Florist Sued for Refusing Service to Gay Couple Pens Defiant Letter Rejecting Gov’t Settlement Offer

[C_Clayton_Jones]

That's exactly what these laws do. PA laws require that a business treat their customers the same. That they NOT deny services. That they NOT segregate. That they DON'T discriminate.

Exactly the opposite of jim crow laws.

What on EARTH does race have to do with this conversation about alternative lifestyles wanting to experiment with kids formative environment (marriage)?

It has to do with the protected liberty of choice ...

LOL!

So "race" is a choice?

Do tell... .

Reader, do you see how perverse reasoning has no means to deal with reality.

Of course, this is the same species of reasoning which routinely advises you, expecting you to believe that "THE SEAS ARE RISING!", despite the fact (reality) that the seas are NOT rising... .

Your inability to comprehend also contributes to your hate, along with your fear, ignorance, and stupidity.

The protected liberty of choice is afforded to all persons with regard to making decisions in one's personal life, that could be a black man and a white woman making the decision to marry, or two persons of the same-sex deciding to marry, where the state is prohibited from denying them the right to made that choice.

Whether interracial couple or same-sex couple, it makes no difference, both are entitled to equal protection of the law, both are entitled to access marriage law that each couple is eligible to participate in.

 

[dblack]

So...PA laws are biased because they pick on people with biases, who act on those biases.....?

Yes! And it's crucial we understand why that matters. It's far more important that laws aren't biased because they are coercive in nature. You can end up dead or in jail if you defy them. Personal bigots aren't empowered to kill you or put you in jail. All they can do is refuse to bake you a cake.

They don't see the difference.

More accurately, I do see the difference between Jim Crow laws, segregation, white only lunch counters, rampant discrimination in housing, employment, and the law....

.....and requiring businesses treat their customers fairly and equally.

Seriously, do you really not recognize the difference between the government discriminating and citizens doing it? That's the point I'm making that you're steering around. Equal protection demands that government not be allowed to discriminate. AND it demands that the people remain free to do so. Setting the government up as the "decider" for which of our personal preferences are valid for choosing who we associate with is insane, and an overbearing intrusion on basic freedom of conscience.

 

[dblack]

The way I see it, if we're going to protect religious groups and racial minorities from discrimination, we should protect gays too, and fat people and ugly people and stupid people, people with annoying voices, short people, smart people, poor people, rich people, etc, etc. ...

Anything less is just playing favorites and amounts to government parsing out privilege.

Don't forget polygamy, incest and underaged people...

...shouldn't we also be protecting child-people and their rights to a mother and father in marriage?

This sort of stupidity deserves to be discriminated against.

That's exactly my point. Protected classes and PA laws don't eliminate discrimination. They don't ensure everyone is treated equally by businesses. They just decide who deserves to be discriminated against and who doesn't.

 

[Redfish]

Even better yet, how bout we keep what happens in the bedroom out of everyone's freaking face?

That's an interesting point. Why is it that many people, then they look at gay people or talk about gay people AUTOMATICALLY default to thinking about what they do in bed? Is that normal? Am I missing out on something by not AUTOMATICALLY defaulting to think about what straight people do in bed when I meet them or talk about them?

Because they shove it in our faces. You still haven't answered the question of why what people do in the bedroom needs to be everyone's business vis a vis gay rights.

How exactly do we "shove it in your faces"? By admitting we exist? Why do you keep focusing on what we do in the bedroom? Do you do the same with every heterosexual you meet? Are you undressing them with your eyes all the time? Are you getting flustered thinking of what they do with their husband or wife when they are alone?

oh come on. The gay agenda is not about equality, rights, or freedom. Its about using government to force societal acceptance of your deviant lifestyle. You are so desperate to be called normal, but you are not, and never will be. the government can dictate whatever it chooses, but you cannot change mammalian biology.

No, it isn't. And they are normal, just as red heads are normal even though the majority of people aren't red heads.

