Explain to us Libs, what is a living wage?

[Foxfyre]

Probably because, as you've defined it here, it's entirely subjective. They object to it, as a political concept, because it's something each of us determine for ourselves, not something the state can or should dictate.

92 pages of a rethug trying to figure out what a living wage is. And now you say it is subjective.

Might be better to define what is a "subsistance wage". That is really what they are trying to talk about. How much is enough to subsist.

Again, it's subjective. Outside the physical requirements to sustain life (which will still, ultimately, be different in every case), the minimum income to 'subsist' depends on where and how a person chooses to live. A subsistence level income in Manhattan would provide a comfortable living in rural Mississippi. Should everyone who decides to move to NYC guaranteed a 'living wage'?

Anyway, I tend to agree that the 'confusion' over what defines a living wage is a bit of ruse, because that's not really the issue. The core disagreement is whether government should be in charge of dictating prices and wages.

Indeed. Some years ago I spent several months in West Virginia and was commissioned--a very SMALL commission--to help with a research project studying family life in Appalachia. This gave me a reason to really get out and talk with the people there about their lives and their outlook on life.

What I learned is that poverty is relative. Most of the people I talked to we would rate as among the nation's poorest families. And indeed their lives were not all that easy with work often temporary and difficult to find and they did without some luxuries that we take for granted. Their homes were small and fairly crude when compared to what we consider standard housing these days. There were still a fair number of outhouses.though most had indoor bathrooms.

But almost all of those folks owned the houses they lived in. Many were completely paid for. (At that time and perhaps now, West Virginia in the heart of Appalachia had the highest percentage of home ownership of any of the 50 states.) All of them had large gardens and they all knew how to can and preserve what those gardens produced as well as how to slaughter a hog and salt cure it to last the winter. They had chickens and fresh eggs. They cut firewood or obtained coal to heat their homes. All in all, they lived pretty well. And they took care of their neighbors who were having trouble.

And my impression of them is they were genuine, honest, caring, and, for the most part, positive and happy people. Were they poor in the sense that they had very little money? Yes. Were they poor in the sense that their basic needs were unmet? No.

A living wage in Barbour County, West Virginia, is much different than a living wage in New York City or Chicago or San Francisco or even Albuquerque.

 

[JRK]

92 pages of a rethug trying to figure out what a living wage is. And now you say it is subjective.

Might be better to define what is a "subsistance wage". That is really what they are trying to talk about. How much is enough to subsist.

Again, it's subjective. Outside the physical requirements to sustain life (which will still, ultimately, be different in every case), the minimum income to 'subsist' depends on where and how a person chooses to live. A subsistence level income in Manhattan would provide a comfortable living in rural Mississippi. Should everyone who decides to move to NYC guaranteed a 'living wage'?

Anyway, I tend to agree that the 'confusion' over what defines a living wage is a bit of ruse, because that's not really the issue. The core disagreement is whether government should be in charge of dictating prices and wages.

Indeed. Some years ago I spent several months in West Virginia and was commissioned--a very SMALL commission--to help with a research project studying family life in Appalachia. This gave me a reason to really get out and talk with the people there about their lives and their outlook on life.

What I learned is that poverty is relative. Most of the people I talked to we would rate as among the nation's poorest families. And indeed their lives were not all that easy with work often temporary and difficult to find and they did without some luxuries that we take for granted. Their homes were small and fairly crude when compared to what we consider standard housing these days. There were still a fair number of outhouses.though most had indoor bathrooms.

But almost all of those folks owned the houses they lived in. Many were completely paid for. (At that time and perhaps now, West Virginia in the heart of Appalachia had the highest percentage of home ownership of any of the 50 states.) All of them had large gardens and they all knew how to can and preserve what those gardens produced as well as how to slaughter a hog and salt cure it to last the winter. They had chickens and fresh eggs. They cut firewood or obtained coal to heat their homes. All in all, they lived pretty well. And they took care of their neighbors who were having trouble.

And my impression of them is they were genuine, honest, caring, and, for the most part, positive and happy people. Were they poor in the sense that they had very little money? Yes. Were they poor in the sense that their basic needs were unmet? No.

A living wage in Barbour County, West Virginia, is much different than a living wage in New York City or Chicago or San Francisco or even Albuquerque.

Say Anything Oil patch Walmart paying $17/hour in North Dakota » Say Anything
allowing growth in these areas also would help. My home is in rural Florida. we have no good paying jobs because of state and federal laws prohibiting oil and gas exploration/extraction as an example. nothing but cows and pulp-wood
I would demand it regualted and 100% ttied to the local economy. but as in WV with the coal the Lib tree huggers that demand a higher minimum wage are the same ones killing the chance to get out of poverty through well regulated expansion in these sectors as noted, that will in turn create others
Also poverty can be not only survived but as you have noted with some comfort. I see it all of my life. The biggest issue here is health insurance and the cost that we the tax payer is burden with in supporting Medicad, etc...

