Fascist America! Great job BUSH VOTERS

[jones]

Eric, listen. Your first post on this thread disrespected Bry, just because he used the word "YO".
Now you are saying he is the one coming in here disrespecting us, actually he was giving actual constructive critisism.

Bry, thank you for your reply to me. When I posted this topic name, I was mostly trying NOT to disrespect certain partys. could have been, "great job republicans, or conservitives" . I actually do respect some of their opinions.
BUT! the whole trend that every comment from the "leftist" or "democrat" community is labeled , theory, propaganda, or tactics to advance our cause. <---this, my friends, is pissing me off.

We are actually trying to bring things to light that some people may miss if they are hanging around a bunch of haters like jeff, yes i said it. For example, I posted a link to kennedy's opinions. A logical person would actually try to find the official Whitehouse reply, or a reply from kennedy's oppenents.

Bry put it best: True to form, you piped up in defence of the queen's english and ignored the substantive information.

Anyway, Bry. You pointed out two problems w/ america. 1st problem very much needs to be discussed in american politics today. 2nd Yes, one thing i would like to point out is that not many people took a look at the Bushs' history. Dubya's own rise to power, in addition to where and how the Bush familly tree got its power. It tells a story. Sometimes before a story ends, you already have know whats going to happen.

 

[jones]

Originally posted by jones
Eric, listen. Your first post on this thread disrespected Bry, just because he used the word "YO".
Now you are saying he is the one coming in here disrespecting us, actually he was giving actual constructive critisism.

Bry, thank you for your reply to me. When I posted this topic name, I was mostly trying NOT to disrespect certain partys. could have been, "great job republicans, or conservitives" . I actually do respect some of their opinions.
BUT! the whole trend that every comment from the "leftist" or "democrat" community is labeled , theory, propaganda, or tactics to advance our cause. <---this, my friends, is pissing me off. And oops! I take your comment to heart, i realize now that any headline like "facist america.." is sounding like leftist lies to many people. aka, they ingnore the information. Even I could do this if say, someone called Clinton/Gore what i proposed here.
So, Point taken

We are actually trying to bring things to light that some people may miss if they are hanging around a bunch of haters like jeff, yes i said it. For example, I posted a link to kennedy's opinions. A logical person would actually try to find the official Whitehouse reply, or a reply from kennedy's oppenents.

Bry put it best: True to form, you piped up in defence of the queen's english and ignored the substantive information.

Anyway, Bry. You pointed out two problems w/ america. 1st problem very much needs to be discussed in american politics today. 2nd Yes, one thing i would like to point out is that not many people took a look at the Bushs' history. Dubya's own rise to power, in addition to where and how the Bush familly tree got its power. It tells a story. Sometimes before a story ends, you already have know whats going to happen.

 

[eric]

No you listen, don't you dare lecture me. Lets look at the title of the thread you started "Fascist America! Great job BUSH Voters", now of course this was not meant to piss people off. You were not looking for debate, just argument. Talk about respect. Furthermore what do you know about Fascism other than what you read in books? Have you or anyone in your family ever lived in Fascist state? Well my family has and they thank god every day for being able to live here. I think they are in a better position to judge.

 

[jones]

Originally posted by eric
No you listen, don't you dare lecture me. Lets look at the title of the thread you started "Fascist America! Great job BUSH Voters", now of course this was not meant to piss people off. You were not looking for debate, just argument. Talk about respect. Furthermore what do you know about Fascism other than what you read in books? Have you or anyone in your family ever lived in Fascist state? Well my family has and they thank god every day for being able to live here. I think they are in a better position to judge.

How am I not trying to debate? I explained my point/argument. Do you have opposing points that can be weighed against mine?

 

[Bry]

Originally posted by eric
Yes bry respect is a two way street, but when I come to your home I show the first sign of respect. You have come here not the other way around. I have no problem with alternative views, what I do have a problem with are statements like "I wonder if we can bring any respectability to this thread". It is confrontational and demeaning statements like this that tick people off. If you want to debate issues in a respectful way then we will have no problem getting along. I respect everyone's point of view, but when people start with the “I am smarter or more educated crap”, I put them in their place. I could easily look down on many people because of my position, but I do not, I treat people with dignity and respect. Now if you would like to start clean and debate the issues I am game.

When I put the phrase "I wonder if we can bring some respectability to this thread", I had to think about it first. I decided it was in line because it was a response to the title of the thread, which as you point out in your response to jones, is over the top. It's just not a good way to start a conversation here. I appreciate your peace offering, and I accept, but I think this board has a problem: some people feel like they are at home here, and it seems that they are quick to get defensive. I think that it's fine to feel like we are among friends, but we should try not to loose sight of the fact that this is, after all, a board for political debate. At least I think it is, maybe that's not the case. Anyway, if this is to be a successful board, it seems to me that we should try to avoid feelings of a community, at least as concerns new members. After all, they don't know they're entering a community, they think they're entering a political brawl like you would find at Yahoo. I know I was surprised at the responses here. I almost didn't com back after the first one. I'm still not convinced I'll stay just because there aren't enough points of view being expressed to make it interesting for me. But I've also seen a lot of people get chased off by defensive people who feel like someone just walked into their living room and started spouting radical political views without even introducing themselves.