So hair color and homosexuality are equally "normal" ? Thats the weakest argument yet posted.

All humans have some hair on their bodies, but only half have a penis and half have a vagina. Our genitalia is there for a purpose, the penis goes into the vagina in order to reproduce the species. In humans sex is also a form or recreation and pleasure.

A penis up a rectum or two women fingering each other is not a form of normal human sexual activity. Its an aberation, its deviant behavior.

I don't know if its genetic (disease) or a choice (mental disease). But its not normal.

 

[Redfish]

then the gay couple could not insist that he get one for their cake? His refusal to buy and sell a cake topper with two women would not be discrimination in your mind?

No, because the baker does not sell them. If he or she did, and refused to sell them to a Christian, THAT would be discrimination.

wait a minute. He sells toppers with a man and a woman. Is he not discriminating by not selling toppers with two men or two women?


I am just trying to get everyone to think this through and understand where it will lead.

No, it isn't discriminating because he doesn't sell the toppers. He is free to choose the products he sells. He is not free to refuse to sell a product he sells to someone because he is a bigot against them.

The PA laws do not dictate what a business may sell.

But they mandate who he must sell to. Want to see real discrimination? Walk down a street in Dearborn Michigan wearing a yamaca and reciting jewish scripture, OR, walk down the same street wearing a large gold cross and reciting the psalms. You would likely be stoned, beaten up, or maybe killed.

there is not tolerance in islam. But yet, you libs insist that we give them tolerance in all things. hypocrisy, stupidity, ignorance? which is it?

Hello? What you've described is against the law (beating someone up, etc., because of their religion). So how is enforcing laws against Muslims beating people up giving them tolerance?

In muslim enclaves in this country and in europe those laws are not being enforced. We are tolerating illegal behavior because of the perpetrator's minority status. Its insane.

 

[Redfish]

No, because the baker does not sell them. If he or she did, and refused to sell them to a Christian, THAT would be discrimination.

wait a minute. He sells toppers with a man and a woman. Is he not discriminating by not selling toppers with two men or two women?


I am just trying to get everyone to think this through and understand where it will lead.

No, it isn't discriminating because he doesn't sell the toppers. He is free to choose the products he sells. He is not free to refuse to sell a product he sells to someone because he is a bigot against them.

The PA laws do not dictate what a business may sell.

But they mandate who he must sell to. Want to see real discrimination? Walk down a street in Dearborn Michigan wearing a yamaca and reciting jewish scripture, OR, walk down the same street wearing a large gold cross and reciting the psalms. You would likely be stoned, beaten up, or maybe killed.

there is not tolerance in islam. But yet, you libs insist that we give them tolerance in all things. hypocrisy, stupidity, ignorance? which is it?

Hello? What you've described is against the law (beating someone up, etc., because of their religion). So how is enforcing laws against Muslims beating people up giving them tolerance?

Indeed....beating people up is against the law and no amount of claiming religious freedom will stop them from getting arrested.

wrong

 

[Redfish]

How was the bath house?

This may come as a shock to you due to your limited imagination, but I am a heterosexual man. I am an American who sees the vile behavior of some hammer headed Conservatives as just as egregious as those same hammer head Conservatives treated every other group that wasn't hammer headed Conservatives.

Freedom means freedom for all Americans, even those with whom you might have a personal grudge against. And so far as Conservatives go, they hold plenty of grudges. African Americans, single parent households, pregnant women (well, women in general), the poor, the non English speaker, the environment, and now homosexuals.

Want a medal or a chest to pin it on?

Can you tell I am oh so impressed?

Here's a hint: nobody cares if you are impressed or not.

Awwww you mad bro?

Listen, take your left turd Kumbaya and save it for the homos.

It's so ironic that you think I'm going to hell for the non familial consenting adult I'm madly in love with...

Whether you go to hell is up to God. What you do in private and who you do it with is no ones business but you and the other person.

What you want is for societly to condone your behavior and give you sanction of your lifestyle.