 

[Foxfyre]

Again, it's subjective. Outside the physical requirements to sustain life (which will still, ultimately, be different in every case), the minimum income to 'subsist' depends on where and how a person chooses to live. A subsistence level income in Manhattan would provide a comfortable living in rural Mississippi. Should everyone who decides to move to NYC guaranteed a 'living wage'?

Anyway, I tend to agree that the 'confusion' over what defines a living wage is a bit of ruse, because that's not really the issue. The core disagreement is whether government should be in charge of dictating prices and wages.

Indeed. Some years ago I spent several months in West Virginia and was commissioned--a very SMALL commission--to help with a research project studying family life in Appalachia. This gave me a reason to really get out and talk with the people there about their lives and their outlook on life.

What I learned is that poverty is relative. Most of the people I talked to we would rate as among the nation's poorest families. And indeed their lives were not all that easy with work often temporary and difficult to find and they did without some luxuries that we take for granted. Their homes were small and fairly crude when compared to what we consider standard housing these days. There were still a fair number of outhouses.though most had indoor bathrooms.

But almost all of those folks owned the houses they lived in. Many were completely paid for. (At that time and perhaps now, West Virginia in the heart of Appalachia had the highest percentage of home ownership of any of the 50 states.) All of them had large gardens and they all knew how to can and preserve what those gardens produced as well as how to slaughter a hog and salt cure it to last the winter. They had chickens and fresh eggs. They cut firewood or obtained coal to heat their homes. All in all, they lived pretty well. And they took care of their neighbors who were having trouble.

And my impression of them is they were genuine, honest, caring, and, for the most part, positive and happy people. Were they poor in the sense that they had very little money? Yes. Were they poor in the sense that their basic needs were unmet? No.

A living wage in Barbour County, West Virginia, is much different than a living wage in New York City or Chicago or San Francisco or even Albuquerque.

Say Anything Oil patch Walmart paying $17/hour in North Dakota » Say Anything
allowing growth in these areas also would help. My home is in rural Florida. we have no good paying jobs because of state and federal laws prohibiting oil and gas exploration/extraction as an example. nothing but cows and pulp-wood
I would demand it regualted and 100% ttied to the local economy. but as in WV with the coal the Lib tree huggers that demand a higher minimum wage are the same ones killing the chance to get out of poverty through well regulated expansion in these sectors as noted, that will in turn create others
Also poverty can be not only survived but as you have noted with some comfort. I see it all of my life. The biggest issue here is health insurance and the cost that we the tax payer is burden with in supporting Medicad, etc...

Not quite the same thing but related and includes government meddling that promotes poverty. . . .

When in West Virginia, I had opportunity to speak to an area farmer. A coal company located a nice vein of coal on his property and paid him for the rights to mine it. They used a common technique in those parts that strips away the land to expose the coal and remove it. But the law requires the coal company to restore the land to its original confomation when they leave.

So they mine the coal and in the process dig out a chunk of mountain leaving a broad expanse of flat ground that had once been a steep grade. The farmer was thrilled. He could build a barn there and place other things that would free up his small area of good bottom land to grow more crops. He had a chance to actually made a living. He asked the coal company not to replace the dirt they had dug out But nope. The government would not waive the law for the farmer's benefit and forced the coal company to restore the mountain.

It can get just that dumb. And this kind of thing is repeated all over the country in one form or another.

 

[JRK]

Indeed. Some years ago I spent several months in West Virginia and was commissioned--a very SMALL commission--to help with a research project studying family life in Appalachia. This gave me a reason to really get out and talk with the people there about their lives and their outlook on life.

What I learned is that poverty is relative. Most of the people I talked to we would rate as among the nation's poorest families. And indeed their lives were not all that easy with work often temporary and difficult to find and they did without some luxuries that we take for granted. Their homes were small and fairly crude when compared to what we consider standard housing these days. There were still a fair number of outhouses.though most had indoor bathrooms.

But almost all of those folks owned the houses they lived in. Many were completely paid for. (At that time and perhaps now, West Virginia in the heart of Appalachia had the highest percentage of home ownership of any of the 50 states.) All of them had large gardens and they all knew how to can and preserve what those gardens produced as well as how to slaughter a hog and salt cure it to last the winter. They had chickens and fresh eggs. They cut firewood or obtained coal to heat their homes. All in all, they lived pretty well. And they took care of their neighbors who were having trouble.

And my impression of them is they were genuine, honest, caring, and, for the most part, positive and happy people. Were they poor in the sense that they had very little money? Yes. Were they poor in the sense that their basic needs were unmet? No.

A living wage in Barbour County, West Virginia, is much different than a living wage in New York City or Chicago or San Francisco or even Albuquerque.

