United States Imperialism

[Tom Paine 1949]

It was never "taken over", the fanatics of Al-Qaeda and ISIL were simply taking advantage of the situation and were rejected by all others (as well as being driven out of Iraq). Especially by the SDF, who would fight them as fanatically as they fought against Assad's forces. AQ in Syria were never anything other than opportunists that tried to exploit it for their own gain and were rejected by both sides.

That is why the Islamic State only holds about 1% of the territory in Syria, in a small area in central Syria. As far away from the Kurdish controlled regions as they can get as if given a choice the Kurds will actually attack them over the Assad forces.

That is why the AQ-ISIL forces only hold a small area outside of Palmyra. They do not dare try to go into the areas held by any of the other groups because they all detest them passionately. The only nominal "Sunni forces" of consequence in the conflict is Tahrir al-Sham, based in NW Syria. And they are not anything even close to "fanatics", and have even ejected or killed any members who attempted to work with Al-Qaeda. But they are also one of the smallest groups fighting in the conflict, and their only ally of note is Turkey.

I honestly think in cases like this some people should use scorecards so they can keep all of the various groups separate. All too often I see people trying to lump multiple groups together, and that is always a failure.

Please! You show us a map of the situation today, but we are talking of a situation before the war in Syria was essentially won by Assad, with crucial support from Russia and Iran. You must know that Al-Qaeda - ISIL was not by any means the only Sunni fanatic group operating in wide and even densely populated parts of Syria. In fact, the U.S. still has troops there in the oil producing desert areas, controlling key roads between Iraq and Syria. They should be pulled out now!

Even Biden at the time admitted that some of the forces we were aiding were really Islamic nuts. The American CIA and the Pentagon were actually arming different Sunni groups that were killing each other, and it was widely reported in the Western press that — with the exception of the Kurds — the “democratic forces” we were aiding were often complete fakers who soon defected to the religious fanatic groups we opposed.

 

[Deadstick]

It was never "taken over", the fanatics of Al-Qaeda and ISIL were simply taking advantage of the situation and were rejected by all others (as well as being driven out of Iraq). Especially by the SDF, who would fight them as fanatically as they fought against Assad's forces. AQ in Syria were never anything other than opportunists that tried to exploit it for their own gain and were rejected by both sides.

That is why the Islamic State only holds about 1% of the territory in Syria, in a small area in central Syria. As far away from the Kurdish controlled regions as they can get as if given a choice the Kurds will actually attack them over the Assad forces.

That is why the AQ-ISIL forces only hold a small area outside of Palmyra. They do not dare try to go into the areas held by any of the other groups because they all detest them passionately. The only nominal "Sunni forces" of consequence in the conflict is Tahrir al-Sham, based in NW Syria. And they are not anything even close to "fanatics", and have even ejected or killed any members who attempted to work with Al-Qaeda. But they are also one of the smallest groups fighting in the conflict, and their only ally of note is Turkey.

I honestly think in cases like this some people should use scorecards so they can keep all of the various groups separate. All too often I see people trying to lump multiple groups together, and that is always a failure.

I have told you it isn't just Al Qaeda who rebranded themselves as Al Nusra, it's a whole bunch of different Islamist head hackers, in Idlib province there is HTS who rule the area, mistake the Syrians and Russians made after the liberation of Aleppo they allowed the terrorists to leave for Idlib province instead of finishing the scumbags off, they are still there to this day helped by the Turks, although the Russians and Syrians attack them all the time, it will end when Idlib province is liberated and the Turks put back on a leash.

 

[Deadstick]

Please! You show us a map of the situation today, but we are talking of a situation before the war in Syria was essentially won by Assad, with crucial support from Russia and Iran. You must know that Al-Qaeda - ISIL was not by any means the only Sunni fanatic group operating in wide and even densely populated parts of Syria. In fact, the U.S. still has troops there in the oil producing desert areas, controlling key roads between Iraq and Syria. They should be pulled out now!

Even Biden at the time admitted that some of the forces we were aiding were really Islamic nuts. The American CIA and the Pentagon were actually arming different Sunni groups that were killing each other, and it was widely reported in the Western press that — with the exception of the Kurds — the “democratic forces” we were aiding were often complete fakers who soon defected to the religious fanatic groups we opposed.

You are spot on with that analysis.

 

[surada]

No they didn't, many fled because the collective west financed and supported an army of Islamist madmen who get a kick out of hacking peoples heads off, the US have used these maniac guns for hire from Bosnia to Syria and beyond, you people really are slow to catch on.

Don't you know anything about Syria? Bashar al-Assad is a puppet completely at the mercy of his brother Mehr al-Assad who is as sadistic and ruthless as Hafez. Look at their history.. Bashar was sedated for his 2012 interview with Barbara Walters. He said he didn't do it..that it was the government.

 

[irosie91]

7 million Syrians fled Syria because Mehr Assad dropped 40,000 barrel bombs on them. Syria has had secular strife and assassinations since 1950.