Just some observations. What do you think?

 

[Joan]

in addition to where and how the Bush familly tree got its power. It tells a story.


We can also counter with - have you looked at the Kennedy family tree and seen how they got their power???

 

[Bry]

Originally posted by Joan
in addition to where and how the Bush familly tree got its power. It tells a story.


We can also counter with - have you looked at the Kennedy family tree and seen how they got their power???

Good point, Joan. I don't like the Kennedys much either. But I'd sure put up a collection of JFKs observations against a book of Dubya's observations any time!!!

 

[Joan]

Well now, I'm not too sure about that - most of JFK's observations were of someones body other than his wife. I highly doubt that Dubya would be guilty of that. Call him what you want - but I think he is a wonderful family man.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Bry
When I put the phrase "I wonder if we can bring some respectability to this thread", I had to think about it first. I decided it was in line because it was a response to the title of the thread, which as you point out in your response to jones, is over the top. It's just not a good way to start a conversation here. I appreciate your peace offering, and I accept, but I think this board has a problem: some people feel like they are at home here, and it seems that they are quick to get defensive. I think that it's fine to feel like we are among friends, but we should try not to loose sight of the fact that this is, after all, a board for political debate. At least I think it is, maybe that's not the case. Anyway, if this is to be a successful board, it seems to me that we should try to avoid feelings of a community, at least as concerns new members. After all, they don't know they're entering a community, they think they're entering a political brawl like you would find at Yahoo. I know I was surprised at the responses here. I almost didn't com back after the first one. I'm still not convinced I'll stay just because there aren't enough points of view being expressed to make it interesting for me. But I've also seen a lot of people get chased off by defensive people who feel like someone just walked into their living room and started spouting radical political views without even introducing themselves.

Just some observations. What do you think?

I agree, Bry. You brought up some valid points. We had a couple of boards previous to this one, but more family oriented. We converted to this one about a month ago to split up the chat between "general" and "political". We all get along very well and I guess get a bit defensive when seeing a friend in a *heated* debate. I think that will die down a bit as the board grows. Since the board is still rather small, all opinions are needed and heard right now!

Glad you decided to stick around.

 

[eric]

Look guys, this is what makes this board different. We have a feeling of community which you are welcome to join. What we are looking for is a free exchange of ideas, not argument, like you would find at yahoo. We do not allways agree with one another but the community feeling keeps us civil. Just forcing one's ideas on the rest of a board is to me, not debate but just cheap shots. I have been to boards like yahoo, you can not even follow what anyone is talking about because of all the insults. We were looking for something different. Our debates can get heated, like you said, it's politics, but when done in a civil, organized way, people think about what you are saying. Think about it for a moment wouldn't you rather disagree with people you know and respect rather than just duke it out.

Just my take.

 

[jones]

Originally posted by Joan
in addition to where and how the Bush familly tree got its power. It tells a story.


We can also counter with - have you looked at the Kennedy family tree and seen how they got their power???

How is that a counter? What does kennedy have to do with this discussion, besides that he brought it to light? anyway, sure, here it is.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/kennedys/timeline/index.html

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by jones
How is that a counter? What does kennedy have to do with this discussion, besides that he brought it to light? anyway, sure, here it is.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/kennedys/timeline/index.html

That link forgot a bit of it's timeline, try this one:

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/kennedytimeline.html

"Edward M. Kennedy, drives off a bridge on his way home from a party on Massachusetts' Chappaquiddick Island. Mary Jo Kopechne, an aide who was in the car with him, dies in the accident."

"David A. Kennedy, son of Robert, dies of a drug overdose in a Palm Beach, Florida, hotel. He was 28."

"Patrick Kennedy, the teenage son of Sen. Edward Kennedy, undergoes treatment for cocaine addiction."

"William Kennedy Smith, the son of Jean Kennedy Smith, is accused of raping a woman at the family's Palm Beach, Florida, vacation home. He is tried and acquitted."

"Michael Skakel, nephew of Ethel Kennedy, was found guilty in June by a Connecticut jury of the 1975 murder of Martha Moxley. Skakel was 15 when Moxley, also 15, was found bludgeoned to death outside her Greenwich, Conn., home. Skakel was sentenced to 20 years to life in prison in August."

 

[jones]

Originally posted by eric
Look guys, this is what makes this board different. We have a feeling of community which you are welcome to join. What we are looking for is a free exchange of ideas, not argument, like you would find at yahoo. We do not allways agree with one another but the community feeling keeps us civil. Just forcing one's ideas on the rest of a board is to me, not debate but just cheap shots. I have been to boards like yahoo, you can not even follow what anyone is talking about because of all the insults. We were looking for something different. Our debates can get heated, like you said, it's politics, but when done in a civil, organized way, people think about what you are saying. Think about it for a moment wouldn't you rather disagree with people you know and respect rather than just duke it out.