Say Anything Oil patch Walmart paying $17/hour in North Dakota » Say Anything
allowing growth in these areas also would help. My home is in rural Florida. we have no good paying jobs because of state and federal laws prohibiting oil and gas exploration/extraction as an example. nothing but cows and pulp-wood
I would demand it regualted and 100% ttied to the local economy. but as in WV with the coal the Lib tree huggers that demand a higher minimum wage are the same ones killing the chance to get out of poverty through well regulated expansion in these sectors as noted, that will in turn create others
Also poverty can be not only survived but as you have noted with some comfort. I see it all of my life. The biggest issue here is health insurance and the cost that we the tax payer is burden with in supporting Medicad, etc...

Not quite the same thing but related and includes government meddling that promotes poverty. . . .

When in West Virginia, I had opportunity to speak to an area farmer. A coal company located a nice vein of coal on his property and paid him for the rights to mine it. They used a common technique in those parts that strips away the land to expose the coal and remove it. But the law requires the coal company to restore the land to its original confomation when they leave.

So they mine the coal and in the process dig out a chunk of mountain leaving a broad expanse of flat ground that had once been a steep grade. The farmer was thrilled. He could build a barn there and place other things that would free up his small area of good bottom land to grow more crops. He had a chance to actually made a living. He asked the coal company not to replace the dirt they had dug out But nope. The government would not waive the law for the farmer's benefit and forced the coal company to restore the mountain.

It can get just that dumb. And this kind of thing is repeated all over the country in one form or another.

when it makes sense to leave well enough alone, the leave it
I am in full support of a well regulated free market.
but that does not mean to make an event do more harm just to say it was done
case in point is your example
Zero liquid discharge is an event we can use to mine, produce power, etc... as an example

 

[zeke]

92 pages of a rethug trying to figure out what a living wage is. And now you say it is subjective.

Might be better to define what is a "subsistance wage". That is really what they are trying to talk about. How much is enough to subsist.

Again, it's subjective. Outside the physical requirements to sustain life (which will still, ultimately, be different in every case), the minimum income to 'subsist' depends on where and how a person chooses to live. A subsistence level income in Manhattan would provide a comfortable living in rural Mississippi. Should everyone who decides to move to NYC guaranteed a 'living wage'?

Anyway, I tend to agree that the 'confusion' over what defines a living wage is a bit of ruse, because that's not really the issue. The core disagreement is whether government should be in charge of dictating prices and wages.

Indeed. Some years ago I spent several months in West Virginia and was commissioned--a very SMALL commission--to help with a research project studying family life in Appalachia. This gave me a reason to really get out and talk with the people there about their lives and their outlook on life.

What I learned is that poverty is relative. Most of the people I talked to we would rate as among the nation's poorest families. And indeed their lives were not all that easy with work often temporary and difficult to find and they did without some luxuries that we take for granted. Their homes were small and fairly crude when compared to what we consider standard housing these days. There were still a fair number of outhouses.though most had indoor bathrooms.

But almost all of those folks owned the houses they lived in. Many were completely paid for. (At that time and perhaps now, West Virginia in the heart of Appalachia had the highest percentage of home ownership of any of the 50 states.) All of them had large gardens and they all knew how to can and preserve what those gardens produced as well as how to slaughter a hog and salt cure it to last the winter. They had chickens and fresh eggs. They cut firewood or obtained coal to heat their homes. All in all, they lived pretty well. And they took care of their neighbors who were having trouble.

And my impression of them is they were genuine, honest, caring, and, for the most part, positive and happy people. Were they poor in the sense that they had very little money? Yes. Were they poor in the sense that their basic needs were unmet? No.

A living wage in Barbour County, West Virginia, is much different than a living wage in New York City or Chicago or San Francisco or even Albuquerque.[/QUOTE]



Somewhere in your writing above, you were trying to make a point. What was it? BTW I was born and raised in Haysi VA. Right in the middle of coal country. Your pretty as a picture view of the poverty of this area is touching. Especially the part about the farmer being ok with his mountain being gone. YOU know how big a mountain is? How big of a barn was this farmer building? Also, when they strip the mountain away to expose the coal, they CAN'T PUT THE FUKING MOUNTAIN BACK TOGETHER AGAIN.

Any way, if you were trying to say that the cost of living is different in each area of the country, and therefore would effect the definition of what a "barely living wage" is, just come out and say so. Most of us already knew that it takes more money to live the NYC than it does to live in Haysi VA. Duh. But poor is poor.

Oh and back to those poor coal miners I grew up with. You find out in your "study" that the reason theywere able to afford to BUY their homes was because theyjoined the UMW and were paid enough in wages to afford to buy their homes. That is, when there were still lots of United Mine Workers jobs to be had.

Did your study also show the number of people on the hated goverment Social Security disability income. Lots of miners with black lung and debilitating injury from years in the mines drawing, not a pension but a disability check. Cause the coal companies were able to buy themselves out of any liability for the injuries of the miners.

Or how about the oxycotin addiction problems. Miners and their dependents love the pain relief of oxycotin. Your study show anything about that?

From what you wrote you would think that W. Va is almost heaven.

