Explain to us Libs, what is a living wage?

[kaz]

Like I said I am all for a 15.00 and hour minimum wage, but that means a big mac would be 5.00
a gallon of gas? about the same. the real feel would be in the wall mart/Burger King type business

And then the left would say 15 an hour isn't a "living wage" and increase it to $20 an hour. A Big Mac and gas would go to $7.50. Then they'd say we need $30 an hour.

Maybe government force to raise wages isn't the solution. Ya think?

I have no issue as an employer paying people what they are worth. I have an issue paying them what they are not worth.

 

[JRK]

Like I said I am all for a 15.00 and hour minimum wage, but that means a big mac would be 5.00
a gallon of gas? about the same. the real feel would be in the wall mart/Burger King type business

And then the left would say 15 an hour isn't a "living wage" and increase it to $20 an hour. A Big Mac and gas would go to $7.50. Then they'd say we need $30 an hour.

Maybe government force to raise wages isn't the solution. Ya think?

I have no issue as an employer paying people what they are worth. I have an issue paying them what they are not worth.

get out of bed @0500
work 8 hours a day for others to profit is worth something more than 280.00 a week
with that stated it is one of the only views I am a blue dog on
Minimum wage is a joke
now that 15.00 should include any additional retirement and insurance
for instance if the employer is funding ins 3.00 an hour and kicking in 1.00 an hour for your 401k, then that hourly pay should be 11.00

 

[Foxfyre]

Like I said I am all for a 15.00 and hour minimum wage, but that means a big mac would be 5.00
a gallon of gas? about the same. the real feel would be in the wall mart/Burger King type business

And then the left would say 15 an hour isn't a "living wage" and increase it to $20 an hour. A Big Mac and gas would go to $7.50. Then they'd say we need $30 an hour.

Maybe government force to raise wages isn't the solution. Ya think?

I have no issue as an employer paying people what they are worth. I have an issue paying them what they are not worth.

get out of bed @0500
work 8 hours a day for others to profit is worth something more than 280.00 a week
with that stated it is one of the only views I am a blue dog on
Minimum wage is a joke
now that 15.00 should include any additional retirement and insurance
for instance if the employer is funding ins 3.00 an hour and kicking in 1.00 an hour for your 401k, then that hourly pay should be 11.00

It is a joke only if you are earning substantially more than that for your employer. Even at minimum wage you are costing the employer additional costs for FICA, SUTA, FUTA, work comp, and, depending on the industry, general liability premiums. Some states impose varous other payroll taxes on top of that.

The kid hired at minimum wage to pick up shingles and other trash and be a go-fer for a roofing company, as of several years ago, cost his employer $17 and up per $100 of wages for work comp premiums alone. Those premiums have probably increased since then. Make the mandatory wage too high, and the roofer simply won't hire that kid at all. In any average business, an employer with 10 to 20 employees can pay, on average, between $7,000 and $10,000 per year in workers comp premiums, depending on the number of workers in risky positions. High risk jobs have much higher premiums. And in all states, work comp is the most strictly regulated insurance you will find.

When the economy was booming during most of the Bush years--we had near full employment in 2006 and 2007--the roofer hired those kids pretty often to train them to be roofers or to free up the experienced roofers to do all roofing instead of having to take time to do clean up. These days those kinds of training jobs are hard to come by as there are so many experienced workers out of work. Make the minimum wage too costly for employers to train new workers, and the market dries up even more for those just starting out.

 

[zeke]

And then the left would say 15 an hour isn't a "living wage" and increase it to $20 an hour. A Big Mac and gas would go to $7.50. Then they'd say we need $30 an hour.

Maybe government force to raise wages isn't the solution. Ya think?

I have no issue as an employer paying people what they are worth. I have an issue paying them what they are not worth.

get out of bed @0500
work 8 hours a day for others to profit is worth something more than 280.00 a week
with that stated it is one of the only views I am a blue dog on
Minimum wage is a joke
now that 15.00 should include any additional retirement and insurance
for instance if the employer is funding ins 3.00 an hour and kicking in 1.00 an hour for your 401k, then that hourly pay should be 11.00

It is a joke only if you are earning substantially more than that for your employer. Even at minimum wage you are costing the employer additional costs for FICA, SUTA, FUTA, work comp, and, depending on the industry, general liability premiums. Some states impose varous other payroll taxes on top of that.