A society decides what it considers acceptable and what behavior it will sanction. In a muslim society you would be stoned to death.

The way to resolve this is to have a referendum in each state and then a consittutional amendment to either sanction gay marriage or to deny it. Such an amendment could also address multiple person marriage, relative marriage, etc.

So lets let the people decide and live with the results. OK?

 

[SassyIrishLass]

This may come as a shock to you due to your limited imagination, but I am a heterosexual man. I am an American who sees the vile behavior of some hammer headed Conservatives as just as egregious as those same hammer head Conservatives treated every other group that wasn't hammer headed Conservatives.

Freedom means freedom for all Americans, even those with whom you might have a personal grudge against. And so far as Conservatives go, they hold plenty of grudges. African Americans, single parent households, pregnant women (well, women in general), the poor, the non English speaker, the environment, and now homosexuals.

Want a medal or a chest to pin it on?

Can you tell I am oh so impressed?

Here's a hint: nobody cares if you are impressed or not.

Awwww you mad bro?

Listen, take your left turd Kumbaya and save it for the homos.

It's so ironic that you think I'm going to hell for the non familial consenting adult I'm madly in love with...

Whether you go to hell is up to God.

I don't agree with that, your actions and how you live your life is what determines it. God gave us a set of rules, it's up to us to follow those rules or suffer the consequences of breaking them

 

[Redfish]

So...PA laws are biased because they pick on people with biases, who act on those biases.....?

Yes! And it's crucial we understand why that matters. It's far more important that laws aren't biased because they are coercive in nature. You can end up dead or in jail if you defy them. Personal bigots aren't empowered to kill you or put you in jail. All they can do is refuse to bake you a cake.

I think its perfectly reasonable for the State with its uncontested authority over intrastate commerce to require those engaged in commerce in their State to meet minimum standards of fairness in business. Specifically, that they treat their customers fairly and equally.

Can a store owner legally give a reduced price to a family member?

 

[Redfish]

Want a medal or a chest to pin it on?

Can you tell I am oh so impressed?

Here's a hint: nobody cares if you are impressed or not.

Awwww you mad bro?

Listen, take your left turd Kumbaya and save it for the homos.

It's so ironic that you think I'm going to hell for the non familial consenting adult I'm madly in love with...

Whether you go to hell is up to God.

I don't agree with that, your actions and how you live your life is what determines it. God gave us a set of rules, it's up to us to follow those rules or suffer the consequences of breaking them

you contradicted yourself, but thats ok.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Here's a hint: nobody cares if you are impressed or not.

Awwww you mad bro?

Listen, take your left turd Kumbaya and save it for the homos.

It's so ironic that you think I'm going to hell for the non familial consenting adult I'm madly in love with...

Whether you go to hell is up to God.

I don't agree with that, your actions and how you live your life is what determines it. God gave us a set of rules, it's up to us to follow those rules or suffer the consequences of breaking them

you contradicted yourself, but thats ok.

How so? There are rules, God doesn't make anyone obey them or break them, free will. It's on us.

 

[Redfish]

Awwww you mad bro?

Listen, take your left turd Kumbaya and save it for the homos.

It's so ironic that you think I'm going to hell for the non familial consenting adult I'm madly in love with...

Whether you go to hell is up to God.

I don't agree with that, your actions and how you live your life is what determines it. God gave us a set of rules, it's up to us to follow those rules or suffer the consequences of breaking them

you contradicted yourself, but thats ok.

How so? There are rules, God doesn't make anyone obey them or break them, free will. It's on us.

How we live our lives is up to us. The final judgement belongs to God.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

It's so ironic that you think I'm going to hell for the non familial consenting adult I'm madly in love with...

Whether you go to hell is up to God.

I don't agree with that, your actions and how you live your life is what determines it. God gave us a set of rules, it's up to us to follow those rules or suffer the consequences of breaking them

you contradicted yourself, but thats ok.

