Global Climate Change Ain't the Only Thing Causing This to Melt

[longknife]

Oh my goodness. Does this mean that Mankind just might not be responsible for this? Oh horrors!

Thwaites Glacier, the large, rapidly changing outlet of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet, is not only being eroded by the ocean, it's being melted from below by geothermal heat, researchers at the Institute for Geophysics at The University of Texas at Austin (UTIG) report in the current edition of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

For those who are going to attack the message due to the messenger, please explain why. Read the story @ Researchers find major West Antarctic glacier melting from geothermal sources ? MercoPress

 

[flacaltenn]

Wow.. This means that a couple geothermal plants could provide enough power for the continent to sustain even MORE scientists that get their expeditions stranded in the ice..

 

[mamooth]

Oh my goodness. Does this mean that Mankind just might not be responsible for this? Oh horrors!

No. You apparently didn't take your own advice, and failed to read the story.

All the story said was the geothermal component was bigger than previously thought. But it did _not_ say the geothermal component was increasing, the reason being that the geothermal heating is not increasing. It's remaining the same. The glacier had previously been in equilibrium with all external heat sources. But if you turn up the human heating and keep the geothermal constant, that changes the equilibrium and melts back the glacier.

 

[flacaltenn]

Oh my goodness. Does this mean that Mankind just might not be responsible for this? Oh horrors!

No. You apparently didn't take your own advice, and failed to read the story.

All the story said was the geothermal component was bigger than previously thought. But it did _not_ say the geothermal component was increasing, the reason being that the geothermal heating is not increasing. It's remaining the same. The glacier had previously been in equilibrium with all external heat sources. But if you turn up the human heating and keep the geothermal constant, that changes the equilibrium and melts back the glacier.

Right. Average surface temps are -30degC. -50degC is a warm winter day. That ice doesnt give a shit abouut 0.5deg on the surface side, But a nice thick layer of ice would make a great convection barrier for heat produced UNDER the ice. Equilibrium for that is gonna make the warmest spot in Antarctica between the ice and the the geothermal source..

 

[Crick]

I think the end result of this new knowledge will be a foreshortening of the time its going to take for the already irretrievably destabilized WAIS to completely collapse. Water lubrication at the ice/bedrock interface is a major factor in the acceleration glacial flow. Think of an ice cube sliding across a hot griddle.

 

[skookerasbil]

Oooooooooooooooooooooops!!!!!!


Antarctic Glacier Melt Due To Volcanoes, Not Global Warming | The Daily Caller


Leave it to skooks to bring this forum the daily update on AGW climate crusader losing @ www.winning..com

 

[flacaltenn]

Sorry 'bout the merge Skooksman.. Looks like LongKnife beat ya to this by a couple days.
Now we can colonize Antarctica before we leave for Mars. Got all the power we need..

 

[Crick]

Longknife, do you actually intend to suggest that vulcanism or geothermal heat is responsible for anything more than some of the melting taking place on the Thwaites Glacier? If so, for what other phenomena would you credit geothermal heat?

 

[IanC]

What a sad joke is the hypocrisy of the warmers. The air temp of Antarctica has basically no impact on glacier movement because the ice itself insulates any important areas to movement. The ocean temp and currents at least have some minor impact on the tongue protruding into the sea but we have little actual data over the last 50 years to make any reasonable models as to what is happening. Now that we have 'discovered' vulcanism and geothermal effects at exactly the right place to make a huge impact on the stability of the area, non- thinking punks like mamooth and crickham declare that it makes no difference. Warming under the glaciers and lubrication by water has an impact that is many orders of magnitude greater than the feeble impact of global warming.

This is just another fairy tale to scare the world into wasting more money on global warming which could be spent on other much more productive areas of research.

 

[Crick]

What a sad joke is the hypocrisy of the warmers.

What a sad failure is the dishonesty of the deniers. Your arguments here will not support this charge.

The air temp of Antarctica has basically no impact on glacier movement because the ice itself insulates any important areas to movement.

No one ever suggested it did. Regardless of the insulation, air temperatures rarely if ever get above freezing.

The ocean temp and currents at least have some minor impact on the tongue protruding into the sea but we have little actual data over the last 50 years to make any reasonable models as to what is happening.

The experts in the field say something quite different. The primary hypothesis at the moment is that increased ocean temperatures are the primary cause of the rapid recession of the grounding line. And if there is "little actual data" with which to make reasonable models, on what do you base your disagreement with the world's glaciologists?

By the way, there is actually a great deal of data these days due to the use of ground penetrating radars.

Now that we have 'discovered' vulcanism and geothermal effects at exactly the right place to make a huge impact on the stability of the area, non- thinking punks like mamooth and crickham declare that it makes no difference.

Vulcanism has only been discovered under the Thwaites Glacier. There is no vulcanism under the PIG or any of the other glaciers feeding into the Amundsen Sea and irretrievably destabilized by sea water.

Warming under the glaciers and lubrication by water has an impact that is many orders of magnitude greater than the feeble impact of global warming.

