Developing Flint news

[eagle1462010]

Detroit black mailed their asses.................Both cities Bankrupt...........2 broke dick cities robbing each other and both are broke................Raised the rates 5 Million a year to keep Detroit Water for the 2 years to rob the money from Flint.............

Had the water treatment plant had a QUALIFIED CHEMIST to treat the water this never would have seen the light of day even using the Flint River.....................

Typical political football.................Dems playing everyone else is at fault......

 

[saveliberty]

So firing the Fire Chief and Police Chief is going to fix the water problem? Why did she not fire the Water department chief?

Flint water supervisor warned state of problems before switch to river

Flint water supervisor warned state of problems before switch to river

The state did not make them switch, the Flint City Council voted to do it 7-1.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Ok.............so they are firing people............whoop de fucking do..............

They still have to replace the pipes.........who's paying for it.........Who's got the Billion plus to do so.................

Old assed pipes where leaching lead before this happened..........just like cities all over the country already..........

Does fiscal conservatism kill? And do conservatives of the callous set care?

 

[eagle1462010]

Ok.............so they are firing people............whoop de fucking do..............

They still have to replace the pipes.........who's paying for it.........Who's got the Billion plus to do so.................

Old assed pipes where leaching lead before this happened..........just like cities all over the country already..........

Does fiscal conservatism kill? And do conservatives of the callous set care?

Fiscal conservatism didn't kill Flint...............improper treatment of water and blackmail by the Detroit Water Authority killed...............

 

[Wry Catcher]

So firing the Fire Chief and Police Chief is going to fix the water problem? Why did she not fire the Water department chief?

Flint water supervisor warned state of problems before switch to river

Flint water supervisor warned state of problems before switch to river

The state did not make them switch, the Flint City Council voted to do it 7-1.

Half-truths are lies. Don't ya know?

 

[Wry Catcher]

A link taken from TIME on line:

Flint water switch approved despite DEQ health warnings a year earlier

 

[Wry Catcher]

Ok.............so they are firing people............whoop de fucking do..............

They still have to replace the pipes.........who's paying for it.........Who's got the Billion plus to do so.................

Old assed pipes where leaching lead before this happened..........just like cities all over the country already..........

Does fiscal conservatism kill? And do conservatives of the callous set care?

Fiscal conservatism didn't kill Flint...............improper treatment of water and blackmail by the Detroit Water Authority killed...............

Evidence? Do some study, read my link above and then consider my questions. The fact is fiscal conservatives are not fiscally responsible, and that is the major transition necessary but not sufficient to solve are political and economic problems.

 

[eagle1462010]

Hillary Clinton Can’t Blame Michigan Gov For Flint’s Water

Between a River and a Hard Place
This is where most of the media get it wrong. Usually the story goes that the city began using the Flint River because it was cheaper than using Detroit’s water. It sounds like the emergency manager or governor just decided to use the river water. But that misses a step.

The Flint River was not the first choice.
The Flint River was not the first choice. The emergency manager did meet with representatives from the state treasury and they talked about the river as a possible water source, but also of joining a brand-new water authority called the Karagondi Water Authority. In April 2014, the EM, with symbolic approval from the Flint City Council, moved to join this new body, which would draw water from Lake Huron. The pipeline was being built, and was slated to go online in 2016.

The day after the City Council vote, Detroit Water said it would end its contract with Flint in one year. This meant the city had to figure out what to do for water in that intervening year. Michigan Radio says Detroit didn’t cut Flint off, and that is somewhat correct, but it is also a bit odd that the day after a decision has been made to join a new water authority Detroit would conveniently tell Flint its contract ended not in 2016, but in 2015 when the pipeline would not yet be finished.

Now, at this point, Flint should have worked harder to secure a better deal with Detroit. But the fact remains that Flint was put in a tough spot. This is when they made the fateful decision to use Flint River water. The Flint River wasn’t the first choice, it was the backup choice.

Was this a good decision? Probably not. Anyone who lived in Flint knew the river was suspect because the auto plants had probably leached chemicals into the river. But it is important to know the city made this decision when a better option appeared closed.

 

[bullwinkle]

Detroit black mailed their asses.................Both cities Bankrupt...........2 broke dick cities robbing each other and both are broke................Raised the rates 5 Million a year to keep Detroit Water for the 2 years to rob the money from Flint.............

Had the water treatment plant had a QUALIFIED CHEMIST to treat the water this never would have seen the light of day even using the Flint River.....................