How so? There are rules, God doesn't make anyone obey them or break them, free will. It's on us.

How we live our lives is up to us. The final judgement belongs to God.

I understand where you are coming from but how we live our lives determines our fate. Once you draw your last breath your fate is sealed

 

[Nosmo King]

This may come as a shock to you due to your limited imagination, but I am a heterosexual man. I am an American who sees the vile behavior of some hammer headed Conservatives as just as egregious as those same hammer head Conservatives treated every other group that wasn't hammer headed Conservatives.

Freedom means freedom for all Americans, even those with whom you might have a personal grudge against. And so far as Conservatives go, they hold plenty of grudges. African Americans, single parent households, pregnant women (well, women in general), the poor, the non English speaker, the environment, and now homosexuals.

Want a medal or a chest to pin it on?

Can you tell I am oh so impressed?

Here's a hint: nobody cares if you are impressed or not.

Awwww you mad bro?

Listen, take your left turd Kumbaya and save it for the homos.

It's so ironic that you think I'm going to hell for the non familial consenting adult I'm madly in love with...

Whether you go to hell is up to God. What you do in private and who you do it with is no ones business but you and the other person.

What you want is for societly to condone your behavior and give you sanction of your lifestyle.

A society decides what it considers acceptable and what behavior it will sanction. In a muslim society you would be stoned to death.

The way to resolve this is to have a referendum in each state and then a consittutional amendment to either sanction gay marriage or to deny it. Such an amendment could also address multiple person marriage, relative marriage, etc.

So lets let the people decide and live with the results. OK?

An amendment is not necessary.

This may come as a shock to you due to your limited imagination, but I am a heterosexual man. I am an American who sees the vile behavior of some hammer headed Conservatives as just as egregious as those same hammer head Conservatives treated every other group that wasn't hammer headed Conservatives.

Freedom means freedom for all Americans, even those with whom you might have a personal grudge against. And so far as Conservatives go, they hold plenty of grudges. African Americans, single parent households, pregnant women (well, women in general), the poor, the non English speaker, the environment, and now homosexuals.

Want a medal or a chest to pin it on?

Can you tell I am oh so impressed?

Here's a hint: nobody cares if you are impressed or not.

Awwww you mad bro?

Listen, take your left turd Kumbaya and save it for the homos.

It's so ironic that you think I'm going to hell for the non familial consenting adult I'm madly in love with...

Whether you go to hell is up to God. What you do in private and who you do it with is no ones business but you and the other person.

What you want is for societly to condone your behavior and give you sanction of your lifestyle.

A society decides what it considers acceptable and what behavior it will sanction. In a muslim society you would be stoned to death.

The way to resolve this is to have a referendum in each state and then a consittutional amendment to either sanction gay marriage or to deny it. Such an amendment could also address multiple person marriage, relative marriage, etc.

So lets let the people decide and live with the results. OK?

marriage is contract law. It provides a next of kin relationship between two consenting adult where no such next of kin relationship exists. Denying such citizens access to the system of jurisprudence is wrong. Let the court say so and make it right.

 

[Redfish]

Whether you go to hell is up to God.

I don't agree with that, your actions and how you live your life is what determines it. God gave us a set of rules, it's up to us to follow those rules or suffer the consequences of breaking them

you contradicted yourself, but thats ok.

How so? There are rules, God doesn't make anyone obey them or break them, free will. It's on us.

How we live our lives is up to us. The final judgement belongs to God.

I understand where you are coming from but how we live our lives determines our fate. Once you draw your last breath your fate is sealed

Forgiveness is in the hands of God. Our fate is not sealed until he decides that it is.

 

[Redfish]

Want a medal or a chest to pin it on?

Can you tell I am oh so impressed?

Here's a hint: nobody cares if you are impressed or not.

Awwww you mad bro?

Listen, take your left turd Kumbaya and save it for the homos.

It's so ironic that you think I'm going to hell for the non familial consenting adult I'm madly in love with...

