FACTS on Dubya's great recession

[Dad2three]

So, AS I POSITED, regulator failure (mainly Dubya) caused the subprime crisis!

Not as you posited.

Bubbles happened all around the world. A bubble in Spain or Canada doesn't happen because of deregulation in the US. It pours fuel on the fire in the US, but it doesn't cause a housing bubble in Ireland.

That's also true of the CRA or the GSEs. They too were not the cause of the meltdown. Both, at best, were minor reasons, behind Wall Street and deregulation. However, all pale compared to the Fed, the institution that has the most influence on the price of credit on the planet.

yes for sure and the Fed was heavily backed up by Fan/Fred, truly massive lib organizations designed to get millions into homes the free market said they could not afford! Liberals overlook the obvious to parrot their beloved anti-business Marxism.

More nonsense from someone getting his economic advise from guys like Rushblo, Insannity and Cry Baby Beck, 3 guys barely making it out of H/S...

 

[Dad2three]

Do yourself a favor and just shut the fuck up

Got it, You are to ignorant to add up 2+2....

I take it back.

Please keep confirming you're as dumb as Paul Krugman who also has no idea what a subprime mortgage is

Subprimes was the crap Dubya REQUIRED F/F to purchase

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Not as you posited.

Bubbles happened all around the world. A bubble in Spain or Canada doesn't happen because of deregulation in the US. It pours fuel on the fire in the US, but it doesn't cause a housing bubble in Ireland.

That's also true of the CRA or the GSEs. They too were not the cause of the meltdown. Both, at best, were minor reasons, behind Wall Street and deregulation. However, all pale compared to the Fed, the institution that has the most influence on the price of credit on the planet.

yes for sure and the Fed was heavily backed up by Fan/Fred, truly massive lib organizations designed to get millions into homes the free market said they could not afford! Liberals overlook the obvious to parrot their beloved anti-business Marxism.

More nonsense from someone getting his economic advise from guys like Rushblo, Insannity and Cry Baby Beck, 3 guys barely making it out of H/S...

you mean the Fed was not heavily backed up by Fan/Fred, truly massive lib organizations designed to get millions into homes the free market said they could not afford! Liberals overlook the obvious to parrot their beloved anti-business Marxism.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Not as you posited.

Bubbles happened all around the world. A bubble in Spain or Canada doesn't happen because of deregulation in the US. It pours fuel on the fire in the US, but it doesn't cause a housing bubble in Ireland.

That's also true of the CRA or the GSEs. They too were not the cause of the meltdown. Both, at best, were minor reasons, behind Wall Street and deregulation. However, all pale compared to the Fed, the institution that has the most influence on the price of credit on the planet.

yes for sure and the Fed was heavily backed up by Fan/Fred, truly massive lib organizations designed to get millions into homes the free market said they could not afford! Liberals overlook the obvious to parrot their beloved anti-business Marxism.

More nonsense from someone getting his economic advise from guys like Rushblo, Insannity and Cry Baby Beck, 3 guys barely making it out of H/S...

so far as I know Rush agrees exactly with Milton Friedman. If you see a difference please say what it is or admit once again that, as a liberal, you lack the IQ to support what you say!

 

[Toro]

So, AS I POSITED, regulator failure (mainly Dubya) caused the subprime crisis!

Not as you posited.

Bubbles happened all around the world. A bubble in Spain or Canada doesn't happen because of deregulation in the US. It pours fuel on the fire in the US, but it doesn't cause a housing bubble in Ireland.

That's also true of the CRA or the GSEs. They too were not the cause of the meltdown. Both, at best, were minor reasons, behind Wall Street and deregulation. However, all pale compared to the Fed, the institution that has the most influence on the price of credit on the planet.

MORE bullshit from the (NOT) right winger from Canada

Sorry, I've shown, OVER AND over that CRA , GSE's, DEREGULATION had almost ZERO to do with Dubya's great subprime crisis in the US AS the Banksters created aa WORLD WIDE CREDIT BUBBLE. You hang onto the false posit that it was mainly the fed reserve instead of Dubya's policies as outlined!

You have not shown that "banksters" created a worldwide bubble. Now, you're saying that you didn't show deregulation caused the bubble, but you argued earlier that it did. Or you didn't understand what was in your link earlier. You also said that Canada wasn't in a bubble to back up your argument even though Canada is as bubble-like as the US.

Clearly, you are interested only in bashing Bush and advancing an ideological agenda.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Got it, You are to ignorant to add up 2+2....

I take it back.

