God Is The Original Mathematician

[Taz]

Because man fell, he subjected himself to labor pains, disease, and death. And he still suffers those maladies, correct?

Yes, obviously he still suffers those maladies.

Man didn't fall, Adam did.

Um, the context is the Bible here, Sparky, which says, "For as in Adam all die."

That was two thousand years ago, of course.

To then blame everything bad that god does on man is a total cop-out, man.

Different time, different place. The context of man's fall is two thousand years plus.

All f humanity didn't fall, just Adam. He doesn't speak for me. Like you say, that was ... well... never.

 

[norwegen]

Because man fell, he subjected himself to labor pains, disease, and death. And he still suffers those maladies, correct?

Yes, obviously he still suffers those maladies.

Man didn't fall, Adam did.

Um, the context is the Bible here, Sparky, which says, "For as in Adam all die."

That was two thousand years ago, of course.

To then blame everything bad that god does on man is a total cop-out, man.

Different time, different place. The context of man's fall is two thousand years plus.

All f humanity didn't fall, just Adam. He doesn't speak for me. Like you say, that was ... well... never.

By man, I mean Adam. I don't mean the people of Nod or anyone else from whom Israel did not proceed.

 

[Taz]

Because man fell, he subjected himself to labor pains, disease, and death. And he still suffers those maladies, correct?

Yes, obviously he still suffers those maladies.

Man didn't fall, Adam did.

Um, the context is the Bible here, Sparky, which says, "For as in Adam all die."

That was two thousand years ago, of course.

To then blame everything bad that god does on man is a total cop-out, man.

Different time, different place. The context of man's fall is two thousand years plus.

All f humanity didn't fall, just Adam. He doesn't speak for me. Like you say, that was ... well... never.

By man, I mean Adam. I don't mean the people of Nod or anyone else from whom Israel did not proceed.

So Adam falls and god blames everything thereafter on us? That doesn't even make any sense.

 

[norwegen]

Because man fell, he subjected himself to labor pains, disease, and death. And he still suffers those maladies, correct?

Yes, obviously he still suffers those maladies.

Man didn't fall, Adam did.

Um, the context is the Bible here, Sparky, which says, "For as in Adam all die."

That was two thousand years ago, of course.

To then blame everything bad that god does on man is a total cop-out, man.

Different time, different place. The context of man's fall is two thousand years plus.

All f humanity didn't fall, just Adam. He doesn't speak for me. Like you say, that was ... well... never.

By man, I mean Adam. I don't mean the people of Nod or anyone else from whom Israel did not proceed.

So Adam falls and god blames everything thereafter on us? That doesn't even make any sense.

When you read a biography of Abraham Lincoln, do you think you're reading a biography that includes you?

Try to keep up, eh. I didn't "us." I said Israel. Now go away; I was having a discussion with JAG.

 

[Taz]

Because man fell, he subjected himself to labor pains, disease, and death. And he still suffers those maladies, correct?

Yes, obviously he still suffers those maladies.

Man didn't fall, Adam did.

Um, the context is the Bible here, Sparky, which says, "For as in Adam all die."

That was two thousand years ago, of course.

To then blame everything bad that god does on man is a total cop-out, man.

Different time, different place. The context of man's fall is two thousand years plus.

All f humanity didn't fall, just Adam. He doesn't speak for me. Like you say, that was ... well... never.

By man, I mean Adam. I don't mean the people of Nod or anyone else from whom Israel did not proceed.

So Adam falls and god blames everything thereafter on us? That doesn't even make any sense.

When you read a biography of Abraham Lincoln, do you think you're reading a biography that includes you?

Try to keep up, eh. I didn't "us." I said Israel. Now go away; I was having a discussion with JAG.

So Adam falls and god blames everything afterwards on Israel? I'm just trying to figure out the real story.

 

[norwegen]

Because man fell, he subjected himself to labor pains, disease, and death. And he still suffers those maladies, correct?

Yes, obviously he still suffers those maladies.

Man didn't fall, Adam did.

Um, the context is the Bible here, Sparky, which says, "For as in Adam all die."

That was two thousand years ago, of course.

To then blame everything bad that god does on man is a total cop-out, man.

Different time, different place. The context of man's fall is two thousand years plus.

All f humanity didn't fall, just Adam. He doesn't speak for me. Like you say, that was ... well... never.

By man, I mean Adam. I don't mean the people of Nod or anyone else from whom Israel did not proceed.

So Adam falls and god blames everything thereafter on us? That doesn't even make any sense.

When you read a biography of Abraham Lincoln, do you think you're reading a biography that includes you?

Try to keep up, eh. I didn't "us." I said Israel. Now go away; I was having a discussion with JAG.

So Adam falls and god blames everything afterwards on Israel? I'm just trying to figure out the real story.

The best place to start, then, is the beginning. Wouldn't you say?

Who do you think Adam was, and what do you think he fell from?

 

[JAG]

JAG Writes:
I LOVE science. True science. My view is that God LOVES
true science too, for example Math , , ,

My view is that Math originated in the nature of God who
is the Original Mathematician --- just as all the other
disciplines also originated in the nature of God.

God Is The , , ,
Original Mathematician
Original Physicist
Original Cosmologist
Original Inventor
Original Artist
Original Scientist
Original Oceanographer
Original Philosopher
Original Epistemologist
Original Empiricist
Original Poet
Original Writer
Original Lover {wanting the best for others}
Original Chooser { Volition }
Original Economist
Original Emotion-ist {the full range of All Good Emotions}
Original Planner
Original Creator
Original Designer
Original Technologist
Original Educator
Original Everything Good , , ,

, , and we humans participate in all that up there since we are
made in the image of God , , ,

, , and that above is why human beings, made in the image of God,
have been able to build the modern world and will be able to keep making
progress in Science and Technology for ever and ever, even when the
human race makes the transition from Earthly human history to Eternity.

Humans are made in the image of God and God has , ,
~ An Intellect --- and so do we humans
~ Emotions --- and so do we humans
~ Volition {a Will, the ability to choose -- and so do we humans

God's Human Race Project ends victoriously.

Long live science. True science.

JAG


``

Well JAG,

By definition, the universe cannot exist without physical laws which are consistent wherever you go.

And mathematics is the language of science which describes the physical universe.

God not only invented math, at some level some kind of mathematics must describe who and what he is.

God is the perfect, all-encompassing equation.

So why does god make deformed children who suffer constant pain?

Are you an atheist?

I'm agnostic and see no proof either for or against the existence of a god. But leave the door open if anyone comes up with real proof either way. Can't be any fairer than that.

Sure. I'm 99.99% confident that God is real, but I cannot prove it.

But what I'm asking is that if god exists, why does he make, or have in his realm, children who suffer so terribly? What would be its rationale for that?

I don't know.
If God exists, is it your belief that he is "evil" for permitting suffering?

I'm just curious as to why a god would make children suffer horrible pain and deformities.

"I'm just curious as to why a god would make children suffer horrible pain and deformities."___Taz

The Biblical answer is:
God made the world perfect.
God made humans perfect.
There was no sickness, pain, or death.
Mankind chose to sin and therefore the Sin Principle was introduced into the human race.
The Sin Principle brought suffering, pain, and death.
____________

Yet God did not leave humans alone in our suffering and pain.
He sent His Son the Lord Jesus to "fix the problem" with a gradual long term solution of ultimate restoration.
The problem is now fixed through the gradual process of restoring the human race.

You would be much happier of you "joined in" that process as a Christian and
made your contribution as a Christian to make this world a better place.

Here is a list of the top 10 Christian Organizations that make the world a better
place and they work hard to alleviate the suffering in the world as they
follow the example of the Lord Jesus. And these top 10 are only a tiny part of
the HUGE-ENORMOUS efforts of worldwide Christendom to make the world a
better place by helping ease the world's suffering.

The Top Ten Christian Charities
1. Samaritan’s Purse: Helping in Jesus’ Name
2. Compassion International
3. Lutheran World Relief: Sustainable Development, Lasting Promise
4. Operation Blessing International: Breaking the Cycle of Suffering
5. Advancing Native Missions: Learn, Connect, Engage
6. Children’s Hunger Fund: Gospel-Centered Mercy Ministry
7. The Salvation Army: Doing the Most Good
8. Catholic Relief Services: Faith, Action, Results
9. Lifeline Christian Mission: Restoring Hope Among the Nations
10. Food For The Poor: Saving Lives, Transforming Communities, Renewing Hope
The Top 10 Most Amazing Christian Charities - Theology Degrees

__________

Taz,

Give some thought to joining us.
John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son that whoever
believes on Him shall not perish but have Eternal Life.
{1} believe and get Eternal Life
{2} refuse to believe and perish

JAG

PS
In all systems "all is well that ends well" and on Christianity all ends very well.