Typical political football.................Dems playing everyone else is at fault......

Eagle, This may help clarify some of your confusion about the water treatment manager. Also you should be aware that while the City council voted 7-1 to approve the switch, that vote is well known to be a symbolic one of a powerless group. That doesn't excuse them, actually shows them to be castrated wimps, but they really never had a choice either. Read this: Official's email says shift to Flint River made too quickly

 

[Wry Catcher]

Hillary Clinton Can’t Blame Michigan Gov For Flint’s Water

Between a River and a Hard Place
This is where most of the media get it wrong. Usually the story goes that the city began using the Flint River because it was cheaper than using Detroit’s water. It sounds like the emergency manager or governor just decided to use the river water. But that misses a step.

The Flint River was not the first choice.
The Flint River was not the first choice. The emergency manager did meet with representatives from the state treasury and they talked about the river as a possible water source, but also of joining a brand-new water authority called the Karagondi Water Authority. In April 2014, the EM, with symbolic approval from the Flint City Council, moved to join this new body, which would draw water from Lake Huron. The pipeline was being built, and was slated to go online in 2016.

The day after the City Council vote, Detroit Water said it would end its contract with Flint in one year. This meant the city had to figure out what to do for water in that intervening year. Michigan Radio says Detroit didn’t cut Flint off, and that is somewhat correct, but it is also a bit odd that the day after a decision has been made to join a new water authority Detroit would conveniently tell Flint its contract ended not in 2016, but in 2015 when the pipeline would not yet be finished.

Now, at this point, Flint should have worked harder to secure a better deal with Detroit. But the fact remains that Flint was put in a tough spot. This is when they made the fateful decision to use Flint River water. The Flint River wasn’t the first choice, it was the backup choice.

Was this a good decision? Probably not. Anyone who lived in Flint knew the river was suspect because the auto plants had probably leached chemicals into the river. But it is important to know the city made this decision when a better option appeared closed.

It seems the EM made the decision, since the CC vote was "symbolic". Knowing, from the link I provided that all decision makers knew or should have known about the risk, it become incumbent on the Executive to act.

The question is easily answered on where the buck stopped, if one looks at the issue objectively.

One thing we can be certain about, had his happened to the residents of Oakland County, MI, and not Genesee County, MI this would not have happened.

 

[eagle1462010]

The real tragedy in Flint

The Kiss-Off
The very next day Detroit’s water and sewer board notified Flint that it was exercising its right to terminate Flint’s 50-year-old contract in one year. Two years before their new source would be completed.

Why did Detroit do this? Because they were pissed off and thought, apparently, it would a nice F-U with which to send off their largest water customer.

Flint, realizing it was high and dry, needed to find an interim water source to keep things going until the new system was up. They hired a consulting firm, which looked at several options. One of them was to continue with Detroit, and there were negotiations over interim rates. The only news report of that process simply says “negotiations broke down.” Which tells me that Detroit wasn’t offering enough K-Y for what they were asking Flint to take when it bent over.

The study concluded that the best bet was to draw from the Flint River.

The Flint River, where the water gets drawn from, isn’t terribly “polluted.” As Michigan rivers go, it’s fairly typical. A little industrial pollution, but a ton of silt and agricultural runoff – it’s draining more than 1,300 square miles, most of it farmland. But it’s water that’s very treatable with modern treatment technology. And it’s always been the backup source.

The final decision to use the Flint River as an interim source rather than Detroit appears to have been made by the EFM (at this time, Darnell Earley. He claims the decision was made by the state; former Mayor Walling says it was made by Earley). Earley note at the time that it would save Flint $12 million over the two years of the contract. Not much of a bargain in hindsight, but nobody had foreknowledge of the screw-up and cover-up to come.

So Flint’s water department is asked to start treating its own water – something it hasn’t done regularly in at least 40 years, if ever. The water guys told the mayor and Council and Earley, “sure, we can do that.”

 

[eagle1462010]

Detroit black mailed their asses.................Both cities Bankrupt...........2 broke dick cities robbing each other and both are broke................Raised the rates 5 Million a year to keep Detroit Water for the 2 years to rob the money from Flint.............

Had the water treatment plant had a QUALIFIED CHEMIST to treat the water this never would have seen the light of day even using the Flint River.....................

Typical political football.................Dems playing everyone else is at fault......