The kid hired at minimum wage to pick up shingles and other trash and be a go-fer for a roofing company, as of several years ago, cost his employer $17 and up per $100 of wages for work comp premiums alone. Those premiums have probably increased since then. Make the mandatory wage too high, and the roofer simply won't hire that kid at all. In any average business, an employer with 10 to 20 employees can pay, on average, between $7,000 and $10,000 per year in workers comp premiums, depending on the number of workers in risky positions. High risk jobs have much higher premiums. And in all states, work comp is the most strictly regulated insurance you will find.

When the economy was booming during most of the Bush years--we had near full employment in 2006 and 2007--the roofer hired those kids pretty often to train them to be roofers or to free up the experienced roofers to do all roofing instead of having to take time to do clean up. These days those kinds of training jobs are hard to come by as there are so many experienced workers out of work. Make the minimum wage too costly for employers to train new workers, and the market dries up even more for those just starting out.

I see where we are back in delusionville.

So the roofer hiring low skill labor to pick up the job site is going to do what........if he had to pay 8.25 instead of 7.25 an hour. Is the roofing company going to make their customer mad by leaving all the trash on the ground? Is the roofing company going to have one of the shinglers (making way more than minimum wage) going to pick up the trash? No is the answer to both questions.

In fact, most roofers are part of a crew that sub contracts the labor. They get paid by the square of shingles they put down. The pay is split based on skill sets. Shinglers get paid the most. Almost every crew member is making more than minimum wage.

You ever put a roof on? Hard work and worth more than minimum wage. About the only roofing comanies paying just minimum wage or less, are using illegals for their roofing crew. And the illegals will work for whatever.

Hey maybe more Americans will become like the illegals and just be glad to get paid something for their time and work.

 

[DiamondDave]

Like I said I am all for a 15.00 and hour minimum wage, but that means a big mac would be 5.00
a gallon of gas? about the same. the real feel would be in the wall mart/Burger King type business

And then the left would say 15 an hour isn't a "living wage" and increase it to $20 an hour. A Big Mac and gas would go to $7.50. Then they'd say we need $30 an hour.

Maybe government force to raise wages isn't the solution. Ya think?

I have no issue as an employer paying people what they are worth. I have an issue paying them what they are not worth.

get out of bed @0500
work 8 hours a day for others to profit is worth something more than 280.00 a week
with that stated it is one of the only views I am a blue dog on
Minimum wage is a joke
now that 15.00 should include any additional retirement and insurance
for instance if the employer is funding ins 3.00 an hour and kicking in 1.00 an hour for your 401k, then that hourly pay should be 11.00

Not necessarily.. when 99.9% of the populace and many simple machines could replace what you are doing... that is not worth something to the tune of 22K or 30K a year

What is a joke is that people think they are owed something decent when they don't do the decent thing or what is necessary to advance themselves into a decent wage

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Like I said I am all for a 15.00 and hour minimum wage, but that means a big mac would be 5.00
a gallon of gas? about the same. the real feel would be in the wall mart/Burger King type business

And then the left would say 15 an hour isn't a "living wage" and increase it to $20 an hour. A Big Mac and gas would go to $7.50. Then they'd say we need $30 an hour.

Maybe government force to raise wages isn't the solution. Ya think?

I have no issue as an employer paying people what they are worth. I have an issue paying them what they are not worth.

get out of bed @0500
work 8 hours a day for others to profit is worth something more than 280.00 a week
with that stated it is one of the only views I am a blue dog on
Minimum wage is a joke
now that 15.00 should include any additional retirement and insurance
for instance if the employer is funding ins 3.00 an hour and kicking in 1.00 an hour for your 401k, then that hourly pay should be 11.00

So you're not willing to do that for at most a year? And more like six months.
There is this thing called paying your dues. And since you're liberal minded,I guess I should point out that this has nothing to do with unions.
You have to PROVE to your employer that you are worth more money!!
If you are of able mind and body,there is absolutely no reason you shouldnt have recieved a raise in your first six months. If not you're a lazy fuck with no work ethic.