 

[Foxfyre]

Again, it's subjective. Outside the physical requirements to sustain life (which will still, ultimately, be different in every case), the minimum income to 'subsist' depends on where and how a person chooses to live. A subsistence level income in Manhattan would provide a comfortable living in rural Mississippi. Should everyone who decides to move to NYC guaranteed a 'living wage'?

Anyway, I tend to agree that the 'confusion' over what defines a living wage is a bit of ruse, because that's not really the issue. The core disagreement is whether government should be in charge of dictating prices and wages.

Indeed. Some years ago I spent several months in West Virginia and was commissioned--a very SMALL commission--to help with a research project studying family life in Appalachia. This gave me a reason to really get out and talk with the people there about their lives and their outlook on life.

What I learned is that poverty is relative. Most of the people I talked to we would rate as among the nation's poorest families. And indeed their lives were not all that easy with work often temporary and difficult to find and they did without some luxuries that we take for granted. Their homes were small and fairly crude when compared to what we consider standard housing these days. There were still a fair number of outhouses.though most had indoor bathrooms.

But almost all of those folks owned the houses they lived in. Many were completely paid for. (At that time and perhaps now, West Virginia in the heart of Appalachia had the highest percentage of home ownership of any of the 50 states.) All of them had large gardens and they all knew how to can and preserve what those gardens produced as well as how to slaughter a hog and salt cure it to last the winter. They had chickens and fresh eggs. They cut firewood or obtained coal to heat their homes. All in all, they lived pretty well. And they took care of their neighbors who were having trouble.

And my impression of them is they were genuine, honest, caring, and, for the most part, positive and happy people. Were they poor in the sense that they had very little money? Yes. Were they poor in the sense that their basic needs were unmet? No.

A living wage in Barbour County, West Virginia, is much different than a living wage in New York City or Chicago or San Francisco or even Albuquerque.[/QUOTE]



Somewhere in your writing above, you were trying to make a point. What was it? BTW I was born and raised in Haysi VA. Right in the middle of coal country. Your pretty as a picture view of the poverty of this area is touching. Especially the part about the farmer being ok with his mountain being gone. YOU know how big a mountain is? How big of a barn was this farmer building? Also, when they strip the mountain away to expose the coal, they CAN'T PUT THE FUKING MOUNTAIN BACK TOGETHER AGAIN.

Any way, if you were trying to say that the cost of living is different in each area of the country, and therefore would effect the definition of what a "barely living wage" is, just come out and say so. Most of us already knew that it takes more money to live the NYC than it does to live in Haysi VA. Duh. But poor is poor.

Oh and back to those poor coal miners I grew up with. You find out in your "study" that the reason theywere able to afford to BUY their homes was because theyjoined the UMW and were paid enough in wages to afford to buy their homes. That is, when there were still lots of United Mine Workers jobs to be had.

Did your study also show the number of people on the hated goverment Social Security disability income. Lots of miners with black lung and debilitating injury from years in the mines drawing, not a pension but a disability check. Cause the coal companies were able to buy themselves out of any liability for the injuries of the miners.

Or how about the oxycotin addiction problems. Miners and their dependents love the pain relief of oxycotin. Your study show anything about that?

From what you wrote you would think that W. Va is almost heaven.

You have a much different impression about what I wrote than what I thought I wrote. Maybe you should read what I wrote again.

Oh, and oxycontin hadn't even been invented yet, much less marketed, when I was helping with that research study.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Dude, you don't count the numbers on the RIGHT side of the decmil point.
But lets say you do make 100k a year. Divided by 52 weeks. Divided by 40 hours. YOU make $48.08 an hour. And in a further post, you tout how someone starting out at 8 bucks an hour, after hard word and several years, they could make 13-15 dollars an hour. WOW eh?

So who in the fuk decided to pay you 48 dollars an hour. And why? It sure wasn't your writing skills. Or even your common sense.

So how'd you convince some company to pay a person not to literate (you), with 1 class of education beyond HS, 100k a year? That is 48 dollars an hour for us hourly wage slaves.

Inquiring minds and a lot of college grads want to know.

you know nothing about me and yet you judge me?
you liberals have a serious issue with calling people liars you know nothing about

what I make, how many hours I work has nothing to do with commitment, training, and a can-do attitude that will take you far in this world
BTW I make 39.00 an hour. I work an avg of 50 hours a weekthat is 109,000 a year
make it happen, go to where the work is.
Train
It is out there.
You jst got to want it

I have 21 year old son who work an average an avg of 60 hours a week in the Oil and gas industry
he makes 15 an hour
That equates to 55,000 a year plus expenses
you wonder why there paying people in N.D 15 an hour to work @ Burger King?
it is out there
my spelling?

You have one of those hated by the right wing union jobs. Don't ya? Cause their is no non union jobs paying uneducated people 39 dollars an hour. Without a union.

btw, can YOU live on 15 an hour? Even if you do work 60 hours a week. What fun that is right?

Can you at least share the industry that is paying you so well. With a HS education.