And, again, you know this how? The paucity of data you claim available doesn't seem to have slowed you down coming to conclusions that the world's glaciologists actually studying this issue have NOT reached. Vulcanism will have an effect in its locale. Warm oceans will effect the entire coast line, the entire grounding line and the entire ice sheet. Your contention here is simply wrong.

This is just another fairy tale to scare the world into wasting more money on global warming which could be spent on other much more productive areas of research.

This is the result of actual research, not mindless hand-waving with a predetermined outcome to claim.

 

[IanC]

again, the small change in ocean currents has a much larger impact than the tiny change in water temp.

you keep attributing every change to tiny temperature differences while ignoring the much more important factors that actually can lead to major changes.

 

[asterism]

Oh my goodness. Does this mean that Mankind just might not be responsible for this? Oh horrors!

No. You apparently didn't take your own advice, and failed to read the story.

All the story said was the geothermal component was bigger than previously thought. But it did _not_ say the geothermal component was increasing, the reason being that the geothermal heating is not increasing. It's remaining the same. The glacier had previously been in equilibrium with all external heat sources. But if you turn up the human heating and keep the geothermal constant, that changes the equilibrium and melts back the glacier.

How do you know the glacier was in equilibrium? Perhaps it has been slowly melting for a long time and it's just now making a difference in the structure.

Also how do you know the geothermal heat was constant? It has only recently been discovered to exist at all.

 

[IanC]

Oh my goodness. Does this mean that Mankind just might not be responsible for this? Oh horrors!

No. You apparently didn't take your own advice, and failed to read the story.

All the story said was the geothermal component was bigger than previously thought. But it did _not_ say the geothermal component was increasing, the reason being that the geothermal heating is not increasing. It's remaining the same. The glacier had previously been in equilibrium with all external heat sources. But if you turn up the human heating and keep the geothermal constant, that changes the equilibrium and melts back the glacier.

How do you know the glacier was in equilibrium? Perhaps it has been slowly melting for a long time and it's just now making a difference in the structure.

Also how do you know the geothermal heat was constant? It has only recently been discovered to exist at all.

exactly. they dont know

 

[mamooth]

That's not how science works.

If you want to propose a theory that increased vulcanism is causing global warming, you need to show evidence of the increased vulcanism.

"Well, can you prove it's _not_ from increased vulcanism, huh, huh?" is shifting the burden of proof, an evasion.

Now, we do know global warming as a whole is not from increased vulcanism under the oceans, since that would be heating the oceans from the bottom up, which is not happening.

 

[natstew]

Study Attributes Glacier Melting to Volcanoes, Not Man | CNS News

Same facts from a different source.

 

[mamooth]

Nat, try reading the freaking study. Don't just go by the dishonest headline that a kook right propaganda source tacked on.

 

[asterism]

That's not how science works.

If you want to propose a theory that increased vulcanism is causing global warming, you need to show evidence of the increased vulcanism.

"Well, can you prove it's _not_ from increased vulcanism, huh, huh?" is shifting the burden of proof, an evasion.

Now, we do know global warming as a whole is not from increased vulcanism under the oceans, since that would be heating the oceans from the bottom up, which is not happening.

I note that you always admonish "deniers" on "how science works" but you never speak up when a "warmer" takes some leaps to explain a speculation as fact.

Why is that? Is science selective?

 

[IanC]

That's not how science works.

If you want to propose a theory that increased vulcanism is causing global warming, you need to show evidence of the increased vulcanism.

"Well, can you prove it's _not_ from increased vulcanism, huh, huh?" is shifting the burden of proof, an evasion.

Now, we do know global warming as a whole is not from increased vulcanism under the oceans, since that would be heating the oceans from the bottom up, which is not happening.

Hahahaha. Nice strawman!


No one is saying volcanoes are causing global warming. The area in Antarctica with outlier warming and possible glacier retreat just happens to have volcanoes under the ice. Is it more likely that a piddly rise in global warming is the cause? Not friggin likely.

 

[mamooth]

No one is saying volcanoes are causing global warming. The area in Antarctica with outlier warming and possible glacier retreat just happens to have volcanoes under the ice. Is it more likely that a piddly rise in global warming is the cause? Not friggin likely.

You neglected to provide your evidence that vulcanism under that glacier has been increasing.

"I can't believe it's global warming!" would not be such evidence.

 

[flacaltenn]

No one is saying volcanoes are causing global warming. The area in Antarctica with outlier warming and possible glacier retreat just happens to have volcanoes under the ice. Is it more likely that a piddly rise in global warming is the cause? Not friggin likely.

You neglected to provide your evidence that vulcanism under that glacier has been increasing.

"I can't believe it's global warming!" would not be such evidence.

Doesn't NEED to be increasing in order to be a significant cause of the fresh water channels that have been observed. Only needs to be producing more heat energy than can be conducted through the thicker portions of ice. No convection possibility means that every watt produced will end up melting ice. AND possibly un-anchoring key portions of that glacier. While at the same time, every mm melted has no chance of refreezing in that boundary layer..