Just my take.

Ok, I agree with that.

but you said:
"Just forcing one's ideas on the rest of a board is to me, not debate but just cheap shots"

Just would like to point out this board is setup to be Biased.

Lets go into this forum's room called :

Canada
Make fun of the cowards here

OR

Muslim
Bash away!


What kind of impression do you think I get when coming here?

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by jones
Ok, I agree with that.

but you said:
"Just forcing one's ideas on the rest of a board is to me, not debate but just cheap shots"

Just would like to point out this board is setup to be Biased.

Lets go into this forum's room called :

Canada
Make fun of the cowards here

OR

Muslim
Bash away!


What kind of impression do you think I get when coming here?

Good points. Those will be updated.

 

[Joan]

Jones - you were the one that started this debate when you brought up the Bush family tree. I have as much right as you to express my opinion. Jim, your research didn't go quite far enough back - you should have started with Daddy Joe Kennedy and all his sleazy ways!

 

[jones]

Originally posted by jimnyc
That link forgot a bit of it's timeline, try this one:

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/kennedytimeline.html

"Edward M. Kennedy, drives off a bridge on his way home from a party on Massachusetts' Chappaquiddick Island. Mary Jo Kopechne, an aide who was in the car with him, dies in the accident."

"David A. Kennedy, son of Robert, dies of a drug overdose in a Palm Beach, Florida, hotel. He was 28."

"Patrick Kennedy, the teenage son of Sen. Edward Kennedy, undergoes treatment for cocaine addiction."

"William Kennedy Smith, the son of Jean Kennedy Smith, is accused of raping a woman at the family's Palm Beach, Florida, vacation home. He is tried and acquitted."

"Michael Skakel, nephew of Ethel Kennedy, was found guilty in June by a Connecticut jury of the 1975 murder of Martha Moxley. Skakel was 15 when Moxley, also 15, was found bludgeoned to death outside her Greenwich, Conn., home. Skakel was sentenced to 20 years to life in prison in August."

ok, same source, lets take the worst of what only Dubya did, as you did with kennedy's whole family, and sum it up.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0878291.html

"Bush's company verged on collapse until it was acquired by a Dallas firm"

"During the 2000 campaign, Bush characterized himself as a “compassionate conservative,” a somewhat vague description meant to evoke a kinder, gentler Republican. On the core issues, however, Bush adhered closely to the traditional conservative line, favoring small government, tax cuts, a strong military, and opposing gun control and abortion"

"The Bush camp sued in federal district court to prohibit manual recounts sought by Gore, and the case ultimately ended up in the U.S. Supreme Court."

"Bush won the presidency with 271 electoral votes, just one more than he needed, although he lost the popular vote by half a million. It was the first time that the Supreme Court, and not the electorate, determined the outcome of the presidential election."

"Bush withdrew the country from a number of international treaties, including the Kyoto treaty on global warming, which Bush contended would hurt the economy, and the 1972 Antiballistic Missile Treaty, the basis for the last three decades of nuclear stability with the Soviet Union"

"Bush also alienated allies abroad by withdrawing from a conference to regulate the global small-arms trade, rejecting the biological weapons convention banning germ warfare, imposing high tariffs on steel imports (to protect the U.S. steel industry), and withdrawing from a treaty to establish an international war-crimes court."

"Months of searching for Iraq's weapons of mass destruction—one of the prime reasons the Bush and Blair administrations cited for launching the war—yielded no hard evidence, and both administrations and their intelligence agencies came under fire. There were also mounting allegations that the existence of these weapons and their imminent threat to American security was exaggerated or distorted as a pretext to justify the war"

This is just the start of it. Dont get me started on 8 DWIs and going AWOL by not showing up for his drug tests..Hmm

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by jones
This is just the start of it. Dont get me started on 8 DWIs and going AWOL by not showing up for his drug tests..Hmm

8 DWI's? Am I reading this wrong? One in 1976 that I'm aware of. You have a link?

 

[jones]

http://www.toostupidtobepresident.com/top11/bush_crime_family.htm - could be biased, I suppose further searching on these crimes is needed.

Ok(8 DWIs) That was from what I remember, blown out of proportion as you see. So i guess he only was arrested for DWI once, but in the link above if you add it all up thats alot of crimes.

Have anything to add about what was found from infoplease?

 

[Joan]

Quite an interesting read there Jones - but it neglects to show who wrote these biographies - got any clue? The author seemed to write glowing accounts of both Slick Willy and JFK - and even if there were more than 1 DUI - it sure as hell doesn't stink as much as blatant adultery!

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by jones
[BHave anything to add about what was found from infoplease? [/B]

Other than not seeing Bush commit murder & rape or have a drug overdose? No.