Eagle, This may help clarify some of your confusion about the water treatment manager. Also you should be aware that while the City council voted 7-1 to approve the switch, that vote is well known to be a symbolic one of a powerless group. That doesn't excuse them, actually shows them to be castrated wimps, but they really never had a choice either. Read this: Official's email says shift to Flint River made too quickly

Addressed in another thread.................they needed some KY to accept Detroit's offer.............

Water softener from the Incompetence of the Treatment Plant's employees and managers.

 

[Wry Catcher]

"The final decision to use the Flint River as an interim source rather than Detroit appears to have been made by the EFM (at this time, Darnell Earley. He claims the decision was made by the state; former Mayor Walling says it was made by Earley). Earley note at the time that it would save Flint $12 million over the two years of the contract. Not much of a bargain in hindsight, but nobody had foreknowledge of the screw-up and cover-up to come".

Once again, The Governor of a State has a duty to protect its residents. The buck stopped on the desk of the Governor.

 

[eagle1462010]

"The final decision to use the Flint River as an interim source rather than Detroit appears to have been made by the EFM (at this time, Darnell Earley. He claims the decision was made by the state; former Mayor Walling says it was made by Earley). Earley note at the time that it would save Flint $12 million over the two years of the contract. Not much of a bargain in hindsight, but nobody had foreknowledge of the screw-up and cover-up to come".

Once again, The Governor of a State has a duty to protect its residents. The buck stopped on the desk of the Governor.

The water authority there said they could properly treat the water.
Your decision makes no account to the blatant black mail by Detroit.
The Cover up involved all in the process.

And you only want one head because you play politics with it.

 

[eagle1462010]

ASCE | 2013 Report Card for America's Infrastructure

Nearly 170,000 public drinking water systems are located across the United States. Of these, 54,000 are community water systems that collectively serve more than 264 million people.

It is estimated that more than one million miles of water mains are in place in the United States. The conditions of many of these pipes are unknown, as they are buried underground out of sight, and owned and operated by various local entities. Some pipes date back to the Civil War era and often are not examined until there is a problem or a water main break. These breaks are becoming more common, as there are an estimated 240,000 water main breaks per year in the United States.

The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) estimates that approximately 4,000 to 5,000 miles of drinking water mains are replaced annually. The annual replacement rate is projected to peak around 2035 at 16,000 to 20,000 miles of aging pipe replaced each year. Meanwhile, pipes installed during the middle of the 20th century are likely to begin to fail in large numbers.

 

[Wry Catcher]

"The final decision to use the Flint River as an interim source rather than Detroit appears to have been made by the EFM (at this time, Darnell Earley. He claims the decision was made by the state; former Mayor Walling says it was made by Earley). Earley note at the time that it would save Flint $12 million over the two years of the contract. Not much of a bargain in hindsight, but nobody had foreknowledge of the screw-up and cover-up to come".

Once again, The Governor of a State has a duty to protect its residents. The buck stopped on the desk of the Governor.

The water authority there said they could properly treat the water.
Your decision makes no account to the blatant black mail by Detroit.
The Cover up involved all in the process.

And you only want one head because you play politics with it.

Wrong, but not unexpected. There are a number of individuals to blame, but only one responsible. The issue is not the decision as much as the hesitation to act decisively when the issue of harm to The People is first raised.

It is the fiscal conservative ideology which kills!

Fiscally responsible decisions prevent the kind of law suits sure to be filed, and prevent the medial costs which may last for half a century or more, do to the harm done to children who consumed the water. Penny wise and pound foolish is not leadership, it demagoguery by charlatans.

 

[eagle1462010]

ASCE | 2013 Report Card for America's Infrastructure

In 2012, the American Water Works Association (AWWA) concluded that the aggregate replacement value for more than one million miles of pipes was approximately $2.1 trillion if all pipes were to be replaced at once. Since not all pipes need to be replaced immediately, it is estimated that the most urgent investments could be spread over 25 years at a cost of approximately $1 trillion.

“The need will double from roughly $13 billion a year today to almost $30 billion (in 2010 dollars) annually by the 2040s, and the cost will be met primarily through higher water bills and local fees.

“Delaying the investment can result in degrading water service, increasing water service disruptions, and increasing expenditures for emergency repairs. Ultimately we will have to face the need to ‘catch up’ with past deferred investments, and the more we delay the harder the job will be when the day of reckoning comes.”

By 2050, the aggregate investment needs would total more than $1.7 trillion, according to the AWWA.

