Equity vs Equal Opportunity

What statements do you believe are most true? (Multiple answers allowed)

  • Equal opportunity means everyone can try.

  • Equal opportunity means everyone has the same opportunity.

  • Equity means everyone achieves according to effort, ability, work ethic.

  • Equity means everyone ends up in the same place.

  • None of the above and I will explain why in my post.


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Foxfyre

Eternal optimist
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Oct 11, 2007
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Setting aside the campaign and election for a moment, let's look at what Kamala's goal of equity for all could mean for all Americans and most likely non citizens as well.

Kamala says we should of course have equality, but more importantly we should have equity. We don't all start out in the same place, i.e. some start on first base and some start on third base, but we should all wind up in the same place. She has made that point several times now. And she looks to government to make it happen whether it is achieved via tax codes or various other legislation or disaster relief distribution.

NOTE: please focus on the policy and not what you think of Kamala personally.

So what does that mean? Should we all be held on first base? Or all advance to third base before anybody is allowed to go for home?

Elon Musk says, perhaps jokingly or perhaps not, that he wants to be the world's first trillionaire. The vast majority of us will never be able to claim millionaire status let alone billionaire or trillionaire. Is it wrong that Elon Musk is the richest man in the world? Is it wrong that nine of the ten richest people on the planet are Americans? That a large majority of millionaires in the world are American?

Is that because Americans are more greedy, more ruthless? Or it is something in the American concept of personal liberty, protected rights, equal opportunity for all coupled with regulated capitalism and free trade that allows Americans to be more wealthy than most other people on Earth?

But equity for all, by Kamala's definition, means some must become much richer and others must become much poorer. Everyone should have the same income, expenses, housing, transportation etc. regardless of their knowhow, expertise, contribution to society as a whole, aptitude, attitude, work ethic etc.

I have my own ideas about what that would actually look like and why it would make us all much worse off than we are now. Obviously we all cannot build and sell Teslas but theoretically, equity would mean that the one who does will not profit more than the guy who just works at whatever when he feels like it.

So where are you in this debate? Do you agree that fairness requires equity for all, i.e. we all wind up in the same place on the economic scale? Or do you go with the concept that some will earn/deserve/merit more than others? Or are you somewhere in the middle?

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Equity is based upon radical left stereotyping and prejudice.
The radical left stereotyping is that every White person is privileged, and every Minority is unprivileged.
If that were true, then there would not be any rich Minorities or poor White people.
 
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Setting aside the campaign and election for a moment, let's look at what Kamala's goal of equity for all could mean for all Americans and most likely non citizens as well.

Kamala says we should of course have equality, but more importantly we should have equity. We don't all start out in the same place, i.e. some start on first base and some start on third base, but we should all wind up in the same place. She has made that point several times now. And she looks to government to make it happen whether it is achieved via tax codes or various other legislation or disaster relief distribution.

NOTE: please focus on the policy and not what you think of Kamala personally.

So what does that mean? Should we all be held on first base? Or all advance to third base before anybody is allowed to go for home?

Elon Musk says, perhaps jokingly or perhaps not, that he wants to be the world's first trillionaire. The vast majority of us will never be able to claim millionaire status let alone billionaire or trillionaire. Is it wrong that Elon Musk is the richest man in the world? Is it wrong that nine of the ten richest people on the planet are Americans? That a large majority of millionaires in the world are American?

Is that because Americans are more greedy, more ruthless? Or it is something in the American concept of equal opportunity for all coupled with regulated capitalism and free trade that allows Americans to be more wealthy than most other people on Earth?

But equity for all, by Kamala's definition, means some must become much richer and others must become much poorer. Everyone should have the same income, expenses, housing, transportation etc. regardless of their knowhow, expertise, contribution to society as a whole, aptitude, attitude, work ethic etc.

I have my own ideas about what that would actually look like and why it would make us all much worse off than we are now. Obviously we all cannot build and sell Teslas but theoretically, equity would mean that the one who does will not profit more than the guy who just works when he feels like it.

