De-Valuing a College Degree...Good Policy?

[DGS49]

Gov. Josh Shapiro signs order eliminating 4-year degree requirement for thousands of Pennsylvania jobs

HARRISBURG — Trying to deliver on a 2022 campaign promise, Gov. Josh Shapiro signed an executive order Wednesday designed to encourage more people...

www.post-gazette.com

So Pennsylvania's new Governor has initiated a program to look more closely at the qualifications traditionally required for State jobs, with the intent of eliminating the requirement for a college degree where it is not actually necessary.

One might cynically suppose that the reason for the initiative is to make it possible for state agencies to hire more "unqualified" women and POC's to fill out their quotas in that regard.

But isn't there a quantifiable value to having a degree - any degree at all? Doesn't it merit at least a leg up, to show that you had the initiative and perseverence to complete a four-year program to learn something, even if it is not related to a particular job? Will this initiative give cover to HS grads who are simply too lazy to go to college to tell their parents, "Hey, that college degree dream of your generation is now obsolete. More than 90% of State jobs don't require a degree."

I have mixed feelings on the subject because I went to work for the Feds (DoD) without a degree (based on a PACE test score and being a Vet), and faced real discrimination in the workplace until I got my degree (at night, followed by a law degree). Surely, there are a lot of jobs everywhere that have traditionally required a degree where that requirement has not been based on any real demands of the job. Any halfway literate, intelligent person could do it.

How would you feel if you got a job some years ago based on having a degree that you worked hard for, only to see this change, which in effect retroactively makes your degree worthless?

And I know this sort of thinking is positively pre-historic, but if a degree requirement is being erased, shouldn't they implement an intelligence and general knowledge test in its place - which was, in effect, what the PACE test did for the Feds?

Is this a good idea, in either the public or the private sector?

 

[ReinyDays]

How much have the colleges themselves de-valued a college degree? ... colleges take just about anyone in, make money, and spit them back out ... whether the students deserve a degree or not ...

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

Gov. Josh Shapiro signs order eliminating 4-year degree requirement for thousands of Pennsylvania jobs

HARRISBURG — Trying to deliver on a 2022 campaign promise, Gov. Josh Shapiro signed an executive order Wednesday designed to encourage more people...

www.post-gazette.com

So Pennsylvania's new Governor has initiated a program to look more closely at the qualifications traditionally required for State jobs, with the intent of eliminating the requirement for a college degree where it is not actually necessary.

One might cynically suppose that the reason for the initiative is to make it possible for state agencies to hire more "unqualified" women and POC's to fill out their quotas in that regard.

But isn't there a quantifiable value to having a degree - any degree at all? Doesn't it merit at least a leg up, to show that you had the initiative and perseverence to complete a four-year program to learn something, even if it is not related to a particular job? Will this initiative give cover to HS grads who are simply too lazy to go to college to tell their parents, "Hey, that college degree dream of your generation is now obsolete. More than 90% of State jobs don't require a degree."

I have mixed feelings on the subject because I went to work for the Feds (DoD) without a degree (based on a PACE test score and being a Vet), and faced real discrimination in the workplace until I got my degree (at night, followed by a law degree). Surely, there are a lot of jobs everywhere that have traditionally required a degree where that requirement has not been based on any real demands of the job. Any halfway literate, intelligent person could do it.

How would you feel if you got a job some years ago based on having a degree that you worked hard for, only to see this change, which in effect retroactively makes your degree worthless?

And I know this sort of thinking is positively pre-historic, but if a degree requirement is being erased, shouldn't they implement an intelligence and general knowledge test in its place - which was, in effect, what the PACE test did for the Feds?

Is this a good idea, in either the public or the private sector?

Education itself is overrated....relying on so-called smart people to educate you and tell you what is right and wrong is basically Marxism....


As long as what you feel is right, that is all that matters.....and you don't need no fancy books or some elitist Jew professor to say otherwise...that's all globalism...

 

[occupied]

Every college and university turned into a diploma mill and diminished the real value of a degree. I read somewhere that most degree holders are not even working in the area for which they were educated. Meanwhile there is a heavy demand for qualified people in the trades. It's a faster education that absolutely counts towards your job. It's also skills you can take from the old job to a new job. This is not necessarily the case in a suit and tie office job.

 

[martybegan]

Every college and university turned into a diploma mill and diminished the real value of a degree. I read somewhere that most degree holders are not even working in the area for which they were educated. Meanwhile there is a heavy demand for qualified people in the trades. It's a faster education that absolutely counts towards your job. It's also skills you can take from the old job to a new job. This is not necessarily the case in a suit and tie office job.

Some degrees more than others. You still want someone with an Engineering degree to do engineering work, someone with an accounting degree to do accounting. Many of the others though?