^^^^ this version of history may change now that Saudi Arabia and Iran are
kissing cousins. For a preview---go to a shiite mosque---friday morn,
LOL @ "secular strife"

 

[Mushroom]

LOL @ "secular strife"

Which is somewhat accurate. But only somewhat.

Like much of the region at the time, Syria was pretty secular when the nation was created. However, like many others it invaded Israel and lost, and soon the monarchy was overthrown by a military coup. Actually the first instance in the Middle East where the monarch was overthrown.

That was followed by what I jokingly called "The Year of the Three Colonels", not unlike the "Year of the Four Caesars" in Rome in 69 CE when in a single year four different Emperors held the Roman throne. But this time it was one Colonel after another taking control.

But after three leaders in 1949, it was under a single ruler until another coup in 1954 when an attempt was made to restore the Republic. But by that time Ba'athism and Pan-Arabism was on the rise and the nation quickly fell to infighting once again. With Ba'athists, Syrian Nationalists, Druze, and Nasserism each had groups fighting for dominance in the new government. Then after signing an arms deal with the Soviet Union, they started to gain more and more influence. Then in 1958 joining Egypt as part of the United Arab Republic.

The UAR lasted until 1961 when there was another coup, once again led by military leaders that removed Syria from the UAR and established Ba'athist rule. After that you had another five years of various internal coups and counter-coups by various Ba'athist factions until the Minister of Defense Hafez al-Assad took power in yet another coup and his family has held the power in Syria ever since.

But it seems that ever since Syria invaded Israel and lost, they had nothing but coup after coup, with an occasional return to a republic before yet another coup overturned the government yet again. But it was only marginally "secular", as even though most of them were never based upon religion they were primarily backed by various versions of Socialist-Marxist Pan-Arab movements. In much the way the Russian Civil War could have been called "Secular" as there were over a dozen different Communist-Marxist-Anarchist groups fighting amongst themselves, with the occasional White Russian forces.

 

[surada]

Please! You show us a map of the situation today, but we are talking of a situation before the war in Syria was essentially won by Assad, with crucial support from Russia and Iran. You must know that Al-Qaeda - ISIL was not by any means the only Sunni fanatic group operating in wide and even densely populated parts of Syria. In fact, the U.S. still has troops there in the oil producing desert areas, controlling key roads between Iraq and Syria. They should be pulled out now!

Even Biden at the time admitted that some of the forces we were aiding were really Islamic nuts. The American CIA and the Pentagon were actually arming different Sunni groups that were killing each other, and it was widely reported in the Western press that — with the exception of the Kurds — the “democratic forces” we were aiding were often complete fakers who soon defected to the religious fanatic groups we opposed.

ISIS is not Al Qaeda.

Syrian oil production peaked in 1994. They are an importer of oil. They don't have much oil and the quality is the poorest in the world.

 

[irosie91]

ISIS is not Al Qaeda.

Syrian oil production peaked in 1994. They are an importer of oil. They don't have much oil and the quality is the poorest in the world.

So? six of one and half dozen of the other----the donkey is not an elephant

 

[Mushroom]

ISIS is not Al Qaeda.

Syrian oil production peaked in 1994. They are an importer of oil. They don't have much oil and the quality is the poorest in the world.

Exactly. ISIS is now Al-Qaeda, it never was. It originates in al-Zarqawi, who formed his first group in 1999. And it had multiple names, it seems like every six months he was renaming it to something else. But in 2004 he "swore allegiance" to al-Qaeda, and claimed to be their presence in Iraq. But here is the thing, they never were. OBL detested the organization and everything it stood for, and spoke out often and loudly at their usurping the name of his organization and using it to push an agenda that was in complete opposition to what OBL believed.

No matter what can be said about the man, he was a real believer in an Islamic based Pan-Arab kind of movement. Where the differences between the various sects should not matter. The group formed by al-Zarqawi was a clear anti-Shia movement, and that was something the founder of al-Qaeda detested.

I do not joke when I say a lot of the people who try to sound off on things like really should use a scorecard so they can keep all of the various organizations separate. And stop lumping them all together as if they were the same thing.

And I would not say it is true the "quality if the poorest in the world", but that can come fairly close to what the majority of their oil actually is.

For those that do not know, crude oil is generally broken into two major categories. "Light Sweet Crude" is what is used to make most fuels, especially gasoline, and many other forms used in combustion. The other variety is normally called "Sour Heavy Crude". And this is also highly important, because this is often used in making diesel, lubricants, plastics, and a great many other things. And the majority of oil produces in Syria is of the "Sour Heavy" variety. They still produce and export a lot of it, but that is not the variety that is used to make fuel. And yes, it can be done but the refining is expensive and the output low so it is rarely done. So yes, they are indeed an importer of light sweet crude, as they do not have enough in their own wells to supply their demands for fuel production. And they are also an importer of refined oil products, as their refining capability is outright crap compared to their own internal demand.