 

[noose4]

If it takes 15.00 an hour to have a "living" wage, well I really dont have an issue with that except that really all your doing is raising the cost to build a widget, or grow a widget to a point in which the 8.00 an hour becomes 15.00 an hour it seems to me
What is a living wage?

One where the workforce doesnt need government welfare programs to subsidize their wages, and if the CEO and top execs of the widget making company made a few million less in compensation instead of making 200 times the average worker maybe the cost of widgets would not have to go up much.

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

What happens when employers build Widgets and don't pay a wage their employees can support their families on?

The taxpayer steps in and subsidizes food, housing and healthcare for that family. Employer gets to profit off of cheap widgets.....taxpayers make up the difference

Jeannie Coontz's column in TNYT yesterday had this interesting paragraph:

"In 1950, a young man, with or without a high school degree, would have found it much easier than it is today to get and keep a job in the auto industry. And in that year, according to Colin Gordon, a historian at the University of Iowa, the average autoworker could meet monthly mortgage payments on a median-priced home with just 13.4 percent of his take-home pay. Today a similar mortgage would claim more than twice that share of his monthly earnings."

And let's remember, this same young man was also most likely a member of the autoworker's union, so please no screeching from the right about how the unions have ruined the American dream.

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

If it takes 15.00 an hour to have a "living" wage, well I really dont have an issue with that except that really all your doing is raising the cost to build a widget, or grow a widget to a point in which the 8.00 an hour becomes 15.00 an hour it seems to me
What is a living wage?

One where the workforce doesnt need government welfare programs to subsidize their wages, and if the CEO and top execs of the widget making company made a few million less in compensation instead of making 200 times the average worker maybe the cost of widgets would not have to go up much.

Excellent point.
Here's a graphic to complement your comments. This article also explained the income disparity between your average top corporate CEO and your run-of-the-mill hedge fund manager:

"It was noted in 2006 that the top four hundred highest earning taxpayers in America kept eighteen times more income than the top four hundred in 1955 (Plutocracy Reborn, 2008). It has also been shown that the top five hedge-fund managers took home thirteen thousand times more income than the top five military leaders, and roughly forty-three times as much income as the top five corporate Chief Executives (Plutocracy Reborn, 2008)."

THIS IS WHY THERE IS NO LONGER A LIVING WAGE.

 

[JRK]

And then the left would say 15 an hour isn't a "living wage" and increase it to $20 an hour. A Big Mac and gas would go to $7.50. Then they'd say we need $30 an hour.

Maybe government force to raise wages isn't the solution. Ya think?

I have no issue as an employer paying people what they are worth. I have an issue paying them what they are not worth.

get out of bed @0500
work 8 hours a day for others to profit is worth something more than 280.00 a week
with that stated it is one of the only views I am a blue dog on
Minimum wage is a joke
now that 15.00 should include any additional retirement and insurance
for instance if the employer is funding ins 3.00 an hour and kicking in 1.00 an hour for your 401k, then that hourly pay should be 11.00

It is a joke only if you are earning substantially more than that for your employer. Even at minimum wage you are costing the employer additional costs for FICA, SUTA, FUTA, work comp, and, depending on the industry, general liability premiums. Some states impose varous other payroll taxes on top of that.

The kid hired at minimum wage to pick up shingles and other trash and be a go-fer for a roofing company, as of several years ago, cost his employer $17 and up per $100 of wages for work comp premiums alone. Those premiums have probably increased since then. Make the mandatory wage too high, and the roofer simply won't hire that kid at all. In any average business, an employer with 10 to 20 employees can pay, on average, between $7,000 and $10,000 per year in workers comp premiums, depending on the number of workers in risky positions. High risk jobs have much higher premiums. And in all states, work comp is the most strictly regulated insurance you will find.