The old concept of a liberal arts education was to broaden the mind of the degree holder, to make them a more whole person. Inquisitive, learned, able to look up things and understand them via an education in classical learning. Similar but much less rigid than the old Confucian academics as bureaucrats system in China.

Today left wing orthodoxy has stifled mind broadening, minute specialization has led to degrees only valuable to teach said specialization, and massive bloating of college administrations has led to degrees not being worth the cost.

 

[rightwinger]

Gov. Josh Shapiro signs order eliminating 4-year degree requirement for thousands of Pennsylvania jobs

HARRISBURG — Trying to deliver on a 2022 campaign promise, Gov. Josh Shapiro signed an executive order Wednesday designed to encourage more people...

www.post-gazette.com

So Pennsylvania's new Governor has initiated a program to look more closely at the qualifications traditionally required for State jobs, with the intent of eliminating the requirement for a college degree where it is not actually necessary.

One might cynically suppose that the reason for the initiative is to make it possible for state agencies to hire more "unqualified" women and POC's to fill out their quotas in that regard.

But isn't there a quantifiable value to having a degree - any degree at all? Doesn't it merit at least a leg up, to show that you had the initiative and perseverence to complete a four-year program to learn something, even if it is not related to a particular job? Will this initiative give cover to HS grads who are simply too lazy to go to college to tell their parents, "Hey, that college degree dream of your generation is now obsolete. More than 90% of State jobs don't require a degree."

I have mixed feelings on the subject because I went to work for the Feds (DoD) without a degree (based on a PACE test score and being a Vet), and faced real discrimination in the workplace until I got my degree (at night, followed by a law degree). Surely, there are a lot of jobs everywhere that have traditionally required a degree where that requirement has not been based on any real demands of the job. Any halfway literate, intelligent person could do it.

How would you feel if you got a job some years ago based on having a degree that you worked hard for, only to see this change, which in effect retroactively makes your degree worthless?

And I know this sort of thinking is positively pre-historic, but if a degree requirement is being erased, shouldn't they implement an intelligence and general knowledge test in its place - which was, in effect, what the PACE test did for the Feds?

Is this a good idea, in either the public or the private sector?

In concept, I agree with the Governor

Not all jobs require a degree and life experience may be just as valuable. Many military have received training that qualifies, running a small business may qualify, working in the field may qualify.

Many of these positions require good writing skills, basic math, good people skills. A degree might not be essential.

 

[rightwinger]

How much have the colleges themselves de-valued a college degree? ... colleges take just about anyone in, make money, and spit them back out ... whether the students deserve a degree or not ...

Many students still flunk out. It is not as easy as you claim

 

[ReinyDays]

Many students still flunk out. It is not as easy as you claim

The fewer students who flunk out, the better the profit margins ...

Do you really consider algebra college-level math? ... writing how'bout we hard skip English classes because is you know ... then where would we are? ...

 

[rightwinger]

Do you really consider algebra college-level math? ... writing how'bout we hard skip English classes because is you know ... then where would we are? .

No, but few white collar jobs require higher math skills than algebra

When I graduated 8th Grade, I was a prolific reader and had good writing skills and vocabulary. I also had a working knowledge of Algebra.

I think I would have been able to do most White Collar jobs as long as I received job specific training.

 

[luiza]

No, but few white collar jobs require higher math skills than algebra

When I graduated 8th Grade, I was a prolific reader and had good writing skills and vocabulary. I also had a working knowledge of Algebra.

I think I would have been able to do most White Collar jobs as long as I received job specific training.

Much better .

English and interesting .

 

[ReinyDays]

No, but few white collar jobs require higher math skills than algebra

When I graduated 8th Grade, I was a prolific reader and had good writing skills and vocabulary. I also had a working knowledge of Algebra.

I think I would have been able to do most White Collar jobs as long as I received job specific training.

You seem to miss what a college degree means ... it means the person knows something about all subjects, and a lot in one subject ... if a job requires someone to write Englishing at the college level, they need to go to college and learn ... and it's hard, not all will pass ... if a job requires using calculus, then the person needs to go to college as well ...

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

You seem to miss what a college degree means ... it means the person knows something about all subjects, and a lot in one subject ... if a job requires someone to write Englishing at the college level, they need to go to college and learn ... and it's hard, not all will pass ... if a job requires using calculus, then the person needs to go to college as well ...

Seriously?

 

[DGS49]

A few thoughts:

The progression of "higher education" is as follows: A Bachelor's degree means that you know quite a bit about a general area of inquiry. A Master's degress means that you know a whole lot about a specific area of inquiry. A doctorate means that you know just about everything about a very tiny, specific area of inquiry. Post-doc means that you know everything there is to know about nothing at all.

