DOWNSIDE.

No one gets everything perfect, and no Democrat policy would be complete without a little “let’s throw some money at it” aspect.

So she wants to also give millions of dollars in subsidies, to have old un-used buildings either demolished or renovated.

And the problem there is that the moment you throw money at it, wealthy rich people are going to find a way to get that money.

Not in favor of this at all. Say I’m a super rich guy. I have no intention of every using this building I own at all. None. You think I won’t take your money and renovate the building, so that my properties value goes up? Even if I never use it?

And additionally say I’m a rich guy and I’m already renovating the property. The moment I see this proposal, I call up all my contractors and stop all work. Then I wait and wait until this proposal is passed, and then I collect the subsidies, and have you pay for the renovations I was going to do anyway.

So, no, not in favor of the ‘throw money at it’ policies wrapped up in this proposal at all.

And lastly, this does not address the rent control laws.

Right now in NYC, there are an estimated one million empty apartments that are not even on the market, you can’t rent them at any price, because rent control makes them un-profitable to rent. So they are just are not available to rent.

And this is because of the rent control laws. Until those laws are repealed, no amount of other policies will fix this problem.

And rent prices will continue to climb higher and higher in NYC, because of rent control.

If you are a landlord, and right now you need to charge (I’m making up numbers to illustrate the point), let’s say you need to charge $1,500 for an apartment to make a profit. Do you charge $1,500 for the apartment? No.

Here’s why. The rent control laws limit your ability to raise prices to 5% a year. That means next year you can only charge $1,575. But what if your costs as the landlord increase 10%?

Well now you are losing money next year. Because you need to charge $1,650, but you can only charge $1,575. So you are losing money now.

So you need to charge as much as you possibly can this year, so that next year if your costs go up, you can still make a profit. So might try and rent it out for $1,700. Or even more. You don’t know how much your costs are going to go up. But you do know you’ll be limited to a 5% increase.

Rent control drives up prices. Always does. And if rent control makes renting the apartment unprofitable, then you don’t rent it.

Rent control is a MASSIVE problem in NYC and honestly anywhere it’s ever been put into law. Kochul doesn’t want to deal with the Elephant in the room, and this proposal won’t fix this problem.

Still… I will give her credit, this is in fact a conservative step in the right direction.

PS - you talk too much.

And with all that talk, not one word about the help that rent control gives to us business owners. Without it, landlords are killing businesses every day.

 

[marvin martian]

https://www.governor.ny.gov/sites/default/files/2023-03/NY_Housing_Compact_info_deck_March_2023.pdf

So someone asked me what I thought of Kathy Hochel's housing plan, and I thought I'd give it a review.

So I’m a conservative, and my view of Democrats, and my view of New Yorkers, is basically below dirt.

Meaning my expectations that Kathy Hochul a New York Democrat, was that she would be a blithering idiot like AOC, and start saying stuff like she’s going to spend a tax cut… spending money not collected... on subways and teachers. (and yes AOC did say something that dumb). AOC has really lowered the bar of intelligence for New York Democrats.

But, I have to be totally honest, the proposal from Gov. Hochul does in fact have some intelligent points to be made.

For example on page 13 of their proposal they full admit that regulations and restrictive zoning laws, have driven up housing and rent prices. That's like a sacred cow of Democrats, and Hochul admitted it caused the problems they were having.

Now they have to mix in the stupid, and try tying in that somehow zoning laws causes global warming and racism…. which is AOC level stupid. But at least they actually admit that yes in fact our endless regulations and zoning laws and restrictions do drive up housing and rental prices.

Then they also admit that yes in fact allowing more housing to be built will in fact improve the entire market, and help everyone involved, from the richest to the poorest. Which is true, and shocking they admit this.

But the revelations continue, because they also admit that ‘throwing money at it’ does not work. They actually spent the time to review the “incentives” policies of California and other states, and found they didn’t fix the problem. Tossing money at problems, is not a solution, and never has been.

That is crazy that a Democrat admits their “we just need more money! Tax the rich will fix all!” answer to everything, doesn't work. That is next-level smart for a Democrat. So that was impressive.