Are you sixteen and just entering the workforce?
A good machinist can make a hundred K easy. Hell my wife has one year of college and brings home close to 200 K.
And no neither one of us are union. Thats a huge misconception up in yankee land. You have to join one to make a decent wage. Total Bullshit.

Why do I get the feeling that all the people here who whine about minimum wage are actually working for minimum wage.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

The Liberal has no understanding of the problems the current admin, is causing us. the oil and gas sector is creating 100s of thousands of jobs
BTW I do not work in that sector, heavy industrial
Point being hte harm BHO done to the coal industry as well as not allowing the oil and gas sector to expand has cost us 100,s of thousands in jobs

Oh bullshit. Post up a credible link showing there are hundreds of thousands of jobs being created by the oil and gas industry. I mean, your son works in that industry.

And is the industry creating that many jobs (as you said) or is it that you THINK they could create that many. See the difference?

Is the area you live in short on energy? No gas? No electricity? What? Where do you think there is an energy shortgage in this country?

Are you serious? Are you really saying there are less then 200 thousand people working in the oil and gas industry? Shit there's more then that in Houston alone. WAY MORE!!

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Why are you rethugs so confused about what a "living wage" is?

It is the amount of money that lets people barely pay the rent. It is a wage where people can not afford health care. Or car repairs. Or some modest savings. A "living wage" is what you have when you do your Christmas shopping at the Goodwill store. A living wage is when you look to food stamps to help feed the family. Or a food pantry. It is a wage where people spend 100% of what they earn on basic living.

Or is all that what should rightly be called a "barely living wage"? That's the amount to many Americans earn. A barley getting by living wage.

And you rethugs evidently think they earn to much.

Why are liberals to lazy or stupid to get a job above minimum wage?
I worked for six months at minimum wage at my first job. Is that to much to ask of someone? Unless you're a complete moron thats about as long as it takes to get a raise.
If you cant apply yourself for that long just shoot yourself in the head now and save yourself from a dreary life.

 

[AmazonTania]

Why are you rethugs so confused about what a "living wage" is?

It is the amount of money that lets people barely pay the rent. It is a wage where people can not afford health care. Or car repairs. Or some modest savings. A "living wage" is what you have when you do your Christmas shopping at the Goodwill store. A living wage is when you look to food stamps to help feed the family. Or a food pantry. It is a wage where people spend 100% of what they earn on basic living.

Or is all that what should rightly be called a "barely living wage"? That's the amount to many Americans earn. A barley getting by living wage.

And you rethugs evidently think they earn to much.

You do realise that no country in the world has what you are describing, correct? Figured that over 200 sovereign nations, not one has what you would describe as a 'living wage.' Figured that would tell you something, but I guess not.

 

[Foxfyre]

The Liberal has no understanding of the problems the current admin, is causing us. the oil and gas sector is creating 100s of thousands of jobs
BTW I do not work in that sector, heavy industrial
Point being hte harm BHO done to the coal industry as well as not allowing the oil and gas sector to expand has cost us 100,s of thousands in jobs

Oh bullshit. Post up a credible link showing there are hundreds of thousands of jobs being created by the oil and gas industry. I mean, your son works in that industry.

And is the industry creating that many jobs (as you said) or is it that you THINK they could create that many. See the difference?

Is the area you live in short on energy? No gas? No electricity? What? Where do you think there is an energy shortgage in this country?

Are you serious? Are you really saying there are less then 200 thousand people working in the oil and gas industry? Shit there's more then that in Houston alone. WAY MORE!!

I read awhile back, I think it was Price Waterhouse who did an exhaustive analysis a year or so ago an concluded that the oil and gas industry supports about 9 million or so jobs and roughly 7.5% of the GDP. The U.K. with a tiny fraction of the resources we have and a much smaller population counts about 380,000 working in oil and gas. It is a huge industry. It would do much better and help us all out with lower costs and less threat of distruption of supply due to instability of foreign suppliers if Congress would just relax the more ridiculous of the restrictions and regulations on it.

 

[JRK]

Again, it's subjective. Outside the physical requirements to sustain life (which will still, ultimately, be different in every case), the minimum income to 'subsist' depends on where and how a person chooses to live. A subsistence level income in Manhattan would provide a comfortable living in rural Mississippi. Should everyone who decides to move to NYC guaranteed a 'living wage'?

Anyway, I tend to agree that the 'confusion' over what defines a living wage is a bit of ruse, because that's not really the issue. The core disagreement is whether government should be in charge of dictating prices and wages.

Indeed. Some years ago I spent several months in West Virginia and was commissioned--a very SMALL commission--to help with a research project studying family life in Appalachia. This gave me a reason to really get out and talk with the people there about their lives and their outlook on life.

What I learned is that poverty is relative. Most of the people I talked to we would rate as among the nation's poorest families. And indeed their lives were not all that easy with work often temporary and difficult to find and they did without some luxuries that we take for granted. Their homes were small and fairly crude when compared to what we consider standard housing these days. There were still a fair number of outhouses.though most had indoor bathrooms.