If "we" wanted to do it, we could test a gazillion people with all levels of formal education from grade-school dropout to those with Professional degrees, and create a general profile, that would associate a range of scores for each level of academic education. For example, a score of 86 is equivalent to three years of undergraduate education, but short of a degree, and so forth. Then the test could be used by employers and by schools to place people where they belong, so to speak. The scope of the test could, in effect, replace the high school GED. But it would give "smart" people a credential that they could bring to an employer and say, "I have no formal education, but I am a B.S. equivalent." Certainly, any employer could test for specific skills and knowledge that a job requires.

Everyone reading this knows in advance that such a test could never come to exist in our world, because POC's would do terribly on the test, and charges of implicit bias would kill it in utero.

 

[rightwinger]

You seem to miss what a college degree means ... it means the person knows something about all subjects, and a lot in one subject ... if a job requires someone to write Englishing at the college level, they need to go to college and learn ... and it's hard, not all will pass ... if a job requires using calculus, then the person needs to go to college as well ...

Most jobs do not require Calculus
I spent 40 years as an Engineer and never needed it.

Yes, many jobs require a College degree……Surgeon is one of them.

Not all jobs do. Most of what you learn in your occupation occurs once you are on the job.

 

[Quasar44]

Shapiro lol

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

A few thoughts:

The progression of "higher education" is as follows: A Bachelor's degree means that you know quite a bit about a general area of inquiry. A Master's degress means that you know a whole lot about a specific area of inquiry. A doctorate means that you know just about everything about a very tiny, specific area of inquiry. Post-doc means that you know everything there is to know about nothing at all.

If "we" wanted to do it, we could test a gazillion people with all levels of formal education from grade-school dropout to those with Professional degrees, and create a general profile, that would associate a range of scores for each level of academic education. For example, a score of 86 is equivalent to three years of undergraduate education, but short of a degree, and so forth. Then the test could be used by employers and by schools to place people where they belong, so to speak. The scope of the test could, in effect, replace the high school GED. But it would give "smart" people a credential that they could bring to an employer and say, "I have no formal education, but I am a B.S. equivalent." Certainly, any employer could test for specific skills and knowledge that a job requires.

Everyone reading this knows in advance that such a test could never come to exist in our world, because POC's would do terribly on the test, and charges of implicit bias would kill it in utero.

Yes, sounds like a great idea who know nothing about education. I think some personal bias is evident ere. Let us guess you education level, I would say it was a high school diploma but a few college courses at best. You don't show the motivation to get a college degree, hence your bias to wards those who you think are less smart than you, but hold a paper saying they are.

What do do about people who do not test well? My daughter had to take remedial math in college, despite crushing it in high school, simply because she did poorly on the college assessment test. . She aced the course and the proceeded to make good grades the next two years in her math classes. On the other hand, my SAT and ACT scores were so high, I started without the intro course and then onward to engineering and computer science classes.

 

[ReinyDays]

Most jobs do not require Calculus
I spent 40 years as an Engineer and never needed it.

What kind of engineer doesn't use gravity? ... or stress? ... or water pressure? ...

Page 25 of my Freshman Physics textbook requires a basic understanding of calculus ... how did you become an engineer without this college class? ... or did your liberal arts college not require any science classes? ...

 

[rightwinger]

What kind of engineer doesn't use gravity? ... or stress? ... or water pressure? ...

Page 25 of my Freshman Physics textbook requires a basic understanding of calculus ... how did you become an engineer without this college class? ... or did your liberal arts college not require any science classes? ...

I took advanced Calculus to graduate.
Never needed it once I was working.
I worked for the Army testing radio networks and computer systems.

I think for most Engineers, College Calculus and Differential Equations acts as a screen to weed out those who can’t do it.
Much like Organic Chemistry weeds out Pre-Med students

 

[ReinyDays]

I took advanced Calculus to graduate.
Never needed it once I was working.
I worked for the Army testing radio networks and computer systems.

I think for most Engineers, College Calculus and Differential Equations acts as a screen to weed out those who can’t do it.
Much like Organic Chemistry weeds out Pre-Med students

You didn't answer my question ... do you never use gravity in anything you engineer? ... gravity is defined using calculus ... G = m dv/dt ... we have to use calculus when we deal with fluid pressure ... stress is a second-order tensor, that requires differential geometry ...

The PE doesn't ask these questions? ...

 

[rightwinger]

You didn't answer my question ... do you never use gravity in anything you engineer? ... gravity is defined using calculus ... G = m dv/dt ... we have to use calculus when we deal with fluid pressure ... stress is a second-order tensor, that requires differential geometry ...

The PE doesn't ask these questions? ...

No