When the economy was booming during most of the Bush years--we had near full employment in 2006 and 2007--the roofer hired those kids pretty often to train them to be roofers or to free up the experienced roofers to do all roofing instead of having to take time to do clean up. These days those kinds of training jobs are hard to come by as there are so many experienced workers out of work. Make the minimum wage too costly for employers to train new workers, and the market dries up even more for those just starting out.

Those cost are there at minimum wage
your build up rate for 8 an hour adds only the amount above that (within pennies)
for example your workmans comp is one number per hour no matter if you make 8 an hour or 50 an hour
simply put a buit up rate for 8 an hour maybe 25
you double that (16 an hour) and your built up rate will be not 50, it would be about 33
the same amount the wage went up withim pennies

Imagine the billions in tax dollars saved by doing this?
also in my opinion there would a trade off. higer wages for the employee by mandate would get a dollar for dollar cut in tax burden

How many millions would get off of govt help?

 

[JRK]

If it takes 15.00 an hour to have a "living" wage, well I really dont have an issue with that except that really all your doing is raising the cost to build a widget, or grow a widget to a point in which the 8.00 an hour becomes 15.00 an hour it seems to me
What is a living wage?

One where the workforce doesnt need government welfare programs to subsidize their wages, and if the CEO and top execs of the widget making company made a few million less in compensation instead of making 200 times the average worker maybe the cost of widgets would not have to go up much.

Let the free market bear that fruit
BUT
having a CEO making a base wage that much above the Avg employee is WRONG
with that said
1 million dollars is 10,000 for 100 people
But
most numbers your fed by the main stream media has stock options included
think about it
Base pay fpr most top execs is no where near what is reported

BUT
I do agree that more in line wages for top execs would bear fruit for those who build the widget

As a conservative I lean very far blue dog on these issues

 

[kaz]

You ever put a roof on? Hard work and worth more than minimum wage. About the only roofing comanies paying just minimum wage or less, are using illegals for their roofing crew. And the illegals will work for whatever.

The irony that the people who want illegal immigration are the ones whining about what they do to wages. So, if we secure the borders and it's not worth doing for $7.25, then companies will pay more to get the workers they need.

Liberal endlessly demand their way on issues to fix a problems the liberals created getting their way on others...

 

[Katzndogz]

Liberals believe that minimum wage should enable a 16 year old with his or her first job should be able to support a family of four.

 

[JRK]

Liberals believe that minimum wage should enable a 16 year old with his or her first job should be able to support a family of four.

The part about the illegals is very much true
Minimum wage is an item that as an adult the leberal stating that 8.25 an hour is the fix all (what ever it is) is the same as stating 7.50 an hour is mean. I mean 30.00 a week is not going to get these people off of the govt hand-outs
My claim has allways been if it takes 25,000 a year to get people off of the govt handout, that should be the minimum wage
it is that simple
that does not mean a siingle mother in Atlanta with 5 kids should be getting 50,000 a year to work burger king.
simply put there is a number in which most could be removed from govt handouts. that number should be the minimum wage and the corporations who (people) paid those wages should get tax relief dollar for dollar to get those people off of govt hand-outs

 

[DiamondDave]

Liberals believe that minimum wage should enable a 16 year old with his or her first job should be able to support a family of four.

The part about the illegals is very much true
Minimum wage is an item that as an adult the leberal stating that 8.25 an hour is the fix all (what ever it is) is the same as stating 7.50 an hour is mean. I mean 30.00 a week is not going to get these people off of the govt hand-outs
My claim has allways been if it takes 25,000 a year to get people off of the govt handout, that should be the minimum wage
it is that simple

1) If you have to take care of yourself and/or a family.. you best be working more than 30 hours
2) If your pay is not enough and you are old enough to be supporting a family, you best be doing something to improve your skills and put yourself in demand.. else see #1
3) The federal government should not be handing out or subsidizing anyway

You are the only one responsible for your personal needs... whether that you think it is 'mean or not is irrelevant

 

[JRK]

Liberals believe that minimum wage should enable a 16 year old with his or her first job should be able to support a family of four.