Whether you go to hell is up to God. What you do in private and who you do it with is no ones business but you and the other person.

What you want is for societly to condone your behavior and give you sanction of your lifestyle.

A society decides what it considers acceptable and what behavior it will sanction. In a muslim society you would be stoned to death.

The way to resolve this is to have a referendum in each state and then a consittutional amendment to either sanction gay marriage or to deny it. Such an amendment could also address multiple person marriage, relative marriage, etc.

So lets let the people decide and live with the results. OK?

An amendment is not necessary.

Want a medal or a chest to pin it on?

Can you tell I am oh so impressed?

Here's a hint: nobody cares if you are impressed or not.

Awwww you mad bro?

Listen, take your left turd Kumbaya and save it for the homos.

It's so ironic that you think I'm going to hell for the non familial consenting adult I'm madly in love with...

Whether you go to hell is up to God. What you do in private and who you do it with is no ones business but you and the other person.

What you want is for societly to condone your behavior and give you sanction of your lifestyle.

A society decides what it considers acceptable and what behavior it will sanction. In a muslim society you would be stoned to death.

The way to resolve this is to have a referendum in each state and then a consittutional amendment to either sanction gay marriage or to deny it. Such an amendment could also address multiple person marriage, relative marriage, etc.

So lets let the people decide and live with the results. OK?

marriage is contract law. It provides a next of kin relationship between two consenting adult where no such next of kin relationship exists. Denying such citizens access to the system of jurisprudence is wrong. Let the court say so and make it right.

marriage is controlled by state laws. If you want gay marriage recognized in all 50 states then you need to amend the constitution.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

I don't agree with that, your actions and how you live your life is what determines it. God gave us a set of rules, it's up to us to follow those rules or suffer the consequences of breaking them

you contradicted yourself, but thats ok.

How so? There are rules, God doesn't make anyone obey them or break them, free will. It's on us.

How we live our lives is up to us. The final judgement belongs to God.

I understand where you are coming from but how we live our lives determines our fate. Once you draw your last breath your fate is sealed

Forgiveness is in the hands of God. Our fate is not sealed until he decides that it is.

I respectfully disagree and perhaps it's the difference in our faiths. Let's just agree to disagree and thanks for being civil

 

[Nosmo King]

Want a medal or a chest to pin it on?

Can you tell I am oh so impressed?

Here's a hint: nobody cares if you are impressed or not.

Awwww you mad bro?

Listen, take your left turd Kumbaya and save it for the homos.

It's so ironic that you think I'm going to hell for the non familial consenting adult I'm madly in love with...

Whether you go to hell is up to God.

I don't agree with that, your actions and how you live your life is what determines it. God gave us a set of rules, it's up to us to follow those rules or suffer the consequences of breaking them

That's not how America works. We are not governed by Biblical mandate, thank God! We are governed by secular law. America is not a Theocracy.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Whether you go to hell is up to God.

I don't agree with that, your actions and how you live your life is what determines it. God gave us a set of rules, it's up to us to follow those rules or suffer the consequences of breaking them

you contradicted yourself, but thats ok.

How so? There are rules, God doesn't make anyone obey them or break them, free will. It's on us.

How we live our lives is up to us. The final judgement belongs to God.

I understand where you are coming from but how we live our lives determines our fate. Once you draw your last breath your fate is sealed

Your fate was sealed at conception. Only the date of your death is unknown.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Here's a hint: nobody cares if you are impressed or not.

Awwww you mad bro?

Listen, take your left turd Kumbaya and save it for the homos.

It's so ironic that you think I'm going to hell for the non familial consenting adult I'm madly in love with...

Whether you go to hell is up to God.

I don't agree with that, your actions and how you live your life is what determines it. God gave us a set of rules, it's up to us to follow those rules or suffer the consequences of breaking them

That's not how America works. We are not governed by Biblical mandate, thank God! We are governed by secular law. America is not a Theocracy.

Your comment has nothing to do with what I responded to