Explain to us Libs, what is a living wage?

[HereWeGoAgain]

This whole minimum wage discussion gets old when you cant convince a liberal that flipping burgers is not a skill that warrants fifteen bucks an hour.
You keep it up and Burger King WILL find a way to automate the process. It aint rocket science.

The stupidity level is right up there with the union guy making thirty bucks an hour to install the same part over and over.....you could teach a monkey to do it.
The way I look at it,the union guy has zero marketable skills considering he's done the same thing for ten years. No wonder he needs union protection. The guy's a dolt.

 

[dblack]

This whole minimum wage discussion gets old when you cant convince a liberal that flipping burgers is not a skill that warrants fifteen bucks an hour.

But that's not the issue. It might be worth that much, to someone, somewhere. The point is, it's not the job of government to decide. It's up to whoever is paying for the service offered.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

This whole minimum wage discussion gets old when you cant convince a liberal that flipping burgers is not a skill that warrants fifteen bucks an hour.

But that's not the issue. It might be worth that much, to someone, somewhere. The point is, it's not the job of government to decide. It's up to whoever is paying for the service offered.

I agree. We should get rid of minimum wage altogether. Let the market decide.
But you still wont convince a lib that that a burger flipper doesnt deserve a living wage.
He's flipping burgers for Christ sake!!!

 

[Foxfyre]

This whole minimum wage discussion gets old when you cant convince a liberal that flipping burgers is not a skill that warrants fifteen bucks an hour.

But that's not the issue. It might be worth that much, to someone, somewhere. The point is, it's not the job of government to decide. It's up to whoever is paying for the service offered.

I agree. We should get rid of minimum wage altogether. Let the market decide.
But you still wont convince a lib that that a burger flipper doesnt deserve a living wage.
He's flipping burgers for Christ sake!!!

Still flipping burgers is honest work and if the employee is running a station so efficiently and effectively that the service and quality is bringing customers back, and his work ethic is otherwise commendable, he very well might be worth a living wage to his employer. Certainly the wise employer will pay as much as he can afford to keep such an employee.

Our labor is worth only as much as it produces profits for the person who pays it. That is the one fact that the socialist/Marxist minded don't seem to comprehend.

 

[JRK]

Are you sixteen and just entering the workforce?
A good machinist can make a hundred K easy. Hell my wife has one year of college and brings home close to 200 K.
And no neither one of us are union. Thats a huge misconception up in yankee land. You have to join one to make a decent wage. Total Bullshit.

Why do I get the feeling that all the people here who whine about minimum wage are actually working for minimum wage.

He nor the main stream media has any idea what there talking about. In the heavy industrial a combo welder makes 175-225k a year
I am on the low end as far as my skills
he is just a kid I guess

Salary Information - Careers In Welding

The starting pay for most welding jobs is pretty basic, especially right out of high school. But, with more experience, the potential to earn two or three times that amount is definitely there.

And making $100,000 or more isn’t out of the question. But only if you are the best of the best—the Tom Brady or Derek Jeter of welding—and you are willing to work in some far-off spots.

if you are a combo (pipe) welder or can weld water tubes in boilers the norm is around 35.00 an hour
It is part of what I do and there is a huge demand for these people everywhere

of course that same welder can stay close to home and make 15.00 or so

 

[JRK]

JeRK.., have yo learned anything yet ?

a living wage in my OPINION is anything that comfortably supports that person and his immediate family's life style, so..., it could be $20,000.00 or it could be $200,000.00 or it could be $2,000,000.00.........., OK ?

Jerk?
what ever you say bud that makes you happy

 

[Lonestar_logic]

He nor the main stream media has any idea what there talking about. In the heavy industrial a combo welder makes 175-225k a year
I am on the low end as far as my skills
he is just a kid I guess

Salary Information - Careers In Welding

The starting pay for most welding jobs is pretty basic, especially right out of high school. But, with more experience, the potential to earn two or three times that amount is definitely there.