The part about the illegals is very much true
Minimum wage is an item that as an adult the leberal stating that 8.25 an hour is the fix all (what ever it is) is the same as stating 7.50 an hour is mean. I mean 30.00 a week is not going to get these people off of the govt hand-outs
My claim has allways been if it takes 25,000 a year to get people off of the govt handout, that should be the minimum wage
it is that simple

1) If you have to take care of yourself and/or a family.. you best be working more than 30 hours
2) If your pay is not enough and you are old enough to be supporting a family, you best be doing something to improve your skills and put yourself in demand.. else see #1
3) The federal government should not be handing out or subsidizing anyway

You are the only one responsible for your personal needs... whether that you think it is 'mean or not is irrelevant

The problem is that they do
and in some cases I have no issue with helping those who cannot help them selves, very fewm but some
if the tax payer is funding a person who works 40 hours a week making 15,000 a year for ins and food stamps, whose fault is that?
we the consumer or we the tax payer is picking up that bill
eliminate the tax payer and insert the consumer

How many billions would be saved and how many people would be forced off of the govt tit if we had a minimum wage that included any and all benefits that was lets say 25,000 a year?
think about it, we pay either way

 

[DiamondDave]

The part about the illegals is very much true
Minimum wage is an item that as an adult the leberal stating that 8.25 an hour is the fix all (what ever it is) is the same as stating 7.50 an hour is mean. I mean 30.00 a week is not going to get these people off of the govt hand-outs
My claim has allways been if it takes 25,000 a year to get people off of the govt handout, that should be the minimum wage
it is that simple

1) If you have to take care of yourself and/or a family.. you best be working more than 30 hours
2) If your pay is not enough and you are old enough to be supporting a family, you best be doing something to improve your skills and put yourself in demand.. else see #1
3) The federal government should not be handing out or subsidizing anyway

You are the only one responsible for your personal needs... whether that you think it is 'mean or not is irrelevant

The problem is that they do
and in some cases I have no issue with helping those who cannot help them selves, very fewm but some
if the tax payer is funding a person who works 40 hours a week making 15,000 a year for ins and food stamps, whose fault is that?
we the consumer or we the tax payer is picking up that bill
eliminate the tax payer and insert the consumer

How many billions would be saved and how many people would be forced off of the govt tit if we had a minimum wage that included any and all benefits that was lets say 25,000 a year?
think about it, we pay either way

Can't help themselves is much different than WON'T help themselves

Now all the sudden unless someone can support a family of 4 on 40 hours without any effort from themselves to better themselves, they need a handout.. and to that I say BULLSHIT

You need to work 60, 70, 80, or 100 hours a week.. SO BE IT.. we had to in our younger years.. suck it up and drive on.. and if it gets to you, MAKE YOURSELF MORE VALUABLE.. train, learn, do extra, change jobs, sit with a maintenance manual during your break instead of texting someone, ask for and show that you are ready for more responsibility, ask what you can do to help the business... the list goes on

Minimum wage was and is supposed to be a STARTER wage for entering the work force.. not something to support yourself and a family...

minimum wage for someone 16 or 18 and just starting working.. maybe living at home.. maybe sharing a studio apartment with 1 or 2 people... maybe only renting a basement room in someone's house... it is not to make a living.. if you are 24 with a wife and 4 kids and only making minimum wage, that is YOUR problem, not the system's....

 

[JRK]

1) If you have to take care of yourself and/or a family.. you best be working more than 30 hours
2) If your pay is not enough and you are old enough to be supporting a family, you best be doing something to improve your skills and put yourself in demand.. else see #1
3) The federal government should not be handing out or subsidizing anyway

You are the only one responsible for your personal needs... whether that you think it is 'mean or not is irrelevant

The problem is that they do
and in some cases I have no issue with helping those who cannot help them selves, very fewm but some
if the tax payer is funding a person who works 40 hours a week making 15,000 a year for ins and food stamps, whose fault is that?
we the consumer or we the tax payer is picking up that bill
eliminate the tax payer and insert the consumer

How many billions would be saved and how many people would be forced off of the govt tit if we had a minimum wage that included any and all benefits that was lets say 25,000 a year?
think about it, we pay either way