Please keep confirming you're as dumb as Paul Krugman who also has no idea what a subprime mortgage is

Subprimes was the crap Dubya REQUIRED F/F to purchase

sounds very interventionist which is why few thought of Bush as a conservative. He got elected because he appealed to independents and liberals in significant numbers.

 

[Dad2three]

yes for sure and the Fed was heavily backed up by Fan/Fred, truly massive lib organizations designed to get millions into homes the free market said they could not afford! Liberals overlook the obvious to parrot their beloved anti-business Marxism.

More nonsense from someone getting his economic advise from guys like Rushblo, Insannity and Cry Baby Beck, 3 guys barely making it out of H/S...

you mean the Fed was not heavily backed up by Fan/Fred, truly massive lib organizations designed to get millions into homes the free market said they could not afford! Liberals overlook the obvious to parrot their beloved anti-business Marxism.

You mean Fredd/Fann that had been around for 70 years without issues UNTIL Dubya? And F/F that lost market share to PRIVATE UNREGULATED BANKSTER (SECURITAZION, PLS)?

PLEASE tell me the laws that Banksters followed that required NINJA (NINA) loans? Pretty please? WORLD WIDE? LOL

 

[Dad2three]

I take it back.

Please keep confirming you're as dumb as Paul Krugman who also has no idea what a subprime mortgage is

Subprimes was the crap Dubya REQUIRED F/F to purchase

sounds very interventionist which is why few thought of Bush as a conservative. He got elected because he appealed to independents and liberals in significant numbers.

You mean the part of Dubya's plan that rewarded his 'base' (as he called them) , AND the part where he ignored regulator warnings that started in 2004? Fought ALL 50 states saying feds rule on predatory lenders? Perhaps the rule allowing the 5 investment Banksters to more than triple their leverage in 2004? ALL expecting THE 'MARKETS' TO SELF REGULATE?


Regulators and policymakers enabled this process at virtually every turn. Part of the reason they failed to understand the housing bubble was willful ignorance: they bought into the argument that the market would equilibrate itself. In particular, financial actors and regulatory officials both believed that secondary and tertiary markets could effectively control risk through pricing.


http://www.tobinproject.org/sites/tobinproject.org/files/assets/Fligstein_Catalyst of Disaster_0.pdf

 

[Dad2three]

Not as you posited.

Bubbles happened all around the world. A bubble in Spain or Canada doesn't happen because of deregulation in the US. It pours fuel on the fire in the US, but it doesn't cause a housing bubble in Ireland.

That's also true of the CRA or the GSEs. They too were not the cause of the meltdown. Both, at best, were minor reasons, behind Wall Street and deregulation. However, all pale compared to the Fed, the institution that has the most influence on the price of credit on the planet.

MORE bullshit from the (NOT) right winger from Canada

Sorry, I've shown, OVER AND over that CRA , GSE's, DEREGULATION had almost ZERO to do with Dubya's great subprime crisis in the US AS the Banksters created aa WORLD WIDE CREDIT BUBBLE. You hang onto the false posit that it was mainly the fed reserve instead of Dubya's policies as outlined!

You have not shown that "banksters" created a worldwide bubble. Now, you're saying that you didn't show deregulation caused the bubble, but you argued earlier that it did. Or you didn't understand what was in your link earlier. You also said that Canada wasn't in a bubble to back up your argument even though Canada is as bubble-like as the US.

Clearly, you are interested only in bashing Bush and advancing an ideological agenda.

Got it MORE right wing garbage from the (NOT) right winger


I'll go slowly Bubba

My POSIT (regardless of ANY links I post (THEIR beliefs take up with them!!!) , is and ALWAYS has been, DUBYA REGULATOR FAILURE WAS THE PRIMARY CAUSE OF THE SUBPRIME CRISIS


Not lack of regulation, OR your premise that the federal was the driver or that CRA or the GSE's had ANYTHING but minor roles in the BUSH SUBPRIME CRISIS

Canada, DIDN'T have the bubble AND bust like MUCH of the rest of the world experienced in the 2000's. PERIOD. IF you 'believe' Canada will have ANYTHING like the bust Dubya's subprime crisis caused you aren't just a ideologue you're a fucking moron too!

 

[Toro]

If you think Bush required the GSEs to increase subprime loans, you're as stupid as Shootspeeders who thinks Obama raises the price of stamps.

 

[Dad2three]

yes for sure and the Fed was heavily backed up by Fan/Fred, truly massive lib organizations designed to get millions into homes the free market said they could not afford! Liberals overlook the obvious to parrot their beloved anti-business Marxism.