"And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling
place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be
his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. He will
wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning
or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
Revelation 21:3-4

Best.


JAG

``

"Perfect" humans erred. They gave in to temptation and sin.

Does the Genesis account of creation say that the world was perfect? (And I'm assuming by world, you mean the planet, an assumption that just adds to the confusion.) Was the Garden of Eden even perfect? A garden where an adversary lived and was able to peddle his fruit?

Personally, I say just let Taz prattle. He's asking an age-old question of traditional teachings, and isn't going to find an answer there, anyway.

""Perfect" humans erred. They gave in to temptation and sin.

Does the Genesis account of creation say that the world was perfect?
(And I'm assuming by world, you mean the planet, an assumption
that just adds to the confusion.) Was the Garden of Eden even
perfect? A garden where an adversary lived and was able to peddle
his fruit?

Personally, I say just let Taz prattle. He's asking an age-old question
of traditional teachings, and isn't going to find an answer there,
anyway."___Norwegen

There is no point in arguing over the definition of a word {perfect}.
If you don't like "perfect" you can pick another word. The point is
that on Biblical Christianity, there was a Fall into sin. God made
man un-fallen --- can we use the word "un-fallen"? So what
happened? Here is what happened: Un-fallen man fell into
sin and introduced the hideous dangerous Sin Principle
which brought pain in childbearing, disease, and death.

None of this would have happened if mankind had
not Fallen into sin. If you eliminate The Fall then
you eliminate Sin and if you eliminate Sin you
eliminate the need for a Savior and then
we have eliminated the New Testament and
eliminated Christendom and reduced it to
nothing more than some decent moral
instructions.

Best.

JAG

``

Because man fell, he subjected himself to labor pains, disease, and death. And he still suffers those maladies, correct?

Yes, obviously he still suffers those maladies.

Yes he still suffers from those maladies -- thus Saint Jude's Hospital that
treats children with cancer --- just one example among many, another is
Samaritan's Purse whose motto is "Helping In Jesus' Name", they are
a huge Christian Charity Organization that helps alleviate the suffering
in the world caused by the Sin Principle. I expect you agree with all
this.

JAG

``

 

[JAG]

JAG Writes:
I LOVE science. True science. My view is that God LOVES
true science too, for example Math , , ,

My view is that Math originated in the nature of God who
is the Original Mathematician --- just as all the other
disciplines also originated in the nature of God.

God Is The , , ,
Original Mathematician
Original Physicist
Original Cosmologist
Original Inventor
Original Artist
Original Scientist
Original Oceanographer
Original Philosopher
Original Epistemologist
Original Empiricist
Original Poet
Original Writer
Original Lover {wanting the best for others}
Original Chooser { Volition }
Original Economist
Original Emotion-ist {the full range of All Good Emotions}
Original Planner
Original Creator
Original Designer
Original Technologist
Original Educator
Original Everything Good , , ,

, , and we humans participate in all that up there since we are
made in the image of God , , ,

, , and that above is why human beings, made in the image of God,
have been able to build the modern world and will be able to keep making
progress in Science and Technology for ever and ever, even when the
human race makes the transition from Earthly human history to Eternity.

Humans are made in the image of God and God has , ,
~ An Intellect --- and so do we humans
~ Emotions --- and so do we humans
~ Volition {a Will, the ability to choose -- and so do we humans

God's Human Race Project ends victoriously.

Long live science. True science.

JAG


``

Well JAG,

By definition, the universe cannot exist without physical laws which are consistent wherever you go.

And mathematics is the language of science which describes the physical universe.

God not only invented math, at some level some kind of mathematics must describe who and what he is.

God is the perfect, all-encompassing equation.

So why does god make deformed children who suffer constant pain?

Are you an atheist?

I'm agnostic and see no proof either for or against the existence of a god. But leave the door open if anyone comes up with real proof either way. Can't be any fairer than that.

Sure. I'm 99.99% confident that God is real, but I cannot prove it.

But what I'm asking is that if god exists, why does he make, or have in his realm, children who suffer so terribly? What would be its rationale for that?

I don't know.
If God exists, is it your belief that he is "evil" for permitting suffering?

I'm just curious as to why a god would make children suffer horrible pain and deformities.

"I'm just curious as to why a god would make children suffer horrible pain and deformities."___Taz

The Biblical answer is:
God made the world perfect.
God made humans perfect.
There was no sickness, pain, or death.
Mankind chose to sin and therefore the Sin Principle was introduced into the human race.
The Sin Principle brought suffering, pain, and death.
____________

Yet God did not leave humans alone in our suffering and pain.
He sent His Son the Lord Jesus to "fix the problem" with a gradual long term solution of ultimate restoration.
The problem is now fixed through the gradual process of restoring the human race.

You would be much happier of you "joined in" that process as a Christian and
made your contribution as a Christian to make this world a better place.

Here is a list of the top 10 Christian Organizations that make the world a better
place and they work hard to alleviate the suffering in the world as they
follow the example of the Lord Jesus. And these top 10 are only a tiny part of
the HUGE-ENORMOUS efforts of worldwide Christendom to make the world a
better place by helping ease the world's suffering.

The Top Ten Christian Charities
1. Samaritan’s Purse: Helping in Jesus’ Name
2. Compassion International
3. Lutheran World Relief: Sustainable Development, Lasting Promise
4. Operation Blessing International: Breaking the Cycle of Suffering
5. Advancing Native Missions: Learn, Connect, Engage
6. Children’s Hunger Fund: Gospel-Centered Mercy Ministry
7. The Salvation Army: Doing the Most Good
8. Catholic Relief Services: Faith, Action, Results
9. Lifeline Christian Mission: Restoring Hope Among the Nations
10. Food For The Poor: Saving Lives, Transforming Communities, Renewing Hope
The Top 10 Most Amazing Christian Charities - Theology Degrees

__________

Taz,

Give some thought to joining us.
John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son that whoever
believes on Him shall not perish but have Eternal Life.
{1} believe and get Eternal Life
{2} refuse to believe and perish

JAG

PS
In all systems "all is well that ends well" and on Christianity all ends very well.

"And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling
place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be
his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. He will
wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning
or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
Revelation 21:3-4

Best.


JAG

``

"Perfect" humans erred. They gave in to temptation and sin.

Does the Genesis account of creation say that the world was perfect? (And I'm assuming by world, you mean the planet, an assumption that just adds to the confusion.) Was the Garden of Eden even perfect? A garden where an adversary lived and was able to peddle his fruit?

Personally, I say just let Taz prattle. He's asking an age-old question of traditional teachings, and isn't going to find an answer there, anyway.

""Perfect" humans erred. They gave in to temptation and sin.

Does the Genesis account of creation say that the world was perfect?
(And I'm assuming by world, you mean the planet, an assumption
that just adds to the confusion.) Was the Garden of Eden even
perfect? A garden where an adversary lived and was able to peddle
his fruit?

Personally, I say just let Taz prattle. He's asking an age-old question
of traditional teachings, and isn't going to find an answer there,
anyway."___Norwegen

There is no point in arguing over the definition of a word {perfect}.
If you don't like "perfect" you can pick another word. The point is
that on Biblical Christianity, there was a Fall into sin. God made
man un-fallen --- can we use the word "un-fallen"? So what
happened? Here is what happened: Un-fallen man fell into
sin and introduced the hideous dangerous Sin Principle
which brought pain in childbearing, disease, and death.

None of this would have happened if mankind had
not Fallen into sin. If you eliminate The Fall then
you eliminate Sin and if you eliminate Sin you
eliminate the need for a Savior and then
we have eliminated the New Testament and
eliminated Christendom and reduced it to
nothing more than some decent moral
instructions.

Best.

JAG

``

Because man fell, he subjected himself to labor pains, disease, and death. And he still suffers those maladies, correct?

Yes, obviously he still suffers those maladies.

Man didn't fall, Adam did. To then blame everything bad that god does on man is a total cop-out, man.