But almost all of those folks owned the houses they lived in. Many were completely paid for. (At that time and perhaps now, West Virginia in the heart of Appalachia had the highest percentage of home ownership of any of the 50 states.) All of them had large gardens and they all knew how to can and preserve what those gardens produced as well as how to slaughter a hog and salt cure it to last the winter. They had chickens and fresh eggs. They cut firewood or obtained coal to heat their homes. All in all, they lived pretty well. And they took care of their neighbors who were having trouble.

And my impression of them is they were genuine, honest, caring, and, for the most part, positive and happy people. Were they poor in the sense that they had very little money? Yes. Were they poor in the sense that their basic needs were unmet? No.

A living wage in Barbour County, West Virginia, is much different than a living wage in New York City or Chicago or San Francisco or even Albuquerque.[/QUOTE]



Somewhere in your writing above, you were trying to make a point. What was it? BTW I was born and raised in Haysi VA. Right in the middle of coal country. Your pretty as a picture view of the poverty of this area is touching. Especially the part about the farmer being ok with his mountain being gone. YOU know how big a mountain is? How big of a barn was this farmer building? Also, when they strip the mountain away to expose the coal, they CAN'T PUT THE FUKING MOUNTAIN BACK TOGETHER AGAIN.

Any way, if you were trying to say that the cost of living is different in each area of the country, and therefore would effect the definition of what a "barely living wage" is, just come out and say so. Most of us already knew that it takes more money to live the NYC than it does to live in Haysi VA. Duh. But poor is poor.

Oh and back to those poor coal miners I grew up with. You find out in your "study" that the reason theywere able to afford to BUY their homes was because theyjoined the UMW and were paid enough in wages to afford to buy their homes. That is, when there were still lots of United Mine Workers jobs to be had.

Did your study also show the number of people on the hated goverment Social Security disability income. Lots of miners with black lung and debilitating injury from years in the mines drawing, not a pension but a disability check. Cause the coal companies were able to buy themselves out of any liability for the injuries of the miners.

Or how about the oxycotin addiction problems. Miners and their dependents love the pain relief of oxycotin. Your study show anything about that?

From what you wrote you would think that W. Va is almost heaven.

You got anger issues
1) who cares if the mountain returns to a "mountain". well I guess you do. my point is there is a line that needs to be crossed but not done away with that allows people to prosper as well as protects the surronding enviroment
2) If you work for a living your going to end up hurting, I do not care if it is minig coal or building houses
3) Black lung is horrific. it is my undestanding that strip mining is done out-side? as I have stated over and over. well regulated. the Rock mines in Florida become some of the most Sought after fishing/picnic/recreation areas when those areas are re furbished

It is 100% about taking care of aking care of the environment while at the same time allowing the free market to create jobs

 

[zeke]

Indeed. Some years ago I spent several months in West Virginia and was commissioned--a very SMALL commission--to help with a research project studying family life in Appalachia. This gave me a reason to really get out and talk with the people there about their lives and their outlook on life.

What I learned is that poverty is relative. Most of the people I talked to we would rate as among the nation's poorest families. And indeed their lives were not all that easy with work often temporary and difficult to find and they did without some luxuries that we take for granted. Their homes were small and fairly crude when compared to what we consider standard housing these days. There were still a fair number of outhouses.though most had indoor bathrooms.

But almost all of those folks owned the houses they lived in. Many were completely paid for. (At that time and perhaps now, West Virginia in the heart of Appalachia had the highest percentage of home ownership of any of the 50 states.) All of them had large gardens and they all knew how to can and preserve what those gardens produced as well as how to slaughter a hog and salt cure it to last the winter. They had chickens and fresh eggs. They cut firewood or obtained coal to heat their homes. All in all, they lived pretty well. And they took care of their neighbors who were having trouble.

And my impression of them is they were genuine, honest, caring, and, for the most part, positive and happy people. Were they poor in the sense that they had very little money? Yes. Were they poor in the sense that their basic needs were unmet? No.

A living wage in Barbour County, West Virginia, is much different than a living wage in New York City or Chicago or San Francisco or even Albuquerque.[/QUOTE]



Somewhere in your writing above, you were trying to make a point. What was it? BTW I was born and raised in Haysi VA. Right in the middle of coal country. Your pretty as a picture view of the poverty of this area is touching. Especially the part about the farmer being ok with his mountain being gone. YOU know how big a mountain is? How big of a barn was this farmer building? Also, when they strip the mountain away to expose the coal, they CAN'T PUT THE FUKING MOUNTAIN BACK TOGETHER AGAIN.

Any way, if you were trying to say that the cost of living is different in each area of the country, and therefore would effect the definition of what a "barely living wage" is, just come out and say so. Most of us already knew that it takes more money to live the NYC than it does to live in Haysi VA. Duh. But poor is poor.