See even people who are not conservative, and supposedly oppose conservative values, are eventually forced to admit we’re right. You can't look at the facts, and remove your partisan bigotry glasses, and not see that we're right.

So her proposal is to reduce zoning laws √

Allow mutli-purpose zones √

Allow basement apartments √

Allow office space to be used for apartments and the reverse √

Fast track for the approval process for construction and re-zoning √√

Allow property splits for higher density housing √

Allow more duplex and triplex housing √

Allow more townhouse construction √

(and by the way, yes New York was preventing the building of duplex and townhouses. Then you act shocked prices are high)

And they also want to reduce the ‘requirement of parking lot space’ that results in stores like Walmart being required to have an entire football field of parking lot that isn’t used, while all the cars are parked near the store. √

NOW THE DOWNSIDE.

No one gets everything perfect, and no Democrat policy would be complete without a little “let’s throw some money at it” aspect.

So she wants to also give millions of dollars in subsidies, to have old un-used buildings either demolished or renovated.

And the problem there is that the moment you throw money at it, wealthy rich people are going to find a way to get that money.

Not in favor of this at all. Say I’m a super rich guy. I have no intention of every using this building I own at all. None. You think I won’t take your money and renovate the building, so that my properties value goes up? Even if I never use it?

And additionally say I’m a rich guy and I’m already renovating the property. The moment I see this proposal, I call up all my contractors and stop all work. Then I wait and wait until this proposal is passed, and then I collect the subsidies, and have you pay for the renovations I was going to do anyway.

So, no, not in favor of the ‘throw money at it’ policies wrapped up in this proposal at all.

And lastly, this does not address the rent control laws.

Right now in NYC, there are an estimated one million empty apartments that are not even on the market, you can’t rent them at any price, because rent control makes them un-profitable to rent. So they are just are not available to rent.

And this is because of the rent control laws. Until those laws are repealed, no amount of other policies will fix this problem.

And rent prices will continue to climb higher and higher in NYC, because of rent control.

If you are a landlord, and right now you need to charge (I’m making up numbers to illustrate the point), let’s say you need to charge $1,500 for an apartment to make a profit. Do you charge $1,500 for the apartment? No.

Here’s why. The rent control laws limit your ability to raise prices to 5% a year. That means next year you can only charge $1,575. But what if your costs as the landlord increase 10%?

Well now you are losing money next year. Because you need to charge $1,650, but you can only charge $1,575. So you are losing money now.

So you need to charge as much as you possibly can this year, so that next year if your costs go up, you can still make a profit. So might try and rent it out for $1,700. Or even more. You don’t know how much your costs are going to go up. But you do know you’ll be limited to a 5% increase.

Rent control drives up prices. Always does. And if rent control makes renting the apartment unprofitable, then you don’t rent it.

Rent control is a MASSIVE problem in NYC and honestly anywhere it’s ever been put into law. Kochul doesn’t want to deal with the Elephant in the room, and this proposal won’t fix this problem.

Still… I will give her credit, this is in fact a conservative step in the right direction.

New Yorkers deserve what they vote for.

Fuck 'em.

 

[protectionist]

New Yorkers deserve what they vote for.

Fuck 'em.

Rent control is the one (business-friendly) good thing they support in a sea of woke, leftist lunacy, and you saps can't figure that out. Sheeesh!

 

[Andylusion]

PS - you talk too much.

And with all that talk, not one word about the help that rent control gives to us business owners. Without it, landlords are killing businesses every day.

Landlords are business owners.

 

[Andylusion]

New Yorkers deserve what they vote for.

Fuck 'em.

There is a large part of my being... that kind agrees with you. I almost don't want California to fix their problems. I feel terrible, yet... slightly happy... to see California burn. That's awful. I shouldn't be this way... yet I still smile when I see bad news from there.

 

[Andylusion]

FALSE! Rent control does exactly the opposite of what you say. It keeps rents low, and that is what has done for NYC renters for many decades.

When people visit New York for the first time, they are astounded by how big it is (all 5 boroughs), and by the thousands of apartment buildings stretching for miles.

Even more impressive is that people have had a home in these apartments for their whole lives. Rent control is what made that possible.

So let's go back to the data...