"Man didn't fall, Adam did. To then blame everything bad that god does
on man is a total cop-out, man."__Taz

You misunderstand The Fall.
Each man born REPEATS Adam's sin and he uses his Free Will to make the
Free Will choice to REPEAT Adam's sin. Put another way, each human being
recreates, in principle, The Fall. There was a time, when you {and me} made
a decision to commit our first sin -- and in so doing we became sinners
who needed A Savior --- here think of John 3:16 -- this is why "For God
so loved the world that He gave HIs one and only Son that whoever believes
on Him shall not perish but have Eternal Life."
{1} believe and get Eternal Life
{2} refuse to believe and perish

JAG

``

 

[norwegen]

JAG Writes:
I LOVE science. True science. My view is that God LOVES
true science too, for example Math , , ,

My view is that Math originated in the nature of God who
is the Original Mathematician --- just as all the other
disciplines also originated in the nature of God.

God Is The , , ,
Original Mathematician
Original Physicist
Original Cosmologist
Original Inventor
Original Artist
Original Scientist
Original Oceanographer
Original Philosopher
Original Epistemologist
Original Empiricist
Original Poet
Original Writer
Original Lover {wanting the best for others}
Original Chooser { Volition }
Original Economist
Original Emotion-ist {the full range of All Good Emotions}
Original Planner
Original Creator
Original Designer
Original Technologist
Original Educator
Original Everything Good , , ,

, , and we humans participate in all that up there since we are
made in the image of God , , ,

, , and that above is why human beings, made in the image of God,
have been able to build the modern world and will be able to keep making
progress in Science and Technology for ever and ever, even when the
human race makes the transition from Earthly human history to Eternity.

Humans are made in the image of God and God has , ,
~ An Intellect --- and so do we humans
~ Emotions --- and so do we humans
~ Volition {a Will, the ability to choose -- and so do we humans

God's Human Race Project ends victoriously.

Long live science. True science.

JAG


``

Well JAG,

By definition, the universe cannot exist without physical laws which are consistent wherever you go.

And mathematics is the language of science which describes the physical universe.

God not only invented math, at some level some kind of mathematics must describe who and what he is.

God is the perfect, all-encompassing equation.

So why does god make deformed children who suffer constant pain?

Are you an atheist?

I'm agnostic and see no proof either for or against the existence of a god. But leave the door open if anyone comes up with real proof either way. Can't be any fairer than that.

Sure. I'm 99.99% confident that God is real, but I cannot prove it.

But what I'm asking is that if god exists, why does he make, or have in his realm, children who suffer so terribly? What would be its rationale for that?

I don't know.
If God exists, is it your belief that he is "evil" for permitting suffering?

I'm just curious as to why a god would make children suffer horrible pain and deformities.

"I'm just curious as to why a god would make children suffer horrible pain and deformities."___Taz

The Biblical answer is:
God made the world perfect.
God made humans perfect.
There was no sickness, pain, or death.
Mankind chose to sin and therefore the Sin Principle was introduced into the human race.
The Sin Principle brought suffering, pain, and death.
____________

Yet God did not leave humans alone in our suffering and pain.
He sent His Son the Lord Jesus to "fix the problem" with a gradual long term solution of ultimate restoration.
The problem is now fixed through the gradual process of restoring the human race.

You would be much happier of you "joined in" that process as a Christian and
made your contribution as a Christian to make this world a better place.

Here is a list of the top 10 Christian Organizations that make the world a better
place and they work hard to alleviate the suffering in the world as they
follow the example of the Lord Jesus. And these top 10 are only a tiny part of
the HUGE-ENORMOUS efforts of worldwide Christendom to make the world a
better place by helping ease the world's suffering.

The Top Ten Christian Charities
1. Samaritan’s Purse: Helping in Jesus’ Name
2. Compassion International
3. Lutheran World Relief: Sustainable Development, Lasting Promise
4. Operation Blessing International: Breaking the Cycle of Suffering
5. Advancing Native Missions: Learn, Connect, Engage
6. Children’s Hunger Fund: Gospel-Centered Mercy Ministry
7. The Salvation Army: Doing the Most Good
8. Catholic Relief Services: Faith, Action, Results
9. Lifeline Christian Mission: Restoring Hope Among the Nations
10. Food For The Poor: Saving Lives, Transforming Communities, Renewing Hope
The Top 10 Most Amazing Christian Charities - Theology Degrees

__________

Taz,

Give some thought to joining us.
John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son that whoever
believes on Him shall not perish but have Eternal Life.
{1} believe and get Eternal Life
{2} refuse to believe and perish

JAG

PS
In all systems "all is well that ends well" and on Christianity all ends very well.

"And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling
place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be
his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. He will
wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning
or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
Revelation 21:3-4

Best.


JAG

``

"Perfect" humans erred. They gave in to temptation and sin.

Does the Genesis account of creation say that the world was perfect? (And I'm assuming by world, you mean the planet, an assumption that just adds to the confusion.) Was the Garden of Eden even perfect? A garden where an adversary lived and was able to peddle his fruit?

Personally, I say just let Taz prattle. He's asking an age-old question of traditional teachings, and isn't going to find an answer there, anyway.

""Perfect" humans erred. They gave in to temptation and sin.

Does the Genesis account of creation say that the world was perfect?
(And I'm assuming by world, you mean the planet, an assumption
that just adds to the confusion.) Was the Garden of Eden even
perfect? A garden where an adversary lived and was able to peddle
his fruit?

Personally, I say just let Taz prattle. He's asking an age-old question
of traditional teachings, and isn't going to find an answer there,
anyway."___Norwegen

There is no point in arguing over the definition of a word {perfect}.
If you don't like "perfect" you can pick another word. The point is
that on Biblical Christianity, there was a Fall into sin. God made
man un-fallen --- can we use the word "un-fallen"? So what
happened? Here is what happened: Un-fallen man fell into
sin and introduced the hideous dangerous Sin Principle
which brought pain in childbearing, disease, and death.

None of this would have happened if mankind had
not Fallen into sin. If you eliminate The Fall then
you eliminate Sin and if you eliminate Sin you
eliminate the need for a Savior and then
we have eliminated the New Testament and
eliminated Christendom and reduced it to
nothing more than some decent moral
instructions.

Best.

JAG

``

Because man fell, he subjected himself to labor pains, disease, and death. And he still suffers those maladies, correct?

Yes, obviously he still suffers those maladies.

Yes he still suffers from those maladies -- thus Saint Jude's Hospital that
treats children with cancer --- just one example among many, another is
Samaritan's Purse whose motto is "Helping In Jesus' Name", they are
a huge Christian Charity Organization that helps alleviate the suffering
in the world caused by the Sin Principle. I expect you agree with all
this.

JAG

``

Yes, I believe man experiences these kinds of maladies now, just like he did after he fell. You and I agree.

I also believe labor pains, death, and disease occurred in the Garden.

 

[Taz]

Because man fell, he subjected himself to labor pains, disease, and death. And he still suffers those maladies, correct?

Yes, obviously he still suffers those maladies.

Man didn't fall, Adam did.

Um, the context is the Bible here, Sparky, which says, "For as in Adam all die."

That was two thousand years ago, of course.

To then blame everything bad that god does on man is a total cop-out, man.

Different time, different place. The context of man's fall is two thousand years plus.

All f humanity didn't fall, just Adam. He doesn't speak for me. Like you say, that was ... well... never.

By man, I mean Adam. I don't mean the people of Nod or anyone else from whom Israel did not proceed.

So Adam falls and god blames everything thereafter on us? That doesn't even make any sense.

When you read a biography of Abraham Lincoln, do you think you're reading a biography that includes you?

Try to keep up, eh. I didn't "us." I said Israel. Now go away; I was having a discussion with JAG.

So Adam falls and god blames everything afterwards on Israel? I'm just trying to figure out the real story.

The best place to start, then, is the beginning. Wouldn't you say?

Who do you think Adam was, and what do you think he fell from?

Adam was most likely the first alien-made human. Before that we were an ape-like species for millions of years.

 

[Taz]

JAG Writes:
I LOVE science. True science. My view is that God LOVES
true science too, for example Math , , ,

My view is that Math originated in the nature of God who
is the Original Mathematician --- just as all the other
disciplines also originated in the nature of God.