 

[eagle1462010]

"The final decision to use the Flint River as an interim source rather than Detroit appears to have been made by the EFM (at this time, Darnell Earley. He claims the decision was made by the state; former Mayor Walling says it was made by Earley). Earley note at the time that it would save Flint $12 million over the two years of the contract. Not much of a bargain in hindsight, but nobody had foreknowledge of the screw-up and cover-up to come".

Once again, The Governor of a State has a duty to protect its residents. The buck stopped on the desk of the Governor.

The water authority there said they could properly treat the water.
Your decision makes no account to the blatant black mail by Detroit.
The Cover up involved all in the process.

And you only want one head because you play politics with it.

Wrong, but not unexpected. There are a number of individuals to blame, but only one responsible. The issue is not the decision as much as the hesitation to act decisively when the issue of harm to The People is first raised.

It is the fiscal conservative ideology which kills!

Fiscally responsible decisions prevent the kind of law suits sure to be filed, and prevent the medial costs which may last for half a century or more, do to the harm done to children who consumed the water. Penny wise and pound foolish is not leadership, it demagoguery by charlatans.

I have stated a lot of heads need to role and some have already fallen over this. I have said on other threads that the Governor needs to go as well after seeing the statements of EM's after they knew the problem was ongoing............

They all stalled, including the EPA when they full well knew that the water had been mistreated.........and that the Treatment Plant was in violation of EPA regulations to treat for corrosion................

Your one sided BS is just politics.................as usual..............You refuse to throw the other ones under the bus who had more to do with this than others..................Primarily the Treatment Plant incompetence.................then later the attempt to cover it up on all levels........

 

[Wry Catcher]

ASCE | 2013 Report Card for America's Infrastructure

Nearly 170,000 public drinking water systems are located across the United States. Of these, 54,000 are community water systems that collectively serve more than 264 million people.

It is estimated that more than one million miles of water mains are in place in the United States. The conditions of many of these pipes are unknown, as they are buried underground out of sight, and owned and operated by various local entities. Some pipes date back to the Civil War era and often are not examined until there is a problem or a water main break. These breaks are becoming more common, as there are an estimated 240,000 water main breaks per year in the United States.

The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) estimates that approximately 4,000 to 5,000 miles of drinking water mains are replaced annually. The annual replacement rate is projected to peak around 2035 at 16,000 to 20,000 miles of aging pipe replaced each year. Meanwhile, pipes installed during the middle of the 20th century are likely to begin to fail in large numbers.

And, .....?

Q. What is the solution you see to what is a serious problem

A. My answer is for the Congress to act and to create a "Marshall Plan", to renew, replace, repair our aging infrastructure. It will create long term jobs and will bolster our economy, especially if contracts are directed to American businesses and industries, and grades 13 & 14 are added to our public education focused on the skills necessary for such an effort.

 

[bullwinkle]

ASCE | 2013 Report Card for America's Infrastructure

Nearly 170,000 public drinking water systems are located across the United States. Of these, 54,000 are community water systems that collectively serve more than 264 million people.

It is estimated that more than one million miles of water mains are in place in the United States. The conditions of many of these pipes are unknown, as they are buried underground out of sight, and owned and operated by various local entities. Some pipes date back to the Civil War era and often are not examined until there is a problem or a water main break. These breaks are becoming more common, as there are an estimated 240,000 water main breaks per year in the United States.

The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) estimates that approximately 4,000 to 5,000 miles of drinking water mains are replaced annually. The annual replacement rate is projected to peak around 2035 at 16,000 to 20,000 miles of aging pipe replaced each year. Meanwhile, pipes installed during the middle of the 20th century are likely to begin to fail in large numbers.

And, .....?

Q. What is the solution you see to what is a serious problem

A. My answer is for the Congress to act and to create a "Marshall Plan", to renew, replace, repair our aging infrastructure. It will create long term jobs and will bolster our economy, especially if contracts are directed to American businesses and industries, and grades 13 & 14 are added to our public education focused on the skills necessary for such an effort.

My suggestion for funding your suggested "Marshall Plan" (which I completely agree is a great idea) is to take all SuperPAC monies and combine them into re-structuring the nation's foundations. Considering how much these PACs are hauling in, there would probably be enough left over to run a Canadian-type election of shorter election campaigns and more network airtime donations. IOW, we could do this if we really want to, IF we could get together and just DO IT!