More nonsense from someone getting his economic advise from guys like Rushblo, Insannity and Cry Baby Beck, 3 guys barely making it out of H/S...

so far as I know Rush agrees exactly with Milton Friedman. If you see a difference please say what it is or admit once again that, as a liberal, you lack the IQ to support what you say!

Sure he does

“The Bush tax cuts led to 50 consecutive months of job growth…It’s demonstrably proven that tax cuts increase revenues” – Rush Limbaugh



"If a tax cut increases government revenues, you haven't cut taxes enough." --Milton Friedman


Nobel laureate economist Milton Friedman agreed the tax cuts would reduce tax revenues and result in intolerable deficits, though he supported them as a means to restrain federal spending. Friedman characterized the reduced government tax revenue as "cutting their allowance".

What Every American Wants - WSJ



Bush CEA Chair Mankiw: Claim That Broad-Based Income Tax Cuts Increase Revenue Is Not "Credible," Capital Income Tax Cuts Also Don't Pay For Themselves

Bush-Appointed Federal Reserve Chair Bernanke: "I Don't Think That As A General Rule Tax Cuts Pay For Themselves."


Bush Treasury Secretary Paulson: "As A General Rule, I Don't Believe That Tax Cuts Pay For Themselves."

Bush OMB Director Nussle: "Some Say That [The Tax Cut] Was A Total Loss. Some Say They Totally Pay For Themselves. It's Neither Extreme."


Bush CEA Chairman Lazear: "As A General Rule, We Do Not Think Tax Cuts Pay For Themselves."


Bush Economic Adviser Viard: "Federal Revenue Is Lower Today Than It Would Have Been Without The Tax Cuts."


Bush Treasury Official Carroll: "We Do Not Think Tax Cuts Pay For Themselves."


Reagan Chief Economist Feldstein: "It's Not That You Get More Revenue By Lowering Tax Rates, It Is That You Don't Lose As Much."

Feldstein In 1986: "Hyperbole" That Reagan Tax Cut "Would Actually Increase Tax Revenue."

Conservative Economist Holtz-Eakin: "No Serious Research Evidence" Suggests Tax Cuts Pay For Themselves."

Tax Foundation's Prante: "A Stretch" To Claim "Cutting Capital Gains Taxes Raises Tax Revenues."


LIKE I SAID, BARELY MADE IT THROUGH HIGH SKROOL THAT IDIOT!

 

[Dad2three]

If you think Bush required the GSEs to increase subprime loans, you're as stupid as Shootspeeders who thinks Obama raises the price of stamps.

No dumbass, HE just upped their REQUIRED 'goals' on affordable housing in late 2004, WHEN the market was flooded (around 50% of ALL mortgages 2005-2007) with SUBPRIMES!!!

 

[Dad2three]

If you think Bush required the GSEs to increase subprime loans, you're as stupid as Shootspeeders who thinks Obama raises the price of stamps.

HUD DATA SHOWS FANNIE MAE AND FREDDIE MAC HAVE TRAILED THE INDUSTRY IN PROVIDING AFFORDABLE HOUSING IN 44 STATES

This data covering 1999-2002 shows that combined, the GSEs have lagged behind the primary market in 44 states in their commitment to provide affordable housing opportunities for low- and moderate-income families.

"While the GSEs met the affordable housing goals in 2002, they must further utilize their entrepreneurial talents and power in the marketplace to genuinely lead the mortgage finance industry as Congress intended," said HUD Secretary Alphonso Jackson. "HUD recently proposed new housing goals, which over the next four years, would simply push the GSEs to do what is expected of them-helping low- and moderate-income families at least at the same percentage levels as primary market lenders."

HUD estimates that if the GSEs had matched the overall single-family market during this period, they would have acquired an additional 470,000 single-family loans for low- and moderate-income families. Focusing only on home purchase loans, if the GSEs had matched the market, they would have acquired an additional 264,000 loans for these families. Of these 264,000 home loans, approximately 94,000 would have been for first-time homebuyers with less-than-area-median income.



HUD Archives: HUD DATA SHOWS FANNIE MAE AND FREDDIE MAC HAVE TRAILED THE INDUSTRY IN PROVIDING AFFORDABLE HOUSING IN 44 STATES
New regulations will increase mortgage financing for homebuyers and underserved communities

 

[Toro]

MORE bullshit from the (NOT) right winger from Canada

Sorry, I've shown, OVER AND over that CRA , GSE's, DEREGULATION had almost ZERO to do with Dubya's great subprime crisis in the US AS the Banksters created aa WORLD WIDE CREDIT BUBBLE. You hang onto the false posit that it was mainly the fed reserve instead of Dubya's policies as outlined!