God Is The , , ,
Original Mathematician
Original Physicist
Original Cosmologist
Original Inventor
Original Artist
Original Scientist
Original Oceanographer
Original Philosopher
Original Epistemologist
Original Empiricist
Original Poet
Original Writer
Original Lover {wanting the best for others}
Original Chooser { Volition }
Original Economist
Original Emotion-ist {the full range of All Good Emotions}
Original Planner
Original Creator
Original Designer
Original Technologist
Original Educator
Original Everything Good , , ,

, , and we humans participate in all that up there since we are
made in the image of God , , ,

, , and that above is why human beings, made in the image of God,
have been able to build the modern world and will be able to keep making
progress in Science and Technology for ever and ever, even when the
human race makes the transition from Earthly human history to Eternity.

Humans are made in the image of God and God has , ,
~ An Intellect --- and so do we humans
~ Emotions --- and so do we humans
~ Volition {a Will, the ability to choose -- and so do we humans

God's Human Race Project ends victoriously.

Long live science. True science.

JAG


``

Well JAG,

By definition, the universe cannot exist without physical laws which are consistent wherever you go.

And mathematics is the language of science which describes the physical universe.

God not only invented math, at some level some kind of mathematics must describe who and what he is.

God is the perfect, all-encompassing equation.

So why does god make deformed children who suffer constant pain?

Are you an atheist?

I'm agnostic and see no proof either for or against the existence of a god. But leave the door open if anyone comes up with real proof either way. Can't be any fairer than that.

Sure. I'm 99.99% confident that God is real, but I cannot prove it.

But what I'm asking is that if god exists, why does he make, or have in his realm, children who suffer so terribly? What would be its rationale for that?

I don't know.
If God exists, is it your belief that he is "evil" for permitting suffering?

I'm just curious as to why a god would make children suffer horrible pain and deformities.

"I'm just curious as to why a god would make children suffer horrible pain and deformities."___Taz

The Biblical answer is:
God made the world perfect.
God made humans perfect.
There was no sickness, pain, or death.
Mankind chose to sin and therefore the Sin Principle was introduced into the human race.
The Sin Principle brought suffering, pain, and death.
____________

Yet God did not leave humans alone in our suffering and pain.
He sent His Son the Lord Jesus to "fix the problem" with a gradual long term solution of ultimate restoration.
The problem is now fixed through the gradual process of restoring the human race.

You would be much happier of you "joined in" that process as a Christian and
made your contribution as a Christian to make this world a better place.

Here is a list of the top 10 Christian Organizations that make the world a better
place and they work hard to alleviate the suffering in the world as they
follow the example of the Lord Jesus. And these top 10 are only a tiny part of
the HUGE-ENORMOUS efforts of worldwide Christendom to make the world a
better place by helping ease the world's suffering.

The Top Ten Christian Charities
1. Samaritan’s Purse: Helping in Jesus’ Name
2. Compassion International
3. Lutheran World Relief: Sustainable Development, Lasting Promise
4. Operation Blessing International: Breaking the Cycle of Suffering
5. Advancing Native Missions: Learn, Connect, Engage
6. Children’s Hunger Fund: Gospel-Centered Mercy Ministry
7. The Salvation Army: Doing the Most Good
8. Catholic Relief Services: Faith, Action, Results
9. Lifeline Christian Mission: Restoring Hope Among the Nations
10. Food For The Poor: Saving Lives, Transforming Communities, Renewing Hope
The Top 10 Most Amazing Christian Charities - Theology Degrees

__________

Taz,

Give some thought to joining us.
John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son that whoever
believes on Him shall not perish but have Eternal Life.
{1} believe and get Eternal Life
{2} refuse to believe and perish

JAG

PS
In all systems "all is well that ends well" and on Christianity all ends very well.

"And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling
place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be
his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. He will
wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning
or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
Revelation 21:3-4

Best.


JAG

``

"Perfect" humans erred. They gave in to temptation and sin.

Does the Genesis account of creation say that the world was perfect? (And I'm assuming by world, you mean the planet, an assumption that just adds to the confusion.) Was the Garden of Eden even perfect? A garden where an adversary lived and was able to peddle his fruit?

Personally, I say just let Taz prattle. He's asking an age-old question of traditional teachings, and isn't going to find an answer there, anyway.

""Perfect" humans erred. They gave in to temptation and sin.

Does the Genesis account of creation say that the world was perfect?
(And I'm assuming by world, you mean the planet, an assumption
that just adds to the confusion.) Was the Garden of Eden even
perfect? A garden where an adversary lived and was able to peddle
his fruit?

Personally, I say just let Taz prattle. He's asking an age-old question
of traditional teachings, and isn't going to find an answer there,
anyway."___Norwegen

There is no point in arguing over the definition of a word {perfect}.
If you don't like "perfect" you can pick another word. The point is
that on Biblical Christianity, there was a Fall into sin. God made
man un-fallen --- can we use the word "un-fallen"? So what
happened? Here is what happened: Un-fallen man fell into
sin and introduced the hideous dangerous Sin Principle
which brought pain in childbearing, disease, and death.

None of this would have happened if mankind had
not Fallen into sin. If you eliminate The Fall then
you eliminate Sin and if you eliminate Sin you
eliminate the need for a Savior and then
we have eliminated the New Testament and
eliminated Christendom and reduced it to
nothing more than some decent moral
instructions.

Best.

JAG

``

Because man fell, he subjected himself to labor pains, disease, and death. And he still suffers those maladies, correct?

Yes, obviously he still suffers those maladies.

Man didn't fall, Adam did. To then blame everything bad that god does on man is a total cop-out, man.

"Man didn't fall, Adam did. To then blame everything bad that god does
on man is a total cop-out, man."__Taz

You misunderstand The Fall.
Each man born REPEATS Adam's sin and he uses his Free Will to make the
Free Will choice to REPEAT Adam's sin. Put another way, each human being
recreates, in principle, The Fall. There was a time, when you {and me} made
a decision to commit our first sin -- and in so doing we became sinners
who needed A Savior --- here think of John 3:16 -- this is why "For God
so loved the world that He gave HIs one and only Son that whoever believes
on Him shall not perish but have Eternal Life."
{1} believe and get Eternal Life
{2} refuse to believe and perish

JAG

``

So if you use your god-given free will, god won't be happy unless you get his son to save you. Isn't that kind of like the firemen who lights fires to be a hero?

 

[Taz]

JAG Writes:
I LOVE science. True science. My view is that God LOVES
true science too, for example Math , , ,

My view is that Math originated in the nature of God who
is the Original Mathematician --- just as all the other
disciplines also originated in the nature of God.

God Is The , , ,
Original Mathematician
Original Physicist
Original Cosmologist
Original Inventor
Original Artist
Original Scientist
Original Oceanographer
Original Philosopher
Original Epistemologist
Original Empiricist
Original Poet
Original Writer
Original Lover {wanting the best for others}
Original Chooser { Volition }
Original Economist
Original Emotion-ist {the full range of All Good Emotions}
Original Planner
Original Creator
Original Designer
Original Technologist
Original Educator
Original Everything Good , , ,

, , and we humans participate in all that up there since we are
made in the image of God , , ,

, , and that above is why human beings, made in the image of God,
have been able to build the modern world and will be able to keep making
progress in Science and Technology for ever and ever, even when the
human race makes the transition from Earthly human history to Eternity.

Humans are made in the image of God and God has , ,
~ An Intellect --- and so do we humans
~ Emotions --- and so do we humans
~ Volition {a Will, the ability to choose -- and so do we humans

God's Human Race Project ends victoriously.

Long live science. True science.

JAG


``

Well JAG,

By definition, the universe cannot exist without physical laws which are consistent wherever you go.

And mathematics is the language of science which describes the physical universe.

God not only invented math, at some level some kind of mathematics must describe who and what he is.

God is the perfect, all-encompassing equation.

So why does god make deformed children who suffer constant pain?

Are you an atheist?

I'm agnostic and see no proof either for or against the existence of a god. But leave the door open if anyone comes up with real proof either way. Can't be any fairer than that.

Sure. I'm 99.99% confident that God is real, but I cannot prove it.

But what I'm asking is that if god exists, why does he make, or have in his realm, children who suffer so terribly? What would be its rationale for that?

I don't know.
If God exists, is it your belief that he is "evil" for permitting suffering?

I'm just curious as to why a god would make children suffer horrible pain and deformities.

"I'm just curious as to why a god would make children suffer horrible pain and deformities."___Taz

The Biblical answer is:
God made the world perfect.
God made humans perfect.
There was no sickness, pain, or death.
Mankind chose to sin and therefore the Sin Principle was introduced into the human race.
The Sin Principle brought suffering, pain, and death.
____________

Yet God did not leave humans alone in our suffering and pain.
He sent His Son the Lord Jesus to "fix the problem" with a gradual long term solution of ultimate restoration.
The problem is now fixed through the gradual process of restoring the human race.