Oh and back to those poor coal miners I grew up with. You find out in your "study" that the reason theywere able to afford to BUY their homes was because theyjoined the UMW and were paid enough in wages to afford to buy their homes. That is, when there were still lots of United Mine Workers jobs to be had.

Did your study also show the number of people on the hated goverment Social Security disability income. Lots of miners with black lung and debilitating injury from years in the mines drawing, not a pension but a disability check. Cause the coal companies were able to buy themselves out of any liability for the injuries of the miners.

Or how about the oxycotin addiction problems. Miners and their dependents love the pain relief of oxycotin. Your study show anything about that?

From what you wrote you would think that W. Va is almost heaven.

You got anger issues
1) who cares if the mountain returns to a "mountain". well I guess you do. my point is there is a line that needs to be crossed but not done away with that allows people to prosper as well as protects the surronding enviroment
2) If you work for a living your going to end up hurting, I do not care if it is minig coal or building houses
3) Black lung is horrific. it is my undestanding that strip mining is done out-side? as I have stated over and over. well regulated. the Rock mines in Florida become some of the most Sought after fishing/picnic/recreation areas when those areas are re furbished

It is 100% about taking care of aking care of the environment while at the same time allowing the free market to create jobs

Anger issues? WTF. Who is angry?

You ever been to the Blue Ridge Mountains? One of the most beautiful mountain areas of the country. Or at least it used to be. Between the mining operations and the acid rain destroying the forests, well lets just say it ain't what it used to be. But what the hell, you don't live there.

And strip mining is done above ground. Doesn't hardly eliminate the coal dust, but at least you are above ground. Of course, there are still a good number of below ground mining operations. Especially the smaller mine operations are generally underground. Takes to much money and equipment to strip mine for the small operators. Then you have the retention ponds collecting an array of nasty products in a holding poolf course the ponds tend to break and dump a flood of real nasty chemical filled flood on the people down stream of the ponds. Real pretty what that does.

Yea the real reason that this part of the country was allowed to be treated like it has been is twofold; yes we have needed the coal and yes the poor people living there have no political power. So, Mitch McConnel become the beneficiary of the coal companies largesse and the coal companies will continue to do what they do all the while being well protected from any consequences of their actions. Thank the coal lobby and Mitch the Bitch.

So, you all didn't like how I defined a "living wage". OK, you define what is the amount of money you need to live on. Should it be 3 bucks an hour? 12?

And how come those with no education beyond HS and making 200k a year, how come you all never mention the company or even the field the company is in as some evidence that you all ain't just talking bull shit on a message board? Just curious on that one.

 

[JRK]

you know nothing about me and yet you judge me?
you liberals have a serious issue with calling people liars you know nothing about

what I make, how many hours I work has nothing to do with commitment, training, and a can-do attitude that will take you far in this world
BTW I make 39.00 an hour. I work an avg of 50 hours a weekthat is 109,000 a year
make it happen, go to where the work is.
Train
It is out there.
You jst got to want it

I have 21 year old son who work an average an avg of 60 hours a week in the Oil and gas industry
he makes 15 an hour
That equates to 55,000 a year plus expenses
you wonder why there paying people in N.D 15 an hour to work @ Burger King?
it is out there
my spelling?

You have one of those hated by the right wing union jobs. Don't ya? Cause their is no non union jobs paying uneducated people 39 dollars an hour. Without a union.

btw, can YOU live on 15 an hour? Even if you do work 60 hours a week. What fun that is right?

Can you at least share the industry that is paying you so well. With a HS education.

Are you sixteen and just entering the workforce?
A good machinist can make a hundred K easy. Hell my wife has one year of college and brings home close to 200 K.
And no neither one of us are union. Thats a huge misconception up in yankee land. You have to join one to make a decent wage. Total Bullshit.

Why do I get the feeling that all the people here who whine about minimum wage are actually working for minimum wage.

He nor the main stream media has any idea what there talking about. In the heavy industrial a combo welder makes 175-225k a year
I am on the low end as far as my skills
he is just a kid I guess

 

[JRK]

You got anger issues
1) who cares if the mountain returns to a "mountain". well I guess you do. my point is there is a line that needs to be crossed but not done away with that allows people to prosper as well as protects the surronding enviroment
2) If you work for a living your going to end up hurting, I do not care if it is minig coal or building houses
3) Black lung is horrific. it is my undestanding that strip mining is done out-side? as I have stated over and over. well regulated. the Rock mines in Florida become some of the most Sought after fishing/picnic/recreation areas when those areas are re furbished

It is 100% about taking care of aking care of the environment while at the same time allowing the free market to create jobs

Anger issues? WTF. Who is angry?

You ever been to the Blue Ridge Mountains? One of the most beautiful mountain areas of the country. Or at least it used to be. Between the mining operations and the acid rain destroying the forests, well lets just say it ain't what it used to be. But what the hell, you don't live there.