Part of their deal with Russia for around two decades has been to sell them crude oil, then buy back refined oil. And that has been an increasing problem for them the last couple of years as Russia has been exporting very little refined oil to Syria because of their own problems.

 

[Mushroom]

So? six of one and half dozen of the other----the donkey is not an elephant

Actually, knowing and understanding the various groups is critically important. And it has always frustrated me when people seem proud of their complete ignorance and try to claim they are all the same.

 

[irosie91]

Actually, knowing and understanding the various groups is critically important. And it has always frustrated me when people seem proud of their complete ignorance and try to claim they are all the same.

wrong again----from the standpoint of UMMAH vs the world ----it is STILL ----six of one and half dozen of the other. The Shiite/Sunni divide is a very internal issue

 

[irosie91]

wrong again----from the standpoint of UMMAH vs the world ----it is STILL ----six of one and half dozen of the other. The Shiite/Sunni divide is a very internal issue

Mushroom disagrees----You're out of touch, fungus. Those stories of shiite/sunni strife are western/zionist propaganda

 

[Mushroom]

Mushroom disagrees----You're out of touch, fungus. Those stories of shiite/sunni strife are western/zionist propaganda

Thank you, for showing that all you are full of is propaganda.

As I often say, the only thing that all propaganda has is that it is almost always bad. And the only thing they can do to refute it is to claim anything that does not comply with what they say is simply propaganda.

 

[irosie91]

Thank you, for showing that all you are full of is propaganda.

As I often say, the only thing that all propaganda has is that it is almost always bad. And the only thing they can do to refute it is to claim anything that does not comply with what they say is simply propaganda.

I am full of what Propaganda? Who is "they" ? Can you cite the "propaganda" I have posted and what you imagine is its source? -----try hard. I will be happy to tell
you my "source"

 

[irosie91]

Thank you, for showing that all you are full of is propaganda.

As I often say, the only thing that all propaganda has is that it is almost always bad. And the only thing they can do to refute it is to claim anything that does not comply with what they say is simply propaganda.

For the record---the statement I posted ---approx. ---'the
sunni/shiite divide is western/zionist propaganda' IS,
ABSOLUTELY, propaganda. to wit---low level islamic
grammar school propaganda

 

[Mushroom]

For the record---the statement I posted ---approx. ---'the
sunni/shiite divide is western/zionist propaganda' IS,
ABSOLUTELY, propaganda. to wit---low level islamic
grammar school propaganda

Yet, you used that as your argument. I find it funny that you first asked me what propaganda you used, then you admit it was propaganda.

Thank you for making my point for me.

And it's kinda hard to point to the source of your propaganda, when you yourself do not cite it. Maybe next time if you cite the source of your propaganda, I can tell you what it was. But it was your claim and propaganda, don't ask me for your sources.

And I get enough of that kind of stuff from Press.TV, SANA, WAFA, and a dozen other "information" sources I visit on a regular basis.

 

[irosie91]

Yet, you used that as your argument. I find it funny that you first asked me what propaganda you used, then you admit it was propaganda.

Thank you for making my point for me.

And it's kinda hard to point to the source of your propaganda, when you yourself do not cite it. Maybe next time if you cite the source of your propaganda, I can tell you what it was. But it was your claim and propaganda, don't ask me for your sources.

And I get enough of that kind of stuff from Press.TV, SANA, WAFA, and a dozen other "information" sources I visit on a regular basis.

ok ---MY SOURCES I have worked with muslims as colleagues, mostly from southeast Asia but also from various north african nations for starting more than
50 years ago.
I get the "propaganda" from them. The most intense
propaganda seems to be that which they got in grammar
school----back "home" ----mostly sunnis----but some shiites. Over the years the idea that -"the shiites and sunnis are friends"----seemed to me to have developed
sometime in the 1990s.----but that idea came to me from first from a Pakistani-----who also lauded what at that time were called "the taliban"---the people who were creating
UTOPIA in Afghanistan

 

[Mushroom]

I get the "propaganda" from them. The most intense

And you repeated it as your claim.

You can not realistically be upset because you actually posted what you know is propaganda, and then get butthurt because you were called on doing so.

That is as tacky as most of the posts by our resident Nazi, or spams mindless propaganda and distorted claims endlessly.

 

[irosie91]

And you repeated it as your claim.

You can not realistically be upset because you actually posted what you know is propaganda, and then get butthurt because you were called on doing so.

That is as tacky as most of the posts by our resident Nazi, or spams mindless propaganda and distorted claims endlessly.

wrong again----I posted that which is the current islamic partyline---which---according to the background YOU CLAIM----you should know. I did not post it as FACT --which is why I called it PROPAGANDA

 

[DudleySmith]

Mushroom disagrees----You're out of touch, fungus. Those stories of shiite/sunni strife are western/zionist propaganda

It's still a heavily tribal culture; just follow the tribal and clan politics, and ignore the ideological rubbish.