You would be much happier of you "joined in" that process as a Christian and
made your contribution as a Christian to make this world a better place.

Here is a list of the top 10 Christian Organizations that make the world a better
place and they work hard to alleviate the suffering in the world as they
follow the example of the Lord Jesus. And these top 10 are only a tiny part of
the HUGE-ENORMOUS efforts of worldwide Christendom to make the world a
better place by helping ease the world's suffering.

The Top Ten Christian Charities
1. Samaritan’s Purse: Helping in Jesus’ Name
2. Compassion International
3. Lutheran World Relief: Sustainable Development, Lasting Promise
4. Operation Blessing International: Breaking the Cycle of Suffering
5. Advancing Native Missions: Learn, Connect, Engage
6. Children’s Hunger Fund: Gospel-Centered Mercy Ministry
7. The Salvation Army: Doing the Most Good
8. Catholic Relief Services: Faith, Action, Results
9. Lifeline Christian Mission: Restoring Hope Among the Nations
10. Food For The Poor: Saving Lives, Transforming Communities, Renewing Hope
The Top 10 Most Amazing Christian Charities - Theology Degrees

__________

Taz,

Give some thought to joining us.
John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son that whoever
believes on Him shall not perish but have Eternal Life.
{1} believe and get Eternal Life
{2} refuse to believe and perish

JAG

PS
In all systems "all is well that ends well" and on Christianity all ends very well.

"And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling
place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be
his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. He will
wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning
or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
Revelation 21:3-4

Best.


JAG

``

"Perfect" humans erred. They gave in to temptation and sin.

Does the Genesis account of creation say that the world was perfect? (And I'm assuming by world, you mean the planet, an assumption that just adds to the confusion.) Was the Garden of Eden even perfect? A garden where an adversary lived and was able to peddle his fruit?

Personally, I say just let Taz prattle. He's asking an age-old question of traditional teachings, and isn't going to find an answer there, anyway.

""Perfect" humans erred. They gave in to temptation and sin.

Does the Genesis account of creation say that the world was perfect?
(And I'm assuming by world, you mean the planet, an assumption
that just adds to the confusion.) Was the Garden of Eden even
perfect? A garden where an adversary lived and was able to peddle
his fruit?

Personally, I say just let Taz prattle. He's asking an age-old question
of traditional teachings, and isn't going to find an answer there,
anyway."___Norwegen

There is no point in arguing over the definition of a word {perfect}.
If you don't like "perfect" you can pick another word. The point is
that on Biblical Christianity, there was a Fall into sin. God made
man un-fallen --- can we use the word "un-fallen"? So what
happened? Here is what happened: Un-fallen man fell into
sin and introduced the hideous dangerous Sin Principle
which brought pain in childbearing, disease, and death.

None of this would have happened if mankind had
not Fallen into sin. If you eliminate The Fall then
you eliminate Sin and if you eliminate Sin you
eliminate the need for a Savior and then
we have eliminated the New Testament and
eliminated Christendom and reduced it to
nothing more than some decent moral
instructions.

Best.

JAG

``

Because man fell, he subjected himself to labor pains, disease, and death. And he still suffers those maladies, correct?

Yes, obviously he still suffers those maladies.

Yes he still suffers from those maladies -- thus Saint Jude's Hospital that
treats children with cancer --- just one example among many, another is
Samaritan's Purse whose motto is "Helping In Jesus' Name", they are
a huge Christian Charity Organization that helps alleviate the suffering
in the world caused by the Sin Principle. I expect you agree with all
this.

JAG

``

Yes, I believe man experiences these kinds of maladies now, just like he did after he fell. You and I agree.

I also believe labor pains, death, and disease occurred in the Garden.

Weren't Adam & Eve booted from the Garden for having hetero sex?

 

[norwegen]

The best place to start, then, is the beginning. Wouldn't you say?

Who do you think Adam was, and what do you think he fell from?

Adam was most likely the first alien-made human. Before that we were an ape-like species for millions of years.

Aliens have been around a long time, then.

They're very good at hiding.

 

[JAG]

JAG Writes:
I LOVE science. True science. My view is that God LOVES
true science too, for example Math , , ,

My view is that Math originated in the nature of God who
is the Original Mathematician --- just as all the other
disciplines also originated in the nature of God.

God Is The , , ,
Original Mathematician
Original Physicist
Original Cosmologist
Original Inventor
Original Artist
Original Scientist
Original Oceanographer
Original Philosopher
Original Epistemologist
Original Empiricist
Original Poet
Original Writer
Original Lover {wanting the best for others}
Original Chooser { Volition }
Original Economist
Original Emotion-ist {the full range of All Good Emotions}
Original Planner
Original Creator
Original Designer
Original Technologist
Original Educator
Original Everything Good , , ,

, , and we humans participate in all that up there since we are
made in the image of God , , ,

, , and that above is why human beings, made in the image of God,
have been able to build the modern world and will be able to keep making
progress in Science and Technology for ever and ever, even when the
human race makes the transition from Earthly human history to Eternity.

Humans are made in the image of God and God has , ,
~ An Intellect --- and so do we humans
~ Emotions --- and so do we humans
~ Volition {a Will, the ability to choose -- and so do we humans

God's Human Race Project ends victoriously.

Long live science. True science.

JAG


``

Well JAG,

By definition, the universe cannot exist without physical laws which are consistent wherever you go.

And mathematics is the language of science which describes the physical universe.

God not only invented math, at some level some kind of mathematics must describe who and what he is.

God is the perfect, all-encompassing equation.

So why does god make deformed children who suffer constant pain?

Are you an atheist?

I'm agnostic and see no proof either for or against the existence of a god. But leave the door open if anyone comes up with real proof either way. Can't be any fairer than that.

Sure. I'm 99.99% confident that God is real, but I cannot prove it.

But what I'm asking is that if god exists, why does he make, or have in his realm, children who suffer so terribly? What would be its rationale for that?

I don't know.
If God exists, is it your belief that he is "evil" for permitting suffering?

I'm just curious as to why a god would make children suffer horrible pain and deformities.

"I'm just curious as to why a god would make children suffer horrible pain and deformities."___Taz

The Biblical answer is:
God made the world perfect.
God made humans perfect.
There was no sickness, pain, or death.
Mankind chose to sin and therefore the Sin Principle was introduced into the human race.
The Sin Principle brought suffering, pain, and death.
____________

Yet God did not leave humans alone in our suffering and pain.
He sent His Son the Lord Jesus to "fix the problem" with a gradual long term solution of ultimate restoration.
The problem is now fixed through the gradual process of restoring the human race.

You would be much happier of you "joined in" that process as a Christian and
made your contribution as a Christian to make this world a better place.

Here is a list of the top 10 Christian Organizations that make the world a better
place and they work hard to alleviate the suffering in the world as they
follow the example of the Lord Jesus. And these top 10 are only a tiny part of
the HUGE-ENORMOUS efforts of worldwide Christendom to make the world a
better place by helping ease the world's suffering.

The Top Ten Christian Charities
1. Samaritan’s Purse: Helping in Jesus’ Name
2. Compassion International
3. Lutheran World Relief: Sustainable Development, Lasting Promise
4. Operation Blessing International: Breaking the Cycle of Suffering
5. Advancing Native Missions: Learn, Connect, Engage
6. Children’s Hunger Fund: Gospel-Centered Mercy Ministry
7. The Salvation Army: Doing the Most Good
8. Catholic Relief Services: Faith, Action, Results
9. Lifeline Christian Mission: Restoring Hope Among the Nations
10. Food For The Poor: Saving Lives, Transforming Communities, Renewing Hope
The Top 10 Most Amazing Christian Charities - Theology Degrees

__________

Taz,

Give some thought to joining us.
John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son that whoever
believes on Him shall not perish but have Eternal Life.
{1} believe and get Eternal Life
{2} refuse to believe and perish

JAG

PS
In all systems "all is well that ends well" and on Christianity all ends very well.

"And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling
place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be
his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. He will
wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning
or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
Revelation 21:3-4

Best.


JAG

``

"Perfect" humans erred. They gave in to temptation and sin.

Does the Genesis account of creation say that the world was perfect? (And I'm assuming by world, you mean the planet, an assumption that just adds to the confusion.) Was the Garden of Eden even perfect? A garden where an adversary lived and was able to peddle his fruit?