So where are you in this debate? Do you agree that fairness requires equity for all, i.e. we all wind up in the same place on the economic scale? Or do you go with the concept that some will earn/deserve/merit more than others? Or are you somewhere in the middle?

View attachment 1020968
we don't make much of this sowell inspired nonsense.
all are equal under the law (except the 1 guy who is immune from our laws for reasons that you would have to explain.)

"equity " is a legal term very close in meaning to "justice."
 
we don't make much of this sowell inspired nonsense.
all are equal under the law (except the 1 guy who is immune from our laws for reasons that you would have to explain.)

"equity " is a legal term very close in meaning to "justice."

actually, equity is a financial term that has been bastardized to be a replacement for equality.
 
Equity is the idea thst the Governnent should ensure everyone reaches the finish line of the race at the exact same moment no matter how much faster or slower they are than the other runners

Equal Opportunity is simply the idea that two people under the same circumstances should be allowed to succeed or fail on their own merits.
 
we don't make much of this sowell inspired nonsense.
all are equal under the law (except the 1 guy who is immune from our laws for reasons that you would have to explain.)

"equity " is a legal term very close in meaning to "justice."
A "legal term"???????
It's a butchered word by you Marxist morons!
It's a fucking FINANCIAL TERM.
:rolleyes:
 
The average is not a good gauge of overall American wealth though because people like Elon Musk who figured out how to make a LOT of money, and who has the instincts, drive, work ethic, and ability to make a lot of money, distorts the average. The median net worth is a far more reliable gauge.

". . .According to the most recent report, released in October 2023, the overall mean or average net worth of U.S. households is roughly $1.06 million.

.Seems high, right? That’s because affluent households drive the average up.

Looking at the median, or the midpoint value, is a more accurate representation of the everyday person. The overall median net worth of U.S. households is $192,700. That might help you breathe a little easier. . ."
 
we don't make much of this sowell inspired nonsense.
all are equal under the law (except the 1 guy who is immune from our laws for reasons that you would have to explain.)

"equity " is a legal term very close in meaning to "justice."

0 for 3
 
The average is not a good gauge of overall American wealth though because people like Elon Musk who figured out how to make a LOT of money, and who has the instincts, drive, work ethic, and ability to make a lot of money, distorts the average. The median net worth is a far more reliable gauge.

". . .According to the most recent report, released in October 2023, the overall mean or average net worth of U.S. households is roughly $1.06 million.

.Seems high, right? That’s because affluent households drive the average up.

Looking at the median, or the midpoint value, is a more accurate representation of the everyday person. The overall median net worth of U.S. households is $192,700. That might help you breathe a little easier. . ."
The takeaway is that, regardless of average or median wealth, economic equity is virtually impossible.
 
Let's break this equity concept down into more concrete and simpler terms.

I am 5'4" tall, walk with a cane most times when I'm out and about, 15 to 30 minutes on the treadmill is about all I can do these days. And, I am getting up there in years. But at times my limited retirement income is more restrictive than I like. It would be very nice to be able to afford what say a pro basketball player can afford.

In the name of equity should the NBA be required to let me try out? Offer me a contract? Pay me what a NBA player is paid? They wouldn't have to actually let me play of course and I really wouldn't want to.

But conversely, say I am at that median net worth mentioned in Post #10, should the NBA players be required to play for what I receive in income every year? Of course those now receiving less would be given more to raise them up to my level.

And then we all--NBA players, doctors, lawyers, congress persons, teachers, maids, homeless people, car manufacturers, test pilots, soldiers, students, apprentices, retirees, migrants, EVERYBODY--would have the same income. True equity.

Fair no?

(On the bright side, it might discourage a lot of the migrants from coming here. :) )
 
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The takeaway is that, regardless of average or median wealth, economic equity is virtually impossible.
It is impossible, impractical, undesirable in the American form of free trade. But it would be possible for the government given power to do so to force everybody to have the same income, live within the same square footage, etc. In the OP definition, that would be true equity.
 

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