And making $100,000 or more isn’t out of the question. But only if you are the best of the best—the Tom Brady or Derek Jeter of welding—and you are willing to work in some far-off spots.

if you are a combo (pipe) welder or can weld water tubes in boilers the norm is around 35.00 an hour
It is part of what I do and there is a huge demand for these people everywhere

of course that same welder can stay close to home and make 15.00 or so

Here in the petro-chemical plants in Southeast Texas, we pay our welders average around30 bucks per hour and 38 bucks per hour for their rig.


Texas is BOOMING!!

 

[JRK]

Salary Information - Careers In Welding

if you are a combo (pipe) welder or can weld water tubes in boilers the norm is around 35.00 an hour
It is part of what I do and there is a huge demand for these people everywhere

of course that same welder can stay close to home and make 15.00 or so

Here in the petro-chemical plants in Southeast Texas, we pay our welders average around30 bucks per hour and 38 bucks per hour for their rig.


Texas is BOOMING!!

yes it is, very much so
and if BHO would open the pipe-line up it would boom even more
there is also MUCH work around Wheeler Texas

The debate began some time ago when the left started this "Minimum" , or "living" wage
go to Wheeler, hang around those rigs and you will get all you want and learn a trade at the same time
same doe in the golden triangle where you are
spent 2 years at Motiva

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

But that's not the issue. It might be worth that much, to someone, somewhere. The point is, it's not the job of government to decide. It's up to whoever is paying for the service offered.

I agree. We should get rid of minimum wage altogether. Let the market decide.
But you still wont convince a lib that that a burger flipper doesnt deserve a living wage.
He's flipping burgers for Christ sake!!!

Still flipping burgers is honest work and if the employee is running a station so efficiently and effectively that the service and quality is bringing customers back, and his work ethic is otherwise commendable, he very well might be worth a living wage to his employer. Certainly the wise employer will pay as much as he can afford to keep such an employee.

Our labor is worth only as much as it produces profits for the person who pays it. That is the one fact that the socialist/Marxist minded don't seem to comprehend.

Nope sorry....Now if that burger flipper parlayed that job and used it to get a job at say TGIF,then his pay will go up.
And that my friend is the way life works. The lazy do not deserve special treatment.
Now if a person is disabled? Thats a different story. Because you would have to be disabled if you were to find that Burger King is at the top of your abilities.

 

[Foxfyre]

He nor the main stream media has any idea what there talking about. In the heavy industrial a combo welder makes 175-225k a year
I am on the low end as far as my skills
he is just a kid I guess

Salary Information - Careers In Welding

The starting pay for most welding jobs is pretty basic, especially right out of high school. But, with more experience, the potential to earn two or three times that amount is definitely there.

And making $100,000 or more isn’t out of the question. But only if you are the best of the best—the Tom Brady or Derek Jeter of welding—and you are willing to work in some far-off spots.

if you are a combo (pipe) welder or can weld water tubes in boilers the norm is around 35.00 an hour
It is part of what I do and there is a huge demand for these people everywhere

of course that same welder can stay close to home and make 15.00 or so

Or he can work for an oil company at a starting wage of a minimum of $25/hour for a pure novice - most experienced welders that can work with little or no supervision and do good work can easily earn $50k and up plus excellent benefits.

It is all relative. Our labor is worth what it can generate in profits for an employer or, if we are self employed, what somebody is willing to pay for the product or services we offer.

 

[JRK]

I agree. We should get rid of minimum wage altogether. Let the market decide.
But you still wont convince a lib that that a burger flipper doesnt deserve a living wage.
He's flipping burgers for Christ sake!!!

Still flipping burgers is honest work and if the employee is running a station so efficiently and effectively that the service and quality is bringing customers back, and his work ethic is otherwise commendable, he very well might be worth a living wage to his employer. Certainly the wise employer will pay as much as he can afford to keep such an employee.