Personally, I say just let Taz prattle. He's asking an age-old question of traditional teachings, and isn't going to find an answer there, anyway.

""Perfect" humans erred. They gave in to temptation and sin.

Does the Genesis account of creation say that the world was perfect?
(And I'm assuming by world, you mean the planet, an assumption
that just adds to the confusion.) Was the Garden of Eden even
perfect? A garden where an adversary lived and was able to peddle
his fruit?

Personally, I say just let Taz prattle. He's asking an age-old question
of traditional teachings, and isn't going to find an answer there,
anyway."___Norwegen

There is no point in arguing over the definition of a word {perfect}.
If you don't like "perfect" you can pick another word. The point is
that on Biblical Christianity, there was a Fall into sin. God made
man un-fallen --- can we use the word "un-fallen"? So what
happened? Here is what happened: Un-fallen man fell into
sin and introduced the hideous dangerous Sin Principle
which brought pain in childbearing, disease, and death.

None of this would have happened if mankind had
not Fallen into sin. If you eliminate The Fall then
you eliminate Sin and if you eliminate Sin you
eliminate the need for a Savior and then
we have eliminated the New Testament and
eliminated Christendom and reduced it to
nothing more than some decent moral
instructions.

Best.

JAG

``

Because man fell, he subjected himself to labor pains, disease, and death. And he still suffers those maladies, correct?

Yes, obviously he still suffers those maladies.

Yes he still suffers from those maladies -- thus Saint Jude's Hospital that
treats children with cancer --- just one example among many, another is
Samaritan's Purse whose motto is "Helping In Jesus' Name", they are
a huge Christian Charity Organization that helps alleviate the suffering
in the world caused by the Sin Principle. I expect you agree with all
this.

JAG

``

Yes, I believe man experiences these kinds of maladies now, just like he did after he fell. You and I agree.

I also believe labor pains, death, and disease occurred in the Garden.

"Yes, I believe man experiences these kinds of maladies now, just like he did after he fell. You and I agree.

I also believe labor pains, death, and disease occurred in the Garden."__Norwegen

Amen to all that.

JAG

``

 

[JAG]

Because man fell, he subjected himself to labor pains, disease, and death. And he still suffers those maladies, correct?

Yes, obviously he still suffers those maladies.

Man didn't fall, Adam did.

Um, the context is the Bible here, Sparky, which says, "For as in Adam all die."

That was two thousand years ago, of course.

To then blame everything bad that god does on man is a total cop-out, man.

Different time, different place. The context of man's fall is two thousand years plus.

All f humanity didn't fall, just Adam. He doesn't speak for me. Like you say, that was ... well... never.

By man, I mean Adam. I don't mean the people of Nod or anyone else from whom Israel did not proceed.

So Adam falls and god blames everything thereafter on us? That doesn't even make any sense.

When you read a biography of Abraham Lincoln, do you think you're reading a biography that includes you?

Try to keep up, eh. I didn't "us." I said Israel. Now go away; I was having a discussion with JAG.

So Adam falls and god blames everything afterwards on Israel? I'm just trying to figure out the real story.

The best place to start, then, is the beginning. Wouldn't you say?

Who do you think Adam was, and what do you think he fell from?

Adam was most likely the first alien-made human. Before that we were an ape-like species for millions of years.

"Weren't Adam & Eve booted from the Garden for having hetero sex?"__Taz

"So if you use your god-given free will, god won't be happy unless you get his
son to save you. Isn't that kind of like the firemen who lights fires to be a hero?"__Taz

I want you to know that I know that you are merely trying to "jerk my chain" or
"rattle my cage" --- but that's alright because it gives me an opportunity to
call your attention to some Bible verses which is one of the things I do.

"For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their
life for me will find it. What good will it be for someone to gain the
whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange
for their soul?"___the Lord Jesus Matthew 16:25-26

____________


“Lord,” Martha said to Jesus, “if you had been here, my brother
would not have died. But I know that even now God will give
you whatever you ask.”

Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.”

Martha answered, “I know he will rise again in the resurrection
at the last day.”

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one
who believes in me will live, even though they die; and
whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you
believe this?”

“Yes, Lord,” she replied, “I believe that you are the Messiah,
the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”
John chapter 11

JAG

``

 

[norwegen]

JAG Writes:
I LOVE science. True science. My view is that God LOVES
true science too, for example Math , , ,

My view is that Math originated in the nature of God who
is the Original Mathematician --- just as all the other
disciplines also originated in the nature of God.

God Is The , , ,
Original Mathematician
Original Physicist
Original Cosmologist
Original Inventor
Original Artist
Original Scientist
Original Oceanographer
Original Philosopher
Original Epistemologist
Original Empiricist
Original Poet
Original Writer
Original Lover {wanting the best for others}
Original Chooser { Volition }
Original Economist
Original Emotion-ist {the full range of All Good Emotions}
Original Planner
Original Creator
Original Designer
Original Technologist
Original Educator
Original Everything Good , , ,

, , and we humans participate in all that up there since we are
made in the image of God , , ,

, , and that above is why human beings, made in the image of God,
have been able to build the modern world and will be able to keep making
progress in Science and Technology for ever and ever, even when the
human race makes the transition from Earthly human history to Eternity.

Humans are made in the image of God and God has , ,
~ An Intellect --- and so do we humans
~ Emotions --- and so do we humans
~ Volition {a Will, the ability to choose -- and so do we humans

God's Human Race Project ends victoriously.

Long live science. True science.

JAG


``

Well JAG,

By definition, the universe cannot exist without physical laws which are consistent wherever you go.

And mathematics is the language of science which describes the physical universe.

God not only invented math, at some level some kind of mathematics must describe who and what he is.

God is the perfect, all-encompassing equation.

So why does god make deformed children who suffer constant pain?

Are you an atheist?

I'm agnostic and see no proof either for or against the existence of a god. But leave the door open if anyone comes up with real proof either way. Can't be any fairer than that.

Sure. I'm 99.99% confident that God is real, but I cannot prove it.

But what I'm asking is that if god exists, why does he make, or have in his realm, children who suffer so terribly? What would be its rationale for that?

I don't know.
If God exists, is it your belief that he is "evil" for permitting suffering?

I'm just curious as to why a god would make children suffer horrible pain and deformities.

"I'm just curious as to why a god would make children suffer horrible pain and deformities."___Taz

The Biblical answer is:
God made the world perfect.
God made humans perfect.
There was no sickness, pain, or death.
Mankind chose to sin and therefore the Sin Principle was introduced into the human race.
The Sin Principle brought suffering, pain, and death.
____________

Yet God did not leave humans alone in our suffering and pain.
He sent His Son the Lord Jesus to "fix the problem" with a gradual long term solution of ultimate restoration.
The problem is now fixed through the gradual process of restoring the human race.

You would be much happier of you "joined in" that process as a Christian and
made your contribution as a Christian to make this world a better place.

Here is a list of the top 10 Christian Organizations that make the world a better
place and they work hard to alleviate the suffering in the world as they
follow the example of the Lord Jesus. And these top 10 are only a tiny part of
the HUGE-ENORMOUS efforts of worldwide Christendom to make the world a
better place by helping ease the world's suffering.

The Top Ten Christian Charities
1. Samaritan’s Purse: Helping in Jesus’ Name
2. Compassion International
3. Lutheran World Relief: Sustainable Development, Lasting Promise
4. Operation Blessing International: Breaking the Cycle of Suffering
5. Advancing Native Missions: Learn, Connect, Engage
6. Children’s Hunger Fund: Gospel-Centered Mercy Ministry
7. The Salvation Army: Doing the Most Good
8. Catholic Relief Services: Faith, Action, Results
9. Lifeline Christian Mission: Restoring Hope Among the Nations
10. Food For The Poor: Saving Lives, Transforming Communities, Renewing Hope
The Top 10 Most Amazing Christian Charities - Theology Degrees

__________

Taz,

Give some thought to joining us.
John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son that whoever
believes on Him shall not perish but have Eternal Life.
{1} believe and get Eternal Life
{2} refuse to believe and perish

JAG

PS
In all systems "all is well that ends well" and on Christianity all ends very well.

"And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling
place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be
his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. He will
wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning
or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
Revelation 21:3-4

Best.


JAG

``

"Perfect" humans erred. They gave in to temptation and sin.