Tens of Thousands of Rent-Stabilized Apartments Remain Off the Market During Record Housing Shortage

Landlords kept an estimated 26,000 regulated units offline last year — rekindling a debate about the role of New York’s strict rent laws.

www.thecity.nyc

Using figures reported directly by landlords to the state, THE CITY counted about 61,000 vacant apartments in 2021. The city housing agency, counting both apartments listed as “available” and “unavailable” for rent, said the number of potential vacancies was even higher, at nearly 89,000.

So, once again, the city itself is saying there is a problem. Tell me sir, with over 89,000 empty apartments, how does that help small business owners who don't have 89,000 customers thanks to your rent control?

 

[Foxfyre]

FALSE! Rent control does exactly the opposite of what you say. It keeps rents low, and that is what has done for NYC renters for many decades.

When people visit New York for the first time, they are astounded by how big it is (all 5 boroughs), and by the thousands of apartment buildings stretching for miles.

Even more impressive is that people have had a home in these apartments for their whole lives. Rent control is what made that possible.

Rent controls also contribute to good apartment buildings falling into disrepair and perhaps becoming slums, discourages new construction of new housing units, and long term escalated housing costs. That is pretty much the same kind of effect that all artificial price controls create.

The best price control is free market competition.

 

[protectionist]

Landlords are business owners.

.0001% of them.

 

[protectionist]

So let's go back to the data...

Tens of Thousands of Rent-Stabilized Apartments Remain Off the Market During Record Housing Shortage

Landlords kept an estimated 26,000 regulated units offline last year — rekindling a debate about the role of New York’s strict rent laws.

www.thecity.nyc

Using figures reported directly by landlords to the state, THE CITY counted about 61,000 vacant apartments in 2021. The city housing agency, counting both apartments listed as “available” and “unavailable” for rent, said the number of potential vacancies was even higher, at nearly 89,000.

So, once again, the city itself is saying there is a problem. Tell me sir, with over 89,000 empty apartments, how does that help small business owners who don't have 89,000 customers thanks to your rent control?

You are DUPED by the data smoke. The way to overcome it - look around you.

 

[protectionist]

Rent controls also contribute to good apartment buildings falling into disrepair and perhaps becoming slums, discourages new construction of new housing units, and long term escalated housing costs. That is pretty much the same kind of effect that all artificial price controls create.

The best price control is free market competition.

What you just stated is a highky exaggerated MYTH, and the one of the most easily refutable ideas in existence (as I have already done repeatedly in this thread). It is the standard BS line tossed out byy landlords.

The reason why so many people like you are hoodwinked, is because the landlords have lots of money to perpetrate this fraud (true but only in very small pockets),and renters don't have money to put their words out. Also, they have to fear being evicted, if the publicly oppose landlords, so for the most part, they keep quiet.

 

[BackAgain]

Lol

Me and da guv are really tiiiiiiiiiiight.

I get to call her “Kath.”

 

[Andylusion]

You are DUPED by the data smoke. The way to overcome it - look around you.

View attachment 937927

View attachment 937930

Prove conclusively, that every single apartment in those pictures is rented?

 

[protectionist]

Prove conclusively, that every single apartment in those pictures is rented?

No need to. For those of us who have lived in New York, we know the buildings. We've lived in them, driven past them, visited friends living in them. Thousands of healthy rent control buildings, occupied for DECADES. Ho hum.

You sound like someone who hasn't even been in New York, and doesn't know a thing about it. Maybe you're one of those absentee landlords, living in the Virgin Islands or the Bahamas.

 

[Andylusion]

No need to. For those of us who have lived in New York, we know the buildings. We've lived in them, driven past them, visited friends living in them. Thousands of healthy rent control buildings, occupied for DECADES. Ho hum.

You sound like someone who hasn't even been in New York, and doesn't know a thing about it. Maybe you're one of those absentee landlords, living in the Virgin Islands or the Bahamas.

So, again, prove conclusively that every single apartment in those pictures is rented?
I don't see any data or proof of your claim.
So try real evidence. Like say.... data from the NYC housing authority.

Something better than "I'm a mindless internet troll that posts unsupportable claims, and that's all the evidence a dumb person needs!"