You have not shown that "banksters" created a worldwide bubble. Now, you're saying that you didn't show deregulation caused the bubble, but you argued earlier that it did. Or you didn't understand what was in your link earlier. You also said that Canada wasn't in a bubble to back up your argument even though Canada is as bubble-like as the US.

Clearly, you are interested only in bashing Bush and advancing an ideological agenda.

Got it MORE right wing garbage from the (NOT) right winger


I'll go slowly Bubba

My POSIT (regardless of ANY links I post (THEIR beliefs take up with them!!!) , is and ALWAYS has been, DUBYA REGULATOR FAILURE WAS THE PRIMARY CAUSE OF THE SUBPRIME CRISIS


Not lack of regulation, OR your premise that the federal was the driver or that CRA or the GSE's had ANYTHING but minor roles in the BUSH SUBPRIME CRISIS

Canada, DIDN'T have the bubble AND bust like MUCH of the rest of the world experienced in the 2000's. PERIOD. IF you 'believe' Canada will have ANYTHING like the bust Dubya's subprime crisis caused you aren't just a ideologue you're a fucking moron too!

Douchebag2three

I didn't say that Canada had a bust. Canada DID and still does have bubble. That it hasn't collapsed doesn't mean it doesn't have a bubble. Nor do I expect the unwind to be anything like what happened in the US since the financial structure in Canada is different than I'm the US.

Your inability to reconcile that "much" of the world experienced a boom and bust in housing with US deregulation is to be expected of a leftard hack infected with Bush Derangement Syndrome.

 

[Dad2three]

You have not shown that "banksters" created a worldwide bubble. Now, you're saying that you didn't show deregulation caused the bubble, but you argued earlier that it did. Or you didn't understand what was in your link earlier. You also said that Canada wasn't in a bubble to back up your argument even though Canada is as bubble-like as the US.

Clearly, you are interested only in bashing Bush and advancing an ideological agenda.

Got it MORE right wing garbage from the (NOT) right winger


I'll go slowly Bubba

My POSIT (regardless of ANY links I post (THEIR beliefs take up with them!!!) , is and ALWAYS has been, DUBYA REGULATOR FAILURE WAS THE PRIMARY CAUSE OF THE SUBPRIME CRISIS


Not lack of regulation, OR your premise that the federal was the driver or that CRA or the GSE's had ANYTHING but minor roles in the BUSH SUBPRIME CRISIS

Canada, DIDN'T have the bubble AND bust like MUCH of the rest of the world experienced in the 2000's. PERIOD. IF you 'believe' Canada will have ANYTHING like the bust Dubya's subprime crisis caused you aren't just a ideologue you're a fucking moron too!

Douchebag2three

I didn't say that Canada had a bust. Canada DID and still does have bubble. That it hasn't collapsed doesn't mean it doesn't have a bubble. Nor do I expect the unwind to be anything like what happened in the US since the financial structure in Canada is different than I'm the US.

Your inability to reconcile that "much" of the world experienced a boom and bust in housing with US deregulation is to be expected of a leftard hack infected with Bush Derangement Syndrome.

Got it, the fucktard of the 'NOT right winger comes out, lol

I've pointed out in GREAT detail the Dubya subprime crisis was CAUSED BY DUBYA and hgis regulator actions!

YOU want to hold onto a MYTH that it started in 1998 or sooner, despite what the crisis commission and federal reserve data shows, lol

YOU lied about what Krugman said (and never addressed the actual FACTS presented)


YOU ignore the increase in the fed rates where subprime loans STILL were growing, AS the charts and link showed


The economists’ conclusion: “In the context of our model and according to this evidence, regulatory rather than monetary-policy failures are largely to blame for the occurrence and the severity of the Great Recession.”

Was it easy money or easy regulation that caused the housing bubble? | AEIdeas

YOUR ENTIRE PREMISE IS BULLSHIT!

 

[Toro]

You've shown only that you don't understand the nature of bubbles. You have not shown how regulatory changes in the US could cause bubbles in multiple countries. You've shown an ignorance of what has happened in other countries.

That's because you are wrong.

By their own words, the Fed implicitly acknowledges their role in the housing crisis. Fed members today talk about setting monetary policy that doesn't destabilize asset markets in ways they never did in the past.

 

[TooTall]

Maybe you find the facts on the Dear wonderful leader Obambam great recession

http://www.usmessageboard.com/economy/361483-headed-for-a-recession.html#post9326126

"We crashed the economy but we don't like the way you tried to fix it." - GOP.

Reagan GDP dipped 5 times in 3 years. AND?

I am glad you mentioned GDP.