Does the Genesis account of creation say that the world was perfect? (And I'm assuming by world, you mean the planet, an assumption that just adds to the confusion.) Was the Garden of Eden even perfect? A garden where an adversary lived and was able to peddle his fruit?

Personally, I say just let Taz prattle. He's asking an age-old question of traditional teachings, and isn't going to find an answer there, anyway.

""Perfect" humans erred. They gave in to temptation and sin.

Does the Genesis account of creation say that the world was perfect?
(And I'm assuming by world, you mean the planet, an assumption
that just adds to the confusion.) Was the Garden of Eden even
perfect? A garden where an adversary lived and was able to peddle
his fruit?

Personally, I say just let Taz prattle. He's asking an age-old question
of traditional teachings, and isn't going to find an answer there,
anyway."___Norwegen

There is no point in arguing over the definition of a word {perfect}.
If you don't like "perfect" you can pick another word. The point is
that on Biblical Christianity, there was a Fall into sin. God made
man un-fallen --- can we use the word "un-fallen"? So what
happened? Here is what happened: Un-fallen man fell into
sin and introduced the hideous dangerous Sin Principle
which brought pain in childbearing, disease, and death.

None of this would have happened if mankind had
not Fallen into sin. If you eliminate The Fall then
you eliminate Sin and if you eliminate Sin you
eliminate the need for a Savior and then
we have eliminated the New Testament and
eliminated Christendom and reduced it to
nothing more than some decent moral
instructions.

Best.

JAG

``

Because man fell, he subjected himself to labor pains, disease, and death. And he still suffers those maladies, correct?

Yes, obviously he still suffers those maladies.

Yes he still suffers from those maladies -- thus Saint Jude's Hospital that
treats children with cancer --- just one example among many, another is
Samaritan's Purse whose motto is "Helping In Jesus' Name", they are
a huge Christian Charity Organization that helps alleviate the suffering
in the world caused by the Sin Principle. I expect you agree with all
this.

JAG

``

Yes, I believe man experiences these kinds of maladies now, just like he did after he fell. You and I agree.

I also believe labor pains, death, and disease occurred in the Garden.

"Yes, I believe man experiences these kinds of maladies now, just like he did after he fell. You and I agree.

I also believe labor pains, death, and disease occurred in the Garden."__Norwegen

Amen to all that.

JAG

``

If man experienced death and other such natural maladies in the garden, and he experienced those same maladies after expulsion, then how did he fall?

 

[fncceo]

He doesn't make it so that people forget to put cheese on cheese burgers

Actually, G-d prohibits us from putting cheese on our burgers.

Exodus (23:19 and 34:26) and once in Deuteronomy (14:21)

 

[Taz]

Because man fell, he subjected himself to labor pains, disease, and death. And he still suffers those maladies, correct?

Yes, obviously he still suffers those maladies.

Man didn't fall, Adam did.

Um, the context is the Bible here, Sparky, which says, "For as in Adam all die."

That was two thousand years ago, of course.

To then blame everything bad that god does on man is a total cop-out, man.

Different time, different place. The context of man's fall is two thousand years plus.

All f humanity didn't fall, just Adam. He doesn't speak for me. Like you say, that was ... well... never.

By man, I mean Adam. I don't mean the people of Nod or anyone else from whom Israel did not proceed.

So Adam falls and god blames everything thereafter on us? That doesn't even make any sense.

When you read a biography of Abraham Lincoln, do you think you're reading a biography that includes you?

Try to keep up, eh. I didn't "us." I said Israel. Now go away; I was having a discussion with JAG.

So Adam falls and god blames everything afterwards on Israel? I'm just trying to figure out the real story.

The best place to start, then, is the beginning. Wouldn't you say?

Who do you think Adam was, and what do you think he fell from?

Adam was most likely the first alien-made human. Before that we were an ape-like species for millions of years.

"Weren't Adam & Eve booted from the Garden for having hetero sex?"__Taz

"So if you use your god-given free will, god won't be happy unless you get his
son to save you. Isn't that kind of like the firemen who lights fires to be a hero?"__Taz

I want you to know that I know that you are merely trying to "jerk my chain" or
"rattle my cage" --- but that's alright because it gives me an opportunity to
call your attention to some Bible verses which is one of the things I do.

"For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their
life for me will find it. What good will it be for someone to gain the
whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange
for their soul?"___the Lord Jesus Matthew 16:25-26

____________


“Lord,” Martha said to Jesus, “if you had been here, my brother
would not have died. But I know that even now God will give
you whatever you ask.”

Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.”

Martha answered, “I know he will rise again in the resurrection
at the last day.”

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one
who believes in me will live, even though they die; and
whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you
believe this?”

“Yes, Lord,” she replied, “I believe that you are the Messiah,
the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”
John chapter 11

JAG

``

So Jesus is into re-incarnation. Did they copy that from the older Eastern religions?

And what's the deal about quoting a book to answer every question? God can only be found in a book?

Chain yanking, well ok, a bit maybe... But I'm always curious to exchange with believers who are convinced that an invisible superbeing exists, and then when I dig a little deeper, their beliefs are always resting on a house of cards, if that. Like you, you quote a book to find god. Seems kind of lame, shouldn't we be able to find god in a real way?

 

[JAG]

JAG Writes:
I LOVE science. True science. My view is that God LOVES
true science too, for example Math , , ,

My view is that Math originated in the nature of God who
is the Original Mathematician --- just as all the other
disciplines also originated in the nature of God.

God Is The , , ,
Original Mathematician
Original Physicist
Original Cosmologist
Original Inventor
Original Artist
Original Scientist
Original Oceanographer
Original Philosopher
Original Epistemologist
Original Empiricist
Original Poet
Original Writer
Original Lover {wanting the best for others}
Original Chooser { Volition }
Original Economist
Original Emotion-ist {the full range of All Good Emotions}
Original Planner
Original Creator
Original Designer
Original Technologist
Original Educator
Original Everything Good , , ,

, , and we humans participate in all that up there since we are
made in the image of God , , ,

, , and that above is why human beings, made in the image of God,
have been able to build the modern world and will be able to keep making
progress in Science and Technology for ever and ever, even when the
human race makes the transition from Earthly human history to Eternity.

Humans are made in the image of God and God has , ,
~ An Intellect --- and so do we humans
~ Emotions --- and so do we humans
~ Volition {a Will, the ability to choose -- and so do we humans

God's Human Race Project ends victoriously.

Long live science. True science.

JAG


``

Well JAG,

By definition, the universe cannot exist without physical laws which are consistent wherever you go.

And mathematics is the language of science which describes the physical universe.

God not only invented math, at some level some kind of mathematics must describe who and what he is.

God is the perfect, all-encompassing equation.

So why does god make deformed children who suffer constant pain?

Are you an atheist?

I'm agnostic and see no proof either for or against the existence of a god. But leave the door open if anyone comes up with real proof either way. Can't be any fairer than that.

Sure. I'm 99.99% confident that God is real, but I cannot prove it.

But what I'm asking is that if god exists, why does he make, or have in his realm, children who suffer so terribly? What would be its rationale for that?

I don't know.
If God exists, is it your belief that he is "evil" for permitting suffering?

I'm just curious as to why a god would make children suffer horrible pain and deformities.

"I'm just curious as to why a god would make children suffer horrible pain and deformities."___Taz

The Biblical answer is:
God made the world perfect.
God made humans perfect.
There was no sickness, pain, or death.
Mankind chose to sin and therefore the Sin Principle was introduced into the human race.
The Sin Principle brought suffering, pain, and death.
____________

Yet God did not leave humans alone in our suffering and pain.
He sent His Son the Lord Jesus to "fix the problem" with a gradual long term solution of ultimate restoration.
The problem is now fixed through the gradual process of restoring the human race.

You would be much happier of you "joined in" that process as a Christian and
made your contribution as a Christian to make this world a better place.

Here is a list of the top 10 Christian Organizations that make the world a better
place and they work hard to alleviate the suffering in the world as they
follow the example of the Lord Jesus. And these top 10 are only a tiny part of
the HUGE-ENORMOUS efforts of worldwide Christendom to make the world a
better place by helping ease the world's suffering.