Can't help themselves is much different than WON'T help themselves

Now all the sudden unless someone can support a family of 4 on 40 hours without any effort from themselves to better themselves, they need a handout.. and to that I say BULLSHIT

You need to work 60, 70, 80, or 100 hours a week.. SO BE IT.. we had to in our younger years.. suck it up and drive on.. and if it gets to you, MAKE YOURSELF MORE VALUABLE.. train, learn, do extra, change jobs, sit with a maintenance manual during your break instead of texting someone, ask for and show that you are ready for more responsibility, ask what you can do to help the business... the list goes on

Minimum wage was and is supposed to be a STARTER wage for entering the work force.. not something to support yourself and a family...

minimum wage for someone 16 or 18 and just starting working.. maybe living at home.. maybe sharing a studio apartment with 1 or 2 people... maybe only renting a basement room in someone's house... it is not to make a living.. if you are 24 with a wife and 4 kids and only making minimum wage, that is YOUR problem, not the system's....

Again if a person is workig 40 hours a week, doig it the right way, we as a society should be paying that person some wage that eliminates govt handouts with a cap
that is all I am saying
I did it the same way you did and have been doing all my life
my home has not seen me in over 20 years because I cannot make a living there. Wages for logging and workig cows or at the saw-mill do not pay enough to have anything without husband and wife making it happen
my ex took the easy way out.
point being we the tax payer or we the consumer are paying for it. If that person is doing it the right way there should be no reason we should not be doing the right thing to a point either

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Liberals believe that minimum wage should enable a 16 year old with his or her first job should be able to support a family of four.

Exactly. The sad thing is? Thats sometimes the case.

 

[DiamondDave]

The problem is that they do
and in some cases I have no issue with helping those who cannot help them selves, very fewm but some
if the tax payer is funding a person who works 40 hours a week making 15,000 a year for ins and food stamps, whose fault is that?
we the consumer or we the tax payer is picking up that bill
eliminate the tax payer and insert the consumer

How many billions would be saved and how many people would be forced off of the govt tit if we had a minimum wage that included any and all benefits that was lets say 25,000 a year?
think about it, we pay either way

Can't help themselves is much different than WON'T help themselves

Now all the sudden unless someone can support a family of 4 on 40 hours without any effort from themselves to better themselves, they need a handout.. and to that I say BULLSHIT

You need to work 60, 70, 80, or 100 hours a week.. SO BE IT.. we had to in our younger years.. suck it up and drive on.. and if it gets to you, MAKE YOURSELF MORE VALUABLE.. train, learn, do extra, change jobs, sit with a maintenance manual during your break instead of texting someone, ask for and show that you are ready for more responsibility, ask what you can do to help the business... the list goes on

Minimum wage was and is supposed to be a STARTER wage for entering the work force.. not something to support yourself and a family...

minimum wage for someone 16 or 18 and just starting working.. maybe living at home.. maybe sharing a studio apartment with 1 or 2 people... maybe only renting a basement room in someone's house... it is not to make a living.. if you are 24 with a wife and 4 kids and only making minimum wage, that is YOUR problem, not the system's....

Again if a person is workig 40 hours a week, doig it the right way, we as a society should be paying that person some wage that eliminates govt handouts with a cap
that is all I am saying
I did it the same way you did and have been doing all my life
my home has not seen me in over 20 years because I cannot make a living there. Wages for logging and workig cows or at the saw-mill do not pay enough to have anything without husband and wife making it happen
my ex took the easy way out.
point being we the tax payer or we the consumer are paying for it. If that person is doing it the right way there should be no reason we should not be doing the right thing to a point either

No.. we should not.. because it is that person's CHOICE to only work 40 when it may take them 80 to get by working for a cheaper wage... they don't just get to sit back and work 40 and wait for nanny government or society to pick up the things they need...

If somehow this person has the skills equivalent to a burger flipper, they do not deserve to make 15 an hour or whatever.. that is utterly ridiculous... and with a lesser wage, it is not OWED To them to just make do on 40 hours... best get that 2nd or 3rd job, or up their skills