America’s economy has not shrunk since Q2 of 2009. Yet, if the Congressional Budget Office’s estimates of just 1.4% real GDP growth this year prove true, America will have experienced its worst four consecutive growth years of GDP in the Bureau of Economic Analysis’ data going back to 1930.

Looking at the economy in 10-year increments starting from 1948 (when declines from wartime spending had ended), averaging GDP’s annual growth percentage shows the following:

Even if 2008 (-0.3%) and 2009’s (-3.1%) negative annual GDP percentages are dropped (something undone for the other periods) and only the 2010-13 period is averaged, the result is just 1.95% – still over a full percentage point below the previous decade’s.

 

[Rshermr]

Maybe you find the facts on the Dear wonderful leader Obambam great recession

http://www.usmessageboard.com/economy/361483-headed-for-a-recession.html#post9326126

"We crashed the economy but we don't like the way you tried to fix it." - GOP.

Reagan GDP dipped 5 times in 3 years. AND?

I am glad you mentioned GDP.

America’s economy has not shrunk since Q2 of 2009. Yet, if the Congressional Budget Office’s estimates of just 1.4% real GDP growth this year prove true, America will have experienced its worst four consecutive growth years of GDP in the Bureau of Economic Analysis’ data going back to 1930.

Looking at the economy in 10-year increments starting from 1948 (when declines from wartime spending had ended), averaging GDP’s annual growth percentage shows the following:

Even if 2008 (-0.3%) and 2009’s (-3.1%) negative annual GDP percentages are dropped (something undone for the other periods) and only the 2010-13 period is averaged, the result is just 1.95% – still over a full percentage point below the previous decade’s.

Right. Trying to recover from the worst recession since the great depression. Suggestions???

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

"We crashed the economy but we don't like the way you tried to fix it." - GOP.

Reagan GDP dipped 5 times in 3 years. AND?

I am glad you mentioned GDP.

America’s economy has not shrunk since Q2 of 2009. Yet, if the Congressional Budget Office’s estimates of just 1.4% real GDP growth this year prove true, America will have experienced its worst four consecutive growth years of GDP in the Bureau of Economic Analysis’ data going back to 1930.

Looking at the economy in 10-year increments starting from 1948 (when declines from wartime spending had ended), averaging GDP’s annual growth percentage shows the following:

Even if 2008 (-0.3%) and 2009’s (-3.1%) negative annual GDP percentages are dropped (something undone for the other periods) and only the 2010-13 period is averaged, the result is just 1.95% – still over a full percentage point below the previous decade’s.

Right. Trying to recover from the worst recession since the great depression. Suggestions???

OMG of course!! Eliminate corporate taxes so our corps will move back here. THe highest taxes rate in the world make it mandatory to move out. Thats another great liberal policy!!
Capitalism would have recovered economy in a year or less.

 

[Dad2three]

You've shown only that you don't understand the nature of bubbles. You have not shown how regulatory changes in the US could cause bubbles in multiple countries. You've shown an ignorance of what has happened in other countries.

That's because you are wrong.

By their own words, the Fed implicitly acknowledges their role in the housing crisis. Fed members today talk about setting monetary policy that doesn't destabilize asset markets in ways they never did in the past.

Got it dickweed you'll stick with AEI talking points despite EVIDENCE that Dubya policy allowed the subprime bubble to explode in the US as the Banksters created a WORLD WIDE CREDIT BUBBLE

The basic structure of the adjustable-rate mortgages that lenders used to grow the subprime market was premised on continued house appreciation. Once the housing bubble peaked subprime ARM loans suddenly became extremely prone to default.



NOT THE FED


I noted earlier that the most important source of lower initial monthly payments, which allowed more people to enter the housing market and bid for properties, was not the general level of short-term interest rates, but the increasing use of more exotic types of mortgages and the associated decline of underwriting standards. That conclusion suggests that the best response to the housing bubble would have been regulatory, not monetary. Stronger regulation and supervision aimed at problems with underwriting practices and lenders' risk management would have been a more effective and surgical approach to constraining the housing bubble than a general increase in interest rates. Moreover, regulators, supervisors, and the private sector could have more effectively addressed building risk concentrations and inadequate risk-management practices without necessarily having had to make a judgment about the sustainability of house price increases.

Chairman Ben S. Bernanke

Monetary Policy and the Housing Bubble

FRB: Speech--Bernanke, Monetary Policy and the Housing Bubble--January 3, 2010



Did the Fed Cause the housing Bubble?

According to research by Ambrogio Cesa-Bianchi and Alessandro Rebucci, the housing bubble was caused by "regulatory rather than monetary-policy failures":

Economist's View: Did the Fed Cause the housing Bubble?