Dissecting John Stossel's Anti-Communist Lies

[Unkotare]

I was born way before the 1990s, so you only reveal your ignorance when you speak that way. You would've been in a much worse situation if you would've lived in colonial, feudal China before it became socialist. Under capitalist British rule, the standard of living of most Chinese was even worse than it was in the 1990s.

Trying to change the subject = fail

 

[ozro]

Your land and home is more secure under American communism than it is now under capitalism.

Do not test the security of my land. Just some courtesy advice.

 

[toobfreak]

I started well and will finish well. How about that?

Dude, you need to meet up with Anton Chigurh and his cattle bolt.

 

[Red Front]

I witnessed firsthand the mindless irrationality and brutality of that anti-human, failed ideology. Go experience something of the world for yourself before shooting your ignorant mouth off about things you don't understand.

I understand it much better than you ever will. Socialism made China a superpower and in the not-too-distant future, you're going to wish you were back in China with your people. Karl Marx wrote that socialism is the process that leads to communism. A socialist state and society can identify itself as communist because communism is the objective. Communism is defined by Marx, as a stateless society, without socioeconomic classes or the need for money. There has really never been an actual communist state. The very term "communist state" is an oxymoron. What exists are socialist states.

Socialism according to Marx can include markets in the consumer goods sector of the economy. That's exactly what we see in China today. The economy is centrally planned hence it is socialist, despite its use of markets. So don't make the silly error of pretending markets equate capitalism because they don't. Markets existed before capitalism and can in some cases be part of a socialist economy. I prefer socialist economies without markets, but that's just an ideological preference, not a dogmatic principle that anyone has to agree with. China is a superpower thanks to socialism. Think about that for a while.

 

[fncceo]

Here's the huge difference between Capitalism and Communism.

Capitalism occurs naturally and Communism must be imposed.

Capitalism started the day a cave person figured out he could trade his extra flint with another cave person who had extra bear grease.

Both parties found the trade beneficial and quickly figured out that if they invested their effort gathering efficiently gathering one commodity, they could trade it for everything else they traded.

In every Communist society on Earth to date, from Russia to North Korea, a "black market" occurs naturally when the inefficiencies of the planned economy inevitably leads to scarcity. Communist officials often encourage (albeit covertly) black market Capitalism as a stop-gap against the failures Communist methodology.

The example that Capitalism replaced Feudalism and will eventually be replaced by Communism is just wrong for a couple of reasons. First, Capitalism existed under Feudalism. A merchant class (able to own and trade property) has existed in every organized society since the dawn of time. Capitalism spread from the merchant and ruling classes to the general population when serfdom was abolished and everyone was allowed to own and sell property.

Second, Communism is just a return to Feudalism. The right to buy and sell property will be taken away from common citizens (the new serfs) but remain with "the state". The state being made up from the elite cadre (the new lords) who will continue to receive the benefits of Capitalism via their covert merchant class (the black market).

 

[Unkotare]

I understand it much better than you ever will. ....

Wrong again, kid. You have admitted you have no experience in the real world to support your idiotic "theories." I have advised you to go out into the real world. Up to you to do it or not.

 

[Red Front]

Do not test the security of my land. Just some courtesy advice.

In an American socialist state, your home/s and land/s are better secured because if you currently own them you don't have to pay taxes for them and if the bank/s currently own them, the likelihood of you going into foreclosure is much less when the banks are nationalized. American communists of the communist front are also pro-second amendment and that includes combat rifles and access to ammunition.

 

[Unkotare]

... in the not-too-distant future, you're going to wish you were back in China with your people.....

"My people"? What people do you imagine that to be?

 

[Unkotare]

.... Karl Marx wrote that....

Marx was a fool, and every one of his predictions failed. Go read another book.

 

[fncceo]

Socialism made China a superpower

Actually, Capitalism did that ...

China transitioned from an agrarian society always one harvest away from mass starvation, to an industrial nation by providing cheap labor to Capitalist societies. Eventually, those Chinese who were able to benefit from that arrangement were able to participate in the nascent Chinese Capitalist society.

 

[Unkotare]

... China is a superpower thanks to socialism. Think about that for a while.

China only began to grow economically when they started to move AWAY from communism. The further they moved away, the more they prospered. Go ask Deng Xiaoping about it and stop reading Marx. That shit is rotting your brain.

 

[ozro]

In an American socialist state, your home/s and land/s are better secured because if you currently own them you don't have to pay taxes for them and if the bank/s currently own them, the likelihood of you going into foreclosure is much less when the banks are nationalized. American communists of the communist front are also pro-second amendment and that includes combat rifles and access to ammunition.

I don't know what you think you are going on about. Just don't cross my fence. I'm not on the way to anywhere, have over a quarter section fenced, and one must make an effort to get here.
I advise you to make an effort to stay the fuck away.

 

[ReinyDays]

That's how it should be. Electricity is a vital part of our national infrastructure that everyone needs to function in a modern society. It's a product that everyone consumes. The money we pay the utility companies should be deposited in the public treasury and used for healthcare, education, paving our roads, building and maintaining our bridges..etc. I would rather send my money to my government, a government that in principle and in practice must serve my interests and hold elections every few years, than a private for-profit company owned by one billionaire or a small group of wealthy investors.

I agree except I think the utility company should only charge to maintain that specific utility ... let the other utilities fund their own maintenance ...

Hard for me to say ... we have wind power just gutting everything ... wholesale rates are down so tree-trimmers are everyplace ...

 

[Red Front]

Here's the huge difference between Capitalism and Communism.

Capitalism occurs naturally and Communism must be imposed.