Our labor is worth only as much as it produces profits for the person who pays it. That is the one fact that the socialist/Marxist minded don't seem to comprehend.

Nope sorry....Now if that burger flipper parlayed that job and used it to get a job at say TGIF,then his pay will go up.
And that my friend is the way life works. The lazy do not deserve special treatment.
Now if a person is disabled? Thats a different story. Because you would have to be disabled if you were to find that Burger King is at the top of your abilities.

There was a woman at the local Hardees in my home town who worked there 25 years or so
big party when she retired
now where I see this si if you can live on making biscuits, then more power to you
Sure she was married and with her husbands job they did fine

I know nothing about those places. but there is no doubt that Mgmt gets Bonuses, 401K or stock options, etc....
I know wall mart full time does

 

[JRK]

This came form the age old game the left plays about doing the poor a favor with a minimum wage
bottom line is that 8.00 an hour is better than 7, but a living wage is dictated by the person and his/her work ethic,
ot the federal govt

 

[bripat9643]

I said from the start a living wage is 25,000 a year for a single person
to me a minimum wage is a starting point, not the end

Where? In New York City that wouldn't even pay the rent on a 300 sqft apartment. In Jacksonville FL you could live on less than that.

The idea that anyone is entitled to a given income, not based on what his skills are worth, but instead based on some arbitrary definition of what he "needs" is so obviously bogus that it's hard to believe anyone would utter the claim in public.

 

[bripat9643]

And old friend of mine used to do underwater welding on oil rigs. He had a similar schedule. 6 on, 6 off. Fooled around in the Caribbean all winter. It's a risky business though.

Divers all have to retire when they are fairly young because being exposed to compressed air causes your bones to get saturated with Nitrogen and that makes them turn into rubber.

 

[Foxfyre]

I agree. We should get rid of minimum wage altogether. Let the market decide.
But you still wont convince a lib that that a burger flipper doesnt deserve a living wage.
He's flipping burgers for Christ sake!!!

Still flipping burgers is honest work and if the employee is running a station so efficiently and effectively that the service and quality is bringing customers back, and his work ethic is otherwise commendable, he very well might be worth a living wage to his employer. Certainly the wise employer will pay as much as he can afford to keep such an employee.

Our labor is worth only as much as it produces profits for the person who pays it. That is the one fact that the socialist/Marxist minded don't seem to comprehend.

Nope sorry....Now if that burger flipper parlayed that job and used it to get a job at say TGIF,then his pay will go up.
And that my friend is the way life works. The lazy do not deserve special treatment.
Now if a person is disabled? Thats a different story. Because you would have to be disabled if you were to find that Burger King is at the top of your abilities.

Now that would depend on the burger joint wouldn't it? There is a huge difference between McDonalds who depends heavily on huge volume and mostly part time employees to shovel out mostly premade products earning only a few cents in profits over costs. It is true that unless a person works up into management positions, they probably won't earn what they would consider an attractive living wage at McDonalds. And yet more than a half million people are happy to make extra pocket money or supplement their incomes with those McDonalds jobs. But make those wages too high, and it is likely that McDonalds products would have to be raised to the point that they are no longer as attractive to those large numbers of customers.

Result? Hours scaled back, employees laid off, stores close, less opportunity for everybody. Few people prefer McDonald burgers over a really good, fresh, hand made burger, and if there isn't a huge price differential, McDonalds would lose business.

But a gourmet hamburger place can command the same clientele and prices as any other fine dining establishment. And even with much less volume and much higher costs, they depend on top quality and service to attract their customers, keep them coming back, and their hamburger flipping chef can do very well as restaurant jobs go.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

You have one of those hated by the right wing union jobs. Don't ya? Cause their is no non union jobs paying uneducated people 39 dollars an hour. Without a union.

btw, can YOU live on 15 an hour? Even if you do work 60 hours a week. What fun that is right?