And strip mining is done above ground. Doesn't hardly eliminate the coal dust, but at least you are above ground. Of course, there are still a good number of below ground mining operations. Especially the smaller mine operations are generally underground. Takes to much money and equipment to strip mine for the small operators. Then you have the retention ponds collecting an array of nasty products in a holding poolf course the ponds tend to break and dump a flood of real nasty chemical filled flood on the people down stream of the ponds. Real pretty what that does.

Yea the real reason that this part of the country was allowed to be treated like it has been is twofold; yes we have needed the coal and yes the poor people living there have no political power. So, Mitch McConnel become the beneficiary of the coal companies largesse and the coal companies will continue to do what they do all the while being well protected from any consequences of their actions. Thank the coal lobby and Mitch the Bitch.

So, you all didn't like how I defined a "living wage". OK, you define what is the amount of money you need to live on. Should it be 3 bucks an hour? 12?

And how come those with no education beyond HS and making 200k a year, how come you all never mention the company or even the field the company is in as some evidence that you all ain't just talking bull shit on a message board? Just curious on that one.

It is really none of youir business
HB Zachary
Bechtal
PCL
TIC
KBR
there is a start
what I do?

I build big shit
My expertise?
I can do much, I have been doing this for 30+ years

right now I like to work 8 months and hunt and fish for 4 months when I can

 

[JRK]

I said from the start a living wage is 25,000 a year for a single person
to me a minimum wage is a starting point, not the end

 

[dblack]

Anger issues? WTF. Who is angry?

You ever been to the Blue Ridge Mountains? One of the most beautiful mountain areas of the country. Or at least it used to be. Between the mining operations and the acid rain destroying the forests, well lets just say it ain't what it used to be. But what the hell, you don't live there.

And strip mining is done above ground. Doesn't hardly eliminate the coal dust, but at least you are above ground. Of course, there are still a good number of below ground mining operations. Especially the smaller mine operations are generally underground. Takes to much money and equipment to strip mine for the small operators. Then you have the retention ponds collecting an array of nasty products in a holding poolf course the ponds tend to break and dump a flood of real nasty chemical filled flood on the people down stream of the ponds. Real pretty what that does.

Yea the real reason that this part of the country was allowed to be treated like it has been is twofold; yes we have needed the coal and yes the poor people living there have no political power. So, Mitch McConnel become the beneficiary of the coal companies largesse and the coal companies will continue to do what they do all the while being well protected from any consequences of their actions. Thank the coal lobby and Mitch the Bitch.

So, you all didn't like how I defined a "living wage". OK, you define what is the amount of money you need to live on. Should it be 3 bucks an hour? 12?

And how come those with no education beyond HS and making 200k a year, how come you all never mention the company or even the field the company is in as some evidence that you all ain't just talking bull shit on a message board? Just curious on that one.

It is really none of youir business
HB Zachary
Bechtal
PCL
TIC
KBR
there is a start
what I do?

I build big shit
My expertise?
I can do much, I have been doing this for 30+ years

right now I like to work 8 months and hunt and fish for 4 months when I can

And old friend of mine used to do underwater welding on oil rigs. He had a similar schedule. 6 on, 6 off. Fooled around in the Caribbean all winter. It's a risky business though.

 

[editec]

You have one of those hated by the right wing union jobs. Don't ya? Cause their is no non union jobs paying uneducated people 39 dollars an hour. Without a union.

btw, can YOU live on 15 an hour? Even if you do work 60 hours a week. What fun that is right?

Can you at least share the industry that is paying you so well. With a HS education.

Are you sixteen and just entering the workforce?
A good machinist can make a hundred K easy. Hell my wife has one year of college and brings home close to 200 K.
And no neither one of us are union. Thats a huge misconception up in yankee land. You have to join one to make a decent wage. Total Bullshit.

Why do I get the feeling that all the people here who whine about minimum wage are actually working for minimum wage.

He nor the main stream media has any idea what there talking about. In the heavy industrial a combo welder makes 175-225k a year
I am on the low end as far as my skills
he is just a kid I guess

Salary Information - Careers In Welding

The starting pay for most welding jobs is pretty basic, especially right out of high school. But, with more experience, the potential to earn two or three times that amount is definitely there.

And making $100,000 or more isn’t out of the question. But only if you are the best of the best—the Tom Brady or Derek Jeter of welding—and you are willing to work in some far-off spots.

 

[JRK]

It is really none of youir business
HB Zachary
Bechtal
PCL
TIC
KBR
there is a start
what I do?

I build big shit
My expertise?
I can do much, I have been doing this for 30+ years

right now I like to work 8 months and hunt and fish for 4 months when I can

And old friend of mine used to do underwater welding on oil rigs. He had a similar schedule. 6 on, 6 off. Fooled around in the Caribbean all winter. It's a risky business though.

That is true. It also is very stresful at times

 

[Wildman]

JeRK.., have yo learned anything yet ?

a living wage in my OPINION is anything that comfortably supports that person and his immediate family's life style, so..., it could be $20,000.00 or it could be $200,000.00 or it could be $2,000,000.00.........., OK ?