The Top Ten Christian Charities
1. Samaritan’s Purse: Helping in Jesus’ Name
2. Compassion International
3. Lutheran World Relief: Sustainable Development, Lasting Promise
4. Operation Blessing International: Breaking the Cycle of Suffering
5. Advancing Native Missions: Learn, Connect, Engage
6. Children’s Hunger Fund: Gospel-Centered Mercy Ministry
7. The Salvation Army: Doing the Most Good
8. Catholic Relief Services: Faith, Action, Results
9. Lifeline Christian Mission: Restoring Hope Among the Nations
10. Food For The Poor: Saving Lives, Transforming Communities, Renewing Hope
The Top 10 Most Amazing Christian Charities - Theology Degrees

__________

Taz,

Give some thought to joining us.
John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son that whoever
believes on Him shall not perish but have Eternal Life.
{1} believe and get Eternal Life
{2} refuse to believe and perish

JAG

PS
In all systems "all is well that ends well" and on Christianity all ends very well.

"And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling
place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be
his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. He will
wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning
or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
Revelation 21:3-4

Best.


JAG

``

"Perfect" humans erred. They gave in to temptation and sin.

Does the Genesis account of creation say that the world was perfect? (And I'm assuming by world, you mean the planet, an assumption that just adds to the confusion.) Was the Garden of Eden even perfect? A garden where an adversary lived and was able to peddle his fruit?

Personally, I say just let Taz prattle. He's asking an age-old question of traditional teachings, and isn't going to find an answer there, anyway.

""Perfect" humans erred. They gave in to temptation and sin.

Does the Genesis account of creation say that the world was perfect?
(And I'm assuming by world, you mean the planet, an assumption
that just adds to the confusion.) Was the Garden of Eden even
perfect? A garden where an adversary lived and was able to peddle
his fruit?

Personally, I say just let Taz prattle. He's asking an age-old question
of traditional teachings, and isn't going to find an answer there,
anyway."___Norwegen

There is no point in arguing over the definition of a word {perfect}.
If you don't like "perfect" you can pick another word. The point is
that on Biblical Christianity, there was a Fall into sin. God made
man un-fallen --- can we use the word "un-fallen"? So what
happened? Here is what happened: Un-fallen man fell into
sin and introduced the hideous dangerous Sin Principle
which brought pain in childbearing, disease, and death.

None of this would have happened if mankind had
not Fallen into sin. If you eliminate The Fall then
you eliminate Sin and if you eliminate Sin you
eliminate the need for a Savior and then
we have eliminated the New Testament and
eliminated Christendom and reduced it to
nothing more than some decent moral
instructions.

Best.

JAG

``

Because man fell, he subjected himself to labor pains, disease, and death. And he still suffers those maladies, correct?

Yes, obviously he still suffers those maladies.

Yes he still suffers from those maladies -- thus Saint Jude's Hospital that
treats children with cancer --- just one example among many, another is
Samaritan's Purse whose motto is "Helping In Jesus' Name", they are
a huge Christian Charity Organization that helps alleviate the suffering
in the world caused by the Sin Principle. I expect you agree with all
this.

JAG

``

Yes, I believe man experiences these kinds of maladies now, just like he did after he fell. You and I agree.

I also believe labor pains, death, and disease occurred in the Garden.

"Yes, I believe man experiences these kinds of maladies now, just like he did after he fell. You and I agree.

I also believe labor pains, death, and disease occurred in the Garden."__Norwegen

Amen to all that.

JAG

``

If man experienced death and other such natural maladies in the garden, and he experienced those same maladies after expulsion, then how did he fall?

"If man experienced death and other such natural maladies
in the garden, and he experienced those same maladies
after expulsion, then how did he fall?"___Norwegen

Man experienced those maladies in the garden AFTER
the Fall and not BEFORE the Fall.

JAG

 

[JAG]

Because man fell, he subjected himself to labor pains, disease, and death. And he still suffers those maladies, correct?

Yes, obviously he still suffers those maladies.

Man didn't fall, Adam did.

Um, the context is the Bible here, Sparky, which says, "For as in Adam all die."

That was two thousand years ago, of course.

To then blame everything bad that god does on man is a total cop-out, man.

Different time, different place. The context of man's fall is two thousand years plus.

All f humanity didn't fall, just Adam. He doesn't speak for me. Like you say, that was ... well... never.

By man, I mean Adam. I don't mean the people of Nod or anyone else from whom Israel did not proceed.

So Adam falls and god blames everything thereafter on us? That doesn't even make any sense.

When you read a biography of Abraham Lincoln, do you think you're reading a biography that includes you?

Try to keep up, eh. I didn't "us." I said Israel. Now go away; I was having a discussion with JAG.

So Adam falls and god blames everything afterwards on Israel? I'm just trying to figure out the real story.

The best place to start, then, is the beginning. Wouldn't you say?

Who do you think Adam was, and what do you think he fell from?

Adam was most likely the first alien-made human. Before that we were an ape-like species for millions of years.

"Weren't Adam & Eve booted from the Garden for having hetero sex?"__Taz

"So if you use your god-given free will, god won't be happy unless you get his
son to save you. Isn't that kind of like the firemen who lights fires to be a hero?"__Taz

I want you to know that I know that you are merely trying to "jerk my chain" or
"rattle my cage" --- but that's alright because it gives me an opportunity to
call your attention to some Bible verses which is one of the things I do.

"For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their
life for me will find it. What good will it be for someone to gain the
whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange
for their soul?"___the Lord Jesus Matthew 16:25-26

____________


“Lord,” Martha said to Jesus, “if you had been here, my brother
would not have died. But I know that even now God will give
you whatever you ask.”

Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.”

Martha answered, “I know he will rise again in the resurrection
at the last day.”

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one
who believes in me will live, even though they die; and
whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you
believe this?”

“Yes, Lord,” she replied, “I believe that you are the Messiah,
the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”
John chapter 11

JAG

``

So Jesus is into re-incarnation. Did they copy that from the older Eastern religions?

And what's the deal about quoting a book to answer every question? God can only be found in a book?

Chain yanking, well ok, a bit maybe... But I'm always curious to exchange with believers who are convinced that an invisible superbeing exists, and then when I dig a little deeper, their beliefs are always resting on a house of cards, if that. Like you, you quote a book to find god. Seems kind of lame, shouldn't we be able to find god in a real way?

"So Jesus is into re-incarnation. Did they copy that from
the older Eastern religions?

And what's the deal about quoting a book to answer
every question? God can only be found in a book?

Chain yanking, well ok, a bit maybe... But I'm always
curious to exchange with believers who are convinced
that an invisible superbeing exists, and then when I
dig a little deeper, their beliefs are always resting
on a house of cards, if that. Like you, you quote a
book to find god. Seems kind of lame, shouldn't
we be able to find god in a real way?"__Taz

No to your reincarnation point.

Regarding your "book" point:

" , , , while evildoers and impostors will go from bad to worse,
deceiving and being deceived. But as for you, continue in
what you have learned and have become convinced of,
because you know those from whom you learned it,
and how from infancy you have known the Holy
Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for
salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All
Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for
teaching, rebuking, correcting and training
in righteousness, so that the servant of
God may be thoroughly equipped for
every good work. "___2 Timothy 3:13-17

Note the particulars:
{1} Timothy knew the Holy Scriptures from infancy.

{2} The Holy Scriptures are able to make one wise so they
can be saved.

{3} The Holy Scriptures tell us about salvation through the
Lord Jesus.

{4} All Scripture is God-breathed {this means God-inspired}

{5} The Holy Scriptures enable one to be thoroughly equipped
for every good work

So?

So the one and only way you will ever come to know the truth
and come to know the Person of God is through reading His
book the Holy Bible.

The mockery and ridicule of a book as the means of coming to
know and believe in God nothing but a lame excuse for one
using their Free Will to make a choice -- a choice NOT to
believe in God so they can de facto, remain their own god
and live like they want to live and ignore the God that created
them.

By the way, all men know there is a God that created them and
the Universe.

Just because some men say they lack belief in the existence of God
does not mean they actually DO lack belief in the existence of God.

The truth is they DO have knowledge of God.

Romans 1:18 says that some humans "suppress the truth" about
the knowledge of God.

Romans 1:19-20 says , , ,
"since what may be known about God is plain to them, because
God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world
God's invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature-have
been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made,
so that people are without excuse."

Note the particulars in Romans 1:19-20

{1) There is information that can be known about God.

{2} This information is plain to men.

{3} God Himself has made it plain to them.

{4} It has been plain to them since the creation of the world.

{5} God's eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen.

{6} All this in understood from what God created.

{7} Therefore men are without excuse {for not believing in God.}

JAG

``