Capitalism started the day a cave person figured out he could trade his extra flint with another cave person who had extra bear grease.

Both parties found the trade beneficial and quickly figured out that if they invested their effort gathering efficiently gathering one commodity, they could trade it for everything else they traded.

In every Communist society on Earth to date, from Russia to North Korea, a "black market" occurs naturally when the inefficiencies of the planned economy inevitably leads to scarcity. Communist officials often encourage (albeit covertly) black market Capitalism as a stop-gap against the failures Communist methodology.

The example that Capitalism replaced Feudalism and will eventually be replaced by Communism is just wrong for a couple of reasons. First, Capitalism existed under Feudalism. A merchant class (able to own and trade property) has existed in every organized society since the dawn of time. Capitalism spread from the merchant and ruling classes to the general population when serfdom was abolished and everyone was allowed to own and sell property.

Second, Communism is just a return to Feudalism. The right to buy and sell property will be taken away from common citizens (the new serfs) but remain with "the state". The state being made up from the elite cadre (the new lords) who will continue to receive the benefits of Capitalism via their covert merchant class (the black market).

As a communist, I'm not against the type of market exchange that you just described provided it doesn't involve the exploitation of human labor. Markets don't equate capitalism, because they existed way before the first capitalist ever purchased the life of a human laborer for twelve or sixteen hours to operate his machines and produce products for a profit. You're confusing bartering and use value exchange with capitalism, which is a completely different relationship.

In the not too distant future technology will render capitalism obsolete and unworkable, due to the fact that without human labor the capitalist market collapses. All value in capitalism relies on human wage labor.

NO WAGE LABOR = NO PAYING CONSUMER = NO CAPITALISTS GENERATING A PROFIT.​

We are going to have to adopt a mode of production that isn't based on the pursuit of profits or capital accumulation. Within the next few decades, robotics, automated systems, artificial intelligence, self-driving autonomous vehicles, and a few other technologies will significantly replace human labor, hence it will become necessary for the public to take control of the technology and produce everything to meet their needs, rather than for a profit. The two options for those who live in the modern, industrialized world are techno-feudalism or high-communism (i.e. high-tech communism). The former will reduce the public to useless, worthless serfs and eventually to the compost heap. The later will empower the consumer by rendering the means of production theirs. It democratizes and socializes production.

​

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The Russian communists, beat the US and 14 other countries in 1918 when it was invaded by 8000 US Marines, and then it beat Nazi Germany.

And now it can't even beat Ukraine.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I would hardly describe socialism as getting its butt kicked in the 20th century. The Russian communists, beat the US and 14 other countries in 1918 when it was invaded by 8000 US Marines, and then it beat Nazi Germany. The Korean war ended without a clear victory for the US. Vietnam, we all know how that ended. Socialist principles were implemented in Russia by Putin in 2000, creating a mixed economy, which saved it from economic collapse. Socialism today is more popular than ever and with the advent of advanced automation, robotics, artificial intelligence, self-driving cars..etc, communism will become a necessity in the not-too-distant future. The only alternative is techno-feudalism, which no one in their right mind prefers.

The Korean war ended without a clear victory for the US.

Have you seen those pictures of Korea at night?

Communism is making North Korea more awesome every day.

 

[whitehall]

Who is doing the dissecting, a communist? So much bullshit at a time when we need to focus on the republican win in congress.

 

[fncceo]

One of Marx's worst principles (besides the glorification of class hatred), and one that is still taught in economic schools across the world, is "The Labor Theory of Value".

Under this completely disprovable theory, the value of any item is equivalent to the work that went into making it. For example, a drainage ditch and a Da Vinci painting would be of equal value if they both took the same amount of effort to create.

Anyone who has ever bought anything knows full well that there is only one factor that ultimately determines the value of an object and that is what someone, anyone, is willing to give for it. In a Communist society (and many times in politically-motivated Capitalist societies) attempts are made to fix the value of an object and dictate by law the value of an object. Those efforts always lead to scarcity of that object. Set the price too low and there is no incentive for the producers of that item to make more. Set the price too high, and no one will be willing to pay, and the incentive to produce also disappears.

Communist societies have attempted to further interfere in market forces by setting mandatory production quotas. But, any quotas not set by the market will inevitably lead to scarcity. For example, a shoe factory. In order to meet the needs of the people, the manager of that factory is told to produce 30,000 pairs of show each year or ... else.

In order to avoid, or else, the manager will produce as many shoes as possible in the same size and style (for efficiency sake) using those materials he can obtain. The idea that he must produce shoes that people are interested in buying doesn't enter into the production decisions. His success (or failure) is based not on how many of his shoes are sold, but on how many shoes he produces.

In a Capitalist society, production goals aren't important to a company's value, or the value of their products. Take, for example, a Ferrari factory. Ferrari produces only about 8,000 automobiles a year (out of about 50 MILLION cars produced globally). But, each one of those hand-crafted beauties is sold the minute it leaves the factory. The value of the end product is the value on which Ferrari is measured, not the number of vehicles they produce.

 

[Rambunctious]

How does their voting Blue change any of that? It doesn't change state law, it doesn't change the Supreme Court, it doesn't change the Constitution, and in nearly all cases, most anyone can still get an abortion if they want to anyway, and with the loss of the House, they won't be able to change any laws! Plus they are now still likely to get deluged by all of the massive real problems already plaguing their lives.

I didn't say they were smart... they all watch MSM....

 

[Unkotare]

The Korean war ended without a clear victory for the US.

Have you seen those pictures of Korea at night?

Communism is making North Korea more awesome every day.

The difference between North and South Korea could not be more stark. The dopey OP should go visit both then try to sell his bullshit here again.