Can you at least share the industry that is paying you so well. With a HS education.

Are you sixteen and just entering the workforce?
A good machinist can make a hundred K easy. Hell my wife has one year of college and brings home close to 200 K.
And no neither one of us are union. Thats a huge misconception up in yankee land. You have to join one to make a decent wage. Total Bullshit.

Why do I get the feeling that all the people here who whine about minimum wage are actually working for minimum wage.

He nor the main stream media has any idea what there talking about. In the heavy industrial a combo welder makes 175-225k a year
I am on the low end as far as my skills
he is just a kid I guess

They still dont get that a right to work state means a right to make a shitload of money if you work at it.
The cream rises to the top. If you're a lazy fuck? Dont bother moving to one.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Still flipping burgers is honest work and if the employee is running a station so efficiently and effectively that the service and quality is bringing customers back, and his work ethic is otherwise commendable, he very well might be worth a living wage to his employer. Certainly the wise employer will pay as much as he can afford to keep such an employee.

Our labor is worth only as much as it produces profits for the person who pays it. That is the one fact that the socialist/Marxist minded don't seem to comprehend.

Nope sorry....Now if that burger flipper parlayed that job and used it to get a job at say TGIF,then his pay will go up.
And that my friend is the way life works. The lazy do not deserve special treatment.
Now if a person is disabled? Thats a different story. Because you would have to be disabled if you were to find that Burger King is at the top of your abilities.

There was a woman at the local Hardees in my home town who worked there 25 years or so
big party when she retired
now where I see this si if you can live on making biscuits, then more power to you
Sure she was married and with her husbands job they did fine

I know nothing about those places. but there is no doubt that Mgmt gets Bonuses, 401K or stock options, etc....
I know wall mart full time does

I've heard this story before. It's not difficult to get a job that has ...dental,vision,401K,health savings plan,health insurance..etc.
I dont have a college degree and yet for three quarters of my working life I've had most all of these benefits.
How do you explain this?

 

[zeke]

Anger issues? WTF. Who is angry?

You ever been to the Blue Ridge Mountains? One of the most beautiful mountain areas of the country. Or at least it used to be. Between the mining operations and the acid rain destroying the forests, well lets just say it ain't what it used to be. But what the hell, you don't live there.

And strip mining is done above ground. Doesn't hardly eliminate the coal dust, but at least you are above ground. Of course, there are still a good number of below ground mining operations. Especially the smaller mine operations are generally underground. Takes to much money and equipment to strip mine for the small operators. Then you have the retention ponds collecting an array of nasty products in a holding poolf course the ponds tend to break and dump a flood of real nasty chemical filled flood on the people down stream of the ponds. Real pretty what that does.

Yea the real reason that this part of the country was allowed to be treated like it has been is twofold; yes we have needed the coal and yes the poor people living there have no political power. So, Mitch McConnel become the beneficiary of the coal companies largesse and the coal companies will continue to do what they do all the while being well protected from any consequences of their actions. Thank the coal lobby and Mitch the Bitch.

So, you all didn't like how I defined a "living wage". OK, you define what is the amount of money you need to live on. Should it be 3 bucks an hour? 12?

And how come those with no education beyond HS and making 200k a year, how come you all never mention the company or even the field the company is in as some evidence that you all ain't just talking bull shit on a message board? Just curious on that one.

It is really none of youir business
HB Zachary
Bechtal
PCL
TIC
KBR
there is a start
what I do?

I build big shit
My expertise?
I can do much, I have been doing this for 30+ years

right now I like to work 8 months and hunt and fish for 4 months when I can

Everybody can't weld. Or build big shit. And wtf, you telling me that 30 years ago you were making 200k a year. But that is what it takes for you to live now eh, 200k a year. Can't get by on less. You think that if everyone was a welder, they would pay you 200k a year?

Instead of a living wage discussion, how about a discussion about what is the LEAST amount a person could be paid and still survive at a basic level.

That's where you all really want to go. No minimum on wages. Start out at wages that would make a welfare check look like a big pay raise.

What is the least amount that a burger flipper should be paid?

I got the solution. Everytime a company needs to hire a new worker, they should open the job up to a wage bidding war. The potential employee who bids the lowest hourly amount they would work for gets the new job.[/SIZE

]Would that be great or what? Then we could really drive down the cost of labor and find out just what a "living wage" is. It is the least amount a person will work for.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Still flipping burgers is honest work and if the employee is running a station so efficiently and effectively that the service and quality is bringing customers back, and his work ethic is otherwise commendable, he very well might be worth a living wage to his employer. Certainly the wise employer will pay as much as he can afford to keep such an employee.

Our labor is worth only as much as it produces profits for the person who pays it. That is the one fact that the socialist/Marxist minded don't seem to comprehend.

Nope sorry....Now if that burger flipper parlayed that job and used it to get a job at say TGIF,then his pay will go up.
And that my friend is the way life works. The lazy do not deserve special treatment.
Now if a person is disabled? Thats a different story. Because you would have to be disabled if you were to find that Burger King is at the top of your abilities.

Now that would depend on the burger joint wouldn't it? There is a huge difference between McDonalds who depends heavily on huge volume and mostly part time employees to shovel out mostly premade products earning only a few cents in profits over costs. It is true that unless a person works up into management positions, they probably won't earn what they would consider an attractive living wage at McDonalds. And yet more than a half million people are happy to make extra pocket money or supplement their incomes with those McDonalds jobs. But make those wages too high, and it is likely that McDonalds products would have to be raised to the point that they are no longer as attractive to those large numbers of customers.

Result? Hours scaled back, employees laid off, stores close, less opportunity for everybody. Few people prefer McDonald burgers over a really good, fresh, hand made burger, and if there isn't a huge price differential, McDonalds would lose business.

But a gourmet hamburger place can command the same clientele and prices as any other fine dining establishment. And even with much less volume and much higher costs, they depend on top quality and service to attract their customers, keep them coming back, and their hamburger flipping chef can do very well as restaurant jobs go.

OK.....First let me say that I'm about six beers and a bulldog into a nice buzz.
But I think you should re-read my post.
And again with the disclaimer .....I'm buzzed!!! And prepared to get even ...buzzeder?

 

[Foxfyre]

Nope sorry....Now if that burger flipper parlayed that job and used it to get a job at say TGIF,then his pay will go up.
And that my friend is the way life works. The lazy do not deserve special treatment.
Now if a person is disabled? Thats a different story. Because you would have to be disabled if you were to find that Burger King is at the top of your abilities.

Now that would depend on the burger joint wouldn't it? There is a huge difference between McDonalds who depends heavily on huge volume and mostly part time employees to shovel out mostly premade products earning only a few cents in profits over costs. It is true that unless a person works up into management positions, they probably won't earn what they would consider an attractive living wage at McDonalds. And yet more than a half million people are happy to make extra pocket money or supplement their incomes with those McDonalds jobs. But make those wages too high, and it is likely that McDonalds products would have to be raised to the point that they are no longer as attractive to those large numbers of customers.

Result? Hours scaled back, employees laid off, stores close, less opportunity for everybody. Few people prefer McDonald burgers over a really good, fresh, hand made burger, and if there isn't a huge price differential, McDonalds would lose business.

But a gourmet hamburger place can command the same clientele and prices as any other fine dining establishment. And even with much less volume and much higher costs, they depend on top quality and service to attract their customers, keep them coming back, and their hamburger flipping chef can do very well as restaurant jobs go.

OK.....First let me say that I'm about six beers and a bulldog into a nice buzz.
But I think you should re-read my post.
And again with the disclaimer .....I'm buzzed!!! And prepared to get even ...buzzeder?

Fair enough.